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Horrifically low FPS since early August. - help?

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#1 Ratchet

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 11:32 PM

I'm really sorry if this issue has been posted before but I can't seem to find anyone with this issue per se.

So throughout the July tests and BWE3 I had a reasonably good time with the game, performance wasn't spectacular but I'm not one to complain if things are playable, which the game certainly was.

So as a bit of background I'm running a desktop PC on windows 7 x64 with 4gb RAM, 1TB hard disc with a core i5 from late 2010 and an nvidia GTX460. its not the king of systems but I've got Guild Wars 2 installed beside the likes of Battlefield 3, Skyrim and Borderlands to name a few (all of which run fine at high settings, above 40 fps).

Since early this month however, Guild Wars 2 is chugging along at an unbearable 2 FPS Yes, you read that correctly. Unless I'm staring at a wall I cant do anything without the game screeching to a halt.

I've tried installing the latest drivers, I've tried deleting the settings file as recommended on the official forums. nothing is doing it for me. I've notice while playing that my GPU is practically being ignored at around 14% load on average. Can anyone offer some insight into this? the game releases in 3 days so I'm starting to worry...

#2 Ghost Dog

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 01:14 AM

A frame drop that bad I recommend reinstalling the entire client.

#3 Oliveboy

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 01:49 AM

I had the same experience, till today. I think it was just that specific stress test because I had no lag whatsoever in the latest stress test. Yes I was also getting around 11fps and it was unbearable. Today though 40 fps with very minor dips at high populated areas.

#4 Gwyddor

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 02:27 AM

I have a very similar setup and had that issue when I upgraded to the latest official nvidia drivers, 301.42.  I installed the beta 305.53 drivers  and that issue went away for me.  If you have not tried the beta drivers, I would wait a until head start until installing them since a better official driver is to be out 'soon'.

#5 Velicia

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 08:02 AM

I have roughly the same problem, although I didn't play it in BWE's my rig is a little better with a GTX 480 and 8g of ram and my fps is shocking.
I'm currently running on 304.79 drivers and even with everything on low in a high population area my FPS is still at ~7.

Tested with the 305 dev drivers and I did get an increase, but nothing spectacular.

Again like you my GPU was hardly touched while my CPU was being maxxed out 90% of the time (which I'm guessing is causing the extremely low fps).

Would a refresh of the GW2 client, make a big difference?

BTW, I had to completely remove the Nvidia drivers and then do a fresh install to 304.79 to even get my fps stable.

Edited by Velicia, 22 August 2012 - 08:20 AM.


#6 Ratchet

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:41 PM

I'm currently running the latest beta drivers, 304.79 just like you, which is what the official support thread suggested. If anything, though, that made it worse.

Since the game is a hearty 15GBs in size at this point I'm fairly hesitant to re-download the game entirely.

I can pretty much recall the test when things started getting terrible. It would have been first or second the stress test after the 3rd Beta Weekend. I recall a lot of model popping in metrica province (ground disappearing for seconds at a time, enemies popping in and out) which, over like 30 minutes of playing, turned into really rough frame-rates. Eventually I logged out in frustration, and it's been more or less the same ever since.

So we've had success playing with driver versions? I might give that a go, though the problem arose before I switched. Previously I had the beta drivers from september last year (developed for battlefield 3...ver 285.38 maybe?). Hoping Arenanet comes out with their own before release...

EDIT: Apparently the newest driver is closer than we think. Lord Sojar just leaked details on an up-coming 305.58 beta driver which is available online, though not directly on the nvidia driver downloads page. the link can be found in the original thread containing the post below:

View PostLord Sojar, on 13 August 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

This driver is mainly for Kepler regarding GW2.  It will boost certain Fermi based card performance (read:  GTX 560 Ti and 570 the most of the bunch)

The GTX 670 and 680 will run properly and boost properly using the new driver, and their performance will be more in equilibrium.  

Basically, you Fermi users are looking at a healthy 5-45% performance boost, but not necessarily on minimum fps only (so the overall impact might not be quite as significant as perhaps you're hoping).  You Kepler users are looking at a more sizable 20-70% performance boost, but that boost will generally be in the area of minimum fps, not maximum, so your averages should improve well.  

As for 8000/9000 and GT200 series owners?  You're looking at a very minor bump, approx 3-10% in most situations.  Unfortunately, the unified driver tweaks don't carry as well to the much older architectures.  

However, it might be time to lay down a few bucks for a new GTX 650 or GTX 660 (Ti or otherwise).  That would probably be a dramatic upgrade if you're still rocking a GTX 285 or below.

As for specific fixes...  

All I can say is, most of those are focused on optimizing and tweaking internal features to match up with GW2's engine features, which will smooth out performance even more, especially with more options enabled (super-sampling, FXAA, shadow settings, etc)

One specific fix that I can mention is nVidia implementing an override to use their own FXAA3 technology instead of the built in engine's, which is superior not just in image quality, but in performance and is better optimized for nVidia's architecture.

Edited by Ratchet, 22 August 2012 - 12:48 PM.


#7 Aaren

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:45 PM

Quite sure that the low frames are caused by bad optimization, hopefully because it's a beta build or something. I've a decent computer (i5 2500k at 3.5 Ghz with no turbo and a 7970 at standard clocks since betas hate overclock) and I probably got an average below 60, maybe 50-ish, but it went down to low 30s in huge fights with many players.

Cheers!

#8 Thoril

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:48 PM

All of you nvidia GTX users should really get the 295.73 drivers. A friend of mine who works in a professional rig building company (and knows a lot about what he's talking about) says they're the most stable drivers until the new set comes out of beta. I'm using them and don't have a problem at all. Whereas I kept getting BSoD's from using the beta drivers.

I know it might not work for every single user, but it works for most. It's worth a try right?

64 bit: http://www.nvidia.co...hql-driver.html
32 bit: http://www.nvidia.co...hql-driver.html

edit: fixed typos and fails.

Edited by Thoril, 22 August 2012 - 12:48 PM.


#9 Ratchet

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 05:53 AM

How is this still happening? I'm going crazy over here. Newest drivers, clean install. 2FPS and 12% GPU load? I'm stumped...


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#10 Killhoven

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 09:54 PM

Your problem is that your video card does not switch to power mode from power saving mode when application is launced. Check GPUZ, it should show your PCI-E is working on x1 when PC is without laod, for example: pci-e 3.0 x16 @ x1 1.1

Now if you launch a game or use "?" in GPUZ, your graphic acceleration should switch to x16 mode, in our sample: pci-e 3.0 x16 @ x16 1.1 If it doesant, you face a huge performance issue.

It is related to PC BIOS. In my case, the solution was easy - I just changed CPU frequenzy +1 in BIOS and the problem was solved. FPS in GW2 changed from ~15 to 80 (7850). If this is not the case for you, please check here.

#11 Kaltern

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 10:33 PM

View PostKillhoven, on 28 August 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

Your problem is that your video card does not switch to power mode from power saving mode when application is launced. Check GPUZ, it should show your PCI-E is working on x1 when PC is without laod, for example: pci-e 3.0 x16 @ x1 1.1

Now if you launch a game or use "?" in GPUZ, your graphic acceleration should switch to x16 mode, in our sample: pci-e 3.0 x16 @ x16 1.1 If it doesant, you face a huge performance issue.

It is related to PC BIOS. In my case, the solution was easy - I just changed CPU frequenzy +1 in BIOS and the problem was solved. FPS in GW2 changed from ~15 to 80 (7850). If this is not the case for you, please check here.

You keep posting this in multiple threads, and you are assuming that everyone will have that issue.

Apart from the fact it only affects some mobo's, it wouldn't cause the same issues people are having (including me).  I definitely don't have the pcie bug, and I have the same problems.

Please don't go around posting what you think is the definitive answer when it most likely isn't.

#12 Ratchet

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 01:47 PM

View PostKaltern, on 28 August 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

You keep posting this in multiple threads, and you are assuming that everyone will have that issue.

Apart from the fact it only affects some mobo's, it wouldn't cause the same issues people are having (including me).  I definitely don't have the pcie bug, and I have the same problems.

Please don't go around posting what you think is the definitive answer when it most likely isn't.

Tried this, of course...it didn't work. I was really hopeful as well because i actually didnt have x16 showing up in GPU-Z but no luck. I'm really at my wits end here. I've tried everything.

#13 Velicia

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 02:26 PM

What is your CPU load like?

#14 Ratchet

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 10:12 AM

CPU load is incredibly high, as you can see in the screen-shot above. 90-100% constantly.

When the GPU is working everything is normal and the CPU load drops back but this is mostly in the first 5 seconds of play when things are balancing out. Effectively, my GPU is for the most part absent leaving everything to the CPU.

#15 Velicia

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 10:30 AM

What are your temperatures like while playing?

Could be your CPU is getting to hot and throttling back its processing?

#16 Etta

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 11:31 AM

Are you using dual monitors btw? Sounds like the GPU is stuck in 2D mode.

#17 bargaw

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 11:51 AM

It's the problem with power saving options on GPU, GPU stays in idle mode when GW2 is playing. I have same problem, when playing my CPU usage is 100%, while GPU usage is less than 10%.

try using this workaround and please post results:
http://forums.steamp...76#post26276976

#18 Ratchet

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 11:41 PM

View PostVelicia, on 31 August 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

What are your temperatures like while playing?

Could be your CPU is getting to hot and throttling back its processing?


I'm running a single monitor setup in 1080p, The GPU will remain cool as a cucumber at 40°C because its not doing anything while the CPU gets hotter from all the hard work. Keep in mind this happens almost immediately after I start playing, too quick for the stress of the game to be the cause of any throttling. As in the card starts at 40°C and stays there. I cant say the same for my poor CPU...

View Postbargaw, on 31 August 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

It's the problem with power saving options on GPU, GPU stays in idle mode when GW2 is playing. I have same problem, when playing my CPU usage is 100%, while GPU usage is less than 10%.

try using this workaround and please post results:
http://forums.steamp...76#post26276976

I'll give that guide a try.

___

Hmm that doesnt seem to be much help. The only applicable sections related to just setting the video card to having strict preferences while running GW2 exclusively. I doubt it was meant to fix the fact that the cards resources aren't being used. The other stuff is more closely linked to Whatever game they were trying to get going on steam and with a laptop that has both integrated and discrete graphics.I dont particularly have that problem.

You are correct, the card is in a power saving state while the game is running but I'm fairly certain that it's not the cards fault or the drivers. They kick in when I'm running a benchmarking program like Kombustor and I get full performance from the card with little issue, also Guild Wars 1 runs just fine. Steady 60 FPS. What's more is that I've tried using an overclocker to force my card to run out of power saving mode and into high  performance permanently and I got no immediate result so I ditched it to avoid doing any damage.

Thanks though, it was a good a shot as any.

Edited by Ratchet, 02 September 2012 - 12:12 AM.


#19 Velicia

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 07:24 AM

So what temperature does your CPU get to?
Could be its getting so it is throttling back your processing power, which would mean less fps in game.

#20 Ratchet

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 03:02 PM

View PostVelicia, on 02 September 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:

So what temperature does your CPU get to?
Could be its getting so it is throttling back your processing power, which would mean less fps in game.

After an initial shock of 80°C on an idle desktop, i shut off my computer, pulled out my CPU fan, gave it a good clean just in case, plugged it back in and tried again. This time I'm getting some more reasonable results. CPU idles on desktop at 40. When I run GW2 I'm still getting 90°C+ from my CPU at 100% load while my GPU does nothing even before I load up Lions Arch...right off the bat 90°C. When I close the game things steady themselves back to 40.

Does that help?

Edited by Ratchet, 02 September 2012 - 03:33 PM.


#21 Velicia

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 07:52 AM

I had similar problems with my i5, 100% load, high temps (90+) while my gfx was taking no strain.

After doing allot of research I decided to redo my heat paste on the CPU and heat sink.
While taking apart my motherboard and heat sink, I discovered that that retention arm holding my heat sink onto my CPU has a broken arm, and such it wasn't transferring the heat out.

One way to test if your heat sink is working is to take the side of your case off, run guild wars 2, and VERY carefully touch the heat sink. If your reporting 90+ temps while running GW, it should be hot... if it inst, the heat inst being transferred from your CPU correctly.

I guess my suggestion at the moment would be to:
Clean out any useless software
Run CCleaner to clean your registry
Make sure all your drivers are up to date (GFX, OS and any MOBO drivers)
Clean your case and heat sink
Buy some heat paste and reapply your heat sink. (Arctic Silver 5 plus cleaners is nice)

#22 Ratchet

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 02:58 PM

View PostVelicia, on 03 September 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

I had similar problems with my i5, 100% load, high temps (90+) while my gfx was taking no strain.

After doing allot of research I decided to redo my heat paste on the CPU and heat sink.
While taking apart my motherboard and heat sink, I discovered that that retention arm holding my heat sink onto my CPU has a broken arm, and such it wasn't transferring the heat out.

One way to test if your heat sink is working is to take the side of your case off, run guild wars 2, and VERY carefully touch the heat sink. If your reporting 90+ temps while running GW, it should be hot... if it inst, the heat inst being transferred from your CPU correctly.

I guess my suggestion at the moment would be to:
Clean out any useless software
Run CCleaner to clean your registry
Make sure all your drivers are up to date (GFX, OS and any MOBO drivers)
Clean your case and heat sink
Buy some heat paste and reapply your heat sink. (Arctic Silver 5 plus cleaners is nice)

I'm dumbfounded...

Just like magic, I took the side of my case off and went to test out the temperature of the heat sink with my hand while running Guild Wars 2. Suddenly, GPU kicks in and I'm playing at 50 FPS, no problems whatsoever. Of course, my system still gives me CPU readings way up into the 90's celcius when i play but I have a feeling you might be right about heat being an issue.

I just want to note though, that the heat sink felt cool to the touch. even after having run the game for a few minutes.

Did that solve your problem? Just reapplying thermal paste and clearing out your registry + drivers? I'm feeling pretty confident that paste + dust might be a good direction for me. If not, there was a small download before I played the game, perhaps Arenanet fixed my issue on the software side? lol.

I'll report back after seeing what i can do to maximise temperature regulation. thanks for the troubleshooting guys.

#23 Minalt

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 03:31 PM

Wow okay cool now I need to get home to test this out. I have almost the same problem as op but not as low as 2 FPS. Hopefully this will help me.

#24 Velicia

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 06:29 PM

The heat was defiantly the problem for me, I cant confirm as I'm struggling to find a spare retention arm for my heat sink.

But with carefully applying pressure on my heatsink/CPU while have GW2 running, my temperature drop by 20*C almost instantly and continued to drop. This in turn meant my CPU wasn't being throttled back by the high temp and my FPS went up.

When you took the side off your case you increased your air flow, which will reduce the ambient temperature, which in turn will lower your CPU temp, which in turn means your CPU will be able to pass commands to your GPU/audio processes faster, which in turn should ramp up your FPS :)

Give your PC a good clean out (of dust and grim) you should see that much (or more) improvement from taking the side off.

You say your heat sink is cool after running GW2 for a while, there are two causes to this:
1) The heat isnt being transfered to your heat sink properly
2) Your temperature diode on the motherboard is screwed

My monies on number 1, with readings of 90 your heat sink should be hot to the touch (very hot), the fact it inst means the heat is being blocked from transferring out of the CPU.
Get yourself some of this:http://www.amazon.co...46697240&sr=1-2
If you didn't build your computer, do a bit of research into how to take your cooler off (And if its the stock cooler or an after market one).

After removing removing the necessary parts and cleaning the old heat paste off check that the 4 pins holding in the fan/heat sink in are even. If they are not this will impact the heat transfer something amazingly, as the heat sink wont sit on the CPU evenly. This then causes air to be between the heat sink and CPU (and air doesn't conduct heat very well at all!).

While you have your heat sink off give that a good clean too, then follow the instructions found on the Arctic Silver's site and you should be good to go!

If your still getting high temps after that with your case side on. See if you can fit more case fans, else switch to a newer case with more air flow/fan slots.

Edited by Velicia, 03 September 2012 - 06:39 PM.


#25 Ratchet

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 02:32 AM

View PostVelicia, on 03 September 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

The heat was defiantly the problem for me, I cant confirm as I'm struggling to find a spare retention arm for my heat sink.

But with carefully applying pressure on my heatsink/CPU while have GW2 running, my temperature drop by 20*C almost instantly and continued to drop. This in turn meant my CPU wasn't being throttled back by the high temp and my FPS went up.

When you took the side off your case you increased your air flow, which will reduce the ambient temperature, which in turn will lower your CPU temp, which in turn means your CPU will be able to pass commands to your GPU/audio processes faster, which in turn should ramp up your FPS :)

Give your PC a good clean out (of dust and grim) you should see that much (or more) improvement from taking the side off.

...

If your still getting high temps after that with your case side on. See if you can fit more case fans, else switch to a newer case with more air flow/fan slots.

Thanks again, though get this:

Two nights ago I cleaned out my CPU fan and heat sink. That night I tried GW2 and still managed to clock really high temperatures even though the heat sink felt cool to the touch, however the game was running pretty well as the GPU kicked in and got going. Then, again, last night I removed the CPU fan and checked the heat sink just in case I had left some dust behind in the sink (i wasn't that thorough). Turned out the sink was fine so I re-attached the sink and fan and gave GW2 another go. Again, good results but the CPU temps remained really high.

Today however, I decided I'd put the game through its paces to see if i could get a better idea of how well the system was performing and how consistent the temps were (left the side panel off)...

No joke here: 50FPS solid with maxed out settings at 1080p. 20FPS+ with fraps recording over the top. Initially the cores were running hot as before but I checked back maybe 15 minutes in and every 10 minutes after that only to find that the CPU had stabilised to 50°C!?

What is this I don't even. How does a CPU go from 90° in the first 5 minutes down to 50° over time and with greater load? I haven't re-applied paste or cleaned my registry. Is there an explanation for that? I mean as long as it keeps this up, I'm cheering. Part of me wants to attribute it to the CPU being ventilated, the other part can't believe such a difference with literally no changes to my system. Thank again, see if you can work that one out.

#26 Velicia

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 07:44 AM

The CPU will be under the most strain when you initially load up the game and then when your in a heavily populated area.
Maybe in the last few patches they have optimized the client to better work with CPU/GPU.

I'd still be dubious about your heat sink and CPU, even at 50c the heat sink should still be hot.
Download a program called prime95, and put your CPU through the tests, this should give you a good indication of the CPU temp and performance under max strain.


With those results you can then evaluate what you want to do in regards to those high temp spikes.

Edited by Velicia, 04 September 2012 - 07:44 AM.






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