78 replies to this topic

[Tank N SpankEM]

Gets better every test IMO, but I still feel like the 3 bottom classes could use some re-working (although I haven't played Thief extensively I'm basing it on sPvP).

Best

Warrior
Guardian
Elementalist
Thief
Ranger
Engineer
Necromancer
Mesmer

Needs Work

[Shock_Treatment]

Well the Elementalist got pretty dumped on...

I'd say they are still decent, but not top three.

Engi needs to come up a bit too.
Also the Mesmer.

my 2 cents

[Jokerx7]

Less Work

Warrior
Mesmer
Thief
Engineer
Elementalist
Ranger
Guardian
Necromancer

Needs Work

Strongest to weakest:
Strong

Guardian (They may suck at ranged combat, but so long as they are close or in groups, you are dead. xD Unless you have a guardian.)
Thief (Hardest prof to play, but if you play it properly, very rewarding)
Mesmer (Bad for solo, but awesome in groups)
Necromancer (They need work, since they lack of variety)
Warrior (Easiest to play, and they can pull big numbers when they attack, but that doesn't make them the strongest)
Elementalist (They got nerfed very hard)
Ranger (I had a few builds, and they were nerfed D=)
Engineer (I dunno about this one, since I never learned to play him properly)

Weak

Edited by Jokerx7, 23 August 2012 - 12:18 AM.

[fizzlefinger]

tier1: warrior, engineer, elementalist... other then some minor numbers tweaking they are working great
tier2: guardian, ranger... guardian needs something that doesnt suck in ranged combat and some of rangers weapon mechanics feel weird.
tier3: thief, mesmer... thief stealing is a horrible class mechanism, clones are useless
tier4: necromancers... they really lack diversity compared to other classes

[Matsy]

Warrior, engineer, elementalist, ranger - pretty much good to go for launch
Guardian, Thief, Mesmer - Guardian still needs a ranged option and theif and mesmer need a complete profession mechanic overhaul
Necro's - they can only do one thing.....which isn't exactly very good...

[Nephele]

Professions, not classes.

There have been too many changes and not enough game time for me to comment on balance as of the most recent stress tests, but as of BWE3 I think the strongest professions overall are Warrior, Elementalist, and Ranger. Guardian is strong in group situations, the rest have been kinda meh for me.

[Alberel]

Matsy, on 22 August 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

Warrior, engineer, elementalist, ranger - pretty much good to go for launch
Guardian, Thief, Mesmer - Guardian still needs a ranged option and theif and mesmer need a complete profession mechanic overhaul
Necro's - they can only do one thing.....which isn't exactly very good...

I agree with this for all except the elementalist. They're either far too squishy or far too weak at the moment, one or the other needs to improve.

[Tzu Qui Jinn]

Best

Elementalist
Necromancer
Ranger
Warrior (adrenal skills could use some more KA POW! UMPH! to them)
Engineer (needs a melee option like Hammer and Mace)
Guardian (secondary skills require shorter cool downs)
Mesmer (Clones need to go back to BWE1 damage, useless clones are useless)
Thief (drop steal and replace with 4 shadow step skills, make steal a utility skill, rework the dual skill concept)

worst

[DJSkittles1]

Obviously none of you have been rolling Eles or Mesmers recently and are just placing them in the usual places they have been for that last few months. Eles have received some insane nerfs and although they are still versatile, they are now  more similar to what the thief used to be in that; they can do alot of different things, but they can't do any one thing well. Not to mention they are tied for squishiest class and their damage output is nothing special. Although im not too worried because at least the class works and all that is needed is either a larger health pool, different armor class, or give us our ****in damage back. As for Mesmers, I was very impressed with how quickly Arena net listened and fixed what everyone new was wrong. They were always relatively strong in PvP but with a broken class mechanic. The mechanic is still broken, but it is certainly alot better (even debatable if it hasn't been fixed all the way). Now they are viable in PVE, and have become much stronger in PVP, bordering on OP. Some of you may say thats crazy, but they have changed it so that clones don't overwrite phantasms anymore, huge buff. Also, they have made it so, anytime a Mesmer spawns a clone, they drop the target lock that previously stayed on them when spawning clones. This is pretty much an automatic interrupt if used correctly and can cause many burst moves to miss and go on full cool down. If your a pvp player and don't understand the implications of this, you will shortly.

[Abdjapyrovski]

Best

Warrior
Engineer
Guardian
Ranger
Elementalist
Necromancer
Thief
Mesmer

Needs work

Mesmer just feels... wrong, so there goes my main...

[Tzu Qui Jinn]

Abdjapyrovski, on 23 August 2012 - 01:18 AM, said:

Mesmer just feels... wrong, so there goes my main...

I've come to the same conclusion as you have, in BWE1 they were fun. Now... unfun..

[ofekgo]

Best
Guardian


Elementalist
Thief
Warrior
Ranger
Engineer
Necromancer
Mesmer

Needs Work

[Kimhyuna]

Best/Needs less work

Warrior - The perfect class who is perfect at everything. Pure perfection.
Guardian - Despite some changes, still a wonderful profession to play with.


Engineer - The profession that has made the biggest leap from needing work to diverse.
Theif - The last few stress tests have made the thief better than they used to be.
Ranger - Longbow nerf lol

Elementalist
Mesmer    - LOST OF IDENTITY -
Necromancer

Craptastic/Needs work

Dont see how people are rating Ele so highly when there is no benefits, so to speak, of having crap health and crap defence. Elementalists were pretty well and decent at the start of Beta testing, but the constant degredation of their power has been .. depressing to say the least. The same can be said about Necro's, who got nerfed all the way to hell. Something really needs to be done with the Necro. And the mesmer? Ill still be maining it because of its potential, but something just does not feel right.

An elementalist can go full on power in the hope to keep up output damage on the level of say, a Warrior, but while the warrior still has incredible survivability an health ... the same cannot be said about the elementalist. Is it really worth nerfing my already questionable peak damage, requiring much high skill level than I and many others possess, just to increase my health pool by a few thousands? The elementalist has nothing going for it except versitility. It is essentially an incredibly underwhelming jack-of-all trades.

The last 3 classes have all lost their identeties imo, but while the Necro and Mesmer should see positive changes, the elementalist is probebly going straight to hell.

Edited by Kimhyuna, 23 August 2012 - 01:50 AM.

[Freelancer604]

The sound was totally screwed up for surround sound headphones. Im away from home and dont have my speaker system with me, so my headphones are all iv got. It definately needs work.. i hope they fix it.

[Kuju]

Warrior
Elementalist
Guardian
Engineer
Ranger
Necromancer
Thief/Mesmer

I don't think the disparity is as bad as it was anymore, though. Any of these classes in the hands of a good player can seem pretty powerful. I just think Thief needs a bit of a rethink for steal (ranged doesn't want to shadowstep?), targeting a Mesmer should put a target on all his/her clones, especially the clones that come thereafter (the phantam change was a decent one, though), and Necromancer traits could use a little more love to give a bit more variation (though, that has also gotten better).

[abdielol]

You're already ranking the classes and telling which classes need extensive work by playing these 4 hour stress tests? Interesting.

[Colin Johanson]

Sandwichmancer = Unbalanced, still needs a lot of work before release.

[TheMikerwave]

Tzu Qui Jinn, on 22 August 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

Best

Elementalist
Necromancer
Ranger
Warrior (adrenal skills could use some more KA POW! UMPH! to them)
Engineer (needs a melee option like Hammer and Mace)
Guardian (secondary skills require shorter cool downs)
Mesmer (Clones need to go back to BWE1 damage, useless clones are useless)
Thief (drop steal and replace with 4 shadow step skills, make steal a utility skill, rework the dual skill concept)

worst

Engineer's have the tool kit and you skill bar changes to all melee options with wrenchs and crowbars, which does some nice damage

[Geikamir]

Colin Johanson, on 23 August 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

Sandwichmancer = Unbalanced, still needs a lot of work before release.

I found the leaked icon for it.

[Tzu Qui Jinn]

TheMikerwave, on 23 August 2012 - 03:45 AM, said:

Engineer's have the tool kit and you skill bar changes to all melee options with wrenchs and crowbars, which does some nice damage

It's not the same thing, I'd like to "John Henry" with an Engineer, plus it gives a third class that uses a hammer.

Colin Johanson, on 23 August 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

Sandwichmancer = Unbalanced, still needs a lot of work before release.

I hear, they do well with dagger and trident. Also have a good confusion AoE spell called "Peanut Butter and Jelly time." Although, "Fries" as a utility skill could use a trait to provide more than 3.

Edited by Tzu Qui Jinn, 23 August 2012 - 04:01 AM.

[Xodiak]

I have no love for the Mesmer at all. Now, my experience is PvE only up to level.. (13ish?) i think..so take that as you will. I did unlock all weapon skills, and do a lot of Dynamic Events and regular Heart stuff. They just have no good damage, and when I got attacked..I got low REAL quick, without a lot of escapes/get out of jail free card skills.
I had a terrible experience with my clones/phantasms.. and whenever I tried to detonate them.. they took too long to get to the target.. and then did poor damage.
I had hardly any good experiences with that profession.. and had much better luck with every other profession-all things considered.

[darkblue]

People should understand that not loving a class mechanism does not mean the class needs a rework ...

Right now, I firmly believe that most classes only need animation and bug fixes ... at least that is my experience but I haven't played enough necro lately to be sure about what they need.

[Vulkus]

Please keep thinking the mesmer is terrible.   I love it!

Kuju, on 23 August 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

Warrior
Elementalist
Guardian
Engineer
Ranger
Necromancer
Thief/Mesmer

I don't think the disparity is as bad as it was anymore, though. Any of these classes in the hands of a good player can seem pretty powerful. I just think Thief needs a bit of a rethink for steal (ranged doesn't want to shadowstep?), targeting a Mesmer should put a target on all his/her clones, especially the clones that come thereafter (the phantam change was a decent one, though), and Necromancer traits could use a little more love to give a bit more variation (though, that has also gotten better).

No.. Just no.  The clones/phantasms are the key to mesmer success.  Putting an easy-mode target for you ex-wow players is a bad idea.  Use call target like all skilled players do, and learn to target the actual mesmer.   I'm not trying to be mean but that is a terrible idea unless you want to nerf the class.

Xodiak, on 23 August 2012 - 04:04 AM, said:

I have no love for the Mesmer at all. Now, my experience is PvE only up to level.. (13ish?) i think..so take that as you will. I did unlock all weapon skills, and do a lot of Dynamic Events and regular Heart stuff. They just have no good damage, and when I got attacked..I got low REAL quick, without a lot of escapes/get out of jail free card skills.
I had a terrible experience with my clones/phantasms.. and whenever I tried to detonate them.. they took too long to get to the target.. and then did poor damage.
I had hardly any good experiences with that profession.. and had much better luck with every other profession-all things considered.

Sorry all these responses at once.  The clones aren't supposed to do a lot of damage.  They are supposed to distract from the actual mesmer so he can lay the damage down.  Trust me it works.  If anything, they just need a little more hit points to last through another hit or two.

[Princess Fatora]

Guardian
(...)
Elementalist
Warrior
Engineer
Thief
Ranger
Mesmer
Necromancer

Pretty easily. Eles are in nowhere near as bad a shape as some people want, they just got put in line more. The only professions that really need work are necromancer (lacks identity and likely is only used atm due to retaliation countering) and guardian (retaliation needs to be fixed).

[Kuju]

Vulkus, on 23 August 2012 - 05:51 AM, said:

Please keep thinking the mesmer is terrible.   I love it!



No.. Just no.  The clones/phantasms are the key to mesmer success.  Putting an easy-mode target for you ex-wow players is a bad idea.  Use call target like all skilled players do, and learn to target the actual mesmer.   I'm not trying to be mean but that is a terrible idea unless you want to nerf the class.



Sorry all these responses at once.  The clones aren't supposed to do a lot of damage.  They are supposed to distract from the actual mesmer so he can lay the damage down.  Trust me it works.  If anything, they just need a little more hit points to last through another hit or two.

Maybe I didn't come across clear enough; right now for Mesmer you can simply put a target on him/her and it's easy mode to just call target even when new clones come out. Thus, if the target goes on ALL the clones too you can't just simply target the Mesmer with a click of a button. Not everyone is just looking for the easy out, but wanting to make the class mechanic more worth it (easy on the assumptions maybe?).

Edited by Kuju, 23 August 2012 - 06:43 AM.

[Vulkus]

Kuju, on 23 August 2012 - 06:42 AM, said:

Maybe I didn't come across clear enough; right now for Mesmer you can simply put a target on him/her and it's easy mode to just call target even when new clones come out. Thus, if the target goes on ALL the clones too you can't just simply target the Mesmer with a click of a button. Not everyone is just looking for the easy out, but wanting to make the class mechanic more worth it (easy on the assumptions maybe?).

Ahh my mistake!  That could work too. . Sorry if it sounded terrible but I'm having great success with my clones.  I wouldn't mind something more deceptive like that.

[Dinh]

See, now.
Mesmers at the bottom of the list, and that honestly makes me smile.
If they get buffed even more, I cannot WAIT for the tears.
(Also, just a note, "clones not doing a lot of damage" also makes me laugh. I've got upwards of 5k with my Illusions. Just need to know which ones to use in which spec. I mean, we have utilities specifically tailored to using clones to trick people (i.e. stealthing and spawning a clone))

I give you, a short video of some stuff I was doing in sPvP
I go straight for the treb, notice it's already pretty damaged, and proceed to destroy it while an Engineer is beating the hell out of me. Not only do I survive but down a Ranger as well. The build used in this video is extremely squishy compared to how high Mesmers can go in survivability. If you notice, 19k HP and I have little to no defence. Near 50% crit, though.



But, to stay on topic

Worst

-Necro
-Thief
-Ranger/Ele/Engi/Mesmer
-Guardian/Warrior

Best

Edited by Dinh, 23 August 2012 - 07:28 AM.

[AndrewSX]

Warrior (can do too many things, and too well. And still has best hp+armor combo)



Guardian, Engi (balanced right)
Ranger,Ele (overnerfed during betas, and still some things that needs to be buffed didn't changed)
Thief (slowly improving, but initiative needs a more in depth look imo)
Mesmer, Necro (first is still on unfinished state, period. Second would be fine...except the fact that you can play 2 builds right now, and be effective.)

[chuckles79]

All IMHO and based upon the total game, not just one format: (finished to needs more work) [not counting need for future skill balance]

Three way Tie for #1

Elementalist: Seems finished.  All game mechanics are there and is a very solid class with 4 attunements

Ranger: Fits the bill as being skilled in all things, but master of none.  Solid since BWE1

Warrior: Since adding regen to banners this week, there is little more they could do to this class.

The Rest:

Necromancer:  Great conditions, and offense.  The only complaint is that the spammable #1 slot skills don't feel very spammy.  I feel like any kind of offensive action needs to be planned carefully.

Mesmer:  The only class I haven't spent any time on.  I haven't seen many in PvE but they are most dangerous foe in an open field battle in WvW.  Judging by skills and traits; they feel finished.

Engineer:  Has improved leaps and bounds from it's pitiful intro in BWE1.  Playing beside many in BWE3, I never felt like they were not pulling their weight and adding to the fight.  The utility based profession, however, will never make this a popular profession.

Guardian:  Like it's most direct forebear, the GW1 Paragon, the Developers are having a heck of a time finding a place for this class.  The difficulty in balancing a heavy armor support class proves to be the most daunting task for ANet's usually spot on synaptic processes.  We appreciate  that they are trying to avoid the Paladin-archetype; but the see-sawing between support and DPS is showing that they aren't sure where it should be.
As it stands, the only people who are happy with the state of this profession are SPvP players who DON'T play the Guardian.


As for everything else, GJ ANet and we're all stoked at T-minus 39 hr (or 36 depending on how lucky we get)

[Keaghan]

Colin Johanson, on 23 August 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

Sandwichmancer = Unbalanced, still needs a lot of work before release.

On that note, I think Mesmer is wonderful, and it has improved. I espicially love what you did with the Focus #4 Skills, it reallys puts it together with the Phantasm Beserker, and is great for WvW, props for that, really awesome addition. It was really fun seeing a huge zerg to get thrashed around by a gravitational wall. You also made Mantra's more powerful over all with longer cool-downs, but I wonder if you will leave it as is, I have feeling that you guys have something better in store.


---

To the rest, regarding Mesmer, I have been playing it since ending of Beta 2 and all the stress tests, it has improved, and it is powerful, I have no problem downing all the classes in The Mists practice without even using a Healing ability just like everyone else. I just wish they started with a sword, and not a scepter, that way people would have an easier time picking it up right off the bat in pve. Mesmer also has a slightly harder learning curve then most classes, as in, I took me longer to be good with the mesmer then my warrior, which I got used to instantly.

Hell, even now I'm still not using my shatters at the most effective moment.

Edit: To the other classes, I can't comment on them since I haven't played them much, but the ones I have played and have seen played extensively, I can say that they are all very balanced next to each other. [Ranger/Mesmer/Warrior].

Edited by Keaghan, 23 August 2012 - 03:59 PM.