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Game mechanics, confused ones and commonplace mistakes.


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#31 Greibach

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 04:30 PM

I'm not sure if this is something that should/would be added to the OP, but it does seem to relate.  On leveling time- Many people seem to be fixating on Izzy's statement that "...if we expect you to level up every few hours...", and then extrapolating that into saying that it means it will take several (say 2-3) hours to level up, so therefor 2-3 * 80 = 160-240 hours to reach max level.  It seems to me that his statement is probably including non-combat activities in that several hours, like exploring, hanging out, travel times, etc. and not hardcore combat time.  

He even said a few sentences earlier that "If you’re a hardcore player, why shouldn’t you be able to blast through the game with skill and speed, trying to experience every last bit of content".  Basically, we hardly know anything about the leveling time required, and people have been blowing that one phrase up into an exact metric, when it seems to me that we really just don't know.  It just seems to be panic inducing to assume that it might take 240 hours of straight leveling to get to max level.

#32 Own Age Myname

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:54 PM

Nice work, you actually have sources which is really nice.

#33 Gmr Leon

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:02 PM

Lyssa said:

''Originally, Anet had proposed a single NPC ally companion system for GW2, but this has since been cut.'' You could put a link to this page on the word companion so that it becomes clear you're talking about the companion system in that top paragraph.

Also, on your link for 'sidekick' its not entirely clear where the mention of sidekicks is. The people looking at this sticky are likely the people who dont want to go through information like that, so maybe the wikipage would be more helpful?

True. Since the wiki was first brought up here, I've been considering whether or not to replace some of the links I have to it, instead. That way they get an even more concise explanation, and a springboard to further information on the subject via the references and sources. My only concern is the pages being taken down eventually (albeit that extends to all of the linked pages) or being defaced by some random wiki user.

Greibach said:

Basically, we hardly know anything about the leveling time required, and people have been blowing that one phrase up into an exact metric, when it seems to me that we really just don't know.  It just seems to be panic inducing to assume that it might take 240 hours of straight leveling to get to max level.

Should I take from this that I may want to add a sentence regarding the unknown amount of time it will take to level, and whether or not it will be the same throughout, or quicker at the earlier levels?

Own Age Myname said:

Nice work, you actually have sources which is really nice.

With the much appreciated help of the community, though, of course. :)

#34 Skyy High

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:08 PM

Thank you for this, Gmr.

#35 Greibach

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:13 PM

Quote

Should I take from this that I may want to add a sentence regarding the unknown amount of time it will take to level, and whether or not it will be the same throughout, or quicker at the earlier levels?

Yeah, probably.  Its basically just that we don't really know how long it will take to level if that is all you are doing, and there is a lot of frantic "This might take forever to get to max level" when we really only have extremely vague information.  We have been told that the time to level up will be roughly linear as opposed to a strong curve like normal, but that is pretty much it.  Fixating on one sentence and extrapolating just seems like what I would classify as a misconception.  Also, this thread is a great idea in general, there really is a lot of information to sift through, and its good to clear up things that people may only have caught the tail end of.

#36 Gmr Leon

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:22 PM

Aye, I've seen that quite a bit. Always number crunching once they hear a word that they think can be translated to a number, or numbers themselves.

Added a sentence on the matter to the end of the Leveling section.

#37 Arghore

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 12:09 AM

It would be nice if you could include a discription of zoning/portals and such near the persistance/instanced explination, ill try and give what idd like to read:

Guildwars 2 will make use of maps for each significant area in the game (sometimes refered to as zones) for example: a zone/map for Divinity Reach City and a zone/map for the Divinity Coast explorable. Where these zones/maps were instanced in GuildWars Original they will be persistant in GuildWars 2. To get from one zone/map to the other there will mostlikely be a 'portal' (not to be confused with an asuran portal device) this is mainly a visual indication that you leave one zone/map and will go into the other. From what is understood sofar, 'zoning' from one zone/map to the next will NOT include a loading screen if you computer is decent enough to handle the load, ak. you will not notice you 'zoned' other then entering a new area ... if, on the other hand, you use long distance 'zoning', ak. through the use of a waypoint on a different zone/map or by the use of an Asuran Portal Device you WILL experience a loading screen (time depending on your computer system).

And it be nice if you could squeeze in: Persistance = All players on the same server load on the same map;  somewhere

#38 Gmr Leon

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 12:18 AM

Arghore, I actually considered that, but I don't feel like we have sufficient information for me to add it to a section or make it its own section without it containing heavy amounts of assumptions or speculation.

#39 Arghore

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 01:35 AM

Well the only thing that isnt entirely known is the loading screen between zones, i tried to describe it as best as i could, since it will mostlikely also depend on your system ... but its your thread, and i understand you rather like a clear answer on this then a 'from what we understood sofar' ... no biggy, you get to add it when we do know ;) :D ... i just mention it because it has been brought up multiple times allready and i suspect it will be in the future ..

#40 Gmr Leon

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 03:51 AM

Yeah, I certainly agree. I'll probably eventually add a section on the differences between a zone and an instanced area. I suspect zones will be "seamless" in the sense that they haven't a portal going into each other, just the map loading up in the background, whereas instances will have a portal leading into them, much like GW1 and other games.

#41 Stéphane Lo Presti

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 08:48 AM

Interesting summary. Here are a few tiny comments for your convenience:

[quote name='Gmr Leon'][URL="http://pc.ign.com/articles/110/1102939p1.html"]Achievements[/URL] are functionally similar to titles in the original Guild Wars[/quote]

Not functionally as some GW1 titles grant an in-game advantage, whereas GW2 achievements don't have [URL="http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/110/1102939p1.html"]"any direct gameplay rewards from achievements"[/URL].

[quote]However, these carry a fee for use[/quote]

[U]small[/U] fee ([URL="http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/"]source[/URL]) ^^

[quote]In the briefest way I can think to put it: Replacement Quest System. However, this does not properly explain it

The last sentence is correct and I would avoid using the word "quest" :).

#42 Gmr Leon

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:32 PM

Stéphane Lo Presti said:

Not functionally as some GW1 titles grant an in-game advantage, whereas GW2 achievements don't have "any direct gameplay rewards from achievements".

Ah yes, true, true.

Stéphane Lo Presti said:

small fee (source) ^^

Heh. Considering the reactions I saw at the mention of even a small fee for it, I didn't feel it incredibly significant. However, your emphasis of it must mean it really is quite small.

Stéphane Lo Presti said:

"In the briefest way I can think to put it: Replacement Quest System. However, this does not properly explain it"

The last sentence is correct and I would avoid using the word "quest" :).

True. It really isn't anything like a quest system, in any sense; I'm guessing the reason you're mentioning this is so that players won't get confused when they actually do get a quest, thinking it was rubbish what you guys said of the dynamic event system, when in fact you never meant to convey it was replacing quests as a whole.

Basically, events will deal with the here and now, they're just that, immediate and fluctuating events going on in the world. Quests, however, will deal with specific tasks that aren't necessarily related to what's going on in the world, and deal more with things like having you scout out an area to report the situation, or help guide a NPC to some ruins to examine, or the old Fedex quest where we get an item and take it to someone else.

I know you probably can't say much on this, but am I getting the right vibe from you on it?

If you can't answer, thank you nevertheless for the response, Stéphane. :)

#43 Sage Of The Wise

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 11:08 PM

Quote

Heh. Considering the reactions I saw at the mention of even a small fee for it, I didn't feel it incredibly significant. However, your emphasis of it must mean it really is quite small.
Yeah, hopefully its like the small fee they charge when you make a new festival hat.

#44 Clobimon

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 04:38 AM

Maybe you wanna add in a section on what we know concerning Worlds, World transfers, etc. as it relates to and does not relate to GW districts and other games' server systems.  Just a thought.  I realize we don't know much of the specifics but I'm pretty certain we know that we won't be picking a World like a server that we're stuck on until six months after release when they would begin offering paid one-time server transfers.

#45 Supreme

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 06:29 PM

Stéphane Lo Presti said:


small fee (source) ^^

If it's so small... why have a fee at all?

#46 Amannelle

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 06:40 PM

Supreme said:

If it's so small... why have a fee at all?

to deter people from trying to go everywhere, constantly abusing waypoint system. :)

#47 Gmr Leon

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 09:11 AM

Just a heads-up, but my updates may be a bit slower as the year proceeds (that whole life thing and all) and the reason I haven't modified it to reflect Stéphane's comments yet is because I was kind of hoping I might see a repeat response to a few of my little questions. I didn't expect it of course, as I know how busy they are, and yet at the same time that patience yields many treasures, nevertheless...

#48 Supreme

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 05:35 PM

Amannelle said:

to deter people from trying to go everywhere, constantly abusing waypoint system. :)

I don't see how that is a big deal though. Unless it takes a lot of resources to move a player from point a to point b (which I don't think it does as GW1 does this all the time). What does "going everywhere" do for people? How would they abuse it? Just constantly warping? Oh joy. I bet that takes a butt-load of resources to move a player from A-B </sarcasm>.

If it was very expensive, it would make sense to me. Forcing people to travel the roads or find events along the way and just go out exploring. I don't mind the small fee, but if it's so insignificant, why have it at all?

#49 Viktor

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 06:04 PM

Supreme said:

I don't mind the small fee, but if it's so insignificant, why have it at all?

Because most people won't mind paying it.  It's a money sink, and one that nobody is going to complain about - because the fee is so small.  Money sinks act as a method of controlling in-game inflation, which stabilizes the in-game economy.  

It also means you can't zergrush mobs of enemies you wouldn't otherwise stand a chance against (by resurrecting yourself with the waypoint system) without costing yourself something.  Waypoint density seems like it's going to be fairly thick (10-20 waypoints per zone according to the Activities Q&A), so it may very well be possible for you to do it - but not without costing yourself some gold in the process thanks to the fee.

#50 Lyssa

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 11:14 PM

Really, lets not turn this into another thread discussing map travel. There are already more than enough!

#51 Muan

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 05:20 AM

Gmr Leon said:

Sidekicking and Companions.
Unlike GW2's predecessor, Guild Wars, there will no longer be any NPC allies that players can bring into their party to replace another player, meaning no heroes and no henchmen and no companions. Originally, Anet had proposed a single NPC ally companion system for GW2, but this has since been cut. There may still be moments where you fight alongside NPCs, however, but you will not be able to take them around with you to assist in fights around the world.

I don't know if someone has already noted this but that might not be entirely true. Some passages indicate there will be henchies for hire as well as "characters who follow you around" and help out just because they like you. Not much is clear about these NPC allies but it is probably something akin to what we have seen in the War in Kryta and with Vael in EotN.

#52 MisterB

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 11:15 PM

It might be useful to include a section on what we know about the Hall of Monuments, or at least clear up some misconceptions. For example, include Regina's post about how it is accessed, stress that nothing is transferred directly and rewards are instead cosmetic, updates are possible after release of GW2, and nothing gained will be more powerful than what you may otherwise obtain.

Some sources:

http://www.guildwars...=hall monuments
Regina's post about linking accounts and HoM access

http://wiki.guildwar..._Wars_2_Unlocks
Developer update stating you may continue to update HoM after release of GW2. This information directly contradicts Jeff Strain's earlier statement here, which has caused some confusion in the past.

I don't have direct links for the other information in my first paragraph, but the article on wiki contains that information.

#53 Fario

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 01:39 AM

Is there any confirmation that the side-kick system still up-scales you outside of WvW. If yes does it occur in dungeons or just events?

#54 Gmr Leon

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 02:16 AM

Muan said:

I don't know if someone has already noted this but that might not be entirely true. Some passages indicate there will be henchies for hire as well as "characters who follow you around" and help out just because they like you. Not much is clear about these NPC allies but it is probably something akin to what we have seen in the War in Kryta and with Vael in EotN.

True...However, these would not be those that join you in a party, from what little we can tell, so my wording would still be appropriate, I think. Should we get more information on the subject, I'll change it, but for the time being, my wording should fit those situations.

Fario said:

Is there any confirmation that the side-kick system still up-scales you outside of WvW. If yes does it occur in dungeons or just events?

Er..I believe so, if I understand your phrasing properly. It seems that it may occur passively throughout the world, but only when with a higher level player in areas fit for him, albeit not for you. That is to say, if you are with a high level player in an area that is much, much tougher for you alone, it will make you a bit more competent to be with that player so you may play together.

MisterB said:

It might be useful to include a section on what we know about the Hall of Monuments, or at least clear up some misconceptions.

True, I hadn't even thought of that.

Edit: Section on the Hall of Monuments added.

#55 Fario

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 12:29 PM

Nice bulk of information regarding guilds

"The word "Guild" in the Guild Wars franchise has always suggested the central role guilds would play in the game. As you have stated, Guild Wars 2 will in many ways be improvements to what you wished you could have done in GW1. In this regard, could you tell us what lessons you have learned from GW1? How will guild-related features be different from GW1?

Curtis Johnson: When we made GW1 we knew that guilds and community were essential parts of the online role play experience, so we made it easy to start a guild very early in the game and for players to keep those relationships going by including all their characters in the same guilds.

For Guild Wars 2 we’re keeping that same focus on early connections. We’re making it easy to keep all your characters in one guild, but for GW2 we decided that more friends means more fun, so it will be possible to have different characters in different guilds.  We also wanted to give guilds more common purpose, so we’re including guild achievements, and placement in the world including guilds holding keeps in World vs World. We also want to make it easier to stay connected with your guild mates, so we’re introducing features like a guild calendar to make meeting and coordinating across time zones easier, and participating in guild chat from any web browser so you can stay in touch even when you can’t play."


http://www.incgamers...per-interview/2

#56 Ursan

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 05:55 PM

thank you for this, It answered some of the questions I had about the game :)

#57 Short

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 07:56 PM

Let's make it a requirement for new members to read this. :D

#58 Garreth MacLeod

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 02:13 AM

Why does so much of the stuff in the OP remind me of LotRO? A lot of that stuff sounds very similar to things in LotRO. Is this common throughout other MMO's? (have only played GW and LotRO). Even the armor system is the same as LotRO, or at least at this point in time "looks" the same.

#59 twisties34

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 06:21 AM

[quote name='Gmr Leon']

[U]Sidekicking and Companions.[/U]
Unlike GW2's predecessor, Guild Wars, there will no longer be any NPC allies that players can bring into their party to replace another player, meaning no heroes and no henchmen and no companions. Originally, Anet had proposed a single NPC ally companion system for GW2, but this has since been cut. There may still be moments where you fight alongside NPCs, however, but you will not be able to take them around with you to assist in fights around the world.

This is not to be confused with the [URL="http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/game-faq/#nine"]sidekick system[/URL] that GW2 will have, though. Through sidekicking, low level players will be able to accompany high level players without posing too much of a hindrance and getting to experience the tougher areas with friends. Similarly, high level players will be able to partake in low level content without one-hit killing enemies and ruining the fun for newer players, as mentioned [URL="http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=168091&postcount=109"]here[/url].

QUOTE]

err ... so we are going to be forced to find other players to do stuff, exactly the same as in Aion & WoW ... horrible idea. I only get limited time to play and there's no way I'm going to spend it waiting around in town to form a party. I'd rather not play at all if this is the case.

#60 Gmr Leon

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 10:04 PM

Twisties34 said:

err ... so we are going to be forced to find other players to do stuff, exactly the same as in Aion & WoW ... horrible idea. I only get limited time to play and there's no way I'm going to spend it waiting around in town to form a party. I'd rather not play at all if this is the case.

No. Remember, if you played GW, that GW2 is not the same with different packaging. It's a completely new game with only the setting and story tying the two together, alongside some design philosophies.

Each profession is being crafted to be able to stand on its own without a party, so that a player may solo their way through the game. Similarly, the dynamic event system is designed in such a way that you will find yourself working with other players without having to party up with them to complete the task and get a reward. Instead you'll all complete it and everyone you worked with will get access to a reward for helping out.




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