29 replies to this topic

[Yllibas]

I was just wondering, do we ever find out what happened to Livia and the Scepter of Orr at the end of GW:EN?

Also another note. What if Livia and the Scepter had something to do with the awakening of Zhaitan?

What if she or somebody used the Scepter to awaken Zhaitan so that all of the races in Tyria would finally unite together? Sort of like resetting the world by destruction type of thing. If you've seen Batman Begins, sort of the same idea of how The League of Shadows wanted to destroy Gotham, getting rid of all the crime and hate so that the people could rebuild it as a better place. What if the entire thing with Zhaitan is like that?

What do you think happened to Livia and the Scepter?

Edited by Yllibas, 24 August 2012 - 02:20 AM.

[sahirah05]

From the wiki : How Livia used the Scepter and what ultimately happened to it are unknown, but it is known that she wielded its powers for a time.


we don't know anything more.

[Rukioish]

probably in Orr.

[Midnight_Tea]

Yllibas, on 24 August 2012 - 02:14 AM, said:

I was just wondering, do we ever find out what happened to Livia and the Scepter of Orr at the end of GW:EN?

Also another note. What if Livia and the Scepter had something to do with the awakening of Zhaitan?

Given the scene where she acquires the scepter is shown alongside the other ending "bits" including Primordus waking and the Pale Tree beginning to grow, I'd say it's more likely than not.

[Alemoot]

I'm hoping that she used it to become a lich and that we'll find her at some point in GW2. But no, we don't know yet what actually happened. I think it was supposed to be revealed in GW beyond but it seems they didn't get to it (yet?).

[Konig Des Todes]

She does obtain it, however she doesn't keep it. But what she does with it is 100% completely unknown.

Supposedly she found it when she traveled to Arah, but it's not entirely known.

She could have put it back in Arah, or brought it for safe keeping under the Shining Blade, or gave it to Blimm whom she became an assistant of, or she could have found another place to put it.

The possibilities are nearly endless.


Also.... the Scepter of Orr does not make Liches. I do not know why people have such a silly notion when there's no evidence for such, but it's been a thought in players since day 1 practically, as people hope for some sort of "sexy lich" in GW2 (funnily enough, people also got pissed off at the lich costume which gave people said sexy lich... some of which were the same people in both groups, but I digress). If I recall correctly, it was said in Ghosts of Ascalon she was buried beneath Divinity's Reach (as was Blimm), wasn't it?

[Alemoot]

Konig Des Todes, on 24 August 2012 - 02:28 AM, said:

Also.... the Scepter of Orr does not make Liches.

A man can dream though... a man can dream...

[sahirah05]

How could she find the septer in arah if the city was underwater while she lived?

[Konig Des Todes]

She said she was going to travel to Arah. How when it was underwater... perhaps air pockets? Swimming is also always possible...

[Lutinz]

Im pretty sure we dont have any solid lore on what became of the scepter.  I do personally suspect we will see it turn up in GW2 simply because a] it was seen in the cutscene at the end of Eye of the North, b] It and its twin were made to empower mortals against supernatural threats and c] it strikes me as potentially a very potent weapon to use against a monster of Zhaitan's level.

Considering the size and power of the EDs I dont think we will be killing them through conventional means.  I think it will take something special.  My tinfoil hat theory is that the Scepter of Orr is going to be recovered by the Durmond Priory and used to weaken or leave Zhaitan susceptable to harm.

No real basis for this by the way.  Just a hunch/crazy story theory.

Edited by Lutinz, 24 August 2012 - 05:07 AM.

[Konig Des Todes]

Lutinz, it was never said that they were given to protect against supernatural threats... just this:

Quote

Long ago, the Staff of the Mists and the Scepter of Orr were given to the great nations of the world as protection. Predictably, those who wielded their power were corrupted. Terrible horrors were unleashed upon the lands once guarded by their benevolent power.

Here's something interesting to note:

Rytlock has Sohothin.
Eir retrieves Magdaer to give to Logan.
Scepter of Orr is a staff so...What if each member of Destiny's Edge will, at the end, have their own ancient magical weapon? Thus the Scepter of Orr will be given/retrieved by Zojja. Hmm, don't think we know of any mystical daggers or bows though.

[Nostredeus]

Konig Des Todes, on 24 August 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

Lutinz, it was never said that they were given to protect against supernatural threats... just this:



Here's something interesting to note:

Rytlock has Sohothin.
Eir retrieves Magdaer to give to Logan.
Scepter of Orr is a staff so...What if each member of Destiny's Edge will, at the end, have their own ancient magical weapon? Thus the Scepter of Orr will be given/retrieved by Zojja. Hmm, don't think we know of any mystical daggers or bows though.

Claw of Khan Ur [Spelling] ?

And

Bow, hmmmmm, I actually can't think of a bow that would work; maybe Eir could make one out of Jormag's tooth or something.

Edited by Nostrecorax, 24 August 2012 - 06:00 AM.

[yahikodrg]

Nostrecorax, on 24 August 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

Claw of Khan Ur [Spelling] ?

And

Bow, hmmmmm, I actually can't think of a bow that would work; maybe Eir could make one out of Jormag's tooth or something.

If they are able to chip at the tooth or if she gets anything from the ED I'm sure she'll make some arrowheads

[Kinniku]

Konig Des Todes, on 24 August 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

Lutinz, it was never said that they were given to protect against supernatural threats... just this:



Here's something interesting to note:

Rytlock has Sohothin.
Eir retrieves Magdaer to give to Logan.
Scepter of Orr is a staff so...What if each member of Destiny's Edge will, at the end, have their own ancient magical weapon? Thus the Scepter of Orr will be given/retrieved by Zojja. Hmm, don't think we know of any mystical daggers or bows though.

Would zojja be able to wield it though? she is pretty short

[BaconSoda]

Mr. Sparkles can wield it for her. With a name like that, he's all sorts of awesome. In fact, he can probably duel wield it and the Staff of the Mists.

[Thalador]

Konig Des Todes, on 24 August 2012 - 02:28 AM, said:

She does obtain it, however she doesn't keep it. But what she does with it is 100% completely unknown.

Supposedly she found it when she traveled to Arah, but it's not entirely known.

She could have put it back in Arah, or brought it for safe keeping under the Shining Blade, or gave it to Blimm whom she became an assistant of, or she could have found another place to put it.

The possibilities are nearly endless.


Also.... the Scepter of Orr does not make Liches. I do not know why people have such a silly notion when there's no evidence for such, but it's been a thought in players since day 1 practically, as people hope for some sort of "sexy lich" in GW2 (funnily enough, people also got pissed off at the lich costume which gave people said sexy lich... some of which were the same people in both groups, but I digress). If I recall correctly, it was said in Ghosts of Ascalon she was buried beneath Divinity's Reach (as was Blimm), wasn't it?

Two things:

- Livia was never Blimm's assistant. Blimm was her favored counselor instead.

- And most importantly, the Scepter of Orr has power over the immaterial, and souls and spirits are part of that classification. In theory, if Livia had found a way to bind her soul to her body (or some other mumbo-jumbo necromantic immortal-making stuff involving the Sceper), she could in fact become some sort of lich-like being.

[Konig Des Todes]

I thought it was said in Ghosts of Ascalon that Blimm had a necromancer assistant. Named Livia.


@Nostrecorax: The Claw of the Khan-Ur doesn't hold magical power though. It's merely symbollic. Though it is a good though...

And Jormag's tooth does bring an interesting question... if one can merely chip it a dozen time... arrow heads? Edit: I see yahikodrg had the same thoughts.

[dss_live]

Konig Des Todes, on 24 August 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

I thought it was said in Ghosts of Ascalon that Blimm had a necromancer assistant. Named Livia.

Thalador is correct. From the book p23:

"He cleared his throat and began to read aloud: " 'Here lies Blimm, the greatest of the golemancers, favored counselor of Livia, apprentice of Oola, whose brilliance he has surpassed, the finest mind to grace Tyria in his or any other generation-' "

This does bring in a new theory about what might have happened with the Scepter of Orr when Livia had it. The Golem's Eye contoled Bones, maybe Blimm was able to extract some of the energy from the scepter to infuse the gem. Could be why no other asura has been able to create such a powerstone. Ofcourse this hasn't gotten anything to do with where the staff went before or after that

[Thalador]

Normal sized-arrow heads would be no more effective than Eir's Kralky-blood-crystal arrows. Ballista-sized grappling hooks, or better, some big-ass gun cartridges on the other hand...

[Kraag_Deadsoul]

Konig Des Todes, on 24 August 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

I thought it was said in Ghosts of Ascalon that Blimm had a necromancer assistant. Named Livia.


@Nostrecorax: The Claw of the Khan-Ur doesn't hold magical power though. It's merely symbollic. Though it is a good though...

And Jormag's tooth does bring an interesting question... if one can merely chip it a dozen time... arrow heads? Edit: I see yahikodrg had the same thoughts.

The "magic" of the Claw of the Khan-Ur is not some mystical energy contained within it.  It is the fact that whichever Charr wields it is recognized as the supreme leader of their people.  As such, that individual would be able to unite the Legions and all the Charr into a combined army with a singular purpose.  That is the power of the Claw of the Khan-Ur.

[Macha]

I'm probably missing something, but I doubt it, since I've replayed the Ring of Fire missions recently.

What did the Lich do with the Scepter? He was supposed to wield it to be able to command the Titans. So he probably brought it with him at least in the Abaddon's Mouth mission, since I can't remember seeing the Scepter in his hands in Hell's Precipice cinematics.
But that raises the question on how did the Scepter end up in an unknown Tyrian cave, where Livia found it, if it was really supposed to be in the Ring of Fire islands which went kaboom shortly after the Lich's death.
And the Staff of the Mists was destroyed by simply throwing it into the Hallowed Point, so I believe the Scepter of Orr shouldn't be immune to physical means to destroy it.
This reminds me also of how did the Southern Shiverpeaks Bloodstone end up in the depths of yet another cave.

As for Livia... After retrieving the Scepter she most probably used it to bring peace to Kryta, at least initially. After all, it was the main goal she sacrificed herself (and others) for.

Edited by Macha, 24 August 2012 - 01:37 PM.

[AMIX_GW2]

BaconSoda, on 24 August 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

Mr. Sparkles can wield it for her. With a name like that, he's all sorts of awesome. In fact, he can probably duel wield it and the Staff of the Mists.

Mr. Sparkles ... is the greatest character ever..people will sing tales of his travels for generations

all hail Mr. Sparkles

Edited by AMIX_GW2, 24 August 2012 - 01:40 PM.

[Thalador]

Macha, on 24 August 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

I'm probably missing something, but I doubt it, since I've replayed the Ring of Fire missions recently.

What did the Lich do with the Scepter? He was supposed to wield it to be able to command the Titans. So he probably brought it with him at least in the Abaddon's Mouth mission, since I can't remember seeing the Scepter in his hands in Hell's Precipice cinematics.
But that raises the question on how did the Scepter end up in an unknown Tyrian cave, where Livia found it, if it was really supposed to be in the Ring of Fire islands which went kaboom shortly after the Lich's death.
And the Staff of the Mists was destroyed by simply throwing it into the Hallowed Point, so I believe the Scepter of Orr shouldn't be immune to physical means to destroy it.
This reminds me also of how did the Southern Shiverpeaks Bloodstone end up in the depths of yet another cave.

As for Livia... After retrieving the Scepter she most probably used it to bring peace to Kryta, at least initially. After all, it was the main goal she sacrificed herself (and others) for.

Either Glint teleported it away, or the Scepter has a built-in magical mechanism that teleports it to safety (maybe to Arah) in case of destruction threatening it.

Edited by Thalador, 24 August 2012 - 03:08 PM.

[Konig Des Todes]

Kraag_Deadsoul, on 24 August 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

The "magic" of the Claw of the Khan-Ur is not some mystical energy contained within it.  It is the fact that whichever Charr wields it is recognized as the supreme leader of their people.  As such, that individual would be able to unite the Legions and all the Charr into a combined army with a singular purpose.  That is the power of the Claw of the Khan-Ur.

Right, like I said, it's symbolic.

dss_live, on 24 August 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

Thalador is correct. From the book p23:

"He cleared his throat and began to read aloud: " 'Here lies Blimm, the greatest of the golemancers, favored counselor of Livia, apprentice of Oola, whose brilliance he has surpassed, the finest mind to grace Tyria in his or any other generation-' "

This does bring in a new theory about what might have happened with the Scepter of Orr when Livia had it. The Golem's Eye contoled Bones, maybe Blimm was able to extract some of the energy from the scepter to infuse the gem. Could be why no other asura has been able to create such a powerstone. Ofcourse this hasn't gotten anything to do with where the staff went before or after that

I thought it was mentioned by the asura when explaining who's tomb it was though...

[Thalador]

There's no mention of such at all. Only that Blimm spent his late years in the company of human necromancers, and that he was Livia's counselor.

[Aizea]

Macha, on 24 August 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

I'm probably missing something, but I doubt it, since I've replayed the Ring of Fire missions recently.

What did the Lich do with the Scepter? He was supposed to wield it to be able to command the Titans. So he probably brought it with him at least in the Abaddon's Mouth mission, since I can't remember seeing the Scepter in his hands in Hell's Precipice cinematics.
But that raises the question on how did the Scepter end up in an unknown Tyrian cave, where Livia found it, if it was really supposed to be in the Ring of Fire islands which went kaboom shortly after the Lich's death.
And the Staff of the Mists was destroyed by simply throwing it into the Hallowed Point, so I believe the Scepter of Orr shouldn't be immune to physical means to destroy it.
This reminds me also of how did the Southern Shiverpeaks Bloodstone end up in the depths of yet another cave.

As for Livia... After retrieving the Scepter she most probably used it to bring peace to Kryta, at least initially. After all, it was the main goal she sacrificed herself (and others) for.

It's shown that Glint (or some other being, maybe even the staff itself) teleports it away just seconds after your character turns his/her back to flee.

Edited by Aizea, 24 August 2012 - 09:02 PM.

[Macha]

I see.
I'll probably replay Hell's Precipice (there's also the Zaishen quest today!) just to pay attention to this detail.

[draxynnic]

Thalador, on 24 August 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

Either Glint teleported it away, or the Scepter has a built-in magical mechanism that teleports it to safety (maybe to Arah) in case of destruction threatening it.

As for what it actually does - apart from providing more magical power, we actually don't know. Khilbron claimed it gave him power over the undead, but that could just have been a cover to hide that he already had power over them as the Lich Lord. Meanwhile, he believed it gave him power over the titans, but that could easily be that Abaddon told the titans to follow the Lich Lord.

[Konig Des Todes]

There's actually a good amount of evidence to support the Scepter of Orr influencing/controlling spirits - but not undead themselves, mind you.

In Sanctum Cay, for the bonus you have to guide a spirit to a cemetary - he says this:

"I will follow the Scepter."

Furthermore, in Thunderhead Keep, Khilbron creates servants from the fallen Stone Summit and later White Mantle. All said servants are Smoke Phantoms - spirits, effectively. He took direct and immediate control of souls... he didn't invade with his army for a year after the Cataclysm, and there was no evidence of Khilbron being able to do such before having the Scepter of Orr either.

Also, we know that Titans are formed from tormented souls - so controlling them is effectively the same as controlling spirits.

Then there's the actual mechanics of the Scepter of Orr - affecting energy. Since souls can often be used as an energy source, one can theorize that both are in the same category of essence.

[Tregarde]

I'm really hoping that ArenaNet comes out with some more GW1 Beyond content that answers what happened with the Scepter. Livia was one of my favourite Heroes, and that little clip at the end of EotN just left me wondering "what happens?!?!?!?"