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Friends are playing on a full world :(

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#1 joshie0808

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 07:36 AM

Hello,

I took a longer time to install my GW2 client and when I got on the world most of my friends are playing on is already full. I also have another few friends who also want to get onto this world so we can all play together. I know I can guest but we want to play WvW. What can we do to make sure we are all on the same world?

Thank you!

#2 RanceJustice

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 08:29 AM

My understanding is that, at least for 7 calendar days after official release,  World Transfers will be free. So all of you can decide you want to transfer to a specific world and move over there, free of charge.  Note that as far as I recall Worlds are account based for the WvWvW etc...combat, so you can't have one character on one world and one on another - when you transfer all your characters come to a new "home world".    After the 7 days are up, then you will be able to transfer to a new homeworld once per week and it will cost gems to do so depending on the populace of the world (ie costs more to transfer to a High Population World than a Low Population World).

The other option is playing as a "Guest" on another world; you won't be able to WvWvW , but you can still group with others on other worlds and whatnot.  There may be a few other restrictions I forget.

At this point I suggest deciding on where you want to go with your friends and attempting to get a transfer to that world when it isn't "Full".  For now, choose another world with the friends that can't get onto the Full world and then see about a transfer! I would suggest not to do a lot of high end guild investment stuff if you plan to transfer as I don't know the full parameters for transfers and guilds.

Hope this helps!

#3 Aetou

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 08:38 AM

I thought they'd pulled Guesting from Launch? Is it in and working?

#4 Kraag_Deadsoul

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 08:52 AM

Since the "popular" worlds are filling up, you might want to consider discussing with your friends/guild about moving to a low population world.  Eventually, since the "popular" worlds will likely remain full, this will be the only option available for disconnected friends/guilds to regroup and play together on the same server.

Once this realization sets in  with the larger fanbase, there will be a mass exodus and reshuffling as players and guilds try to get into the less-populated worlds before the free transfer period expires.  I would strongly recommend being proactive and beating everyone else to this solution before the less-populated worlds start to fill up, too; putting you right back in the same situation you're facing now.

I realize some servers already have a certain cachet associated with them and it may be a bit of a disappointment to you and your friends to not be associated with your first choice of world.  But going to a less-populated server doesn't have to be a bad thing.  Instead, think of it as being explorers discovering a new world and planting your flag before everybody else does.  What's more is, being a large group of friends or even an entire guild on a low-population world means you may have a greater chance of influencing the character and community of that server since you would be considered one of its "founders".  In a high-population world, you're just one among tens of thousands and won't have as much impact.

Regardless, your choices are shaping up to be the following:

A ) Friends refuse to budge from their current server.  Friends who didn't get onto that server are likely not going to get on later, either.  Now your group of friends/guild is broken up over multiple servers and not everyone is going to get to play WvWvW together.

B ) Have a meeting and decide that everyone will move to a low-population server (the sooner the better) so you can all play together.

Trust me, after the initial rush of being able to brag, "We got onto uber-popular-leet-XYZ server!!!", has worn off, it won't matter anywhere near as much as being able to play together as a group.  That's more important than the bragging rights of which server you're on.

Lastly, if your concern is a low-population server won't have enough people on it to make your WvWvW experience worthwhile, not to worry.  At the rate the servers are filling up, that low-population server you join today or tomorrow is going to be full come launch on Tuesday; you'll have no shortage of people to play with on your server.

Good luck :)

#5 Vire70

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 09:06 AM

I don't understand the server system they have set up. It seems inherently moronic to me, or like a scheme built purely around making money off of people who have little choice otherwise. I mean, ignore the week of free transfers, because after this week that won't be true anymore. At that point, what happens?

Let's say, hypothetically, you meet a friend who also plays GW2. But alas, you're on different servers. If this was ANY other MMO in existence, it wouldn't be a problem; sure, starting a new character is a bit annoying but not nearly as annoying as having to pay $10 (or whatever it is you have to pay) to go to their server; assuming you aren't both in a 'full' server, in which case you both have to transfer to a lower pop server (ie have to pay twice as much effectively) to play together. This was originally solved by character transfers; because you could transfer one character across to play with that particular friend without wholesale abandoning everyone you knew on your own server. But now that option is removed!

It seems like a system that would be fantastic if you have no friends. But already, in pre-release, there are people who can't play with their friends due to this artificial 'full' lock-downs of servers. And you can't just say "Oh, well they can transfer to a low pop server!" because what about your other friends? If your entire guild is in a server it doesn't seem very reasonable to ask 20 other people to transfer with you (and either bring along or leave all of their own friends on that server) just so you can go join with another friend on another server... so what are you left with? Either pay, or don't get to play with your friends.

How is that system anything but pure shit? And how exactly are people not utterly outraged?

#6 Kraag_Deadsoul

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 09:26 AM

View PostVire70, on 25 August 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

I don't understand the server system they have set up. It seems inherently moronic to me, or like a scheme built purely around making money off of people who have little choice otherwise. I mean, ignore the week of free transfers, because after this week that won't be true anymore. At that point, what happens?

Let's say, hypothetically, you meet a friend who also plays GW2. But alas, you're on different servers. If this was ANY other MMO in existence, it wouldn't be a problem; sure, starting a new character is a bit annoying but not nearly as annoying as having to pay $10 (or whatever it is you have to pay) to go to their server; assuming you aren't both in a 'full' server, in which case you both have to transfer to a lower pop server (ie have to pay twice as much effectively) to play together. This was originally solved by character transfers; because you could transfer one character across to play with that particular friend without wholesale abandoning everyone you knew on your own server. But now that option is removed!

It seems like a system that would be fantastic if you have no friends. But already, in pre-release, there are people who can't play with their friends due to this artificial 'full' lock-downs of servers. And you can't just say "Oh, well they can transfer to a low pop server!" because what about your other friends? If your entire guild is in a server it doesn't seem very reasonable to ask 20 other people to transfer with you (and either bring along or leave all of their own friends on that server) just so you can go join with another friend on another server... so what are you left with? Either pay, or don't get to play with your friends.

How is that system anything but pure shit? And how exactly are people not utterly outraged?

One reason behind the server system that have set up is to prevent cheating and poor sportsmanship in WvWvW.  If they had a system where everyone was free to create a new character on another server without any restrictions, then Player A from Server X could create a new character on Server Y.  Player A could then join WvWvW on the side of Server Y and relay information about that world's troop strength, troop movements, battle plans, etc. to his friends back on Server X.  By locking a player to a server, it prevents that kind of abuse (at least for those players who only own a single copy of the game, of course).

The counter-argument may be, "Then let players make new characters on any server they want but restrict them to representing a single server in any 2-week WvWvW round."  Yes, that would work.  However, they've more-or-less accomplished the same result through the guesting system; but without the added overhead of forcing players to create a new character to play on another server with a friend.

Guesting, once implemented, will permit anyone to play with anyone else on any server.  The only restriction will be they can't participate in WvWvW on a non-home server.  Within these parameters, this is about as fair a system as you can get (fair for everyone; the WvWvW players as well as the PvE players).  If there were no WvWvW, then implementing your solution would not only work, but would be the preferred system.  However, due to the presence of WvWvW, there needs to be a means of restricting players to a server to prevent the abuse scenario given above.

#7 Denny Haynes

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 09:32 AM

View PostVire70, on 25 August 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

I don't understand the server system they have set up. It seems inherently moronic to me, or like a scheme built purely around making money off of people who have little choice otherwise. I mean, ignore the week of free transfers, because after this week that won't be true anymore. At that point, what happens?

Let's say, hypothetically, you meet a friend who also plays GW2. But alas, you're on different servers. If this was ANY other MMO in existence, it wouldn't be a problem; sure, starting a new character is a bit annoying but not nearly as annoying as having to pay $10 (or whatever it is you have to pay) to go to their server; assuming you aren't both in a 'full' server, in which case you both have to transfer to a lower pop server (ie have to pay twice as much effectively) to play together. This was originally solved by character transfers; because you could transfer one character across to play with that particular friend without wholesale abandoning everyone you knew on your own server. But now that option is removed!

It seems like a system that would be fantastic if you have no friends. But already, in pre-release, there are people who can't play with their friends due to this artificial 'full' lock-downs of servers. And you can't just say "Oh, well they can transfer to a low pop server!" because what about your other friends? If your entire guild is in a server it doesn't seem very reasonable to ask 20 other people to transfer with you (and either bring along or leave all of their own friends on that server) just so you can go join with another friend on another server... so what are you left with? Either pay, or don't get to play with your friends.

How is that system anything but pure shit? And how exactly are people not utterly outraged?

I'm in total agreement with you on every point. What chance do i stand with playing with my friends and guild. They have 3 day head start and i don't, some of us have commitments where it isn't possible to start the same time as the others. I wanted to go onto Gandara and now i realise that chance has gone, so no Wvwvw for me. I appreciate Anet have to make money but this is taking the piss, this is nothing more than fleecing their community. Seriously you pay more if it's a higher populated site, IT SOULD BE FREE TO MOVE FULL STOP!!!.

#8 Kraag_Deadsoul

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 09:57 AM

View PostDenny Haynes, on 25 August 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

I'm in total agreement with you on every point. What chance do i stand with playing with my friends and guild. They have 3 day head start and i don't, some of us have commitments where it isn't possible to start the same time as the others. I wanted to go onto Gandara and now i realise that chance has gone, so no Wvwvw for me. I appreciate Anet have to make money but this is taking the piss, this is nothing more than fleecing their community. Seriously you pay more if it's a higher populated site, IT SOULD BE FREE TO MOVE FULL STOP!!!.

Given that the following are true:

1) Until the guesting feature is implemented, world tranfers are free.  If the world on which your friends reside is not full, you will be able to transfer to their world at no charge.  The free transfer system is likely to remain in effect for at least 7 days.

2) Even after the free transfer period expires, you will still be able to guest to a friend's server and play in any game mode with them except WvWvW.

3) If you do not transfer over to your friend's server, you are still able to play WvWvW on your server.

Then please explain how there is, "...no Wvwvw for me." ?  You are not prevented from playing WvWvW.  You just won't be able to play WvWvW on the same team as your friends if you don't manage to transfer to their world.  But, since transfers are free for approximately the next week or so, then this isn't really an issue unless the world you are attempting to transfer to is already full.  In which case, then you and your friends have to discuss your options; wait and hope a slot on their world opens up, all of you move to a less-populated world together as a group, or don't choose either of those two options and accept that you won't be able to play WvWvW together.

You don't get to have it all.  If ArenaNet changes the server structure around to accommodate your desire to relocate to any server at any time so that you can play WvWvW with your friends, then that opens the door to abuse inside WvWvW as I detailed above and the inconveniencing of hundreds of thousands of other WvWvW players.  It's not like this is some last-minunte change they imposed.  Their approach to server segregation has been made public and discussed at length for some time now.  Failing to prepare for it in advance and not having a back-up a plan doesn't constitute a problem with the game. It's the result of a lack of planning on the part of anyone who didn't bother to think things through before the game launched.  Something as simple as, "We're going to try to join Server X.  But if that fills up, we all agree to go to Server Y, instead, so we can stay together as a group of friends. (since that's your real motivation, right?)"

Of course, there's also the remote possibility this may have nothing at all to do with playing with friends (since the guesting system already solves that issue) and, instead, is all about wanting to be on the "popular" server.  But that couldn't possibly be the real motivation, now could it?  Naw, that couldn't be it...it's all about just wanting to play with friends, right (even though mechanisms and solutions already exist to permit you to do that)?

#9 Denny Haynes

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 10:06 AM

View PostKraag_Deadsoul, on 25 August 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

Given that the following are true:

1) Until the guesting feature is implemented, world tranfers are free.  If the world on which your friends reside is not full, you will be able to transfer to their world at no charge.  The free transfer system is likely to remain in effect for at least 7 days.

2) Even after the free transfer period expires, you will still be able to guest to a friend's server and play in any game mode with them except WvWvW.

3) If you do not transfer over to your friend's server, you are still able to play WvWvW on your server.

Then please explain how there is, "...no Wvwvw for me." ?  You are not prevented from playing WvWvW.  You just won't be able to play WvWvW on the same team as your friends if you don't manage to transfer to their world.  But, since transfers are free for approximately the next week or so, then this isn't really an issue unless the world you are attempting to transfer to is already full.  In which case, then you and your friends have to discuss your options; wait and hope a slot on their world opens up, all of you move to a less-populated world together as a group, or don't choose either of those two options and accept that you won't be able to play WvWvW together.

You don't get to have it all.  If ArenaNet changes the server structure around to accommodate your desire to relocate to any server at any time so that you can play WvWvW with your friends, then that opens the door to abuse inside WvWvW as I detailed above and the inconveniencing of hundreds of thousands of other WvWvW players.  It's not like this is some last-minunte change they imposed.  Their approach to server segregation has been made public and discussed at length for some time now.  Failing to prepare for it in advance and not having a back-up a plan doesn't constitute a problem with the game. It's the result of a lack of planning on the part of anyone who didn't bother to think things through before the game launched.  Something as simple as, "We're going to try to join Server X.  But if that fills up, we all agree to go to Server Y, instead, so we can stay together as a group of friends. (since that's your real motivation, right?)"

Of course, there's also the remote possibility this may have nothing at all to do with playing with friends (since the guesting system already solves that issue) and, instead, is all about wanting to be on the "popular" server.  But that couldn't possibly be the real motivation, now could it?  Naw, that couldn't be it...it's all about just wanting to play with friends, right (even though mechanisms and solutions already exist to permit you to do that)?

Well that's the thing isn't it, i do wish to play with my friends in WvWvW. Why in the name of sanity would i want to play with somebody else i don't know or who may speak a different language because of no dedicated UK servers. Nope sorry, this is nothing more than making money on Anets part. As for the 7 days server swap, big deal, woopy doo!, not as though your going to get the chance to move to the server your friends are on within that time. The system is totally out of kilter, guilds split up over different servers that want to play WvWvW, what sort of logic is that o.o?.

Edited by Denny Haynes, 25 August 2012 - 10:07 AM.


#10 shanaeri rynale

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 10:13 AM

The best thnig Anet could have done was de-couple WvW and servers. Turn servers into nameless disrtricts so everything is load balanced across the hardware, then have players choose a WvW 'team' to represent with all the limitations we have now. That way people can play with the heck they like, and WvW won't affect it. I realise Anet wanted server pride, but team pride can be just as strong(ask any sports fan) AND you wouldnt have needed to make so many compromises everywhere else

#11 Kraag_Deadsoul

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 10:38 AM

View PostDenny Haynes, on 25 August 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

Well that's the thing isn't it, i do wish to play with my friends in WvWvW. Why in the name of sanity would i want to play with somebody else i don't know or who may speak a different language because of no dedicated UK servers. Nope sorry, this is nothing more than making money on Anets part. As for the 7 days server swap, big deal, woopy doo!, not as though your going to get the chance to move to the server your friends are on within that time. The system is totally out of kilter, guilds split up over different servers that want to play WvWvW, what sort of logic is that o.o?.

This post should properly be titled "I Didn't Get to Join the Server I Wanted".

Seven days is more than ample time to either transfer to your friends' server or for you all to put your heads together and find a less-populated server to join for the sake of playing together.

If the number one issue is that your friendships are of paramount importance to you and to them, then what server you are on wouldn't matter.  Friendship would override server choice.  You would all agree to change servers in a heartbeat for the purpose of being able to stay together as a group.  That option is available to you and to them.

The fact you do not wish to avail yourself of that solution invalidates your own argument that this is all about playing with your friends.  It isn't; it's about not getting to join the Gandara server.  It's grasping at straws and wanting to fault ArenaNet for something that is entirely due to a lack of planning on you and your friends' parts.  If it were about making money, ArenaNet wouldn't permit the free transfer period nor would they implement the free guesting service. There are options available that would solve your problem - for free - if this were really about sticking together with friends.  Since you don't want to use the solution, this isn't about friendship; it's about server prestige (and there are other English-speaking EU servers besides Gandara, by the way).

In that case, good luck and may a free spot open up for you on Gandara before the free transfer period runs out.

View Postshanaeri rynale, on 25 August 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

The best thnig Anet could have done was de-couple WvW and servers. Turn servers into nameless disrtricts so everything is load balanced across the hardware, then have players choose a WvW 'team' to represent with all the limitations we have now. That way people can play with the heck they like, and WvW won't affect it. I realise Anet wanted server pride, but team pride can be just as strong(ask any sports fan) AND you wouldnt have needed to make so many compromises everywhere else

That's an excellent suggestion and would certainly solve the problem.  I wonder if there were some technical limitations which would have prevented the de-coupling.  The other issue would be that players, given an option to choose which WvWvW team to represent, would have naturally gravitated to the winning teams, thus unbalancing WvWvW.  But still, it's certainly worth exploring as a solution which may help resolve some of the current issues.

Edited by Kraag_Deadsoul, 25 August 2012 - 10:39 AM.


#12 Vire70

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 11:10 AM

Well, I confess to not knowing about the guest system when I made my post. That does mediate my concerns considerably. I can understand the restrictions on WvWvW as well, and personally I find it an acceptable loss. I suppose I wouldn't really say I'm pleased with it, but at least I can see why they've gone that route now. The other thing is that servers don't appear to be totally locked population wise. I wanted to get in a server earlier and it was full, and pretty much stayed that way for an hour or more. Then they all suddenly changed to heavy population instead. So either it does fluctuate somehow, they upped the limits, or something.

#13 Danael

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 11:29 AM

About spvp: if I'm on server x and guest on y can I play spvp on y with my friends there? A lot of people say a lot of different this about this and I'm never sure about this.

#14 shanaeri rynale

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 11:39 AM

View PostKraag_Deadsoul, on 25 August 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:



That's an excellent suggestion and would certainly solve the problem.  I wonder if there were some technical limitations which would have prevented the de-coupling.  The other issue would be that players, given an option to choose which WvWvW team to represent, would have naturally gravitated to the winning teams, thus unbalancing WvWvW.  But still, it's certainly worth exploring as a solution which may help resolve some of the current issues.

I wondered about that too, but think that the total number of servers you need are the same and all the mechanics are in place to make it work, I.e ability to transfer a user from hardware stuff A to hardware stuff B, overflow is there to help load balance and we can share databases to make us go across data centres. The unbalancing situation above you outlined can easily be solved by capping WvW teams like now. Also it'll self balance as really popular teams will have longer wait times so people will want to go somewhere else just to get a game.

#15 Denny Haynes

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 12:06 PM

View PostKraag_Deadsoul, on 25 August 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

This post should properly be titled "I Didn't Get to Join the Server I Wanted".



No not at all, please don't strip down the issue to use the basic of statements to win a debate.

So your in a guild, a guild which is split up over numerous servers, how does that benefit WvWvW?. Does this not make WvWvW guilds redundant?. Couldn't care what name server i play on but stagering players as i've said over all the servers makes no sense at all, what sort of game mechanic is that? It's an issue that needs looking into at least, all this smells like is a money making issue after the 7 day grace period.





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