451 replies to this topic

[Gilles VI]

Bryant Again, on 08 December 2012 - 08:14 PM, said:

Many of mentioned bringing back the Zaishen dailies, and I wouldn't mind seeing the same idea apply to GW2: There's a huge world they could keep making me go back to, it's just Cursed Shore now.

That problem lies with you really then.. :/
Nothing forbids you now of playing in other zones. I love to play in mount maelstrom, sparkfly fenn,... on my lvl80 characters.

Asudementio, on 08 December 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

PvE is both harder and easier than i'd like it. At times it feels rather difficult to manage the events and survive,but the gameplay format is made easy in that the penalty for death is minor. If penalties for failure were much greater (like a town being burnt to the ground if we didn't protect it from the centaurs) and it easier to fail events i think PvE would be much more compelling. Oh and more awesome looking items would be nice.

Yes like they told in the manifesto.
If players failed to defend a town, the town would be burned down.

Now if players fail a event, they just miss a merchant which sells worthless junk anyway.

In my opinion they could even have made more events if they went all the way.
For example Beetletun, instead of just "defend Beetletun" and take it back, they could have made it with caravans from those nearby caves, maybe with reinforcements from queensdale/ascalon settlement,....

Now it's always the same Defend/Retake/(Protect while build)

[Bryant Again]

Gilles VI, on 08 December 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

That problem lies with you really then.. :/
Nothing forbids you now of playing in other zones. I love to play in mount maelstrom, sparkfly fenn,... on my lvl80 characters.

True, I could go into the older zones and one shot things myself and enjoy the scenery, but that belittles the point (or perhaps I was misleading...). Cursed Shore gets boring after awhile, and a system/idea like the Zaishen quests would help keep things refreshing and help replayability (or 'endgame' as so many call it )

[Gilles VI]

Bryant Again, on 08 December 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

True, I could go into the older zones and one shot things myself and enjoy the scenery, but that belittles the point (or perhaps I was misleading...). Cursed Shore gets boring after awhile, and a system/idea like the Zaishen quests would help keep things refreshing and help replayability (or 'endgame' as so many call it )

Yea I agree for daily quests of any sorts for instances! I remember how fun it was pugging zaishen missions/dungeons in last months in GW1, when PvE was dead except speedclears.

But for open zones? I don't really see how it could work..
Do events in a certain zone, or get x amount of kills, it's all pretty boring. :/

Edited by Gilles VI, 08 December 2012 - 10:40 PM.

[deitiesforce]

I only like personal story (similar to gw1 mission). Hate doing stupid heart quests in between. They are boring and.... Well stupid. So repetitive.

[Shadow Warrior]

BabyChooChoo, on 08 December 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

I hope you enjoy waiting a long time then. Don't get me wrong, I'm right there with you with those hopes as well, but the reality is those things together would cost a lot of money and time. The AI thing, for example, would be absolutely wonderful, but would require a godlike team of programmers and designers to make it work perfectly in an MMO and I'm not exaggerating when I say godlike lol.

There's a lot of interesting tech and just game design in general coming out Korea these days though and, as odd as it sounds (given the Korean grindfest stigma), methinks they would be the ones to pull it off first.

I'd be willing to believe that sufficient time and funding is more of the issue than talent. We've got some extremely talented programmers and designers in the industry. Unfortunately, its difficult to get the guys who are shelling out the cash to think outside of the box.

Your game's system AI and NPC AI should be a central focus in development. It should go before high production value, which is what most games try to sell themselves on nowadays.

Either way, nothing to worry about for me, because they just announced the sequel to Dark Souls today. That's the best news I've heard all week. Any Dark Souls fans should go check out the announcement trailer.

[DuskWolf]

Shadow Warrior, on 09 December 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

I'd be willing to believe that sufficient time and funding is more of the issue than talent. We've got some extremely talented programmers and designers in the industry. Unfortunately, its difficult to get the guys who are shelling out the cash to think outside of the box.

Bingo.

The fact of the matter is is that the same zerg-laden AI is trotted out time and again because it's believed that we'll be okay with that. I'm not. It's just that it's easy money because people are easily satisfied and they like easy games, instant gratification and all that. GW2, like many MMOs, delivers on that front. You stand in front of a point of interactivity (such as a mob or a node), you push a button, you push a button again, you get a reward. I'm sure there's some kind of fancy term for that.

Maybe I'm an old fart. But standing still and pushing a button in a game doesn't do it for me any more. I'm not a lab rat. I want games that challenge me as a player. So I might be done with MMOs until they get better at that. I know that the technology is there already because there are some proof of concepts out there for that. But no one wants to work that into a massively multiplayer game. For now until MMOs can improve, I might stick with co-op games. GW1 had great AI, so does ME3's MP.

So I think that what's right for me now isn't MMOs. The thing is is that I often like the idea behind them. Large, open worlds, genuinely unique and interesting player races, potential for emergent experiences within that open world, and so on. But the potential of that is never realised. Not even slightly. The combat is stand there and push butan, the world is shallow and lacking in variety, the whole thing just feels like a masive social experiment. I don't feel like I'm having fun. I feel like I'm a rat in a cage, and I'm pushing buttons for treats.

I'm just waiting for the first MMO that isn't a social experiment, that isn't about testing the limits of one's patience through incredibly shallow gameplay and vertical progression. I want an MMO to be as fun as a single or multiplayer game. And I don't see why it shouldn't be. That should be the focus. I think if ArenaNet had spent a tenth of the funds on R&D that they spent on straight up marketing, they'd have a better game. And that's what the focus should be for future MMO developers.

I don't want another game that's push button get pellet. Where the button is your skill, the point of interaction iss the mob, and the pellet is the loot drop. I can almost see the sterile, clinical, and extremely boring systems behind that. Fun may be ephemereal and subjective, but a lot of it actually comes from there being some kind of challenge. But in most MMOs I've played, mobs are just punching bags full of hit points. And the only reason some people find that fun is because hey pellet.

I want someone to hop into GW2, right now, and do a heart quest. And tell me it doesn't feel like that. I guess I don't get the dopamine rush that most people do when PELLET!, so this just doesn't work on me. I think this is the reason that Diablo didn't work on me. But I guess it works on a lot of people. I wish it worked on less of you guys so that they'd need to innovate instead of simply relying on the apparently ubiquitous HEY PELLET response.

sigh

Here's an experiment: If you don't have ME3, go grab it. Play a few rounds of the multiplayer. Was it fun? Now play the same amount of GW2. Was that as fun? If so, why? If not, why?

Edited by DuskWolf, 09 December 2012 - 07:56 AM.

[Robsy128]

DuskWolf, on 09 December 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

GW1 had great AI, so does ME3's MP.

... Rurik says hello.

Joking aside, yeah, I don't think Guild Wars 2 is the game for you - especially when you're constantly comparing Guild Wars 2 - an MMO, to Mass Effect 3 - a shooter RPG. It's like comparing a Ford Mustang to a yacht. Sure, they're both vehicles but there are just so many differences that they can't really be compared.

[Shadow Warrior]

Robsy128, on 09 December 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

... Rurik says hello.

Joking aside, yeah, I don't think Guild Wars 2 is the game for you - especially when you're constantly comparing Guild Wars 2 - an MMO, to Mass Effect 3 - a shooter RPG. It's like comparing a Ford Mustang to a yacht. Sure, they're both vehicles but there are just so many differences that they can't really be compared.

While I do agree that there can come a point where you spend too much time bashing another person's treasure, I don't think that his comparison with games from other genres is invalid. People do that all the time, including professionals within the game industry. It comes down to what, specifically, you are comparing. In the quote you mentioned, he is speaking of the complexity/non-complexity of the AI. Is there any reason why he can't compare the AI from other genres with the AI in Guild Wars 2? What cardinal rule is he breaking here?

[NerfHerder]

The most unfun part of PvE(for me) is the lack of incentive, or loot. If I'm level 80 and going back to finish world completion, I should get level 80 gear every time. Give altoholics reason to keep leveling and finishing world completion. I know I'm not the only one who would prefer to stay in the open world instead of a dungeon. If there were equal incentive out there, the open world would feel more alive.

Next is replayability. DEs should be built on and expanded. Busier and more interconnected. They already have a good pace with adding new events. Add a bunch of DEs every other month or so, mix them up and interweave them, and you'll have a much more vibrant open world.

Also...

Turn up the loot button on champions and bosses again.

Add Guesting. Find a way.

Add Guild Halls.

More Quaggan Less Undead. In fact, next expansion, cleanse Orr, kill Trahearne, get rid of undead, and make Zhaitan a personal story and dungeon only type thing. Make Orr look like it did before it was submerged.

I could go on but thats enough for now.

Edited by NerfHerder, 09 December 2012 - 02:23 PM.

[Robsy128]

Shadow Warrior, on 09 December 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

While I do agree that there can come a point where you spend too much time bashing another person's treasure, I don't think that his comparison with games from other genres is invalid. People do that all the time, including professionals within the game industry. It comes down to what, specifically, you are comparing. In the quote you mentioned, he is speaking of the complexity/non-complexity of the AI. Is there any reason why he can't compare the AI from other genres with the AI in Guild Wars 2? What cardinal rule is he breaking here?

This is true, but I'm fairly certain that AI in MMOs is less advanced than AI in single-player games. I've read that somewhere and it made a lot of sense when I was reading it

[ChrisReitz]

nope its not.

Robsy128, on 09 December 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

... Rurik says hello.

Joking aside, yeah, I don't think Guild Wars 2 is the game for you - especially when you're constantly comparing Guild Wars 2 - an MMO, to Mass Effect 3 - a shooter RPG. It's like comparing a Ford Mustang to a yacht. Sure, they're both vehicles but there are just so many differences that they can't really be compared.

No point he just likes to talk about how bad gw2 is its kinda cute actually.

[Bryant Again]

Gilles VI, on 08 December 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

But for open zones? I don't really see how it could work..
Do events in a certain zone, or get x amount of kills, it's all pretty boring. :/

Precisely why a change of scenery would be a jump, at least, until major replayability additions occur.

[Solstice]

Robsy128, on 09 December 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

... Rurik says hello.

Forget Rurik, GW1’s PvE AI could be easily countered simply by having a player stand at a corner. Obviously that was environment dependent but it was amazing how many environmental corners/curves could be found in the challenging areas where it mattered.

[Dasryn]

ChrisReitz, on 09 December 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

nope its not.

No point he just likes to talk about how bad gw2 is its kinda cute actually.

see Dusk?  this is the reputation you are building on Guru.  you are like a broken record.  we've heard what you have to say.  you failed your mission, you must move on.

[Jump_N_Move]

You keep bashing him like hes a broken record, but you gotta stop and think for a minute. If GW2 was the govt/laws and he was a lobbyist/politician. The only difference is that he lacks funding support. That's how stuff gets done in the world. Someone bitches and bitches and bitches enough till someone thinks the cause is good. They get money to support their cause, the media gets involved and then more people become aware. and maybe luckily a law gets passed with support of said idea.

He stops complaining, his idea will likely never come to fruition unless someone else has the same idea and complains longer.

The real problem is that people like him are the minority. The people who want a challenge, who are bored by everything else being produced, they are all neglected. They aren't the money makers. They don't shell out the money for the cash shop items. Those people just aren't the market. They never have and never will be the target of any AAA or brand-name producer.
There is just isn't an incentive for them in a profit-driven/greed-driven capitalist society. Quality is always sacrificed either in the name of time or profit. Your opinions just don't matter unless you're generating profit or have money to compensate/support them.

That's enough ranting. But everyone needs to be aware of it. I'm tired of the stupid people in this world who are too naive to see that they are being taken advantage of to their face. But that's partly their own fault, so the only option I have is to educate people in hopes they can grow and expand their knowledge. Only then can maybe these trends change. Then again they say ignorance is bliss yea? Also say cash rules everything me! This might be a futile effort in the long run. But his cause is not unimportant.

[fatrodmc]

I for one want to see more content/stories using the original content. Humans vs Charr, Ascalon, the Gods, the Dragons, Dwarves, etc.

That stuff was GREAT. Just keep the stories going.

I don't care about quaggen, asuras, sylvari, skritt...and what the hell is a karka? I don't want to know.

[Dasryn]

Jump_N_Move, on 09 December 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

You keep bashing him like hes a broken record, but you gotta stop and think for a minute. If GW2 was the govt/laws and he was a lobbyist/politician. The only difference is that he lacks funding support. That's how stuff gets done in the world. Someone bitches and bitches and bitches enough till someone thinks the cause is good. They get money to support their cause, the media gets involved and then more people become aware. and maybe luckily a law gets passed with support of said idea.

i dont really care if he wants to lobby ANet, my complaint is this is a website/forum for GW2 enthusiasts, not GW2 complaints and lobbying.  if he and the other minority wants to lobby then they need to be doing it on the official forums in the suggestions threads or submitting constructive feedback to the proper authorities on the subject.

seriously, where are you guys not getting my point?  the problem is: Guru is NOT the place to make these kinds of complaints.  it doesnt serve a purpose, it isnt influencing devs, it isnt changing the game, it isnt doing anything except creating a negative atmosphere on a GW2 enthusiast forum!

ok?  so stop defending guys like him and the rest and tell them to take it up with the ones that can actually do something with his complaints.

prior to launch, Guru was the place to be, it was so positive and everyone really came together.  now, its a cesspool.

[DuskWolf]

Jump_N_Move, on 09 December 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

I'm going to make personal attacks against you now for a while, like most people do when they don't have an argument to make. Okay?

Okay!

Jump_N_Move, on 09 December 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

The real problem is that people like him are the minority.

Considering the mass exodus that's happened with every WoW also-ran lately. I don't agree.

Jump_N_Move, on 09 December 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

They don't shell out the money for the cash shop items.

Spent over two hundred quid on Mass Effect 3 over the past few months. Just sayin'.

Jump_N_Move, on 09 December 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

ArenaNet wasn't an AAA developer when they made Guild Wars 1. They only become an AAA developer when they made Guild Wars 2.

...what? ...huh?

Jump_N_Move, on 09 December 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

I'm going to call you a stupid poo poo doo doo head now, because I don't have an argument and I'm just throwing my toys out of the pram.

Okay!

Jump_N_Move, on 09 December 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

Now I'm going to wax philosophical about how people are somehow being conned by opposing opinions, because they're too weak minded to be able to defend their own.

Uh. Right you are.

(I'm sorry, Jump 'n' Move. I couldn't take your post seriously. Then I realised it was meant to be a clever ironic satire, because really, it couldn't be anything else. And I've treated it as such.)

Edited by DuskWolf, 10 December 2012 - 07:52 AM.

[DuskWolf]

Shadow Warrior, on 09 December 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

While I do agree that there can come a point where you spend too much time bashing another person's treasure, I don't think that his comparison with games from other genres is invalid. People do that all the time, including professionals within the game industry. It comes down to what, specifically, you are comparing. In the quote you mentioned, he is speaking of the complexity/non-complexity of the AI. Is there any reason why he can't compare the AI from other genres with the AI in Guild Wars 2? What cardinal rule is he breaking here?

A post I can take seriously! Thank you. I... don't kow what rule I'm breaking, either. I'm asking for a game that responds intelligently to me as a player.

I feel that if a game responds intelligently to me as a player, the developer respects me as a person. They didn't "streamline" the game to the point where you're pushing a button (or a couple of buttons) to receive a pellet. I want to be impressed by the ingenuity of design. I bring up Mass Effect 3 because its AI won awards.

What I'm saying is basically this: GW2 takes liberally from the WoW style of AI - mobs make a beeline for the nearest player and you trade blows until you or the mob falls over (it's decided by numbers internally who actually falls over). ME3's multiplayer actually makes your input matter. Live or die, it depends more upon you than numbers.

I'd like to see less games that focus on numbers. I don't want to abandon my social life to grind for [Super Leet E-Peen of the Candied Whale +10], I want to just be able to play a game and have fun. I don't want to play a game, work a lot, and hope to eventually have fun.

When you look at a good game... well, it's something you load up and you just have fun, innit?

GW2? Not so much a good game, because you can't just load it up and have fun.

[DuskWolf]

Here's a truth based upon what I've been saying: The training dummy minigame of Free Realms requires more accuracy and smarter player inputs than anything in GW2 does. I can't imagine the average GW2 player doing any better than this guy, because GW2 does absolutely nothing at all to even begin to test hand-eye coordination. And that's sad.

I just had to use this to illustrate things a bit. I've been using Mass Effect 3, but maybe that's just going over too many heads. It's nice to have something that can challenge you tactically, that requires forethought, and then requires fast reaction times to execute. Rather than standing there and pushing butan for pellet.

All I want is a challenge that isn't tremendously worse than even the most casual games I've played. And no, time investment is not a challenge.

Why is that too much to ask?

[~PolarisNova~]

Well....I support the freedom people have to complain about GW2 all they want...but I don't have to support it.

I have played other MMO's....I know how BORED I was playing those. Personally, I have found GW2 to be so much more engaging, when the dynamic events are going off in full-throttle. Yes certain zones need the events to be upped somewhat. however in my opinion, I prefer hearts and dynamic events over anything I've experienced so far in previous MMO's.

[ToySoldier]

I enjoy reading your posts, Duskwolf.  In fact, you are one of the chief posters that prompts me to visit this forum.    I do not always agree with you though.

What you just showed from Free Realm to me reminds me of EQ raids.  I should say being a member of a raiding guild in EQ, but not being the raid strategy officer.  I was an officer and had fun planning raid strat.  But hated being in a large raid following prompts of the raid leader.  All the clicking, key punching can keep a player very busy with hand/eye coordination.  But it makes me feel like I am working somewhere punching keys.  I love GW2 PvE in the sense I can roam around and go through minimal key punching to immerse myself in imagination.  It's like sipping coffee and contemplating a chessboard or something... maybe less brain taxing than chess.  But I enjoy creativity that the GW2 PvE world prompts me to participate in with my imagination.

From my end, yes I bought GW2 after the manifesto led me to believe there will be no numbers grind in this revolutionary game.  Yes I was disappointed when less than 3 months after the launch we got our first gear upgrade.  What it taught me was to never trust a developer again.  This "grind" thing is not going to impact me at all.  I'm happy playing PvE using my own imagination with the beautiful PvE world in GW2, which must have cost the devs a healthy bundle of funds.

My concern is more for ANet.  Being I no longer plan to spend $ in the gem store to support gear grind, I wonder how ANet will fare if a lot of players are like me.  But if a lot are like the "gear-centric" players ANet is trying to court now.. it's no problem for me.  I'll be fine, and ANet will be fine.

I know you feel differently and I do hope the game can improve in the direction you want without alienating players who don't wish for "active play".  

Edited by ToySoldier, 10 December 2012 - 09:22 AM.

[Arquenya]

DuskWolf, on 10 December 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

GW2 does absolutely nothing at all to even begin to test hand-eye coordination. And that's sad.

Lies! You're saying that dodging red circles doesn't require any reflexes or hand-eye coordination??

[Ghostwing]

Shadow Warrior, on 09 December 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

While I do agree that there can come a point where you spend too much time bashing another person's treasure, I don't think that his comparison with games from other genres is invalid. People do that all the time, including professionals within the game industry. It comes down to what, specifically, you are comparing. In the quote you mentioned, he is speaking of the complexity/non-complexity of the AI. Is there any reason why he can't compare the AI from other genres with the AI in Guild Wars 2? What cardinal rule is he breaking here?

Well, for one thing instead of just saying "good AI" he can clarify on what exactly makes it better, and how that can fit into GW2 system. If the AI is smart because it's taking cover, that's not applicable to GW2. If we're talking about the open-world AI (instead of the dungeon AI) that's a whole different beast altogether because there are way the hell more variables in the GW2 open world instances than a 5 player map.

Edited by Ghostwing, 10 December 2012 - 10:44 AM.

[Millimidget]

Gilles VI, on 08 December 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

Nothing forbids you now of playing in other zones. I love to play in mount maelstrom, sparkfly fenn,... on my lvl80 characters.

A town burned down? That's news to me; I was in Lion's Arch.

[Ghostwing]

Arquenya, on 10 December 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

Lies! You're saying that dodging red circles doesn't require any reflexes or hand-eye coordination??

I think the problem is that some of the more interesting bosses have been toned down too much. The final boss in CoF P1, for example, has this group knockdown fire attack that is preceded by a specific animation of him striking the ground. I'd watch for that attack, and dodge, because in my mind I want to do the most DPS and kill it as fast as I can. But a lot of people don't bother because that boss can't kill you if you have half a brain. That boss should do more damage (or something) than he does, and that knockdown attack with the telegraph should be necessary to dodge, and that'll need reflexes. Hand-eye coordination, eh, yeah, not so much--but that applies to every other auto-targeting skillbar based game I can think of.

I remember in beta there were plenty of event bosses where you had to read telegraphs and dodge attacks. The ice griffin mini-boss in the Norn starter zone has been nerfed to a point where you don't have to. A few months ago the giants had the similar, deadly attacks that had telegraphs other than a red circle, but I am not sure if that's still the case.

Edited by Ghostwing, 10 December 2012 - 10:59 AM.

[Gilles VI]

DuskWolf, on 10 December 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

GW2? Not so much a good game, because you can't just load it up and have fun.

Weird, I can really do that!

Millimidget, on 10 December 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

A town burned down? That's news to me; I was in Lion's Arch.

What?

[Millimidget]

Gilles VI, on 10 December 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

What?

LF1M FotM.

[M3o5nster]

DuskWolf, on 10 December 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

A post I can take seriously! Thank you. I... don't kow what rule I'm breaking, either. I'm asking for a game that responds intelligently to me as a player.

I feel that if a game responds intelligently to me as a player, the developer respects me as a person. They didn't "streamline" the game to the point where you're pushing a button (or a couple of buttons) to receive a pellet. I want to be impressed by the ingenuity of design. I bring up Mass Effect 3 because its AI won awards.

What I'm saying is basically this: GW2 takes liberally from the WoW style of AI - mobs make a beeline for the nearest player and you trade blows until you or the mob falls over (it's decided by numbers internally who actually falls over). ME3's multiplayer actually makes your input matter. Live or die, it depends more upon you than numbers.

I'd like to see less games that focus on numbers. I don't want to abandon my social life to grind for [Super Leet E-Peen of the Candied Whale +10], I want to just be able to play a game and have fun. I don't want to play a game, work a lot, and hope to eventually have fun.

When you look at a good game... well, it's something you load up and you just have fun, innit?

GW2? Not so much a good game, because you can't just load it up and have fun.

Different types of games exist for different reasons... Believe it or not, many people like the casual nature of MMOs (I like Demon's Souls & MMOs, but I know I'm a minority). Every game can't cater to every player... It really seems as if GW2 and MMOs in general aren't for you.

I actually agree with having tougher A.I. as well as many other things, but I'm reasonable, and understand I can't have everything. If I don't like a game, then I just stop playing it... If anyone asks, I tell them why. I'm not sure what you plan to accomplish with your posts, other than venting... It seems a few people just don't want to listen to you vent, and I can't blame them.

Game is still new, so I'm going to give ANet a chance to polish the PVE to a point where I feel like logging on again. Right now, it's not holding my attention, unfortunately.

[Arquenya]

Jump_N_Move, on 09 December 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

The people who want a challenge, who are bored by everything else being produced, they are all neglected. They aren't the money makers. They don't shell out the money for the cash shop items. Those people just aren't the market. They never have and never will be the target of any AAA or brand-name producer.
There is just isn't an incentive for them in a profit-driven/greed-driven capitalist society. Quality is always sacrificed either in the name of time or profit. Your opinions just don't matter unless you're generating profit or have money to compensate/support them.

That's enough ranting. But everyone needs to be aware of it. I'm tired of the stupid people in this world who are too naive to see that they are being taken advantage of to their face. But that's partly their own fault, so the only option I have is to educate people in hopes they can grow and expand their knowledge. Only then can maybe these trends change. Then again they say ignorance is bliss yea?

Very valid points.

What truely keeps surprising me is that there hardly seem to be any companies that dare to believe in the quality of their own product. Because quality sells, it really does. I really wish there was a company with enough determination, resources and finances to make something really good. A publisher with at least some idealism to want to make a very high quality game.

Instead gameplay usually seems to be a (cowardly) mix of common denominator and max profit. Safe and profitable. So some people want horizontral progression? Throw it in the mix! Wait, most mmo's also have gear grind? Throw it in the mix too!
And sadly, people are generally still ok with it. Partially, of course, because there's no good alternatives, which make a lot of people believe that it's not even possible to make a good, enjoyable, intelligent quality game at all.

Duskwolf, I'm happy there's still idealists like him that have faith in game maker's ability to really make something remarkable. And won't settle for mediocrity, like most of us do.

Edited by Arquenya, 10 December 2012 - 01:19 PM.