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Thief p/p or s/p High Damage PvE Build

thief pve pistol sword p/p s/p

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#1 Radium

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 06:35 AM

I am pretty sure I either want to go p/p or s/p at this point. Here is what I am currently thinking of doing:

http://gw2skills.net...DgmTfGgVsaKw5LB

This build is focused mainly on damage output, with Hide in Shadows for stealth, Assassin Signet for increased damage, Roll for Initiative for further damage increase, Shadow Refuge for support capabilities. With s/p, the build would be pretty much the same:

http://gw2skills.net...jemTfGftraKw5LB

The only differences are the Critical Strikes Adept trait changing from Pistol Mastery to Furious Retaliation, Flanking Strikes changing to Uncatchable for Adept Trickery, and Ricochet changing to Initiail Strike for Master Trickery. In the case of the sword, front-facing fighting will be more likely, as will be the need to dodge, so I replaced positioning traits and Ricochet changing to Initial Strike, as the 1 key will be used more often with an s/p build than a p/p build. I chose the shortbow as backup for area of effect capabilities, pulling it out for those occasions when 5 enemies are clumped together.

The idea for the builds as a whole is to not rely on poisons, signets, or trick traits, and through that, power up the 3 button as much as possible, whether it be Unload or Pistol Whip. The focus here is on damage output. I know I could retool the build to sacrifice damage for a decrease in squishyness, but again, that is not what I am going for.

Criticisms, ideas, and feedback would all be massively appreciated.

Edited by Radium, 27 August 2012 - 06:36 AM.


#2 Heretiko

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 11:06 PM

i think that, since your damage output is not from conditions(referring to the first build, the p/p one), 25 points trickery are wasted, and you sacrifice a LOT of survivability doing so. I know those +5% damage from flanking is yummy, but again, i wold prefer to put those 25 points in Acrobatics. Why? Because p/p has the blind-tank opportunity: if you take condition damage, you can survive a bit longer than from putting 25 points in Thoughness. Simply dodge or blind if you fear a direct attack.

Atleast that's what i think i would do.

Edited by Heretiko, 16 September 2012 - 11:06 PM.


#3 Rachmani

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:34 AM

This is the spec I use:
http://gw2skills.net...DgKUe6fAs9MuqVB

Almost every utility skill is up to you, in fact I recommend switching them around.
I mainly use:
Signet of Malice
Hide in shadows
Signet of agility
Roll for initiative
Smoke Screen
Shadow Refuge
Infiltrator's Signet
Thief's guild
Dagger Storm &
Ambush Trap

With 30 crit strikes (and +10% damage above 6 initiative) it's crucial to save some initiative and let it stay above 6 for the most part. As long as it never regenerates to full you don't lose any damage (that's the joy of initative). 15 Trickery makes that possible, which is why it is a must have. 20 Acrobatics not only push your survivability but also gives you access to 2 initative per 10 seconds which further helps with staying above 6 initiative. With only 5 points left 10% more damage als long as endurance isn't full is the logical choice.

Here you could also go for 15 acrobatics & 25 Trickery. While this has the potential to do slightly more damage it'll also mean that you'll basically only use 5 initiative (otherwise you could just take my aforementioned build), which i personally didn't like at all.

Apart from that the spec plays rather strait forward and as long as you keep your endurance below 100% & your initiative above 6 your damage will be great.

#4 shadowstorme1122

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:31 AM

Hello,
Is the p/p combo yield the most dps among the weapon combos that a theif has ?

Im currently running p/p aswell the only problem i see in p/p combo is the aoe as compared to sword combinations or shortbow.

Thanks

#5 Heretiko

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:03 AM

View Postshadowstorme1122, on 17 September 2012 - 05:31 AM, said:

Hello,
Is the p/p combo yield the most dps among the weapon combos that a theif has ?

Im currently running p/p aswell the only problem i see in p/p combo is the aoe as compared to sword combinations or shortbow.

Thanks

p/p is a nice combo i would say, but indeed it's focussed on taking a single target at once. Switch to shortbow if you want to do good AOEs, or take the trait that gives you 5% chance to hit other enemies with bouncing pistol shots. P/P is also good for blind combos, like P/S, but with less CCs. Still high single target damage.

#6 shadowstorme1122

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:09 AM

View PostHeretiko, on 17 September 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

p/p is a nice combo i would say, but indeed it's focussed on taking a single target at once. Switch to shortbow if you want to do good AOEs, or take the trait that gives you 5% chance to hit other enemies with bouncing pistol shots. P/P is also good for blind combos, like P/S, but with less CCs. Still high single target damage.

Thanks, in terms of dps does p/p combo do more as compared to s/p or s/d or d/d ? im currently lv48 and i dont have a pistol or a dagger or a sword that has the same level thus i can't tell which is doing more dps, but it seems the p/p is doing more , im not sure but during my early stages the s/p deals more damage over the p/p

#7 Heretiko

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:32 AM

p/p brings more directed DPS, while S/p brings one more stun with also high damage(pistol whip is so cool). The only combo i don't like is sword/dagger: i really don't understand it's usage. Maybe in pvp should go fine but in PVE...meh...so random skills. But that's imho. Maybe someone of you used it.

Anyway i was running a condition build with d/p to spam autoattack building up bleed; mixed with venom and cloack and dagger to spam even more bleeds. Now i got bored of it, trying P/P and it's really fun, especially with Haste :P

I wonder if it's better to take points in Power instead of Trickery..

#8 Razk

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:46 AM

I like it that someone else is running a similar build. I am running my own build with S/P and P/D, which i switched to P/P when i encounter bosses that remain stationary.

Here's my build and the reasons why i dont put 25 points in Trickery: http://gw2skills.net...Ao5kn HIrODc SA

Basically it all came down to Exposed Weakness and Executioner vs Initial Strike and Lead Attacks.

Exposed Weakness is better than Lead Attacks in PVE in general. This is obviously true in dungeons when every mobs has at least 1 condition on them at all time, be it bleeding, burning, vulnerability, blind etc. And ask yourself how often do you have more than 10 initiative during a fight? You should not have to worry too much about spamming skills to save those for extra damage from Lead Attacks (just make your that you always have more than 6 initiative)

I am not sure how well Initial Strike work but Executioner is a huge damage boost. At the very least you can see bigger number with this buff, then again you dont have to worry about spamming skills to keep the extra damage for Lead Attack especially when the boss is at low hp.

With this build, you have at least 40% damage buff when mob has less than 50% hp.

50 more Power, 5% condition damage duration, 50 Precision and 5% more crit damage are clearly better than 100 condition damage and 4.5 seconds shorter steal recharge time for direct damage.

So, what do you think?

Ps. The skill choices are situational and can always be switched around during dungeon runs so i would leave those to your preference.

Edit: trying to fix my link but its not working for some reason, but my build is 25/30/0/0/15

Edited by Razk, 17 September 2012 - 10:04 AM.


#9 Fhaerris

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:30 AM

View PostRazk, on 17 September 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

Here's my build and the reasons why i dont put 25 points in Trickery: http://gw2skills.net...Ao5kn HIrODc SA


I'm using something like this and it works great both in PVE and PVP (WvWvW) :)
http://gw2skills.net...jemTe6fgs6Mw5LB

Sometimes I switch skills a little but mostly this is enough to succesfull explorable runs for me and my team

Edited by Fhaerris, 17 September 2012 - 11:32 AM.


#10 Rachmani

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:54 AM

View PostHeretiko, on 17 September 2012 - 07:32 AM, said:

p/p brings more directed DPS, while S/p brings one more stun with also high damage(pistol whip is so cool). The only combo i don't like is sword/dagger: i really don't understand it's usage. Maybe in pvp should go fine but in PVE...meh...so random skills. But that's imho. Maybe someone of you used it.

Anyway i was running a condition build with d/p to spam autoattack building up bleed; mixed with venom and cloack and dagger to spam even more bleeds. Now i got bored of it, trying P/P and it's really fun, especially with Haste :P

I wonder if it's better to take points in Power instead of Trickery..

Sword/Dagger is actually quite nice if used as a tanking tool/spec. I played a bit as 0 0 30 25 15 with power + toughness + healing gear, taking the "regenerate health in stealth" trait and with flanking strike as another evade you're quite sturdy. To be fair however, you could probably just take dual dagger and achieve the same with an actual attack "on top". I even did some explorer mode dungeons with it.
While I like it i'd rather go for a more damage focused approach though when soloing stuff (although you just don't die).

For P/P I'd never take less than 15 trickery. 15 Initiative are just really really good with unload costs & 10% more damage above 6 initiative. However, if you don't need acrobatics you could just play 25 30 0 0 15 which really has everything you want in terms of pure damage. I myself don't want to play without at least some protection so for me 15 acrobatics is kind of a must, especially in explorer mode. The ability to stack might through dodges and longer might duration helps out acrobatics in that case though. Also, remember you have the 5 stacks of might on signet use trait which you might want to take instead of 5% pistol damage if you equip a shortbow in the other weapon slot (which you should).

Edited by Rachmani, 17 September 2012 - 11:57 AM.


#11 shadowstorme1122

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 05:04 AM

Hello,
What would be a good secondary weapon if your primary weapon set are p/p.  And what trait and skills would be the best choice for the said weapon combinations.

Thanks

#12 jejaj

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 08:37 AM

http://gw2skills.net...eSo4J/DOoODc6lA

This is my fovorite build. Its works on PvE very good, in Dungeons is amazing :)

#13 shadowstorme1122

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:38 AM

View Postjejaj, on 18 September 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

http://gw2skills.net...eSo4J/DOoODc6lA

This is my fovorite build. Its works on PvE very good, in Dungeons is amazing :)

Hello,
Im guessing you just stay range most of the time as your secondary weapon is a shortbow.

I don't know but isn't Flanking Strikes better over Instinctual Response in terms of DPS, same goes for Side Strikes is a better DPS trait over Furious Retaliation.  Maybe im missing something thats why you picked them over the traits i've mentioned.


Is there a build in where your primary weapon is p/p then your secondary is melee.  I know how amazingly good shortbow is especially on aoe fights.

#14 Fouinot

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 11:58 AM

Just a quick question off topic, how does the trait Dagger Training (5% damage with daggers) works exactly ? I'm using pistol/dagger so is the 5% damage only applicable to my 3,4 and 5 skills or does it work with my "pistol skills" 1 and 2 because i'm wearing a dagger offhand ?
Thanks :)




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