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I really WANT to like Mesmer


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#1 MJJCLEAVEDGE

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:41 PM

I've tried out almost every profession and while I'm not the fastest leveler, I have gotten each one of them to level 10. I like the idea of the mesmer, but do they gain any damage at any point? My illusions are doing 0 damage and the phantasms will attack once then die before attacking again. Also most of the time when I summon an illusion (the teleport 1h sword ability) it just doesn't appear and the ability goes on CD without anything happening. I'm guessing this is a just a path issue on my part and I need to try and make sure that the height is about the same?

Also what would you guys recommend for weapons? I like the GS but it seems to be just a quick opener and then you HAVE to swap to your other weapon set, which for me currently is sword/sword (sometimes pistol, haven't decided which I fully like better), to finish a mob off.

Playing the other professions that I've found myself enjoying, the warrior, engineer,  and ranger , I've found myself becoming frustrated that they can just blow things up and move on to the next target. Not to mention while out in the world I will give it my all to down a mob while a warrior just rushed up to it and demolishes it without a care in the world.

Like I said, I really really want to like a mesmer, but I'm getting really frustrated with the lack of survivability and damage. If what I'm doing to kill mobs is wrong then please fill me in on how to do it right! I would love to keep going with the mesmer, but I want to not feel like I'm in agony every time I accidentally aggro a second mob.

Also is there a way to control the illusions beyond the F1-F4 keys? Or do they just do their own thing?

Thank you all for any help/tips/encouragement/criticism that you may have!


Rotation for clarity's sake

GS to start
#4
#2
#5
Swap to Sw/Sw or Sw/P...the following is for Sw/Sw
#4 or #2 or dodge depending on if the mob is at me or not
#5
#2
#1 spam to finish with using any illusions that are up to explode

all of that seem about right?

#2 eviator

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:52 PM

Mesmer has been a mixed bag for me as well. I'm having trouble getting over a skill plateau at the moment. It's hard for me to keep straight the abilities and gameplay style of the different weapons so I'm having to spend a lot of time really getting to know each weapon. Right now I'm trying to ingrain Staff and Sword/Focus. Since I'm just level 10 my traits and gear aren't really much of a factor on build yet. Assuming I really get my brain wrapped around those weapons, then I'll experiment with greatsword and scepter/torch or pistol.

I also noticed Illusionary Leap not actually generating a clone but still going on a cooldown. It might be an out-of-range thing, though. Clones are supposed to do negligible damage. They exist to distract the enemy and as fodder for shatters, or procs of "number of illusions" abilities, so that is how you should use them. The Phantasms actually do some damage, so the decision to shatter them is a matter of build and playstyle.

My opening depends upon whether it's an AoE fight, or whether it's just a normal mob vs elite. In an AoE fight I'll lay down Chaos storm then pop a clone or two, then shatter for more AoE. Then as then get in melee range I'll swap to Sword/focus, pop the warden, frenzy, and with auto-attack that's usually enough until stuff comes off cooldown. For an elite I'll open with the staff's phantasm and clone, staff auto-attack, and as they get closer Chaos armor. I may or may not shatter as they approach. Then I'll switch to Sword/focus, do a dodge or two while I pop some illusions, then frenzy, shatter and auto-attack. Rinse and repeat, really. I actually seem to do a fair bit of damage. Mind you, this is with a build that currently has no traits.

Edited by eviator, 28 August 2012 - 02:21 AM.


#3 Strill

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:54 PM

For survivability in PVE take Decoy.  Stealth plus a clone is about as good as you can get for escaping. Take either Veil or Blink as well for more survivability. I've had very very little issue with aggroing mobs thanks to these skills, particularly if you immediately use Distortion after stealthing to get rid of the clone so the mobs don't keep running to you.

I use Sword/Focus and Greatsword. I could do more damage with another offhand, but I've been doing WvW a lot and havn't bothered switching. For my opening combo it's GS #4, #2, #3, #5 >SwordFocus #5, #3, #2 Mind Wrack  Overall pretty similar to yours.  I sometimes mind wrack earlier than that, but that combo should be sufficient to finish off a single mob.

Targeted Illusion summoning skills require line of sight, require you to be in range, and can be dodged, as little sense as that makes.  If any of those conditions are not true, your skill will go on cooldown and no illlusion will be spawned. Pretty stupid in my opinion, especially given how clunky they are already.

Yes Greatsword is only good for burst with moderate AoE, yes Mind Wrack does pitiful damage, no it's never a good idea to Mind Wrack a phantasm if it or its target isn't going to die soon.... *unless* you absolutely need some AoE.

Edited by Strill, 27 August 2012 - 11:00 PM.


#4 MJJCLEAVEDGE

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:57 PM

Okay good points and explanations about illusions/phantasms. I guess I just need to keep working at it until things become second nature!

#5 Apple14

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 11:34 PM

It's good that they kept the Mesmer playstyle like it was in Guild Wars 1, somewhat. You have to try much harder to achieve the same results as others, but the playstyle is much more satisfying to those who desire a slightly higher learning curve.

#6 Gregor Sabetin

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 11:55 PM

Quote

Also most of the time when I summon an illusion (the teleport 1h sword ability) it just doesn't appear and the ability goes on CD without anything happening. I'm guessing this is a just a path issue on my part and I need to try and make sure that the height is about the same?

Nope, it's actually the range who has been nerfed (600 instead of 1200). It's very hard to use this skill now and I don't use main hand sword a lot for that reason.

Quote

Also what would you guys recommend for weapons?

I find them all good but IMO mainhand, offhand sword and also torch a little bit less in PVE.

And maybe I'm doing everything wrong, but why do you all start the fight with a phantasm (#4GS)? It'll be killed before it hits once or just after. I prefer getting the aggro of the mob or letting a clone do the job so that my iBerseker can live a little longer.

Edited by Gregor Sabetin, 27 August 2012 - 11:57 PM.


#7 eviator

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 11:59 PM

View PostGregor Sabetin, on 27 August 2012 - 11:55 PM, said:

And maybe I'm doing everything wrong, but why do you all start the fight with a phantasm (#4GS)? It'll be killed before it hits once or just after. I prefer getting the aggro of the mob or letting a clone do the job so that my iBerseker can live a little longer.

Truth be told I haven't worked all of this out yet. Battle is frequently too chaotic for me to notice, and perhaps, as you suggest, I'm just wasting a skill/phantasm right at the start.

#8 MrSmithers

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 12:05 AM

Give it a good try and don't get too discouraged.  As the only profession I've even tried so far, I'm finding it very enjoyable and not too difficult to get things done.  I am using a staff and like the results of it what it brings to the field of play.  Gotta just keep chugging along and you're sure to get the feel of what works best.

#9 Deviija

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 01:58 AM

Yeah, the learning curve for Mesmer has been difficult for me.  You really need to understand your weapons and abilities and profession abilities and utilities (for escapes) well.  You need to understand what synergizes with what and how to play that to your advantage.  IMO, Mesmer is heavy on the set-up.  You want to get your phantasms/clones up soon to start getting to work while you use your condition skills/stun locks/escapes and evades and heals while spamming the #1 skill in between to help with damage.  And also changing between weapons and shattering illusions when they're about to die or when the enemy/enemies have low hp.  

There have been a couple times that I wanted to stop playing Mesmer period because I felt the frustration level and learning curve were too high and I wasn't going to be able to get through it.  Because Mesmer in itself?  Is not that much of a 'press a skill and do massive damage' type of class, especially so since you are incredibly frail in the beginning of the game (and throughout, really, but later on you can trait yourself out to help buff your abilities and thus quicken your fights).  At level 22, I *finally* feel like I'm surviving better, understanding better, and doing more damage.  My clones/phantasms last longer and hit a bit more than they used to (for a long long time they were hitting for 0 on everything no matter what weapon I had cloned/phantasm'd).  

My personal set up right now is 5 in Power, 5 in Illusions.  Those innate passives at the 5 point mark have helped me.  I'm using the Staff and Sword/Pistol as weapons.  I start off with Staff #2, hit #3, throw down chaos storm, then switch to Sw/P and hit Leap, or if I need to I'll hit #2 to evade and deal high damage, then I may hit utility decoy if I need to get away and ether heal, use staff's #1 spam from afar, all while my clones/phantasms are still out and distracting/damaging.  By that time enemies should be low on health, so I shatter them.  If not, I keep rotating on my weapons, putting out clones/phantasms, and escaping/healing.  It's a very taxing kind of class to play, imo, since you have to be thinking much of the time.  But I'm starting to like it again around level 20-21.

#10 Corvindi

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 02:05 AM

I'm having trouble getting into Mesmer, too.  I like the staff best so far (of course I'm not even level 10 yet), but I feel like more of a tankish, slow killer than a cloth wearer.

#11 Zhain

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 02:07 AM

I'm having a hard time with multiple mobs.  I can take care of a single mob pretty easily, but as soon as I have to fight two at once, it all starts to break down.  Currently using Sword + Pistol / Greatsword, though I am considering switching from GS to Staff.

#12 CasualPvP

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 04:36 AM

View PostMJJCLEAVEDGE, on 27 August 2012 - 10:41 PM, said:

Playing the other professions that I've found myself enjoying, the warrior, engineer,  and ranger , I've found myself becoming frustrated that they can just blow things up and move on to the next target. Not to mention while out in the world I will give it my all to down a mob while a warrior just rushed up to it and demolishes it without a care in the world.
That sums up my experience as well, mesmer (at low levels at least) is a lot more "work" than other classes. My guess is that at higher levels this starts to change such that everyone is swapping weapons and using the majority of their skills in a fight.

The other thing that makes a huge difference are good weapons. I found that when I hit level 15 and got some decent lvl 15 weapons (the swamp in the NW of Caledonia Forest and WvW drops are good places) things changed pretty dramatically where I could stand toe to toe using main hand sword and just sort of whack away at things (if I wanted a slower, boring but winnable fight).

#13 Sausajoooz

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 04:41 AM

I really like the Mesmer. Im using Sword/Pistrol and Staff. I really cant stand the Greatsword, just sitting back and spamming, I find it pretty boring.

For the mainhand Sword teleport, if youre not in range, the cooldown will start but nothing will happen.

And I get what you mean about things needing alot of effort to kill, but at least it feels like Im killing with style xD

#14 Delusional

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 04:46 AM

Mesmer has been the only class I've played all head start. Mesmer is really easy as long as you're not expecting to mow everything down with just pure DPS and while just standing there. It's my favorite class because it's all about timing. You have to REALLY get into it, and the survivability is all about how you kite/stun and time your big hitters.

Just a tip:
When taking on two/three mobs at the same time, if you run around in circles (stay in their aggro or they'll just run away) and pull up clones, you can knock them out fairly quickly. Dodge TOWARDS them if you're close enough for them to hit you, making you instantly behind them and start circle kiting in the other direction. If you have no energy and need to put some space between you and them (using the pistol) use Magic Bullet for a quick stun. Or, if you have clones or anything up already, use your daze. This typically gives you a good amount of distance and allows for you to put up more clones/illusions/phantasms which also in turn distracts them for a moment or two, giving you time to DPS them down. This can also be used for 1v1s but really isn't necessary.

My DPS isn't the best, but if I stun/daze an enemy and then throw down an Phantasmal Duelist and hit Confusing Images right as my duelist starts shooting, I can mow them down while also Confusing them if they happen to live through it. But by then I've also got clones to finish the job and if I wanted, I could sit back and watch them do the dirty work for me

Edited by Delusional, 28 August 2012 - 04:52 AM.


#15 Passive Aggressive

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 09:23 AM

There is no lack of survivability with mesmers at all once you have some of your utility spells.  Personally I am mostly using Scepter/pistol  and staff to level and scepter/focus and staff for WvW.  The staff brings great tanking abilities.

I haven't played the other classes really though except for warrior a bit. I could see how it might be frustrating that mesmer is not a burst class like some others.

#16 Sixpax

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 01:40 PM

Mesmer is definitely a late bloomer compared to other professions.  You really need some decent traits before they start to shine, and for PvE I consider the Signet of Illusions to be a necessity.  I'd also recommend Feedback and Mimic (which supposedly stops all ranged attacks for the duration now).

What I've been doing while soloing at lower levels is using Scepter+Sword (2 block skills) and Sword+Focus (distortion, temporal curtain w/pull, & defensive bubble from iWarden).  It's not the norm, but I feel that gives me much better survivability.  In groups I'll swap to GS and/or Staff when my survivability isn't as much of an issue.

#17 EasymodeX

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 02:25 PM

Recommendation:

Do not start with Sword on the Mesmer until you get used to the control scheme for the game and get fluid with how to play your Mesmer.  Until you can kite, dodge, manipulate mob aggro on your clones, Sword is very risky to use.

Also, with no traits and such, at low level, Scepter is really good because of its Clone generation + Shatter.  GS and Staff are good for their AOE/multitarget capabilities.

#18 KodakMoment

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 02:37 PM

View PostGregor Sabetin, on 27 August 2012 - 11:55 PM, said:

Nope, it's actually the range who has been nerfed (600 instead of 1200). It's very hard to use this skill now and I don't use main hand sword a lot for that reason.



I find them all good but IMO mainhand, offhand sword and also torch a little bit less in PVE.

And maybe I'm doing everything wrong, but why do you all start the fight with a phantasm (#4GS)? It'll be killed before it hits once or just after. I prefer getting the aggro of the mob or letting a clone do the job so that my iBerseker can live a little longer.

I think they need to increase the leap range to 800-900 you pretty much have to arleady be close to the enemy to use it

#19 ducckz

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 02:39 PM

my leveling partner plays mesmer with sword + gun and does loads of dmg
thats all i can say about mesmer

#20 Athletic

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 02:45 PM

I'm still only lvl 18, but pve is going really easy for me.

What I mostly do is have sword mainhand and w/e offhand (focus, pistol, sword doesn't even matter):
-hit 3, then the phantasm then 2 = dead mob (bad at remembering the names).

Still cooldowns? switch to staff: -storm, double illusion trait, warlock = dead mob.

#21 Chaotic Ignorance

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 05:19 PM

I feel so alone in my hatred of the Greatsword and love of the Scepter. I just shoot at an enemy with Scepter #1, until I get my first clone out. By that point the enemy is on top of me and I use the #2 skill and block for a second clone. Then go back to #1 until a third pops out, where I then use the F2 ability to apply confusion. With all three clones gone, I use the #5 skill when using a torch, followed by #3 to keep confusions going, and then I pop out two more clones with Mirror Images, use F1, then rince and repeat until dead. If it's a ranged enemy I throw a Feedback bubble over them and let them slaughter themselves. It takes a bit longer than a Warrior, but I think it looks so much cooler when done.

#22 kilger

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Posted 28 August 2012 - 05:26 PM

Illusionary leap is definately an issue, I find it often doesnt go off for me even if within range.  They should have left it 1200.

Otherwise I'm not having too bad a time of it.  Only level 16 but doing alright.  Its certainly not as easy to pve with as most classes since its based on finesse and not as much on direct damage, but its fine.  I am having trouble with the norn questline but I think a lot of light armor classes are.

I run classic staff & sword/pistol.

#23 P4ndora

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 08:22 AM

I also struggled on my first levels, but now I'm level 18 and I think mesmers are pretty good. I don't know if it has to do something with traits/utility skills, maybe I just got used to this profession and I got masterwork weapons and gear.

I used to run a confusion mesmer. I made enough damage with them, the #3 scepter skill is pretty nice and with auto-attack I could summon a nice amount of clones and shatter them with cry of frustration. Only problem is that you have to walk in melee range and let the mobs hit you + not really viable against multiple mobs (well, I don't think you have to face more than 2 mobs at a time on low levels tbh).

Now I use sword/focus and staff. The sword MH has very high damage, too bad the #3 skill seems to be bugged, most of the time it does nothing but goes on a cooldown. While the focus phantasm is not the best one, the #4 skill makes up for it. That skill is awesome, it not only gives swiftness to allies and cripples foes, if you press it for a second time (Into the Void) it pulls enemies into it. When this skill is ready, you can run away easily with it if needed. It also good to pull every mob into one place and let your teammates AoE them down. The staff is a great support and also has some nice AoE skills. Staff is also great on 1vs1, just summon the clone and autoattack... you'll get nice buffs really fast and the mob will die very fast due to the debuffs.

edit: The only thing I find annoying is that your illusions vanish when their target is dead. Fighting with multiple enemies would be easier if they stay :S

Edited by P4ndora, 29 August 2012 - 09:10 AM.


#24 kilger

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 02:40 PM

View PostP4ndora, on 29 August 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

I also struggled on my first levels, but now I'm level 18 and I think mesmers are pretty good. I don't know if it has to do something with traits/utility skills, maybe I just got used to this profession and I got masterwork weapons and gear.

I used to run a confusion mesmer. I made enough damage with them, the #3 scepter skill is pretty nice and with auto-attack I could summon a nice amount of clones and shatter them with cry of frustration. Only problem is that you have to walk in melee range and let the mobs hit you + not really viable against multiple mobs (well, I don't think you have to face more than 2 mobs at a time on low levels tbh).

Now I use sword/focus and staff. The sword MH has very high damage, too bad the #3 skill seems to be bugged, most of the time it does nothing but goes on a cooldown. While the focus phantasm is not the best one, the #4 skill makes up for it. That skill is awesome, it not only gives swiftness to allies and cripples foes, if you press it for a second time (Into the Void) it pulls enemies into it. When this skill is ready, you can run away easily with it if needed. It also good to pull every mob into one place and let your teammates AoE them down. The staff is a great support and also has some nice AoE skills. Staff is also great on 1vs1, just summon the clone and autoattack... you'll get nice buffs really fast and the mob will die very fast due to the debuffs.

edit: The only thing I find annoying is that your illusions vanish when their target is dead. Fighting with multiple enemies would be easier if they stay :S

Yep I switched to sword/focus last night, its my new pve default along with staff.  Once you've had speed youre hooked.  I even added sigil of midnight to squeeze out another second.

#25 Jairyn

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 02:50 PM

Sword/focus is a delightful combination. Greatsword is boring, but effective, so long as you can keep opponents at bay. Staff is solid and has chaos storm, so <3. Scepter still feels to slow for my taste and I hate having the "useless" clones of scepter and GS as opposed to condition applying/boon stripping buddies of staff and sword.

Mesmer is super squishy at low levels, and hasn't yet really reached its damage potential. Traits and utilities are very important to us, as is familiarity withbour mechanics and a panache for setup with a correspondingly quick uptake on improvisation, as even the best laid plans go wrong. It gets better.

#26 ReaXtioN_

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 04:49 PM

I really enjoy the Mesmer, because it isn't a dash and slash class.  For me, the best weapon combination has been the scepter with the pistol and the sword with the torch.  The scepter I run +condition damage to increase confusion damage.  My sequence is the pistol duelist to deal damage followed by the scepter's confusion skill for damage and confusion damage.  Most likely the enemy is about to attack, so I use the scepter's block skill.  The enemy takes about 160 damage per attack with confusion stacked 5 times.  Now I have a clone and duelist out, so I shatter them for some spike damage.  

Now, I have the choice to stun the target with the pistol and try to bring out a clone with the scepter's #1 attack for a confusion shatter, or I swap to my sword set.  If I swap to the sword, I can auto attack to get two stacks of venerability or go straight to the DPS skill.  If that doesn't finish him or them, then I may need to use the torch to disappear and either run, or burn them upon return.  

You also have the choice at this point to draw out the torch's illusion to cause more confusion.  At this point, you should also be able to swap out to the scepter and pistol again.  If you need to wait for a few skills, spending time shattering clones from your scepter is always fun too.

I don't know if the torch is necessary for the sword, but it does have some decent protection and the Illusion causing more confusion is nice as well.  But the offhand is up to your own preference.

To me, the Mesmer is the assassin/thief of the spell casters, because you are concentrating on taking down the biggest enemy first and then picking the weaker foes off later one at a time.

#27 Lastchime

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 06:01 PM

First time in a long time I actually gave myself a headache weighing pros and cons on weapons in a game.

Ended up just sticking with sword/focus + staff cause I'm boring like that after all. Really would like the torch for the blast finish but everything else the torch does I feel is just done more concisely via decoy or well enough at least to not want to give up temporal curtain for it.

#28 Pipples

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 06:02 PM

View PostMJJCLEAVEDGE, on 27 August 2012 - 10:41 PM, said:

...snip...

I went with: http://gw2skills.net...qyWlrKZVrIGLsJA

I'm solely using the staff right now and playing W3 with it. In PvE the #2 and #4 skills are awesome, all of the skills are nice in PvP. If you look at Winds of Chaos you'll see that the damage will be more condition-based than a flat number (flat base damage is only 80 at level 80) so the initial numbers will look low. That and the fact most of your skills double as buffs AND conditions things get a little hinky

Also, Decoy IS very nice for PvE (as someone above mentioned) so yeah, take that. It's nice especially because it's only 1 point

If you don't like Mesmer, try a D/D Necro :P

#29 Draegan

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 08:49 PM

I'm going to shill this article I wrote: http://www.guildwars...-journey-to-80/

It might answer a lot of questions some of you newer players might have.

#30 MJJCLEAVEDGE

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 09:56 PM

Wow! Some amazing replies here! Thanks everyone, I appreciate it more than you know. Also I'm still trucking with the mesmer and I decided to give staff a solid try and it is working very very well. I'm still on the fence for pistol or sword OH but a MH sword is very nice for the weapon swap. The poor GS in my inventory has taken up dust collecting as a hobby, but after I get a few more traits under my belt and a bit more experience I'd like to go with GS again, in some manner at least. Again thanks everyone and I hope this helped out more than just me!




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