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Minion's Invincible Thief Build

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#421 Nemhy

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:56 AM

I want to use D/D and Dual pistols. I want to run a condition build because my mesmer is already a crit damage build and I would like something a bit different.  Would this work out or do you strongly recommend the Shortbow over the Dual pistols?

#422 Minion

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 04:07 AM

View PostNemhy, on 25 November 2012 - 02:56 AM, said:

I want to use D/D and Dual pistols. I want to run a condition build because my mesmer is already a crit damage build and I would like something a bit different.  Would this work out or do you strongly recommend the Shortbow over the Dual pistols?

Always carry a pair of pistols for those occasions you join a PUG team for a dungeon with little crowd control. In most dungeons you can reliably steal Fear, but headshot/black powder might be necessary if your team are bad enough. the shortbow is for casual everyday use for when your reactions are suffering and can't dodge well in melee. The shortbow works well with either condition/crit builds and with D/D functions well as a cheap AoE and also AoE weakness (poison field+cluster bomb=Area Weakness for about 10s?)

The bow's AoE nicely off-sets the dagger's high single-target DPS, though, so I don't see the need for pistols unless your team are in severe trouble. Some find that view selfish, however, so better ask around.

#423 maxwolfie

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:04 AM

I'm at level 74 and have been using the condition damage build with great success. I've just bought my level 60 manual and I'm now thinking that I might try out the crit build.

Should I wait until I'm 80?

#424 Rawling

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 11:55 AM

I'm really looking forward to trying the condition build out (just hit 40 and used my free respec) but the Grandmaster trait choices seem odd.
Critical Strikes: Why have you picked XII (100% crit chance in stealth) when the only stealth in the build is from Cloak and Dagger? I would've thought XI (+20% damage vs <50% health) would fit with Heartseeker.
Less odd, Trickery: Is XII (1s daze on steal) that useful? (I'm only level 40 so as, far as I know, Daze could be really useful at higher levels.) XI (+4i from a heal skill) would give you +6i total when you hit heal, for a whole extra DB.

#425 Majigor

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 05:11 PM

View PostMinion, on 23 November 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

Your assumption is correct, smart one.

Lol!

#426 Thorfinnr

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:57 PM

Hey Minion, just wanted to chime in...have been using this and trying different set-ups while leveling.

Dual Daggers and Dual Pistols are wat I have settled on...I do keep a SB just in case, but rarely use it.

I'm only at @lvl 36 right now...and using Agony on both daggers, and Minor Sigil of Fire on one pistol and Minor Accuracy in the other.

Hit Trickery first for traits, the Deadly for the steal bonus, the crit strikes.

Working like a charm, can deal with groups of 2-3 level higher than me, usually...some cases i still get p0wned...but hey...I am only lvl 36. :)

Really enjoying this build.

#427 Minion

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:48 AM

View PostRawling, on 25 November 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

I'm really looking forward to trying the condition build out (just hit 40 and used my free respec) but the Grandmaster trait choices seem odd.
Critical Strikes: Why have you picked XII (100% crit chance in stealth) when the only stealth in the build is from Cloak and Dagger? I would've thought XI (+20% damage vs <50% health) would fit with Heartseeker.
Less odd, Trickery: Is XII (1s daze on steal) that useful? (I'm only level 40 so as, far as I know, Daze could be really useful at higher levels.) XI (+4i from a heal skill) would give you +6i total when you hit heal, for a whole extra DB.

I'm surprised those traits are still wrong... I've not had time to change them back to normal (mix-up with the copypasta)

The condition version is supposed to use Executioner instead of Hidden Killer. Daze on a 35s~ recharge is nice and wasting Signet of Malice for a measly amount of initiative is wasteful (and redundant, like that sentence). Too bad it's not "gain initiative when healed" because then it'd be infinite and SoM would be worth it! Currently it's second rate because it offers nothing but lots of regen. No spike heal, no regen, no condition removal, no cloak, just faux regen. When you're attacking. If poison hits you and there's no enemy... You're going down.

#428 Rawling

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:59 PM

Thanks for clearing that up. I've gone from 40 to 50 pretty quickly (for me) off the back off your build, so thanks for that too :)

#429 Umbra nox

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:00 PM

i have a problem:
i went backstab build a while back, but i found that since my stupid ass team mates won't stop rolling through mobs while im behind them i can't seem to survive, even if i did i continuously died to random (nearly)unavoidable damage, i chalked the problem up to my gear, but even after replacing more of my berserker parts with others more surv based i found that i was still focusing more on keeping myself alive rather than actually doing damage and being useful for the team (nothing feels more redundant than SBing a single mob). so i changed to venom-share; and while this is plenty fun, i feel like i could do more of an impact if changed to a more dmg based build, so now i feel like i should go condition-dmg p/p + d/d, i lose some team utility but gain more damage. the only problem: i don't know what gear i should go for, what mix would be most effective, going complete damage would be quite foolish in my opinion, but i can't quite figure out what i will need, and since we're talking rare/exotic gear, i can't just go with trial and error.

so my question is basically: what gear combination (details pls) would be most effective for a condition-dmg p/p+d/d build where i can enter into melee-combat and have some panic room (not get killed in a double strike or W/E it is they'll do)? i would also like similar input on a power based build if possible.

#430 plunderisley

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:03 AM

Thanks for the build. I've been using the condition build for map completion (lvl 75 with some 45% world donw along with a few dungeon runs). One thing I noticed is that I die very quickly from any poison and dungeons are quite difficult - I have to use range all the time.

#431 plunderisley

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 01:30 AM

And what runes would you recommend to the Rampager build? I was looking into Mad King. What about the Sigils?

#432 malevolence

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 10:11 PM

View Postplunderisley, on 07 December 2012 - 01:30 AM, said:

And what runes would you recommend to the Rampager build? I was looking into Mad King. What about the Sigils?

He recommended Scholar runes. Now I am having also the same issue, the condition damage build was fine for content up to level 75ish, in Orr, I die every 5 minutes. What I notice is, signet of malice healing is very low, there is no condition removal at all in the condition damage build, so conditions kills you easily (considering all Risen inflict poison with long long duration). Try to fight veterans in Orr, they will destroy you in seconds :(

And yes, what about sigils ? weapons mods for the condition damage build? What about a bit of Toughness, Vitality or Healing power? What do you think about the new Apothecary armor?

Edited by malevolence, 11 December 2012 - 10:12 PM.


#433 Kashi

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 04:54 PM

So i have a question, i started to follow this guide

Quote

>Dual daggers
>Hide In Shadows
>Shadow Refuge (AKA "iHouse")
>Signet of Shadows/Assassin's Signet
>Roll for Initiative/Shadow Step
>20 (VI, IX)/30 (III, X, XII)/20(V, III)/0/0
>berserker/Valkyrie armour and Ruby/Beryl jewels
[basic usage: cloak as often as possible, maintaining Revealed means you're maximising your damage, and stay behind the target while autoattacking. Also, use Hide in Shadows to lead into another backstab while near-downed]
But i dont understand the difference between this guide http://www.guildhead...vooxxa9MocscabV and the one posted above? Which one is the best ? And if i dont use the Ihouse, what other 5 traits would you consider?

Thanks

Edited by Kashi, 21 December 2012 - 06:06 PM.


#434 Stuligan

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 10:55 PM

View PostMinion, on 28 August 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

There are two types of builds when focusing on melee:
High powered crits

>Dual daggers
>Hide In Shadows
>Shadow Refuge (AKA "iHouse")
>Signet of Shadows/Assassin's Signet
>Roll for Initiative/Shadow Step
>20 (VI, IX)/30 (III, X, XII)/20(V, III)/0/0
>berserker/Valkyrie armour and Ruby/Beryl jewels
[basic usage: cloak as often as possible, maintaining Revealed means you're maximising your damage, and stay behind the target while autoattacking. Also, use Hide in Shadows to lead into another backstab while near-downed]

or   condition damage
>Dual daggers
>Signet of Malice
>Roll for Initiative
>Signet of Shadows
>Assassin's Signet
>10 (VI)/30 (II, VIII, XII)/0/0/30(V, VII, XII)
>Rampager/Carrion armour/coral jewel
[basic usage:Evade whilst attacking; tighten mobs and lure several enemies to maximise the damage from DB and heal from Signet of Malice]



The condition heavy build is designed to abuse Death Blossom as much as possible for high DoTAoE whilst constantly evading, while the Backstab build is focused on dealing high single-target damage using the stealth mechanic to abuse AI for defence.

Traits

The important traits to take note of when a lower level are:
Kleptomaniac- requires 5 Trickery; Stealing returns 3i. Needless to say, this changes how you would use Steal. Instead of Stealing into combat, you will preserve it until after at least one chain of DB to get an extra one in.
Preparedness- requires 15 Trickery; increases max initiative by 3i, which doesn't seem much but it will get you another DB without waiting.
Opportunist- +1i^crit (20% chance). requires 15 Critical Strikes and is the greatest gap-closer skill if you're running out of initiative too quickly.
Signet Use- requires 20 Critical Strikes and returns 2i every  signet use. This is useful since you will have three signets on your bar, generally.

Hi there...I don't quite get this... you're saying that the important traits are these ones, but then you have a thing for high-powered crits that has a trait allocation of 20 (VI, IX)/30 (III, X, XII)/20(V, III)/0/0 meaning it's impossible to get a trait like Kleptomaniac...and the 20/30/20/0/0 is different than the link supplied...

Thanks for any help!

~Stu

#435 Edbert

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:03 AM

View PostStuligan, on 24 December 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

Hi there...I don't quite get this... <snip>...and the 20/30/20/0/0 is different than the link supplied...
This thread is several months old, and has been through a few nerfs or changes in the proffessions.

These forums could use a PVx style listing if you ask me, where players can rate a build and mark them as obsolete when AN changes stuff.

#436 Thorfinnr

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:55 PM

Hey Minion!

I know things have changed recently with some updates...could you do a quick refresh on what Armor (Rampagers/Carrion/etc.), Runes(Armor), Weapons (Beserker/etc.) and Sigils(Weapons) you suggest.

Sigils for Weapon Sets I would suggest(based on what I have seen most people using for this build):

D/D

P/P

D/P

SB

Thanks...just trying to keep up and help keep it easy for others to get the best suggestions.

Edited by Thorfinnr, 26 December 2012 - 05:57 PM.


#437 Minion

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:30 AM

View PostEdbert, on 26 December 2012 - 01:03 AM, said:

This thread is several months old, and has been through a few nerfs or changes in the proffessions.

These forums could use a PVx style listing if you ask me, where players can rate a build and mark them as obsolete when AN changes stuff.

This is correct. The OP is largely outdated, regardless of my efforts to update, because I'm a lazy bastard. My playstyle has changed dramatically since launch, because condition damage and Death Blossom are wank, in reality. I'm using something more similar to Shadow's thread. 25/30/0/15/0, sigil of accuracy, full eagle runes, executioner, dual daggers and shortbow (still backstabbin')  berserker armour/ruby jewlz (tank for nabs who can't dodge).

Anyway, this thread can be locked and I shall redirect you to the fabulous Shadow's build.FYI, sword/pistol is still shit and mob is still a cluster of enemies under the same aggro bubble. Have a nice day.~HM

http://www.guildwars...-a-basic-guide/

Edited by Minion, 27 December 2012 - 09:50 AM.


#438 Orpheo Lyra

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:55 PM

View PostMinion, on 27 December 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

My playstyle has changed dramatically since launch, because condition damage and Death Blossom are wank[...]

Curiously I cant live without DB, nothing else seems to kill as fast when facing a mob of several Risen. Closest I came across was Pistol Whip/Haste but the AoE range is so small in comparison and Haste has a long cooldown and you're a sitting duck to anything not in melee range

Edited by Orpheo Lyra, 27 December 2012 - 09:56 PM.


#439 The Shadow

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:19 PM

View PostMinion, on 27 December 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

This is correct. The OP is largely outdated, regardless of my efforts to update, because I'm a lazy bastard. My playstyle has changed dramatically since launch, because condition damage and Death Blossom are wank, in reality. I'm using something more similar to Shadow's thread. 25/30/0/15/0, sigil of accuracy, full eagle runes, executioner, dual daggers and shortbow (still backstabbin')  berserker armour/ruby jewlz (tank for nabs who can't dodge).

Anyway, this thread can be locked and I shall redirect you to the fabulous Shadow's build.FYI, sword/pistol is still shit and mob is still a cluster of enemies under the same aggro bubble. Have a nice day.~HM

http://www.guildwars...-a-basic-guide/

So this is why my thread's received over 10k views in the past week. We should make a collaborative thread and compile ideas :D

#440 Al Shamari

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:41 PM

View PostThe Shadow, on 28 December 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:

So this is why my thread's received over 10k views in the past week. We should make a collaborative thread and compile ideas :D
I dig this idea, as well. As a Thief it would be nice to have a solid group of players collaborating ideas and coming up with solid build structures together!

Anyways, at Minion's request I'm going to lock this thread and everyone should go visit Shadow's Basic Thief Guide!

Minion, if you would ever like this topic opened back up, just send me a shout!




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