Jump to content

  • Curse Sites
Help
- - - - -

Power or condition dmg?


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 Seipher09

Seipher09

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 136 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 01:00 PM

I really enjoy playing with dual weilding swords however I feel I barely do any dmg with my swords. What should I be using? All power? Power + precesion? Power + condition dmg? All condition dmg?

Where will I get the most dmg out of my swords if im facing just single target enemies such as bosses or even bandits just 1v1.

Please help me out here! I am level 25 right now also.

#2 Perval

Perval

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 273 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 01:50 PM

As a Sword (and assumedly Rifle?) build, you're built around dealing dot condition damage.  Power will affect a damage increase in everything that you do.  Condition damage will increase the damage of your Bleed dots.  Both are wanted stats for that kind of build.  (I'm also assuming that you've taken the Arms 10 pt trait choice that extends your Bleed dot duration.)

Precision is nice, but I wouldn't suggest focusing on it for your build.  Unless they changed something towards the end of Beta, condition dot damage can't critically hit.  Therefore Precision is mostly worthless on a dot damage build.

#3 swarmofseals

swarmofseals

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 22 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 02:26 PM

View PostSeipher09, on 28 August 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

I really enjoy playing with dual weilding swords however I feel I barely do any dmg with my swords. What should I be using? All power? Power + precesion? Power + condition dmg? All condition dmg?

Where will I get the most dmg out of my swords if im facing just single target enemies such as bosses or even bandits just 1v1.

Please help me out here! I am level 25 right now also.


I assume you are referring to stats from gear, as trait lines are a much more complex question. Just looking at the raw numbers, somewhere between 50% and 66% or so of your sword damage is coming from bleeds. In reality, however, I think it's lower than this because of two reasons:

1. For small monsters, the monster dies long before all of your bleeds finish
2. For large monsters, there are usually enough players around to hit the 25 bleed cap, therefore some of your bleeds just don't even take effect.

Either way, a lot of your potential bleed damage just isn't happening. For that reason I'd suggest focusing more on Power than on Condition Damage.

This is for world pve by the way -- in pvp or in dungeons you might want a different approach.

#4 renroval

renroval

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 237 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 02:50 PM

There's a bleed cap? Never knew that. Thanks for sharing that information.

#5 swarmofseals

swarmofseals

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 22 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 03:39 PM

View Postrenroval, on 28 August 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

There's a bleed cap? Never knew that. Thanks for sharing that information.

Yeah, as far as I can tell a target can have a maximum of 25 stacks of bleed. Unfortunately that's 25 total stacks, not 25 stacks per attacker! So as soon as you get 2-3 people who are specced into bleeds hitting the same target, you start running into the cap.

#6 Seipher09

Seipher09

    Asuran Acolyte

  • Members
  • 136 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 05:34 PM

Alrighty I will try staking some more power and hopefully I will end up doing a little more dmg

Edited by Seipher09, 28 August 2012 - 05:35 PM.


#7 Dixa

Dixa

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 232 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 06:28 PM

View Postswarmofseals, on 28 August 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

I assume you are referring to stats from gear, as trait lines are a much more complex question. Just looking at the raw numbers, somewhere between 50% and 66% or so of your sword damage is coming from bleeds. In reality, however, I think it's lower than this because of two reasons:

1. For small monsters, the monster dies long before all of your bleeds finish
2. For large monsters, there are usually enough players around to hit the 25 bleed cap, therefore some of your bleeds just don't even take effect.

Either way, a lot of your potential bleed damage just isn't happening. For that reason I'd suggest focusing more on Power than on Condition Damage.

This is for world pve by the way -- in pvp or in dungeons you might want a different approach.

bleeds run their duration even solo since they ar 3-6s long. they only stack in intensity not duration. you get 4-5 bleeds on the first one still drops in 6 seconds so you are getting full duration on a few of them

however warriors are the only class that can get 100% crit rate by level 20 with just a modest amount of precision on gear. because of this (the 5 signet build) there is no reason to go for a condition build for a long, long time

#8 swarmofseals

swarmofseals

    Fahrar Cub

  • Members
  • 22 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 07:36 PM

View PostDixa, on 28 August 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

bleeds run their duration even solo since they ar 3-6s long. they only stack in intensity not duration. you get 4-5 bleeds on the first one still drops in 6 seconds so you are getting full duration on a few of them

however warriors are the only class that can get 100% crit rate by level 20 with just a modest amount of precision on gear. because of this (the 5 signet build) there is no reason to go for a condition build for a long, long time

I'm not so sure about that. Maybe against veterans, but my time to kill on normal monsters is easily short of 8 seconds which means that only the first few bleeds tick all the way through. Granted fights might get longer as you level up, which would increase the relative effectiveness of bleeds when soloing/small grouping.

Honestly one of the sweetest things about warriors imo is that right now the vast majority of specs start the same way: 10 points in arms. Even if you are building towards a condition damage spec, you want to build up the arms tree first. So you can very easily go arms up to deep strikes running direct damage weapons and then swap over to bleed at later levels without having to respec.

#9 Dixa

Dixa

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 232 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 07:42 PM

View Postswarmofseals, on 28 August 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

I'm not so sure about that. Maybe against veterans, but my time to kill on normal monsters is easily short of 8 seconds which means that only the first few bleeds tick all the way through. Granted fights might get longer as you level up, which would increase the relative effectiveness of bleeds when soloing/small grouping.

Honestly one of the sweetest things about warriors imo is that right now the vast majority of specs start the same way: 10 points in arms. Even if you are building towards a condition damage spec, you want to build up the arms tree first. So you can very easily go arms up to deep strikes running direct damage weapons and then swap over to bleed at later levels without having to respec.

warriors have the shortest ttk in pve of all the classes. as i said in my second paragraph there is no point to a condition build for warriors.

hundred blades needs it's cooldown doubled. that alone would put the class more in line with the others.

#10 geala

geala

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 292 posts
  • Server:Elona Reach

Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:37 PM

It makes no sense to recommend greatsword, a rather problematic weapon later on, when the OP likes to play with double swords.

@ OP: you should do what Perval said. Swords, especially the offhand, are about conditions. The direct damage is not minuscule but not the most important part. The most obvious "condition tree" is the Arms line. Fights with swords last a little bit longer than with greatsword or axe, so your bleeds will tick to the end. If not, where is the problem when the mob is dead? The most important stats for a sword build would be + condition damage, toughness and a bit of power. Later you can go also into precision and take on crit bleed sigils. Sigil of Earth has a two second internal cd but is still ok with Flurry and the #1 skill. Using the 100% crit chance build with sigils will only lead to bad habit, you should stay away from it.

Edited by geala, 29 August 2012 - 12:39 PM.


#11 Lord_Demosthene

Lord_Demosthene

    Sylvari Specialist

  • Members
  • 507 posts

Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:44 PM

View PostPerval, on 28 August 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

As a Sword (and assumedly Rifle?) build, you're built around dealing dot condition damage.  Power will affect a damage increase in everything that you do.  Condition damage will increase the damage of your Bleed dots.  Both are wanted stats for that kind of build.  (I'm also assuming that you've taken the Arms 10 pt trait choice that extends your Bleed dot duration.)

Precision is nice, but I wouldn't suggest focusing on it for your build.  Unless they changed something towards the end of Beta, condition dot damage can't critically hit.  Therefore Precision is mostly worthless on a dot damage build.

Quite the contrary, Precision is a critical stat for condition-oriented builds, which invariably suck without 60%+ critical rate, major investment in Arms traitline and sigil of earth on your primary weapon (no, these don't stack, so pick something else for offhand e.g. sigil of blood). Power + Condition build is a proven failure, because it neither has the necessary condition damage, nor the direct, physical damage output.

Why is that? Highest physical DPS comes from high base attack, high critical rate and high critical damage, proccing various damage sigils on the way with every crit. Highest dot DPS comes from high condition damage, high critical rate and all the necessary sigils that go with it (sigil of earth is best; condition duration is of secondary importance to crit chance and condition damage).

When it comes to condition builds, you further have to account for the fact that unless you spam your first skill on rifle/sword MH weapon, you won't dish out any bleeds without major investment in Arms trait, sufficient crit rate and sigil of earth with all your other attacks, which you will have to use, one way or another (cripple to neutralise target, vulnerability to call a target, movement skills etc.).

Addendum:

Generalising, there are three main types of builds at the moment for Warriors:

a) Power + Precision DPS
B) Power + Toughness/Vitality (direct damage with CC-oriented weapons, survivability or team support with banners/shouts)
c) Precision + Condition DPS

A) and c) are your glass cannons, a) being more burst-oriented than the pressure-oriented c). B) builds work surprisingly well, because the damage isn't spread between physical damage and conditions (like with longbow, sword, rifle), but is a purely physical damage, allowing a limited burst utility with intelligence sigils on swapping and mild investment in the discipline tree.

Given how condition damage is spread over time and that people quickly reach the cap of bleeding stacks allowed on a single target, condition build might not be optimal for general PvE (DEs, world bosses), but shouldn't be handicapped in the instanced dungeons and personal storyline.

Overall, though, if you want a superior solution to your every PvE problem, roll with Power + Precision DPS build and use rifle (with swap to your preferred melee weapon, giving you some survivability) or Power + Toughness/Vitality survivability/support-oriented build instead, as these are cookie-cutter build types at the moment.

PS. Avoid using 'volley' on dedicated, dot DPS builds, auto-attack is still better.
PS2. Corrected some mistakes.

Edited by Lord_Demosthene, 29 August 2012 - 02:04 PM.


#12 Perval

Perval

    Vanguard Scout

  • Members
  • 273 posts

Posted 29 August 2012 - 01:49 PM

View PostLord_Demosthene, on 29 August 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

Quite the contrary, Precision is a critical stat for condition-oriented builds, which invariably suck without 60%+ critical rate, major investment in Arms traitline and sigil of earth on your primary weapon (no, these don't stack, so pick something else for offhand e.g. sigil of blood). Power + Condition build is a proven failure, because it neither has the necessary condition damage, nor the direct, physical damage output.

Interesting.  I never knew that, but I've also had no desire to make a condition build during Beta.  Obviously this must be the reason that my Jeweler can make pieces of combo +Precision / +Condition gear in the T2 crafting bracket.  Hmm...  It's interesting food for thought.

#13 omgyams

omgyams

    Pale Tree Seedling

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:24 PM

I just dinged 20 and I'm running with a Rifle & Sword/Axe. I've invested all of my points so far into the Arms tree, and just picked up the crazy precision trait effectively giving me 90+% Crit.

I typically open with the rifle, then when the mob gets close I'll pretty much always kill it with a whirling axe and/or flurry. As for gear it's pretty evenly mixed between precision, power and condition dmg. I would like to move toward precision/power build.

Hoping someone can help me with a few questions relevant to this thread:
  • With a precision/power build in mind should I be using a rifle or a longbow? The rifle does have a bleed autoattack, but volley is really effective. Also the longbow autoattack is split into 2 seperate hits - why is this?
  • With a precision/power build in mind would axe/axe be a smart choice? I really like the whirlwind a lot, and I think swapping my sword for another axe would give me the best direct DPS.
  • I'm basically a glass cannon at this point and I don't have a clear understanding on how armor/toughness/vitality influence my ability to mitigate damage - can someone point me to a good article that breaks these down? The goal for me would be to arm myself with enough information to slide my power/defense to where I need it to be so I'm killing fast enough while being able to take some damage.

Edited by omgyams, 29 August 2012 - 03:24 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users