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Looking For Groups is Seriously Lacking


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#61 Juanele

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 08:17 AM

I've given up trying to find a pug for dungeons a long time ago. Just not worth the 2 to 3 hours waiting trying to form the party. But I haven't tried since the 3rd party website gw2lfg.com came active, so maybe it's a bit easier now.

#62 Gilles VI

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:47 AM

View PostDaesu, on 02 January 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

Probably OT, but looking at how people dumped theirs after yours with a cheaper price (qty: 29,34,44,31,..etc) to undercut you, it is going to quite awhile before you see the returns to all of that.

True but not so long, krait weapons turn over very fast because of all the demand, people use it to gamble for legendaries.

#63 Kaguchan

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:54 AM

get over it, GW2 doesn't have a LFG, get used to gw2lfg.com.

Edited by Kaguchan, 02 January 2013 - 09:55 AM.


#64 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:08 AM

I think A.Net needs to accept that GW2 as a single player game is a boring and tedious experience. Thus the only way to enjoy it is by playing in a group which means they need to force players to party. And that means that they need to look into finding ways to make this forced grouping as painless as possible.
This means they would need to look into armour repairs, waypoint fees, a system that announces DEs, cross-server playing, server switching, under-flow servers, LFG, ... A lot of the things they are charging extra for - be it in-game gold or actual cash are things that shouldn't be looked at as optional or something players can opt out of - they are mandatory for the game to function and as such they should REALLY think twice if they want to attach a punishment to it for choosing to do them.

It seems that their approach to GW2 is that it's basically a single-player game with ANY sort of a multi-player experience being just a bonus, which means that the fact that players need to jump through hoops to get this multi-player experience isn't REALLY problematic.

#65 MrForz

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:31 PM

I wouldn't mind trading some 'immersion' for 'much less annoyance'. A LFT window will do, tick that box, write what you're looking foward to/how many members you need for your team, and go do what you were looking to do during that time instead of turning your thumbs in Lion's Arch/the zone related to your activity.

#66 zwei2stein

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:49 PM

View PostRickter, on 28 December 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

hey guys, i want to kindly suggest you al ltake some time and review the community spotlight post provided to you by Guru:

http://www.guildwars...ight-gw2lfgcom/

ive personally used the site for all of my dungeon grouping needs and in many ways it is faster than an in game lfg tool.

the more that utilize it, the better it is :)

No.

The less that use it the better. That site needs to die. Preferably in flames.

Game needs working ingame system. And having third party surrogate for it makes it less accute problem for anet to solve, which is bad because as long at it works, motivation to fix dungeon grouping is going to be low and discussions can be ended by providing this link.

I am avoiding tihs site like plague for this reason and discourage people from using it: This bandaid delays solution to problem.

If you have trouble fining group, solution is not to use gw2lfg, but to post on (official) forum that grouping tool is completelly useless and how it affects your experience.

Using gw2lfg is like giving man a fish. Working group finder in game is teaching people fishing.

#67 rukh

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 04:24 PM

Whatever technical problem they are having with implementing guesting might also be preventing them from doing cross-world grouping.  Since a LFG/DF tool for one's home world only is a half assed solution (especially for low pop servers), maybe they are waiting until the guesting and world transfer stuff is worked out.

#68 Dasryn

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:41 PM

View Postzwei2stein, on 02 January 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

which is bad because as long at it works

wait, if it works, then whats the problem?

View Postzwei2stein, on 02 January 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

Using gw2lfg is like giving man a fish. Working group finder in game is teaching people fishing.

. . . . no.  gw2lfg is actually a little more thought provoking than hitting a queue up button in game.  in fact, i would go as far to say that an in game lfg tool is a very lazy way of finding groups.  with gw2lfg.com, you actually post an advertisement for yourself, in game lfg tool you just click queue.

Edited by Rickter, 02 January 2013 - 09:49 PM.


#69 zwei2stein

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:28 AM

View PostRickter, on 02 January 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

wait, if it works, then whats the problem?

* limited to people who know about it
* 3rd party tool that can disappear anytime
* not as featured as possible ingame finder (whisper to lfger in one click, invite to party in one click, automated teleport of party to destination regardless of whenever you are...)

View PostRickter, on 02 January 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

. . . . no.  gw2lfg is actually a little more thought provoking than hitting a queue up button in game.  in fact, i would go as far to say that an in game lfg tool is a very lazy way of finding groups.  with gw2lfg.com, you actually post an advertisement for yourself, in game lfg tool you just click queue.

Lazy tool is great tool. Lazy tool is awesome tool.

I do not see what is thought provoking about writing a bit of text - you are not writing essay, you are just describing character, something that can be copypasted over and over - and is most likely exactly same as numeous other players

If hitting queue is all you need, anything over that is pointless.

Lets see those personal descriptions:

lf3m cof path 1 and 2 quick run :)
LFM Cof p1 and p2 speed runs
LF1M PATH 1/2!!! =)
LF 3 More Tixx
LF3M FoTM 2
PATH 1 /2!!! =)
LFG 35
LFG Exp Mode All Path
LF1M Need overflow
FoTM 10 to 21

Wow! It would be real shame if working lfg system eliminated those beautiful personal messages full of wit and thought provoking charm!

#70 Dasryn

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:40 AM

View Postzwei2stein, on 03 January 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

* limited to people who know about it
* 3rd party tool that can disappear anytime
* not as featured as possible ingame finder (whisper to lfger in one click, invite to party in one click, automated teleport of party to destination regardless of whenever you are...)



Lazy tool is great tool. Lazy tool is awesome tool.

I do not see what is thought provoking about writing a bit of text - you are not writing essay, you are just describing character, something that can be copypasted over and over - and is most likely exactly same as numeous other players

If hitting queue is all you need, anything over that is pointless.

Lets see those personal descriptions:

lf3m cof path 1 and 2 quick run :)
LFM Cof p1 and p2 speed runs
LF1M PATH 1/2!!! =)
LF 3 More Tixx
LF3M FoTM 2
PATH 1 /2!!! =)
LFG 35
LFG Exp Mode All Path
LF1M Need overflow
FoTM 10 to 21

Wow! It would be real shame if working lfg system eliminated those beautiful personal messages full of wit and thought provoking charm!

with gw2lfg, you can actually differentiate those that want and expect a speed run and those that dont want to skip kohler etc. . . its those personalized messages that make the search more specific than queueing up in an in game lfg tool.

example:  "LF3M AC Exp P2 - not skipping kohler - clearing most mobs"

so now i know that this particular group is doing path 2 and they intend on not skipping kohler and do intend on clearing most trash mobs.  if this is a fit for me, i message ad owner in game.  uh yeah, i would be willing to bet that gw2lfg will continue to be used even if an ingame lfg tool is implemented.  i suggest you stop being a shrew ad realize that gw2lfg is in fact one of the most ingenious third party tools to be invented in the mmorpg genre.

and i didnt say it was writing an essay, look at what i wrote, i said "its a little more thought provoking than just hitting a queue button" - which it is.  making a specific personalized message as to the nature of the group of people you are looking for is much more thought provoking now that i think about it.

way to twist my words pal. . ..

Edited by Rickter, 03 January 2013 - 11:42 AM.


#71 Hellspawn2323

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:26 PM

View PostMastruq, on 01 January 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

Yea I pretty much agree with all that except, as said above, a lfg tool is not the same as the WoW dungeon finder, and I wouldnt want the WoW dungeon finder ever again. Here's the difference:

- the LFG tool is supposed to help me find other players that want to do the same content I want to do through search filters. You still have to communicate with those players beforehand and can decide if you want to play with them or not.

- WoW dungeon finder lets you set filters for what you want to do (with an incentive for saying "eh I'll do whatever, more loot"), and then throws you in with 4 others you havent had a chance to even talk to before accepting, resulting in oh so many horrible experiences.

I do want it to be easier to form groups, but I still want to decide for myself who I join up with. I think that and in the case of WoW the "porting to dungeon" (which is irrelevant in GW2) are the two reasons it is that disliked.

Too be honest ill take a quick launch LFG tool over social interaction if that means I wont have to be standing in Lions Arch for an hour typing LFG FOTM LvL 5 Need 3 More. because everyones progression is so far and inbettewen. Plus its not easy too interact with players cross realm if your at the dungeon portal also trying to LFG... Someone having too port too Org too grab overflow players and someone at the dungeon entrance is obnoxious and until some beter system of pick up and play is introduced I wont be playing GW2 its a dediest chore atm...

Also Id like to point out I played in WoW since vanilla pre LFD tool and back when I was forced too interact with players It wasnt any more enjoyable then when they introduced LFD tool. I wasnmt making friends hand over fist I just wanted players to complete a dungeon with. I think new MMO gamers treat the game like its a facebook community. I dont need 500 friends on my WoW or GW2 friends list. Im very happy with the 20 close MMO gaming friends I have and when there offline and I wanna run dungeons I honestly dont care who I pair up with nore am I seeking new friends. Im there too play the game....

Edited by Hellspawn2323, 03 January 2013 - 01:27 PM.


#72 Mastruq

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 04:35 PM

Well that's exactly my point: I dont want to idle in LA to form a group, I dont want to idle in front of the dungeon. Worst of both I miss the players choosing to idle at the other location.

I want this lfg tool:

You have an icon next to the heart of the mists icon in the main menus instead of hiding it in the contacts. I want that menu to have a checkboxes for all dungeon paths and fractal levels, open world activities and various PvP stuff. Check what you like, maybe have a line for free text at the end. Then others can filter based on what they want to do (from anywhere in the world, not only from towns) and talk to the people that actually list themselves as lfg for the same activity.

Now if there are still problems with that maybe tell me what you dont like about it, but for me thats all I need or want. Like I said, imo automatic group forming without you having the chance to talk to the other people you are being grouped with causes all the Dungeon Finder problems, so I dont go that far with my suggestion.

#73 Red Sonya

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 05:15 AM

View PostItharius, on 28 August 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

Tonight I'm running Ascalonian Catacombs with my guildmates. It really feels like vanilla WoW where you actually had to organize a group of people to take on group content, and I like it. I think a dungeon finder would break immersion and would dumb down the social aspect of the game. Dungeons are meant to be guild fare, and it's very easy in this game to find an active guild, even to be in multiple guilds.

That's the most rediculous stupid moronic thing I've ever read "Dungeons are meant to be guild fare" where in the hell did any DEVS say that? Next thing you'll say is it's in the TITLE of the game but the title is from the LORE story of the game not the way you should or have to play.

#74 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 08:36 AM

View PostRed Sonya, on 04 January 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

That's the most rediculous stupid moronic thing I've ever read "Dungeons are meant to be guild fare" where in the hell did any DEVS say that? Next thing you'll say is it's in the TITLE of the game but the title is from the LORE story of the game not the way you should or have to play.

Actually, I think they said something in the lines of 95% or so game being easy, while dungeons are supposed to be hard and left to organized, guild teams.
There's nothing wrong with that idea itself - the issue is that there is no alternative to this content, which means that the game is now excluding the majority of the players from the ONLY rewarding content in the game. Sure, create super hard content - but only if you have that as an alternative, rather as the only option.

#75 Arquenya

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 08:47 AM

View PostProtoss, on 04 January 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

Actually, I think they said something in the lines of 95% or so game being easy, while dungeons are supposed to be hard and left to organized, guild teams.
There's nothing wrong with that idea itself - the issue is that there is no alternative to this content, which means that the game is now excluding the majority of the players from the ONLY rewarding content in the game. Sure, create super hard content - but only if you have that as an alternative, rather as the only option.
But Protoss, dungeons aren't hard to complete - thanks to the waypoints within them. If there weren't waypoints then I might agree with you (and I'd definitely love to have a few FoW like dungeons without waypoints added to the game).

As it is now though, you really have to wipe like 30 times to not make them worth your while, which really never happens. Perhaps only if a team with 5 inexperienced players decides to do some of the harder dungeons without knowing the "tricks".

Edited by Arquenya, 04 January 2013 - 08:59 AM.


#76 Baron von Scrufflebutt

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:00 AM

View PostArquenya, on 04 January 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

But Protoss, dungeons aren't hard to complete - thanks to the waypoints within them. If there weren't waypoints then I might agree with you. But as it is now, you really have to wipe like 30 times to not make them worth your while, which really never happens.

Even without waypoints dungeons are basically about figuring out the gimmick behind the difficulty. It's very much Urgoz's Necrotic Traversal or Deep's KD - if you are unable to counter some random gimmick, then you fail.
But once you figure out the gimmick, all difficulty is lost.

I remember doing the Howling King in AC for the first time and how I thought I'll never be able to finish that without constantly dying and then I was told to simply dance behind his back. And all difficulty was lost.



Still, regardless of A.Net's inability to create challenging content, I think they still meant it that way and it fits into their "no grind" philosophy. If it's "optional" it can be as dumb-ass shitty as they want it to be. So they simply made dungeons optional. You don't need to do this content, so the fact that it's seriously lacking doesn't mean much because ... you don't need to do this content.
It's the same reason why I had issue with this idea in GW1 and I still have it. Instead of actually fixing shit, they simply make it optional.

#77 Arquenya

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:11 AM

View PostProtoss, on 04 January 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

Even without waypoints dungeons are basically about figuring out the gimmick behind the difficulty. It's very much Urgoz's Necrotic Traversal or Deep's KD - if you are unable to counter some random gimmick, then you fail.
But once you figure out the gimmick, all difficulty is lost.
I remember doing the Howling King in AC for the first time and how I thought I'll never be able to finish that without constantly dying and then I was told to simply dance behind his back. And all difficulty was lost.

Still, regardless of A.Net's inability to create challenging content, I think they still meant it that way and it fits into their "no grind" philosophy. If it's "optional" it can be as dumb-ass shitty as they want it to be. So they simply made dungeons optional. You don't need to do this content, so the fact that it's seriously lacking doesn't mean much because ... you don't need to do this content.
It's the same reason why I had issue with this idea in GW1 and I still have it. Instead of actually fixing shit, they simply make it optional.
Yes I agree that I'm also a bit disappointed by a lot of GW2's dungeons' design. It seems to be very hard to make challenging content without falling back to implementing "tricks", that once people have figured out and posted on wikis and other sources on the internet, more or less become very easy (or at least doable). But also restrictive, as usually only one tactic or build works.

I always hoped for random content so it's always a surprise what you're going to face. And I loved the FoW kind of dungeon, where there was a lot of room for player skill and teamwork and on the fly improvisation. Something like FoW with randomized mobs and bosses seems like the perfect kind of dungeon to me.

But well, that's outside the scope of this thread.

Edited by Arquenya, 04 January 2013 - 09:53 AM.


#78 protoman7

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 06:21 PM

I think part of the fun in dungeons is looking for a group.  yes, it is a little difficult if people aren't in the usual places (in front of the dungeon or in LA), but those are the days I log off and do something for a little before coming back and trying again.  I agree with a couple of the people here that a fully functioning dungeon finder might take away from the game.  

I think what would be good is a slightly dumb'd down version that allows you to select dungeon(s) you would like to participate in and it basically puts you into a list.  This list would then be visible to anyone else looking for people to run dungeons with and they could just scroll through the list looking for a viable candidate. This can easily be done by making the list include the characters name, class, lvl (although this usually won't matter), current party size, and any comments like "looking for a speed run" or "first time in this dungeon" to allow for people to choose more appropriately.

I am not sure if this has already been said, but I think this would be a good compromise with what is currently in place (ultimately nothing) and a full fledged dungeon finder.  Being a programmer I know the type of work that goes into these types of things that the average player does not and I think a compromise of such would make both worlds happy (designer and player).

#79 Age

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:33 AM

That is the great thing about GW being on 1 live server as it doesn't take long to get a dungeon group together.




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