20 replies to this topic

[Gregor Sabetin]

Ok the Prestige is nice but I just can't find a way to use the Phantasmal Mage. Sorry if my question is silly but is that skill really worthless? Thanks for sharing your knowledge

[Lastchime]

It's alright with a sword main, it conjures a ways back out of melee and it's unlikely to pull agg. Shatters as good as anything o/c.

[Skyro]

iMage only seems useful paired with a Scepter MH in a confusion-based build as the only redeeming quality of the iMage is that the confusion it inflicts is really long (9 sec) which helps keep your own stronger confusion stack from dropping off.

The Prestiege is great but Decoy can fill a similar role and can be paired with any weapon combination or build.

[Torden]

Lastchime, on 29 August 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

it conjures a ways back out of melee

I haven't tried this, but I would imagine if you were fighting with sword you could hit #3, Distortion shatter the melee clone, and by the time the iMage runs to the target the first Distortion should be over for another second of Distortion? (i.e. 2x the distortion time of two melee phastasm/clones).

Not sure if I'd want to build around that though...

Edited by Torden, 29 August 2012 - 07:23 PM.

[Draegan]

The torch is probably the worst weapon and most underpowered.

[EasymodeX]

^

Yeah, I think the weapon is disjointed.  The abilities are 99% condition damage, with bonus defensive stealth.

However, most Mesmer condition builds already seem very survivable, so the bonus stealth becomes excessive.  Mesmer burst builds seem more fragile, but these trend to power, which makes most of Torch weak.  I suppose a Mesmer power build would also include a decent amount of Condition Duration, so the total effect of Torch would still be solid.  Retaliation would be potent as well.

Hmm, maybe not as bad ... ?

[Babe]

The mage needs to put enough stacks to rival the damage of other phantasms, which means its single stack should go up to around five or six.

Edited by Babe, 29 August 2012 - 07:35 PM.

[Hotcake]

The iMage's confusion/retaliation in conjunction with Scepter #3 is extremely powerful.  A lot of people underestimate the torch, but confusion hits HARD when stacked - especially when you have retaliation as well.

Edited by Hotcake, 29 August 2012 - 07:42 PM.

[Draegan]

Well my main problem with the Torch is the stealth is channeled and if you break it early, you lose the burn.  I should be able to pop in and out of it for the AOE burn whenever I want instead of waiting around for it to go off.

Confusion is ok, but for me it's great for only secondary damage.  I really don't want to have to wait around to get attacked in PVE to do damage (I'm squishy enough), and it PVP confusion is easily avoided if the player is smart.  How do you miss the giant purple ring around your screen?

[Necro]

the trick with confusion is to try to either get them to miss (dodge, block) or to get them to attack someone else, me, i use a heavy clone build and try and get them to attack the clones which i can quickly reproduce.

[darkblue]

iMage does indirect damage ... and indirect damage is hard to balance with direct one.
One confusion stack does not deal a lot but the condition does last a lot.
And then there is the AoE retaliation which is in theory a fantastic tool for AoE indirect damage something that a lot of people don't see.

The problem is that the bounce range is not that big.
IMO they should increase it and probably make it confuse twice for 5s instead but it's still a lot better than what we expect already.

[Mugen]

After the prestige nerf I doubt many people use the torch; haven't seen a single mesmer that does.

[Garethh]

Skyro, on 29 August 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

stops your own stronger confusion stack from dropping off.

That's not how confusion or even any condition works in this game....
Each application of the condition's timer is calculated and run threw seperately.  
No condition you apply can ever effect the duration of another... stacking long confusions on top of short ones won't make the short ones take any longer to fall off the target.

Say you apply 10 stacks of confusion that last 3 seconds and one stack that lasts 9 a second later... the target will sit at that 10 stacks of confusion for a second, get bumped up to 11 for 2 seconds, but then the the 10 confusion stacks with the 3 second duration will fall of and leave the target at that 1 stack of confusion with the 9 second duration ticking out for its remaining 6 seconds...

If it wasn't like that and all types of a condition fell off at the longest application, bleeds would be obnoxiously powerful.   They would commonly and easily hit and stay at the 25 stack cap (2.5k~ dmg a second) shortly into combat... basically you would have to cleanse bleed dmg from any moderately bleed specced enemy, constantly, every fight or die... which is just retarded.

If you mean threw cleansing... removing 1 condition means removing all instances of 1 random type of condition that is on you, so if the cleanse ends up removing 'confusion' it will remove every application of confusion, 3 second duration and 9 second duration alike.

The torch phantasm is trash.

Edited by Garethh, 30 August 2012 - 07:51 AM.

[Garethh]

Mugen, on 30 August 2012 - 07:31 AM, said:

After the prestige nerf I doubt many people use the torch; haven't seen a single mesmer that does.

Its more that they left the phantasm completely mediocre... if they bumped it in return by making its confusion noteworthy or direct dmg good (like every other phantasm) it would still be used.  Prestige is still good, especially on the mesmer class.  Hiding in stealth is wonderful when you have phantasms and clones sitting out, wailing on a target.

Edited by Garethh, 30 August 2012 - 07:54 AM.

[Carighan]

I use Scepter+Torch a lot, and for a confusion-heavy setup with all the relevant traits it's quite ok.
But, and this is important, you don't want to be fought alone then. You become a skirmisher. A quite good one, the ability to heckle in that setup is amazing. But you can't ever do a fight alone or your best effects won't work out well.

[bonn]

The iMage needs to have a shorter cd and faster attack speed. I think 20s cd and 3s attack speed would make the phantasm a lot more valuable but not OP. This way if left by himself he can only get 3 stacks of confusion at once.

[Xalted]

Personally I use it as an extra clone to shatter until I can get the Dueling trait that generates clones when you dodge. It is kind of useless though, and The Prestige barely does enough damage to make te torch worth it. Sword offhand maybe a better option for scepter.

[SlimChance]

Yeah, I'm don't "get" the torch as well and its not just iMage.  The Prestige is backwards to me.  

Initially when turning invisible, you blind your foe.  (If I'm invisible, why do I need to blind.)

It makes more sense to light them on fire first, THEN when you return, you blind.

[azrael1213]

SlimChance, on 30 August 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

Yeah, I'm don't "get" the torch as well and its not just iMage.  The Prestige is backwards to me.  

Initially when turning invisible, you blind your foe.  (If I'm invisible, why do I need to blind.)

It makes more sense to light them on fire first, THEN when you return, you blind.

Agreed. That totally makes more sense. Also - why punish us for ending the Prestige early? Oftentimes my Blurred Frenzy is up and ready to go yet I have to wait and stand stupidly behind my foe before the duration ends.

[Caedanne]

I really want to like the torch, but I find it so underwhelming compared to our other off-hands...

I actually tried to use it on the last boss of Ascalonian Catacombs because "Hey, AoE Retaliation on all the party sounds very nice!" but I don't think a single person got the boon, not even me. I hope the abilities get tweaked somehow soon.

[Garethh]

SlimChance, on 30 August 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

Yeah, I'm don't "get" the torch as well and its not just iMage.  The Prestige is backwards to me.  

Initially when turning invisible, you blind your foe.  (If I'm invisible, why do I need to blind.)

It makes more sense to light them on fire first, THEN when you return, you blind.

It's like a pseudo dodge roll.
You see an eviscerate or cloak and dagger or heartseeker coming your way, pop the prestige, it misses and your clones/phantasms get a little alone time with your enemy

Edited by Garethh, 30 August 2012 - 03:33 PM.