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Whats the point of joining multiple guilds if they require you to represent theirs?

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#31 Fizzypop

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 04:46 PM

View Postrebalnz, on 30 August 2012 - 02:38 AM, said:

have to disagree on this. in the end its not your guild and the leader/s can set whatever rules they want. personally we have this in my guild aswell. because we dont wont heaps of people joining and then not chatting/contributing to the guild. im easy though i only need one guild and i am happy.

they can set the rules...I never said they couldn't. I did say it makes them creepy controlling weirdos who need to grow up.

View PostKraag_Deadsoul, on 30 August 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

Maybe because people are tired of guild leaders with Napoleon complexes who attempt to exert control over the lives of others through their position as guild leader?  That system has been tried and failed. Many people are fed up with the control freak guild leaders who create a guild for the personal sense of power it grants them rather than making the effort to build a community supportive of their membership.  I'm not saying this describes you personally as a guild leader nor does it describe every guild.  However, it describes enough guilds that ArenaNet saw fit to implement the multi-guild feature and give control to the guild membership rather than to the guild leaders.

It's a welcome change and frankly nobody's business which guild(s) anybody joins or who they represent.  Successful guilds will embrace this change and focus their efforts on building the best possible community that is supportive of their members rather than attempting to exert dictatorial control over them.  If you make it worthwhile for people to be in your guild, they will be more likely to stay and represent it.  Any attempt to restrict them will quite possibly result in lost members as they opt to join less restrictive guilds.  As the old saying goes, "You catch more flies with a teaspoon of honey than with a cup of vinegar."

Nicely said.

#32 Killminusnine

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 05:00 PM

View PostVampire Duzell, on 29 August 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:

I hate it when guilds say "You can join other guilds, but you must represent ours."
Then what's the point of joining multiple guilds? Maybe I have a guild with my friends from a different server, and maybe a guild that's in my server for WvW, and maybe you make your own guild just for fun. I hate having guilds whispering me saying to represent their guild. Now, I've just been playing as "invisible" so I can represent whatever guild and earn influence without having people spam me with "represent our guild" messages (although I can't read guild chat or talk in guild chat this way). If I am supposed to represent one guild 24/7, then there's no point in joining multiple guilds because all the other guilds would kick me anyways because almost all of the guilds I've been in have been like "represent us"

I can see the point in this for focused hardcore guilds.  They need the upgrades, they need your influence, and for they usually expect your undivided attention.  If you don't like their policy then don't join them at all and look at a more casual guild which is less restrictive... there are plenty of them out there recruiting.

Some guilds expect that you'll be dedicated to working soley with them and they won't even let you multi-guild at all.  Either way, they need the influence and they'll also need your gold later on when it comes time to take/upgrade/hold keeps in WvW.  You just need to decide which style of guild you want to enjoy... the choice is in your hands.  I doubt that you'll change a guild leaders mind by posting here.

#33 Leiloni

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 05:22 PM

I haven't run into this issue yet but I have noticed that on my unguilded alts, my main's guild still shows up in the guild window and I can see whose online in the roster and they can also see me on my alt, although it notes that I'm not representing. If I wanted peole to know who my alts were, I'd join the guild on my alt or put people on my friend's list. If I can sign into the game and be invisible I might just do that. I prefer to be more private both in games and in real life so this auto sharing BS is annoying. I already dislike how the friend's list works.

#34 Tregarde

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 07:28 PM

My guild has a pretty simple policy.

Members are free to represent any guild they are part of.

Officers must have at least some characters representing, and must spend time doing things with the guild.

Leaders must represent (if we didn't want to represent the guild, then why did we become leaders?)

#35 Arshay Duskbrow

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 07:36 PM

I'm going with my standard solution to all guild problems: being in a guild by myself. I did it for the vast majority of my seven-year GW1 career, and I'm sure as heck going to be sticking to it now that Anet has made it an even more legitimate option.

#36 Kraag_Deadsoul

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 08:33 PM

View PostDizzard, on 30 August 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

I do think it's something that evens the balance between guild leaders and members quite a bit though. It won't be enough to just demand 100% loyalty to your guild....you'll have to earn that 100% loyalty.

^ This.  It's one of the primary reasons for why influence and multi-guilding were implemented.  And, likewise, members will have to contribute at least part of the time to their guild if they expect to stay.  Now we have a balanced situation. :)

#37 Omedon

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 08:47 PM

View PostSheepski, on 30 August 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

2) Why should all the freedom be on the members' side...

Because that's the entire thrust of GW2: Personal empowerment.

As to the OP: Don't join the guild that demands representation.  They have every right to *make* that demand, and every right to "rule over a dead world" for making it.

This is how my guild handles it:


Multi-guilding:

This miraculous function, which allows you to join many guilds, choosing from moment to moment which to represent, chat with, and apply "influence" to, is supported and encouraged by the design of GW2, and we would be idiots to tell you (or even ask you) not to join other guilds. As a matter of fact, we would much rather you join guilds for specific, hardcore, team play interests (such as focusing on harder explorable mode dungeon runs or competitive PvP) than try to bend this guild's vision to fit those interests, and know that you will always be welcome to hang your hat here. This doesn't mean that we will never do things as a guild, and thus we ask, as a courtesy, that if and when you find yourself playing together with members of the guild, you shift your active guild to this one, so we may then logistically benefit from the communal fun we are having. This is not a rule or a mandate, but it is a request of courtesy. The leadership will almost definitely treat this guild as their default setting, but even the leadership have intentions to join other guilds if we see a good RP concept or extraneous interest group!

Edited by unraveled, 30 October 2012 - 10:12 AM.
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#38 Stimpson

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 09:16 PM

I am a member of 4 guilds myself. 1 is my main guild I represent most of the time. 2 of the others are WvW focused guilds and I represent them when I am running wvw with them (my main guild doesn't really have any wvw presence). And the 4th guild is one I created and only I am in. I represent myself from time to time and am very slowly building up my influence to get a guild bank to use as my personal bank. Even if you don't represent another guild (tell them if you joining and won't be representing at all or very often) you may want to be in another guild to see when they are online and where they are at. Maybe you want to run dungeons or wvw and noone in your guild is doing that right now. you can see if anyone in the other guild is.

Edited by Stimpson, 29 October 2012 - 09:18 PM.


#39 Ualtar

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 09:59 PM

View PostFizzypop, on 30 August 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

Because they are adults who bought this game to play? I don't need to be "allowed" to join other guilds nor do I need to clear it with others either. Seriously, it's just plain creepy to expect that kind of control over other people's behavior. Just assume the people will join more than one guild. That'll solve the problem right there.

You do realize that it has almost nothing to do with control right?  As a guild leader I put time into running the guild.  I look for people to recruit.  Even if I don't feel like it, I need to take time from my day every day to be on the guild forums and post on those forums.  I need to say hi and bye to everybody.  I need to quest with people in my guild.  So it is controlling if I just ask for a bit of common courtesy when people want to multi guild (which I don't mind by the way).

#40 Darkobra

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:12 PM

Be inviting. Not controlling. Your members will want to represent you. And if anyone ever demands anything from you, leave that guild. They need you and not the other way around.

#41 Little Bird

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:25 PM

A solution would be to make non representing members invisible to the guild list. Even if you have a representing character in the guild, somehow seeing a non-representing one is an insult.

I was invited to a guild during spvp and discovered they were based on a different server. I like the people in the guild but since they are in a different server we can't do anything together except maybe chance getting into spvp matches together.

I love my server so I'm not leaving it, that means I need to join another guild if I want a group to do activities with. Maybe they should disable the ability to recruit people from different servers.

Edited by Little Bird, 29 October 2012 - 11:26 PM.


#42 ilr

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:48 PM

Guilds that demand representation just end up looking Desperate.   It's not a good look


The REAL problem is that Anet never gave us the stupidest f***ing simple little option of being able to pick which Chat Channels we wanted enabled.  We have to represent a guild to see what other people are seeing in it?  NO, that's BAD.  Bad design that we had options around back when GW1 was still in development.  This isn't the dark ages, we can have multiple chat channels and a UI that lets us pick which ones we want visible or muted.  This is an incredibly simple little quality of life booster that makes a huge difference in any game even when the people using it end up making a ton of "mistells" through it.  Everyone makes a ton of mistells as it is under the current system so I see no possible argument against it.

Edited by ilr, 30 October 2012 - 12:58 AM.


#43 Omedon

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 12:26 AM

View PostLittle Bird, on 29 October 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

Even if you have a representing character in the guild, somehow seeing a non-representing one is an insult.

Only if you're ridiculously immature and insecure.  Don't think the game should be built around those types, to be honest.
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#44 Chocobo

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 12:33 AM

I suggested ages ago to allow different chat tabs to have different guild chats. A huge problem with representing is that you can't see chat for the guilds you aren't representing. It causes issues in communication and a disconnected feeling from the guild. I've had problems multiple times when I am talking to some people in another Guild and waiting for my other guild to sort out people to get ready for a dungeon or event or something. It'd be so nice if I could just click a different chat tab, see what has been going on in the other guild (If they are ready yet etc) and then swap back to my main chat to talk to my friends in my represented guild.

I know there is more issues regarding required representing, but the main one I think is communication. It needs to be fixed. I haven't found a use for extra chat tabs yet, this would solve that too.

#45 Al Shamari

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 12:57 AM

I think the whole idea is silly. In theory it seems like a good idea, but in practice it just seems silly. Especially since many are unaware of how the system works and there's really little explanation offered in-game. I wish they had simply stuck with the single guild system, or maybe set a cap of two guilds as a whole that you could swap back and forth between. For those wanting separate guilds for PvE and PvP functions.

#46 el hefe

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 01:02 AM

the point is to make it eaiser to manage your groups of friends.
-this guild is full of co-workers
-this one full of facebook friends
-this one full of people i know from other games
it allows you to stay in contact with all them.  and it's much easier than trying to remember 300 different character names on a friends list.  imo.

#47 Newsinz

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 01:23 AM

My Question would be... if you are in a guild with a bunch of friends, which I am, why wouldn't you and your friends join a bigger guild together as well?

That may of came out a little weird I guess... but Im trying to figure out how to word it.  I'll use my guild as an example:

Before the game came out we talked a bit about this.  We all went to PAX Prime together (2011) and were at the Guild Wars Panel when they talked about the multiple guild thing.  After the panel we talked and we all voiced the same concerns "what happens when other guilds get upset because you are representing another guild?"  We all decided that what we would do is keep our initial guild as an alt guild when we are leveling alts and we would strive to find a guild that truly represented our play styles and were understanding about it.  Now all of us live in the same city we have all known each other for 10+ years from high school or college and funny enough we all work together in telecommunications lol.

Now our schedules are crazy... there are weeks where we have worked 90 hours plus and have had a really hard time getting on and playing because lets face it when you work the kind of hours we work sometimes the only thing you are missing is sleep and TV so some weeks we dont log on at all.

Anyway, to make a long story short we all agreed that if we join another guild we would join all together but the guild would have to be understanding of our work schedules and our lives in general.  To this day we have not found a single guild on Stormbluff with mature players, the truly allows for casual play and understands that we cant be on every day.

It's annoying really...  but we all thought it would be silly for us to not all join a guild together ( other then our own guild ).  I just dont see why more people dont discuss doing this?  Anyway I really dont see a huge issue with multiple guilds representing each other... at all.  There shouldn't be an issue as long as ego doesn't get involved.

Either way if you are running with people from another guild and doing guild activities you should represent the guild you are currently playing with if you aren't then it should be the choice of the person not the guild who they decide to represent.

#48 Red_Falcon

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:43 AM

Ok here are my 2 cents on this.

A person needs at least 2-3 guilds, one for PvE, one for WvW, and one for sPvP.
As a matter of fact, guilds that "we focus on everything!11!ONE" suck at "everything".
So for instance if as a PvE guild you ask a member to not represent others it's like asking to not play WvW/sPvP.
Same if a WvW guild asked you to not represent others, how do you find people to play with for sPvP or PvE?

Don't let guilds dictate how you play your game.
GW2 isn't JUST one of those 3 aspect, it's ALL those aspects and no one should ever prevent you from enjoying either.

#49 Eliirae

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:46 AM

I have a different take on the whole guild thing.  I don't see guilds as a "competition" and I fail to see how I have a "duty" to do anything.  I see a guild as a community and as such I'll join the guild whose community I like best.  If that means I don't get -the best- WvW, PVP, dungeoning experience then fine, because in gw2 it doesn't mean a thing if I don't have that one piece of gear from a dungeon.

At the same time, however, I'm still of the mindset that you join one guild on one character, or you make the choice to join the same guild on multiple characters if they allow alts.  In another game like WoW or TOR I doubt guilds would allow you to constantly leave to join another guild for a few hours before leaving them and joining back, for example.

I see no problem with joining guild X with character A and guild Y with character B.  If the guild leader(s) ask, you can tell them you have multiple characters in different guilds, but as long as you are on character A you'll be representing guild X and when you're on B you will represent Y.  IMO that is a fair statement to make, and if the leader(s) have a problem with that, that's their own issue.

#50 turbo234

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 02:49 AM

I think it would be nice to allow all guilds to show up in chat at least, but only represent one at a time. Maybe give players the options to select which guilds show up in chat so it wouldn't blow up thier chat box if they're in too many.

#51 rebalnz

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:27 AM

tbh i don't think the system works at all. i kind of get the whole represent thing restricting benefits. and influence. but restricting chat aswell is a bit to far IMO. hate having to keep representing/stand down to chat to others.

#52 Evans

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:33 AM

I'm in 3 guilds atm, but honestly they're all just advanced friends lists. I've been representing one guild so far, but as far as rewards go I haven't seen a single benefit for my influence donations. Not overly concerned about that though.

I guess I'm going to move in a direction where I'll keep one guild as a casual friends thing, another for serieus dungeoning and a final one focussed on WvWvW, and then represent according to what i feel like doing that day.

If they don't like that, then there will be other fish in the pond to join.

#53 Kyonshee

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 08:53 AM

Haven't had trouble with it so far....have heard others about it though. Personally, I have my own guild with some family and friends and prefer to have any large influence gains be dedicated to that one(like running dungeons, the Letter of Commendation etc) and for conversation or simple leveling I represent the other one I joined for a lively guildchat. They make no problem of it.

#54 Naginto

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 10:37 AM

I started a small guild with real life friends. In the beginning we recruited actively, and added a few nice people and had a revolving door for others. We chose to change servers as a group because our PST members said they "didn't have enough people on during their play time". So we swapped off Sorrows End and moved to Anvil Rock.

This was wake up call for me, because we posted it in forums, put it into the Guild's message of the day etc etc for a week. When it came time to move 3 of those "recruited" members swapped servers and we had maybe 20 not bother to do so. Now I don't even recruit anymore. Those 20 were kicked about 2 weeks after the move, since why would anyone want to be in a guild they don't play with? These weren't people that chatted with other members anyway so it wasn't a "friends list" for them.

I never ask people to represent us - even though we are small so the upgrades come slowly (although I've dumped a ton of gold into Letters to advance our capabilities). I think the most ironic part of our experience so far, is those california people who never recruited anyone joined a WvW guild and never represent us at all any more lol.

Sad fact is, this topic is created in response to a horribly implemented game policy. People have the right to join multiple guilds, but I just wish any influence earned went to every guild you join. Also having a robust chat system would go a long way to fix this, and having alts not show on a roster would be great - I've never seen another MMO link your account itself as a guild ID tag - very stupid. Gamers love their privacy and as a guild leader I love people enjoying that privacy - too bad Anet wont let us.

Anyway long ago I realized we will stay a small guild built on a core of real life friends. So now to meet other people I try to do Mad King and other dungeons with PUGs and I've made a lot of friends that way.

#55 Kyonshee

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 12:28 PM

View PostNaginto, on 30 October 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

I started a small guild with real life friends. In the beginning we recruited actively, and added a few nice people and had a revolving door for others. We chose to change servers as a group because our PST members said they "didn't have enough people on during their play time". So we swapped off Sorrows End and moved to Anvil Rock.

This was wake up call for me, because we posted it in forums, put it into the Guild's message of the day etc etc for a week. When it came time to move 3 of those "recruited" members swapped servers and we had maybe 20 not bother to do so. Now I don't even recruit anymore. Those 20 were kicked about 2 weeks after the move, since why would anyone want to be in a guild they don't play with? These weren't people that chatted with other members anyway so it wasn't a "friends list" for them.

You can not have expected them to follow you on a server change, though. They might have other friends or relatives playing on the server they are at. A guild is not people's only contact with others. Besides, why would this bother you? You can stay in guild and even join parties and do dungeons cross-server. The only downside is that they can't physically run over to help you somewhere in the world with a strong mob or the like.

#56 badra al duun

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 03:28 PM

View PostNewsinz, on 30 October 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

My Question would be... if you are in a guild with a bunch of friends, which I am, why wouldn't you and your friends join a bigger guild together as well?

Because it takes like one guy to spoil the pot.  We have something like that.  Roughly 15 friends/wives... and we WvW pretty much every night.  It would totally benefit us to get into a bigger guild where we could leverage communication better for multiple simultanious work across a map (or even across different borderlands) but we have a few people who are so scared of elitism that they just won't switch.  Which means you either stay out and stay isolated, or you break up the band as it were.

It's frustrating but there it is.

My general opinion of GW is that it's casual enough for this open-guild thing to work, but damn would we not tolerate it in more competitive environments in other games.

#57 Tallenn

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 08:53 PM

View PostKaiarra, on 30 August 2012 - 07:29 AM, said:

I wanted to have my own guild (me and my friends from wow for PvE), and join a separate guild for WvWvW... Haven't even bothered to try to find one yet, because I suspect any big PvP guilds will do their nut if I don't represent them all the time. :(

Think you should just appear offline in the roster if you're not representing...
Agree with that 100%

#58 Naginto

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:13 PM

View PostKyonshee, on 30 October 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

You can not have expected them to follow you on a server change, though. They might have other friends or relatives playing on the server they are at. A guild is not people's only contact with others. Besides, why would this bother you? You can stay in guild and even join parties and do dungeons cross-server. The only downside is that they can't physically run over to help you somewhere in the world with a strong mob or the like.

I had expected a higher percentage to follow yes, our announcement to move was only 1 week after release, with the move occurring 7 days after that. During that 1 week span of letting people know we were moving (for free) we talked in chat about it, had a forum thread about it and encouraged discussion. Two people stayed because they needed to be on a server with a high Australian population. The rest couldn't be bothered to even offer an opinion haha. It doesn't bother me- when I said it was a wake up call I meant it was surprising, not bothersome.

I've played most MMO's but EQ1 and EQ2 were my favorites and one of the best things about guilds in those games was the feeling you get from helping your guild mates - and getting great help from them in return. That kind of closeness is sadly my default viewpoint for guilds, and something GW2's design hampers.

Our main focus that early in the game was PVE, so most of the time we were all actively helping each other do map exploration and leveling - so it was the norm for us to "run over and help each other".

#59 Greibach

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:15 PM

It's merely a matter of guilds and players having equal ability to be a part of communities they want to be part of. As a guild leader myself, I can totally understand the motivations behind wanting people to represent more often. It helps the guild get more stuff, and that helps everyone, but it kind of sucks to see only a couple people active in your guild earning all the influence for everyone else's benefit. I don't personally support a policy, but I also don't begrudge a guild for having one. It's very simple:

1- If a guild has a policy like this that does not accommodate your playstyle and social desires, leave the guild/don't join if they aren't willing to negotiate. Don't be mad, just understand you want different things.

2- If you are a guild leader and you want that kind of policy, feel free to kick players that you don't deem are contributing enough. Don't be mad, just understand that they want different things.

You can leave, they can kick you/not let you join. That's all there is to it. Don't get razzed if you aren't compatible with a guild, move on. If you're a guild leader and can't accept that some people want to split their time, don't cause drama, either allow them into the guild knowing that, or don't. I really can't think of anything else to say in the matter. People in my guild are free to join and represent other guilds; if my guild is interesting enough, they will be with us more, if not, that's fine too. I'm in another guild that is basically the same. Lots of members, many not representing all the time, but you know what? We all got together in that guild for the big halloween event on sunday, and it was a BLAST. These are the types of guilds I want to be in and run, and so I do. Simple as that.

#60 Rellin

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 02:21 AM

View PostVampire Duzell, on 29 August 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:

I hate it when guilds say "You can join other guilds, but you must represent ours."
Then what's the point of joining multiple guilds? Maybe I have a guild with my friends from a different server, and maybe a guild that's in my server for WvW, and maybe you make your own guild just for fun. I hate having guilds whispering me saying to represent their guild. Now, I've just been playing as "invisible" so I can represent whatever guild and earn influence without having people spam me with "represent our guild" messages (although I can't read guild chat or talk in guild chat this way). If I am supposed to represent one guild 24/7, then there's no point in joining multiple guilds because all the other guilds would kick me anyways because almost all of the guilds I've been in have been like "represent us"

Don't join.





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