91 replies to this topic

[Uhhsam]

Influence should be gained privately by the player (like money or karma) and then donated to a guild by that player as they see fit.  So I might save up 100 influence and donate 30 to guild X and 70 to guild Y.  They would both be thankful that I've donated my influence to their cause, and neither would feel special or insulted because they wouldn't know that I had 100 total to spend (unless I wanted to tell them).

Then, if guilds want to demand loyalty, they can charge a weekly influence membership fee or something.  It would allow you to join those kinds of guilds if you like and still be able to donate a larger portion of your influence to your own personal guild if you like.

[Sycosis]

From a guild leaders perspective, representing is a members duty. I have been leading guilds for years in several different games, and in GW2 one of our policies is we do not allow members to have multiple guilds. We have it in the rules, it's also in the guild application. This is due to the fact that my officers and I feel one guild is all someone needs, recruitment is open to almost anyone, and we do everything the game has to offer.

Expecting members to respesent isn't a dictator or power thing for the majority of guild leaders, it's just wanting loyalty and guild pride, it enhances community, and allows the guild to work better as a team. I don't appreciate people that just pop in and out as they please, if you are a member of my guild then I expect you to be a member.

Likewise though, it is clearly stated for my guild, and anyone not happy with the rule simply doesn't have to join, all of my members feel the same as me. Having 1 guild allows you to build stronger friendship, respect for each other .

[Kratimas]

Our guild only asks (not required) to represent when you are doing activities with other guild members.

We figure that this is just a game and we are here to have fun.

[Kyonshee]

Naginto, on 30 October 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

I had expected a higher percentage to follow yes, our announcement to move was only 1 week after release, with the move occurring 7 days after that. During that 1 week span of letting people know we were moving (for free) we talked in chat about it, had a forum thread about it and encouraged discussion. Two people stayed because they needed to be on a server with a high Australian population. The rest couldn't be bothered to even offer an opinion haha. It doesn't bother me- when I said it was a wake up call I meant it was surprising, not bothersome.

I've played most MMO's but EQ1 and EQ2 were my favorites and one of the best things about guilds in those games was the feeling you get from helping your guild mates - and getting great help from them in return. That kind of closeness is sadly my default viewpoint for guilds, and something GW2's design hampers.

Our main focus that early in the game was PVE, so most of the time we were all actively helping each other do map exploration and leveling - so it was the norm for us to "run over and help each other".

Then now you know the people you've invited were not what you were looking for. I wouldn't let that spoil it and keep you from rebuilding the guild on your current server. There's plenty out there, and if you give them time to get attached to the guild, maybe they will bother to transfer with you, if you plan to do so again later.

[Nalano]

Little Bird, on 29 October 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

A solution would be to make non representing members invisible to the guild list. Even if you have a representing character in the guild, somehow seeing a non-representing one is an insult.

Only in the sense that a boyfriend/girlfriend who decides to go to work is snubbing you by not hanging out with you 24/7.

Edited by Ethereal, 31 October 2012 - 08:05 PM.

[stefanplc]

I have a main guild that I represent however for various activities I swap guilds. For example if I'm LFM or LFG for a dungeon I go through all of them advertising particularly the ones that I know are more PvE oriented.

[sevalaricgirl]

As a guild leader, I require guild members to represent the guild.  If they want to join another guild, they can leave mine, no questions asked.

[Carbinedevil]

The ability to join multiple guilds on this game is bullshit. Very simply, it discourages guild loyalty and defeats the entire purpose of joining a guild in the first place.

Guilds are supposed to be a dedicated, close knit group of people. An ideal scenario would be a flourishing, active community in-game AND outside of the game, supported by communication programs such as IRC/forums/voice. The system now? Guilds having half the people not representing. Highly inactive/non-existent offsite interaction. Guilds are typically a hi-bye affair in the game.

People who say "I represent this guild today for WvW, then that guild tomorrow for PvE" - this isn't how guilds are supposed to work. Guilds are groups where people do different things together - not a "I come as I like" place. People who represent different guilds on different days as and when they like are akin to clan-hoppers.

But obviously, this isn't just the fault of guild hoppers alone. The guild system design in this game is absolutely horrible - they want people to know as many different groups of people as possible, but they do not allow players to participate in the chat of guilds they are not representing. This, to me is the biggest problem about the guild system, because it renders useless the participation of a player, simply because he/she does not know what is happening in other guilds.

Basically - you don't have to represent different guilds when you're doing different activities. So what if one guild is better than another at PvE? Does it really matter to "roll with the best"? Does it really matter if you spent 15-30 more minutes doing a dungeon with another guild which is better at its community aspect/ WvW?

Edited by Carbinedevil, 31 October 2012 - 03:53 PM.

[sevalaricgirl]

Carbinedevil, on 31 October 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

The ability to join multiple guilds on this game is bullshit. Very simply, it discourages guild loyalty and defeats the entire purpose of joining a guild in the first place.

Guilds are supposed to be a dedicated, close knit group of people. An ideal scenario would be a flourishing, active community in-game AND outside of the game, supported by communication programs such as IRC/forums/voice. The system now? Guilds having half the people not representing. Highly inactive/non-existent offsite interaction. Guilds are typically a hi-bye affair in the game.

People who say "I represent this guild today for WvW, then that guild tomorrow for PvE" - this isn't how guilds are supposed to work. Guilds are groups where people do different things together - not a "I come as I like" place. People who represent different guilds on different days as and when they like are akin to clan-hoppers.

But obviously, this isn't just the fault of guild hoppers alone. The guild system design in this game is absolutely horrible - they want people to know as many different groups of people as possible, but they do not allow players to participate in the chat of guilds they are not representing. This, to me is the biggest problem about the guild system, because it renders useless the participation of a player, simply because he/she does not know what is happening in other guilds.

Basically - you don't have to represent different guilds when you're doing different activities. So what if one guild is better than another at PvE? Does it really matter to "roll with the best"? Does it really matter if you spent 15-30 more minutes doing a dungeon with another guild which is better at its community aspect/ WvW?

I absolutely agree with you 100%.  There is no way someone should be able to be in more than one guild which is why I have our guild rule.  If you want to represent another guild, don't join mine.

[Thunderhead]

I also agree. Entering the guild lobby to see half the guild missing/not repping is a sorry sight for a game community...especially if you have invested considerably in the guild's formation.

[Nalano]

"Invested considerably in the guild's formation."

You spent one silver.

I think it's a breath of fresh air to be able to straddle two or more guilds. I have more than one circle of friends in my life. I do not believe it feasible to - nor would I want to - bring them all under one roof. Some people like some things, others like others. I relish not having to pick and choose between them; consigned to ignore one in favor of the other.

Being a guildie is one thing. Demanding sole ownership of a guildie is another. No friend of mine can monopolize my time. If any tried, they'd cease being my friend and start being a territorial freak. indeed, that's what you're doing when you act offended that somebody's not representing your guild at any given moment: You're freaking out. Stop that. It's unseemly and needlessly possessive.

Edited by Nalano, 31 October 2012 - 07:10 PM.

[Darkobra]

As a guild leader, I consider the people more important than the influence. Come see me when you want. Represent when you want. Stop begging loyalty from your members and be someone they want to be loyal to. Does an entire guild need to change or do YOU need to change?

[Nox_Aeterna]

Our guild got around 500 members , and yes our policy requires you mostly represent us, not only but mostly , if you do not , you get a warning , if you do not hear you get kicked.

Honestly , this is the way we do it , simple.

it is not open to question , our leaders rules ARE the rules , end. People are asked to read all guild rules when joining to make sure they understand this.

Not like many here say , our guild is very active and is far , far from dying from implementing this and other rules, which actually are intended to make our guild last , like kicking inactive and many others.

Find a guild that got another system that does not care if you represent or not , im sure there are many around.

Edited by Nox_Aeterna, 01 November 2012 - 06:48 AM.

[TheGizzy]

I've got better things to do with my time than check up on whether or not my members are representing.  I'm not their mother - they don't need me dictating how they spend their time or who they spend it with.  If I'm so keen on acquiring influence for my guild, I can sink in the funds to buy it... just like if the members want perks for the guild, they can make sure they're representing so we can obtain 'em.

I'm curious how many of you guild leaders who demand exclusivity in representation from your members ALSO give those members equal say in how the influence is spent?  I'm betting very few of you do... so basically, you're telling these people how they can spend their time, and then dictating how the profit from THEIR time is spent.  No wonder so many guilds are struggling to hold onto members... hell if I'm going to just pour my profits (influence) into someone's coffers while they go off and decide how to spend it, regardless of my opinion.  And what an ass I'd be as a guild leader to expect anyone else to go along with that.  I want friends... not minions.

I'm sorry, but there isn't squat your guild is offering that a thousand others don't also offer, with less restrictions and "rules" added into the mix.

[Tallenn]

I don't see what the big deal is, anyway. Unless you are close to a threshold of membership (besides 50, it only takes 1s to grow it to 100), why does it matter? Now, if you are getting close to a membership threshold, and will either have to spend money to make the guild bigger, kick some people, or stop inviting new ones, then sure, I'd probably want to kick the ones who never seem to represent, to make way for people that do.

[Nalano]

Nox_Aeterna, on 01 November 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

Our guild got around 500 members , and yes our policy requires you mostly represent us, not only but mostly , if you do not , you get a warning , if you do not hear you get kicked.

Honestly , this is the way we do it , simple.

it is not open to question , our leaders rules ARE the rules , end. People are asked to read all guild rules when joining to make sure they understand this.

Not like many here say , our guild is very active and is far , far from dying from implementing this and other rules, which actually are intended to make our guild last , like kicking inactive and many others.

Find a guild that got another system that does not care if you represent or not , im sure there are many around.

"It's an abusive relationship, but it's an honest abusive relationship."

[sevalaricgirl]

Nalano, on 31 October 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

"Invested considerably in the guild's formation."

You spent one silver.

Really, I spent money on a forum, on mumble, my time and as an author that's worth money.  So I think guild leaders do spend money on the guild they lead.

[Seera1024]

As long as guilds are up front with the rule on representing and give fair warning to those who aren't representing, guilds are free to be restrictive on their rules for representing.

Just as players have every right to join multiple guilds and spread the influence around, guilds have every right to ask for 100% of the time you represent them. Some people only want to be in one guild so there are people who could care less what the representation rule is (beyond maybe guild bank and such for personal storage).


And as long as the two opposing opinions recognize that BOTH sides are valid and can be polite when they interact, I don't see any problem.

[Nalano]

sevalaricgirl, on 01 November 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

Really, I spent money on a forum, on mumble, my time and as an author that's worth money.  So I think guild leaders do spend money on the guild they lead.

I'll mail you the twenty bucks if that'll stop you from patting yourself on the back. Get over yourself.

[Nox_Aeterna]

Nalano, on 01 November 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

"It's an abusive relationship, but it's an honest abusive relationship."

Actually it is quite simple , we got 500 guild slots , and everyday more and more people need to come in , people ask to be invited , members got friends so on ...

Now , we kick inactives first , still we need space , if we have a player that want to spend most of his time with us playing , why should we leave another that only want to spend a little?

Say what you say , every guild got a limited space and spending it with people that like to be in your guild seems logical to me.

Still like i said , people dont need to represent 100% of the time , they are asked to do it mostly.

[Darkobra]

500 people where 30 know each other and 470 strangers are watching your drama. Sign me up twice!

[Capn_Crass]

Having cut my teeth in FFXI, it's sort of surprising to see the whole multiple guild concept be such a contentious one. FFXI allowed you to join multiple linkshells (read: guilds), and the playerbase created dedicated shells for everything; class-specific shells, event-specific shells, race-specific shells... You name it, there was a shell dedicated exclusively to that one thing. Hell, a friend of mine started a shell for mithra (sexy cat-girls) players who would give lapdances for gil. Seriously.

There are several advantages to a multi-guild system, but the main one is it allows you to "work" with one group of people (who are competent and specialized, but may not be the coolest people to hang out with) and "hang out" with another (who may be great drinking buddies but couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag). You show up to work when you're scheduled, and drink beer and chase skirts and/or pants with your friends the rest of the time.

[Passive Aggressive]

I can see for giant guilds who would have an issue with membership being full.  But everyone else needs to get over themselves. One of the advantages of being able to represent other guilds is you can jump to another one on your list to see if anyone is available for grouping or instances if the guild they are currently in no one is online or wanting to group.  You are cheating players of that option.

[Fizzypop]

Ualtar, on 29 October 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

You do realize that it has almost nothing to do with control right?  As a guild leader I put time into running the guild.  I look for people to recruit.  Even if I don't feel like it, I need to take time from my day every day to be on the guild forums and post on those forums.  I need to say hi and bye to everybody.  I need to quest with people in my guild.  So it is controlling if I just ask for a bit of common courtesy when people want to multi guild (which I don't mind by the way).

whoa thought this thread was dead.

There is a point where your behavior becomes controlling. I'm sorry, but I find it very borderline controlling behavior. My husband doesn't even get to tell me how I spend my time in game let alone a stranger. Putting time into something doesn't really give you the right to demand something from another player. As another person pointed out they are doing the work to help the guild, but what are you giving back? A sense of community? I don't really feel that when I'm told if I spend time in another guild that I'll be kicked like yesterday's trash. You will always get people who don't commit, but it has very little to do with having more than one guild. You miss out on some awesome people just because you can't get over the fact that not every single member is going to be giving you influence all the time. It's very possible for people to be comitted to a guild even if they are in another guild.

Sycosis, on 31 October 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

This is due to the fact that my officers and I feel one guild is all someone needs,

Why do you feel you get to tell a total stranger that one guild is all they need? This is kind of what I'm talking about. It's really creepy sounding. If a friend or my husband told me that I'd be like "um what?" and be running for the hills.

[Nox_Aeterna]

Darkobra, on 02 November 2012 - 02:56 AM, said:

500 people where 30 know each other and 470 strangers are watching your drama. Sign me up twice!

Hehehe i have to agree at times feels like that.

But that is because tons of them dont talk much, cant do anything about that.

Still they do take part in guild groups and events so hey , not so bad.

And while we officers follow the guild rules , we are still quite nice usually , just dont go full retarded on us lol.

But our leader is very strict , if it goes high ... heads roll , so there is not much drama, at least till from where i sit.

[Warmaster Bacon]

One time I joined a guild, they told me I had to represent their guild or else, I'm just like W/E and represent my old guild, whenever I'm farming. One day everyone in my guild was offline (its a small guild, trying to find our old members first before we recruit new ones), I represented the other guild to talk a bit. Then I got an abyss dye, and the guild leader told me I had to give it to him or else I'm kicked. I lol'd at him in vent told the entire guild what the guild leader tried to do, 5 people whispered me then left. I got kicked. No loss there.

[Nox_Aeterna]

Warmaster Bacon, on 03 November 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

One time I joined a guild, they told me I had to represent their guild or else, I'm just like W/E and represent my old guild, whenever I'm farming. One day everyone in my guild was offline (its a small guild, trying to find our old members first before we recruit new ones), I represented the other guild to talk a bit. Then I got an abyss dye, and the guild leader told me I had to give it to him or else I'm kicked. I lol'd at him in vent told the entire guild what the guild leader tried to do, 5 people whispered me then left. I got kicked. No loss there.

Honestly , that is what i call extortion. Anyone is better off outside guilds like that.

[OdinWalhalla]

Well if you are joining a guild with a 1 guild only policy, you should know what to expect. If you don't want to represent them, then there shouldn't be a place for you, period.

People these days are always demanding but never giving back even the smallest things like loyalty and passion.

[dynia666]

some kido called me a kid who don't know how to play mmo (over 10 year player in game and mmo ;* ) when I didn't want represent his guild xD I told him multi guild is part of the game and its only tool for eaier find dungeons or wvwvw groups that all xD

I know well how use some mmo mechacizms xD so I trolled him he pissed of hard starts cry and blocked me ;(

[P4ndora]

I think the multiple guild system is a bad idea. A guild's purpose should be to make it's members close to each other and not to frustrate them. Seriously, there can be 500 members in a guild, that's an insane amount especially if the members don't know one another for a long time. Why can't we make sections/groups inside a guild instead of joining more guilds? So there would be a general chat that every member can see, but there would be a group that you have to "represent" to be able to see/participate the chat there. For example, there are guilds who are both PvP and PvE, but if one half of the guild wants to talk about PvE, they can do it without disturbing the PvP section.
My guild has 400+ members, about 50 people are online at a time, but 35 of them are not representing our guild... Most of the time I only see/talk with those 15-20 people. It's annoying, I'd rather have <100 guild members that are willing to represent the guild, so at least we can communicate. Seeing all those people who never talk in guild chat because they're in other guilds just irritating, and they are just taking up place and make the guild tab looks messy.

The game is not really social and I partly blame the multiple guild system because of it. Of course a guild hall would be awesome too, but right now with multiple guilds that wouldn't change much imo.

Sorry for my bad english, still early in the morning >.<