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Guardian - Zealot Spike Guide for sPvP and tournaments!

guardian spike guide

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#31 JaxSilven

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 04:38 AM



My guide to my new build is now up!!! Has no pvp gameplay, that will be in other videos!
I'm well aware my mic still sucks, long story short I got scammed trying to buy one of ebay, now I have my money back and have purchased another. I will have a new mic either this friday or next monday =D

Comment subscribe and you can help me improve too <3

#32 Lilitu

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 07:40 AM

Without any amulet you're at 1201 power, hitting for 131% of base damage.
Modified by amulet-less crit of 25% at 195%(we'll call it 200%) crit damage is 163.


With knight:
1770 power, 193% of base damage.
Modified by 52% crit and 200% crit damage is 293.

With soldier:
1999 power, 218% of base damage.
Modified by 25% crit and 200% crit damage is 272.

Since we rounded up crit damage and assumed 6/6 divinity there I'll call that a 7% dmg difference plus the extra vitality.
Do you think this is worth the extra ~20% mitigation you could have from just picking up the soldier's amulet instead? Especially considering the impact on your EHP will be higher due to the heals you can do.


Any reason why you chose Air over Fire on the weapon? I found Fire to do similar damage but as aoe.

Edited by Lilitu, 05 September 2012 - 07:42 AM.


#33 JaxSilven

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 09:05 AM

View PostLilitu, on 05 September 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

Without any amulet you're at 1201 power, hitting for 131% of base damage.
Modified by amulet-less crit of 25% at 195%(we'll call it 200%) crit damage is 163.


With knight:
1770 power, 193% of base damage.
Modified by 52% crit and 200% crit damage is 293.

With soldier:
1999 power, 218% of base damage.
Modified by 25% crit and 200% crit damage is 272.

Since we rounded up crit damage and assumed 6/6 divinity there I'll call that a 7% dmg difference plus the extra vitality.
Do you think this is worth the extra ~20% mitigation you could have from just picking up the soldier's amulet instead? Especially considering the impact on your EHP will be higher due to the heals you can do.


Any reason why you chose Air over Fire on the weapon? I found Fire to do similar damage but as aoe.

Well you definitely can switch it out if you're feeling that you take too much damage. But the Knight amulet complements the build more, because it's focus is to deal high amounts of crits to pressure you target. So if you feel you can sacrifice a decent amount of dps then definitely run it!! Not to mention the increase on air hits from your weapon.


And when I tested it the air weapon did much more than the fire, although I should probably try it again since it has been a while from when I last did test it.

#34 coldkeg

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 02:55 PM

View PostAodan, on 03 September 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

1. Ogre is stupid good, you should be using at least 4 then 2 divinity if your going a highly offensive build. The marginal crit dmg/chance loss is a great trade for a pet that will bump your dps up significantly.

This is a joke right? What serious PvPer advocates gearing for RNG over static gains? Furthermore, it's laughable that you would be so condescending in this thread considering your so-called esports team is probably seeking corporate sponsorship. Guess what, corporations don't fund teams that shit on the public they're trying to market to.

As one of the first people to ever introduce serious corporate cash into the world of professional video gaming, let me tell you, your attitude is a real disservice to the world of e-sports. Get off your high horse, amateur.

Edited by coldkeg, 05 September 2012 - 03:43 PM.


#35 Misses Tsuki

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 03:12 PM

I wonder how you do with that build vs certain heavier CC build classes? I think that build works out really great in a decent team with communication, but if you solo, don't you lack some CC? In most of the cases if I solo queue, I take Bane as I can't always rely on teammates.

#36 nofe

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 04:05 PM

View PostMisses Tsuki, on 05 September 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

I wonder how you do with that build vs certain heavier CC build classes? I think that build works out really great in a decent team with communication, but if you solo, don't you lack some CC? In most of the cases if I solo queue, I take Bane as I can't always rely on teammates.

I take bane as well simply because i think it's vital to have a KO to interrupt that important heal or spike at the right time.  I wish bane signet was on par with Hammer's 3 sec KO though, but other than that it's probably the best sigil you can use other than the heal.

#37 JaxSilven

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 09:19 PM

View PostMisses Tsuki, on 05 September 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

I wonder how you do with that build vs certain heavier CC build classes? I think that build works out really great in a decent team with communication, but if you solo, don't you lack some CC? In most of the cases if I solo queue, I take Bane as I can't always rely on teammates.

Yes it's definitely my favourite optional over Contemplation, I did mention this in the video. The reason I left contemplation in was that it was meant to be a general guide and that's the highest survivability option! If somebody just looked it up and took in nothing but the build I'd rather they take in the most versatile option.
But yes, bane signet is amazing and it's good for rotating with chains!

#38 Lilitu

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 11:41 PM

I tried a build like this tonight.. I previously played a warrior since headstart (I play 10/0/30/30/0 with hammer/swordshield shout or a 10/30/0/0/30 dual axe) and I was sickened by how much more effective the guardian is at pretty much everything.. it absolutely destroyed anyone unlucky enough to see me in a 1v1 or even 2v1. I think I might change mains.

#39 JaxSilven

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 02:09 PM

View PostLilitu, on 05 September 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

I tried a build like this tonight.. I previously played a warrior since headstart (I play 10/0/30/30/0 with hammer/swordshield shout or a 10/30/0/0/30 dual axe) and I was sickened by how much more effective the guardian is at pretty much everything.. it absolutely destroyed anyone unlucky enough to see me in a 1v1 or even 2v1. I think I might change mains.

haha awesome =D

#40 Misses Tsuki

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 03:39 PM

Jax, you have any problems with Mesmers in that build? I kill everything else fine , which is really fun, even 3v1 a couple of times (just love those HS spamming thieves, nomnomnom), but when there is a decent Mesmer involved I get ownd :/

Any tips?

#41 Soryuju

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 05:41 PM

View PostMisses Tsuki, on 06 September 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

Jax, you have any problems with Mesmers in that build? I kill everything else fine , which is really fun, even 3v1 a couple of times (just love those HS spamming thieves, nomnomnom), but when there is a decent Mesmer involved I get ownd :/

Any tips?

I posted this in another thread the other day - hopefully these tips will be of some use to you:

Quote


One, be very careful of Confusion.  One or two stacks is no big deal, but if you see it climb up to 5 or more, either cleanse it immediately or ease off a bit with your attacks.  If you can't cleanse and have to wait it out, remember that Confusion stacks in intensity, not duration, which means that after a few seconds, those stacks are going to start falling off.  Do what you can to maintain pressure during these few seconds, but use your skills sparingly.  I have yet to see a Mesmer build that can maintain 5+ stacks of Confusion on a target, so just be patient and know that the time to counterattack will come soon.

Two - kill Phantasms quickly.  Mesmers rely on Phantasms like the Illusionary Duelist and Warlock for a big chunk of their direct damage, and if you destroy these Phantasms ASAP when they're summoned, the Mesmer is going to have to wait another 10 or so seconds to get his DPS back up to threatening levels. The Phantasms die in a few hits if your build packs decent damage, and investing a few seconds in bringing them down when they pop up will spare you a lot of pain later on.

Three - what is, in my opinion, the single most powerful tool for dealing with Mesmers of all varieties: Call Target (Ctrl+T by default).  When engaging a Mesmer, finding out which one is the real one is the key to victory, but simply spotting the real one doesn't guarantee success - you have to keep track of them, which can be tough when they're always spawning more copies of themselves and using tricky maneuvers like Phase Retreat to throw you off.  Besides that, whenever a Mesmer creates a clone, they also break your regular targeting, which further complicates the issue.  Call Target, however, is different: once you identify the real Mesmer and Call Target on them, it paints a big red cross-hairs over them that only disappears if they go into stealth.  Creating clones will still drop your normal targeting, but it can't take that big red bulls-eye off the real one, so the Mesmer loses the element of deception that can make them so troublesome to deal with.  Until they go into stealth, you should never lose track of them, and this makes the fight much more stressful for the Mesmer.  

Is Call Target an unfair mechanic to Mesmers, with the way it can negate a significant portion of their playstyle? Not the way I see it.  The Mesmer retains the element of deception until they give themselves away in a fight by dodging or using a skill with an obvious animation (like Chaos Armor or Blurred Frenzy), and you still have to react quickly enough to target the real one and Call Target before they create another clone to break your targeting.  Stealth provides a way for Mesmers to reset Call Target if they choose to bring it, and many Mesmers already do (such as with the popular Decoy utility, or its Adept-level companion trait, Desperate Decoy).  It does give Guardians and other classes a better shot against them, though - many less-experienced Mesmers will panic and crumble when they realize their clones aren't working, and even good ones have to play a lot more carefully once this advantage has been nullified.

Hope this was helpful.  Good luck dealing with them in the future!


#42 Misses Tsuki

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:14 PM

View PostSoryuju, on 06 September 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

snip

Thanks a lot, doing most of that already but guess it's just practice then :/
Was wondering if Purging Flames would be decent vs a mesmer? Seeing as those clones are mostly near me, I can clean the confusion and burn them all simultaneously , as from what I can see is that they have problems with heavy AoE skilled classes.

#43 JaxSilven

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:05 AM

View PostMisses Tsuki, on 06 September 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

Thanks a lot, doing most of that already but guess it's just practice then :/
Was wondering if Purging Flames would be decent vs a mesmer? Seeing as those clones are mostly near me, I can clean the confusion and burn them all simultaneously , as from what I can see is that they have problems with heavy AoE skilled classes.

Sory summed it up extremely well ^^, yes purging flames is decent vs a mesmer, but they often aren't completely balled so you don't hit everything (plus the very long recharge). Smite is extremely strong vs mesmers, it lets you kill one or more of them while still being able to hit him with the scepter or swapping to the sword.
If you're really having trouble try using bane signet over purging and you can even go GS over sword focus. Even when not spec'd into the GS, sometimes it can be more effective.

Generally I force them to use their defensive skills then use flashing blade and Purging to close the gap and make their skill wasted =)

#44 JaxSilven

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 02:19 PM



Bloodlust runes are amazing!!!
Has gameplay and a few tips too!!
Also I got a new microphone FINALLY =D, Enjoyyyy!! <3

#45 Franjean

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 06:20 PM

Good video, solid gameplay. I enjoyed the build quite a bit when I tried it this morning.

Good God though, it sounds like you are frantically typing out a novel; a bit distracting hearing the slamming on the keyboard. Live commentary is cool and all but for guide videos you may want to do voice over instead.

#46 JaxSilven

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 07:41 AM

View PostFranjean, on 07 September 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

Good video, solid gameplay. I enjoyed the build quite a bit when I tried it this morning.

Good God though, it sounds like you are frantically typing out a novel; a bit distracting hearing the slamming on the keyboard. Live commentary is cool and all but for guide videos you may want to do voice over instead.

Haha yeah, I'll try keep that in mind, definitely turning up the sensitivity!!!!

#47 Kara Mon

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 11:30 AM

I like triple meditation build but why not torch instead of focus? It add much more firepower to the sword , zealot's fire can crit quite nice and with virtue of justice + divinity runes i see crits close to 7k and you have 1200 range with that. Cleansing Flame is nice too , low cd good damage and you can quite fast clean field of view from those annoying clones and phantasms. I can't find good situation for focus aside of shield of wrath against HS spammers

#48 JaxSilven

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:15 PM

View PostKara Mon, on 08 September 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

I like triple meditation build but why not torch instead of focus? It add much more firepower to the sword , zealot's fire can crit quite nice and with virtue of justice + divinity runes i see crits close to 7k and you have 1200 range with that. Cleansing Flame is nice too , low cd good damage and you can quite fast clean field of view from those annoying clones and phantasms. I can't find good situation for focus aside of shield of wrath against HS spammers

Shield of Wrath is godmode tbh, it's one of the best Guardian skills by a mile. Defends against all physicals and spikes, it's utility is amazing and the torch just doesn't compare =(. Although you're free to use it if you wish! All up the focus will do more damage, as you can always defend more!

#49 MalkavTheMad

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 05:21 PM

I don't play Guardian yet, I am looking into it... however, I have to say something. YOU NEED TO LEARN HOW TO USE A MICROPHONE. I thought it was a fluke watching your first video, but it is every, single, video. Please take the microphone out of your throat. Nothing is so annoying as hearing every "P" sounding like an explosion and every breath like thunder rolling outside my window.

#50 Forsvar

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 07:55 PM

Aodan may not have been very tactful in how he mentioned a few things, but at least one thing he mentioned that got buried is a very good critique:  With or without focused mind, Judge's Intervention is an instant.  So if you are using Bane Signet (as I am) you would only go from a 1s cast Smite to an instant - for a major skill slot.  Retributive Armor (5% toughness bonus to precision) or Purity (-1 condition every 10s) are much better choices because of this, and I recommend you try them out and then update your posted build if you agree.  Other than that the only difference between your build and mine is Tome of Courage - which is HIGHLY recommend if you are doing anything other than roaming.  That imba skill is often the difference between a lost team fight (think Keep/GY zerg) and a victory.

Thanks for your post, it really got me going in the right direction (the stickied builds are just awful... terribly awful) and like I said, I only made 2 relatively minor tweaks to it and am having great success.

Edit: Oh and I also use and highly recommend rune of the Ogre.  165 power, 3% crit cmg, 4% overall dmg and a pet (which is almost always up in fights) vs 60 to all stats and 12% crit damage.  I don't think it's hugely important to pick one over the other, but the rock dog does add a bit of confusion to fights and I've caught idiots fighting it instead of me before.

Edited by Forsvar, 08 September 2012 - 08:00 PM.


#51 JaxSilven

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:42 PM

View PostForsvar, on 08 September 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Aodan may not have been very tactful in how he mentioned a few things, but at least one thing he mentioned that got buried is a very good critique:  With or without focused mind, Judge's Intervention is an instant.  So if you are using Bane Signet (as I am) you would only go from a 1s cast Smite to an instant - for a major skill slot.  Retributive Armor (5% toughness bonus to precision) or Purity (-1 condition every 10s) are much better choices because of this, and I recommend you try them out and then update your posted build if you agree.  Other than that the only difference between your build and mine is Tome of Courage - which is HIGHLY recommend if you are doing anything other than roaming.  That imba skill is often the difference between a lost team fight (think Keep/GY zerg) and a victory.

Thanks for your post, it really got me going in the right direction (the stickied builds are just awful... terribly awful) and like I said, I only made 2 relatively minor tweaks to it and am having great success.

Edit: Oh and I also use and highly recommend rune of the Ogre.  165 power, 3% crit cmg, 4% overall dmg and a pet (which is almost always up in fights) vs 60 to all stats and 12% crit damage.  I don't think it's hugely important to pick one over the other, but the rock dog does add a bit of confusion to fights and I've caught idiots fighting it instead of me before.

But when they're instant you don't need CC as much because you can use it while you use ZD, meaning you can hit all your damage when you teleport (leaving them less chance to dodge and less options of where to dodge to). Not to mention when downing teleporting enemies you can cast the instant teleport and it won't interrupt your finisher, makes sins eZ mode. Not to mention you can cast SC in most CC's now (obv not stun or daze, etc). I just gives you that edge you don't have if they have a cast time.
Secondly I've already said each time in my videos that ToC is primarily used and the only time you don't is roaming, treb or with randoms in sPvP and you don't feel like they're playing as a team, so your build is actually the same as mine bar the removal of instant cast (which you can actually ditch bane for).

I recommended using ogre runes too, just I personally prefer Divinity. Not to mention this build revolves around high crit rates, which divinity provides, and vs high armour targets the rock dog barely does much damage.

But thanks a lot for your support and your criticism!!

#52 Forsvar

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 10:09 PM

View PostJaxSilven, on 08 September 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

But when they're instant you don't need CC as much because you can use it while you use ZD, meaning you can hit all your damage when you teleport (leaving them less chance to dodge and less options of where to dodge to). Not to mention when downing teleporting enemies you can cast the instant teleport and it won't interrupt your finisher, makes sins eZ mode. Not to mention you can cast SC in most CC's now (obv not stun or daze, etc). I just gives you that edge you don't have if they have a cast time.
Secondly I've already said each time in my videos that ToC is primarily used and the only time you don't is roaming, treb or with randoms in sPvP and you don't feel like they're playing as a team, so your build is actually the same as mine bar the removal of instant cast (which you can actually ditch bane for).

The teleport is still instant without the trait, it's only the damage spell that has a cast time and thus benefits from it.  Unless I'm missing an added, non-obvious benefit that the already-instant teleport gains from that trait?  I've tested it mid-cast and everything, sans-trait it works exactly the same (as far as I can tell) as with the trait.  Just try it for yourself on a target dummy, you'll see.  Also, I've gone back to using Stand Your Ground.  It's just too crazy imba not to use in team fights.  I noticed against good teams I was cc'd to hell and back without that skill.

View PostJaxSilven, on 08 September 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

I recommended using ogre runes too, just I personally prefer Divinity. Not to mention this build revolves around high crit rates, which divinity provides, and vs high armour targets the rock dog barely does much damage.

So I just tested ogre vs divinity on a heavy target dummy with steady pvp sword (low, constant damage for build analysis) and they both take exactly 35s to drop him.  I had no sigil on the sword to remove as much randomness as possible.  So it would seem the added power from ogre offsets the added crit damage from the divinity set.  That means it really comes down to personal preference of +60 toughness/vitality or a dog that spawns and does an unknown amount of damage (can't really get it to spawn doing dummy dps tests).

View PostJaxSilven, on 08 September 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

But thanks a lot for your support and your criticism!!

Thank you for the guide and the thoughtful responses to everyone!

Edited by Forsvar, 08 September 2012 - 10:23 PM.


#53 Forsvar

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 10:19 PM

Please delete this, double-post

Edited by Forsvar, 08 September 2012 - 10:23 PM.


#54 coldkeg

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 05:10 AM

You can drop those rock dogs in 2s as well.

#55 JaxSilven

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 09:24 AM

View PostForsvar, on 08 September 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

The teleport is still instant without the trait, it's only the damage spell that has a cast time and thus benefits from it.  Unless I'm missing an added, non-obvious benefit that the already-instant teleport gains from that trait?  I've tested it mid-cast and everything, sans-trait it works exactly the same (as far as I can tell) as with the trait.  Just try it for yourself on a target dummy, you'll see.  Also, I've gone back to using Stand Your Ground.  It's just too crazy imba not to use in team fights.  I noticed against good teams I was cc'd to hell and back without that skill.



So I just tested ogre vs divinity on a heavy target dummy with steady pvp sword (low, constant damage for build analysis) and they both take exactly 35s to drop him.  I had no sigil on the sword to remove as much randomness as possible.  So it would seem the added power from ogre offsets the added crit damage from the divinity set.  That means it really comes down to personal preference of +60 toughness/vitality or a dog that spawns and does an unknown amount of damage (can't really get it to spawn doing dummy dps tests).



Thank you for the guide and the thoughtful responses to everyone!

But the steady weapons don't crit properly do they? It's not a fair comparison vs actual game-play. But I could be wrong, the crit hits the upper bound of the weapon damage x your crit+ % right? It seems to be personal preference from what I've seen, and I do prefer divinity. Every in-game test I've done divinity has worked much better.

I notice the difference between instant cast and regular a lot because currently my traits glitch every time I travel to PvP, and sometimes I forget to re-apply them, you're at a small disadvantage when having no instant cast, smite condition often just doesn't activate and knockback won't let me use judge's.

And yeah I looove stand your ground, I've stupidly overlooked it in tPvP though, so it's definitely something for me to try out!!

Thanks!

#56 Misterkrowl

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 02:59 PM

Nice build, as a mesmer i havent lost a 1 on 1 yet to a guardian with my build. PM Drexxi in agame for a duel in a empty HJ game

#57 JaxSilven

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 11:59 PM

Sorry for not posting another video in the last few days!!! Was trying to do one this morning and found out it actually doesn't work (was about glory farming)!
And sure krowl I'll 1v1 you, just name a time I'm awake =P
Will be doing another guide in a day or so, hopefully my stream doesn't crash 100x when I'm trying to do it =(

#58 JackSpee

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:04 PM

Oh wow, I was actually having trouble with the Guardian in sPvP up until now!
Fantastic build, and I love your narration on how to use it.
The raw, un-edited sense of it appeals to me, says that anybody can do it, even if they screw up ^^
Please keep up the good work.

Thanks a lot!

#59 JaxSilven

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:31 AM

View PostJackSpee, on 10 September 2012 - 11:04 PM, said:

Oh wow, I was actually having trouble with the Guardian in sPvP up until now!
Fantastic build, and I love your narration on how to use it.
The raw, un-edited sense of it appeals to me, says that anybody can do it, even if they screw up ^^
Please keep up the good work.

Thanks a lot!

=D thank you so much!! I'm uploading a new video very soon =D

#60 zosek

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 07:51 AM

Nice work on the build. I might try it out, allthough i dont see myself using it for long after that. I already saw planty of people running this build and it gets me nervous/mad when a lot of ppl are using the same build. I'm running somethin new, a little more aoe oriented. I went 1v1 yesterday against this build, and the other guy barely won. He was on 50hp or sth like that. Against a 1v1 build thats pretty decent from my side, since i'm not that pvp oriented guy.




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