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Weapon swap sigils - which are working?

sigil weapon swap attunement

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#1 ak47_training

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 03:05 PM

Good day. Epic time lurker here.

TL DR at the end of post.

I've only recently (duh) found out that attunement swaps are supposed to trigger Weapon Swap Sigils.

Right now they seem to not be working properly (some are not triggered at all, others have conflicting cooldowns).

I want to make here a reference post (if there's none yet; I didn't find it) about weapon swap Sigils - which of them have conflicting cooldowns, which do not work at all, and which are OK.

The other thing that I'm not sure how to test is whether the weapon swap cooldown conflicts with critical proc cooldown (Superior Sigil of Purity and Superior Sigil of Nullification being the most interesting ones).

I am doing the testing with a set of daggers on dummies in Mists.

The testing is done with a dagger in MH and no weapon in OH.

I tracked timings via cooldown timers on attunements, so they're pretty accurate (+-0.5 seconds at worst).

So here's the list:

Sigil of Intelligence - Does not work.

Sigil of Superior Battle - Works. There is a cooldown, something close to 10 seconds.

Sigil of Superior Doom - Does not work.

Sigil of Superior Energy  - Works. Cooldown is indeed 9 seconds.

Sigil of Superior Geomancy - Works. Applies 3 stacks of Bleeding. Cooldown is slightly more than 9 seconds, more like 10.

Sigil of Superior Hydromancy  - Works. Cooldown is 9 seconds, as the tooltip states.

Sigil of Superior Leeching - Does not work.


MH+OH testing. As a rule of thumb, it does not depend which one is MH or OH.

Sigil of Superior Battle overrides Sigil of Superior Hydromancy
Sigil of Superior Battle overrides Sigil of Superior Geomancy
Sigil of Superior Battle overrides Sigil of Superior Energy

Sigil of Superior Hydromancy overrides Sigil of Superior Geomancy
Sigil of Superior Hydromancy overrides Sigil of Superior Energy

Sigil of Superior Geomancy overrides Sigil of Superior Energy

Testing of crit-proc sigils.

Tested Sigil of Superior Geomancy with Sigil of Superior Strength. Used high critrate build (67%) with multiattacking autoattacks for consistency. Of course, I avoided all alien sources of Might.
Sigil of Superior Strength has no internal cooldown whatsoever (Turns out it actually has, further tests showed about 0.2s cd). It can proc for several crits in a row (as long as the hidden 0.2s cd is ready). I've had up to 6 stacks of Might during testing. Sigil of Superior Geomancy also procs well, even right after Sigil of Superior Strength proc.

HOWEVER, Sigil of Superior Strength DOES NOT proc while Sigil of Superior Geomancy is on cooldown. This is 100% confirmed, I tested it repeatedly many times. It takes exactly 9 seconds after Sigil of Superior Geomancy proc for Sigil of Superior Strength proc to be available again.

Tested Sigil of Superior Geomancy with Superior Sigil of Air. Their cooldowns are SHARED. Thus, Sigil of Superior Geomancy did not proc right after Superior Sigil of Air proc and vice versa.

Most of Sigils "Do something on next hit after weapon swap" work 1 time after you actually equip your weapon from inventory. They dont proc off Attunement Swap, so pretty much useless.

Heavily tested Sigil[s] of Superior Earth with 90% critchance build for consistency:
It has hidden inner cooldown, something close to 0.2 seconds. It never ever procced twice from single cast while spamming Scepter Earth 1. It did reliably proc two times during Scepter Air 1 channel (at the start and at the end).
I suspect all "Proc on crit" Sigils work similarly. Thus, due to inner cooldown it is a bad idea to equip two on-crit proc Sigils at the same time. They will conflict with each other, even if tooltip says they have no cooldown (they still have it hidden 0.2s).

Also noticed a weird bug - Sigil[s] of Superior Earth never ever procced while being slotted into Scepter. It worked fine if slotted into dagger (both mainhand and offhand).
Therefore I recommend slotting all these randomly proccing Sigils into Daggers (or Foci/Staves if you prefer). Or test it to be sure.



TLDR CONCLUSION:

Sigils with cooldowns share cooldowns (i.e. Sigil of Superior Geomancy and Superior Sigil of Air).
Sigils with procs but without cooldowns (i.e. Sigil of Superior Strength) effectively have 0 seconds cooldown timer. So they do not proc if they are paired with cooldown-based proc Sigil and the latter's "Sigil cooldown" is still ticking.
Sigils that "proc" but have no cooldown listed (i.e. Sigil[s] of Superior Earth ) have hidden internal cooldown of ~0.2 seconds. So it is suboptimal to equip any two of those as well.

Thus, it is suboptimal to use cooldown-based proc Sigil - whether it is a crit-proc or swap-proc - with any other proc Sigil.

Edited by ak47_training, 31 October 2012 - 11:35 PM.


#2 ak47_training

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 07:45 AM

Updated first post for MH/OH tests.

#3 ak47_training

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 08:33 AM

Updated the first post again for crit-proccing Sigil testing.

Learned some really useful info. Also added TLDR.

If something is unclear, feel free to ask.

#4 Lazarast

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 09:12 AM

Niuce work here. I'll add a bugg I found:

Sigil of minor corruption adds 5 stacks per kill instead of one.

Cheers.

#5 AetherMcLoud

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 02:44 PM

Sigil of Intelligence DOES work, but gets used up by the minor traits that so some small aoe damage upon attunement switching (fire, air, earth, etc.) which sucks because you'll pretty much always have one of those traits.

#6 ak47_training

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 05:21 PM

I did testing with 0 traits invested, so Sigil of Intelligence proc does not get eaten by some "damage on switch" trait.

#7 abr4

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 12:40 AM

The more you know

#8 ReiKoutei

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 04:00 AM

I would like to ask if you tested with 2 crit proc sigils such as Sigil of Superior Strength on dual weapons. Is it possible to gain 2 might stacks with a single crit or would 1 overwrite the other and only gain 1 might stack

#9 EatThisShoe

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 07:07 AM

When I was testing Sigil of Superior Energy even passive sigils like force and agony were interfering with it. I was only able to make it work running it in both sigil slots simultaneously.

I really hope anet spends more time fixing broken functionality, and maybe clarifying what is intended. I know everyone is discussing class balance, but things like runes and sigils not functioning properly has a significant impact on what builds work.

#10 Giamonti

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 08:09 AM

Sigil of superior leeching does infact work, just not on the golems. It will only activate if you are missing health. Go test it on the Class training dummies in the heart of the mists for proof.

#11 Neij

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 01:52 PM

View PostGiamonti, on 05 September 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

Sigil of superior leeching does infact work, just not on the golems. It will only activate if you are missing health. Go test it on the Class training dummies in the heart of the mists for proof.

Just tested, using d/d and got no HP after swap, only at water, but from water bonuses...
But had sigil of battle (one that adds might). Without sigil of battle, got heal but only once, I guess it has long recharge.

Edited by Neij, 05 September 2012 - 01:55 PM.


#12 Anam Itheoir

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 03:56 PM

The sigils that are based on weapon attacks don't work, but the ones that work on just aoe do.  I think the reason is because it's Weapon based. You are correct, none of the sigils that proc based on attack after weapons swap work.  This makes sense as we are not actually changing the weapons themselves.

#13 Cronstintein

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 08:56 PM

Awesome post man, thanks for checking into these things.  I've been wondering about these, as I'm sure many others have been.

Might have to give might sigil a try!

#14 SuperNova

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 11:24 AM

Ok I was running Hydromancy and Geomancy but I guess only Hydromancy is working.  Did you try with say, dual Hydromancy to see what happened there?  Or is it better to run a simple 5% crit or damage on one hand and an on-switch proc on the other?

Edited by SuperNova, 06 September 2012 - 11:26 AM.


#15 russ

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 01:20 PM

this is good to know, thanks for the info and testing!

#16 entropy3

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 09:26 PM

If you have 2 weapons with battle, will you get 6 stacks of might or do they not overlap?

#17 Ravandyr

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 11:03 PM

View Postentropy3, on 23 September 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

If you have 2 weapons with battle, will you get 6 stacks of might or do they not overlap?

On the contrary...
I equipped superior battle with 2 weapons and it seems I cant proc them at all, I've already switching attunements about 20 times, is it still working for us?

edit:
nvm, that was stupid of me not to try it in battle, it procs well with cd around 10 sec, as to answer question above, no it won't give you 6 stacks

Edited by Ravandyr, 23 September 2012 - 11:09 PM.


#18 Drekor

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 07:24 PM

View PostSuperNova, on 06 September 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

Ok I was running Hydromancy and Geomancy but I guess only Hydromancy is working.  Did you try with say, dual Hydromancy to see what happened there?  Or is it better to run a simple 5% crit or damage on one hand and an on-switch proc on the other?
The cooldowns on sigils put everything on cooldown so stacking 2 active sigils is a complete waste.

#19 Stigma

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 06:00 PM

I thought Sigil of Intelligence does work. At least that's what I hear from sPvP players

#20 ak47_training

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:22 PM

Resurrecting my old thread since it is still useful and the questions I mention are still being asked occasionaly.

Also did some more testing.

Most of Sigils "Do something on next hit after weapon swap" work 1 time after you actually equip your weapon from inventory. They dont proc off Attunement Swap, so pretty much useless.

Heavily tested Sigil[s] of Superior Earth with 90% critchance build for consistency:
It has hidden inner cooldown, something close to 0.2 seconds. It never ever procced twice during single cast  while spamming Scepter Earth 1. It did reliably proc two times during Scepter Air 1 channel (at the start and at the end).
I suspect all "Proc on crit" Sigils work similarly. Thus, due to inner cooldown it is a bad idea to equip two on-crit proc Sigils at the same time. They will conflict with each other, even if tooltip says they have no cooldown (they still have it hidden 0.2s).

Also noticed a weird bug - Sigil[s] of Superior Earth never ever procced while being slotted into Scepter. It worked fine if slotted into dagger (mainhand or offhand).
Therefore I recommend slotting all these randomly proccing Sigils into Daggers (or Foci/Staves if you prefer). Or test it to be sure.

Edited by ak47_training, 31 October 2012 - 11:40 PM.


#21 AetherMcLoud

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:34 AM

AFAIK the on weaponswap nexthit sigils DO work but they proc of the little damage we automatically do when attunement swapping

#22 Bowhunter

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:09 AM

I've tried Sigil of Superior Battle and Sigil of Speed/Stamina on golems. Unless it only works on real players and mobs, it doesn't seem to work otherwise

#23 AetherMcLoud

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:08 AM

View PostBowhunter, on 20 November 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

I've tried Sigil of Superior Battle and Sigil of Speed/Stamina on golems. Unless it only works on real players and mobs, it doesn't seem to work otherwise

Sigil of superiour battle definitely works. I use it all the time.

#24 Chesire

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:48 PM

View PostAetherMcLoud, on 20 November 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

Sigil of superiour battle definitely works. I use it all the time.

Tested and confirmed. Even used it on golems, it does work. You have to be in combat, but it works.




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