634 replies to this topic

[verrda]

So I've been 80 for a few days now and I have to wonder.

Whatever happened to the anti-grind everyone will be equal mantra they went on about for years?

Where are new 80's supposed to go to get their "power-plateaued" stat armor?

Karma vendors are too expensive

Order (Vigil,Priory,Whispers) were not even max stats and are too expensive now. (granted if the price is for the skin, I have no problem with it)

I've yet to figure out how to even start crafting RARE 80 gear let alone max stat gear.

Did I miss a memo?

I thought the "grind" at end-game was going to be for cosmetics

I've lost all incentive to create new characters because I know I have absolutely no hope of building them up once they hit 80 and I've lost incentive to play my 80 because I can't build him up without the most ridiculous grind I have ever seen in a game.

All this on top of waypoint costs and (i guess if you run dungeons you'll die a lot) repairs?

Where did the whole ideal of cosmetic-only rewards go, of the horizontal gear treadmill? The whole idea of not having to grind to get to the fun parts (ie end-game).

I've had a crit build planned for all of my thief when he hit 80 for months now, and if i want to use it and be effective at all I now need to grind 100's of dungeons or thousands of events and don't even know where to get the thief runes.

Forgive me but I'll wait until the game loses all this influence that screams NCSoft was calling the shots here.

Call me when then Anet I have known and loved for years is in charge again.

Damn shame too, practically everything else is perfect about the game. This is just the ONE thing I was looking forward to in GW2 though.

[Lordkrall]

I have yet to get to level 80, but I have done several end-game stuff (WvW, Dungeons, sPvP), without any grinding at all.

You got more than enough Karma for lvl 80 gear by the time you reach level 80 (unless of course you simply rushed to level 80 and skipped most of the events, and that is not ArenaNets fault). You will most likely also have loads of money and materials to craft the gear yourself.

[verrda]

Lordkrall, on 03 September 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

I have yet to get to level 80, but I have done several end-game stuff (WvW, Dungeons, sPvP), without any grinding at all.

You got more than enough Karma for lvl 80 gear by the time you reach level 80 (unless of course you simply rushed to level 80 and skipped most of the events, and that is not ArenaNets fault). You will most likely also have loads of money and materials to craft the gear yourself.

I leveled by running from event to event I finished exactly 25 hearts (in low level zones)

I don't have enough karma to buy one piece, let alone the whole set

I currently have almost 4 gold (after selling ALL my low level mats in the TP) the best way I've seen to make money in this game is to find an exploit or level another character (outside of playing the TP)

Also you say you've done endgame but have you gone into Orr (the zone) or the explorables of Honor of the waves, crucible or arah?

Edited by verrda, 03 September 2012 - 07:32 AM.

[X Ghoul]

Isn't the whole point to grind? If you can reach max level in ~a week, you also expect to get the shiniest armor in the game in the same amount of time? Wait a minute, if this happened then there would be threads "I've got everything in the game. Now What?" Prices are still fluctuating in the trading post (to a ridiculous end so that you can get rich very fast) I would give the game at least another month to see how much grind there actually is.

[Azragarn]

So you got to 80, and you have done all hearts, zone achievements etc. This is where im getting gear and gold.
Also making epics and tokens you need to discover them through trial and error. I personally dont see this as grinding as it is telling the story (via hearts and DE)

Maybe that is just my point of view......

[verrda]

X Ghoul, on 03 September 2012 - 07:32 AM, said:

Isn't the whole point to grind? If you can reach max level in ~a week, you also expect to get the shiniest armor in the game in the same amount of time? Wait a minute, if this happened then there would be threads "I've got everything in the game. Now What?" Prices are still fluctuating in the trading post (to a ridiculous end so that you can get rich very fast) I would give the game at least another month to see how much grind there actually is.

I don't expect the shiniest armor, I expect to be able to build my character properly. Shinnies comes after the fact,

I'm not asking to look amazing, I expect to be able to look incredibly shitty but at least be able to play the way I've been told and looking forward to for years.

[Lupilin]

Don't rush! I'm progressing slowly and enjoying the ride. I enjoy the personal story and once in a while WvWvW.

I think we should give the devs some more time, let them fix those bugs and we will probably see the first content update withing 1-2 months.

[Xynth22]

Uh, that one set you are trying to get is the last set you will ever need. That is what they were talking about with the "power-plateau" gear. After you get that set, you don't have to get anything better and you can do whatever you want and then look for cosmetic gear, but you still have to work for that set. No one ever said they were going to just hand out the best gear in the game just for hitting 80. You can get an easy starter set at level 80 that will see you through the content you need to get the good set but that's about it, and really that should be enough.

Now I'm not totally sure on all the ways of getting the good sets since I'm not 80 yet, but I do know of one. The God Temples. They are raid like events that have various sets of armor require a lot of karma which you can get fairly easily by doing events in Orr.

Edited by Xynth22, 03 September 2012 - 07:53 AM.

[Blackmetal]

Are you serious? You rushed like mad to max level in less than 2 weeks and you're complaining things are too expensive? Did you want everything handed to you as soon as you hit 80. This is an MMO! There is this thing called longevity. It means you continue to play the game for months and gradually ramp up your character. Go back to consoles if you want a 70 hour long RPG.

[Milennin]

Well, that's a disappointment if that's true. They've always said they wanted players to be able to get the highest gear as soon as they get to level 80. Like how it worked in Guild Wars 1 with max level 20 gear.

[Lordkrall]

verrda, on 03 September 2012 - 07:31 AM, said:

I leveled by running from event to event I finished exactly 25 hearts (in low level zones)

I don't have enough karma to buy one piece, let alone the whole set

I currently have almost 4 gold (after selling ALL my low level mats in the TP) the best way I've seen to make money in this game is to find an exploit or level another character (outside of playing the TP)

Also you say you've done endgame but have you gone into Orr (the zone) or the explorables of Honor of the waves, crucible or arah?

I am currently lvl 44. I have over 10 000 karma and about 5g. Clearly you did not do "enough" events during your rush to lvl 80.

[verrda]

Xynth22, on 03 September 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

Uh, that one set you are trying to get is the last set you will ever need. That is what they were talking about with the "power-plateau" gear. After you get that set, you don't have to get anything better and you can do whatever you want and then look for cosmetic gear, but you still have to work for that set. No one ever said they were going to just hand out the best gear in the game just for hitting 80. You can get an easy starter set at level 80 that will see you through the content you need to get the good set but that's about it, and really that should be enough.

Now I'm not totally sure on all the ways of getting the good sets since I'm not 80 yet, but I do know of one. The God Temples. They are raid like events that have various sets of armor require a lot of karma which you can get fairly easily by doing events in Orr.

That is precisely why I want that set, the whole premise of why I got the game was because of the horizontal plateau everyone (includign Anet) raved on about.

You get the best stats and have to work for cosmetics

I know about the Orr karma sets, each piece is 45k karma plus, which if memory serves me right would take roughly 1500 total events in Orr for the set at 300 karma an event (which isn't always the amount you get i know but is a general normalization)

Each event takes roughly 15 to 20 min or so using conservative estimates that's roughly 40 hours of EVENTS for entry-level gear that is not even made for my build. Also, correct if i'm wrong but i'm pretty sure they are yellow. not max stat orange

Blackmetal, on 03 September 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

Are you serious? You rushed like mad to max level in less than 2 weeks and you're complaining things are too expensive? Did you want everything handed to you as soon as you hit 80. This is an MMO! There is this thing called longevity. It means you continue to play the game for months and gradually ramp up your character. Go back to consoles if you want a 70 hour long RPG.

I did not rush, quite the contrary I ran around and did nothing but events in hopes of having karma for at least a few pieces when i hit 80.

[Dreamwalk888]

so for one piece of level 80 karma armor its 42,000 karma. x6 for a whole set =252,000 karma. ohh and just to get rare weapons its 66,000 karma. so i need 2 weps 6 pieces of gear all for 384,000 karma.

And thats not even the best gear in the game.

The dungeons are pretty spendy too. one run thru explorable mode in CM got me 15 tokens. The chest piece alone is 300 tokens FOR ONE PIECE. so yea there is definitly a grind in there.

Edited by Dreamwalk888, 03 September 2012 - 07:54 AM.

[verrda]

Lordkrall, on 03 September 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

I am currently lvl 44. I have over 10 000 karma and about 5g. Clearly you did not do "enough" events during your rush to lvl 80.

10k karma is nothing, I have 30k right now at 80 which is not enough for a single piece of armor

I did not rush to 80, I ran around exploring and doing events if I HAPPENED to finish a heart because of an event that was going on then that couldn't be helped. For the most part however I did not finish hearts.

They only thing I did to gain experience outside of exploring events was leatherworking to keep my gear up to date.

Edited by verrda, 03 September 2012 - 07:51 AM.

[Ritualist]

They mentioned that gear will be harder to get than in GW1, but honestly I didn't expect it to turn into SUCH a chore. I do not understand why they couldn't just create a gear vendor in Orr that sells the most basic looking gear (basically the starter PvP gear) at a few silver each.
It's a GW game, for crying out loud!

EDIT:

Blackmetal, on 03 September 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

Are you serious? You rushed like mad to max level in less than 2 weeks and you're complaining things are too expensive? Did you want everything handed to you as soon as you hit 80. This is an MMO! There is this thing called longevity. It means you continue to play the game for months and gradually ramp up your character. Go back to consoles if you want a 70 hour long RPG.

I got max gear in a matter of hours in GW1.
I put in almost 10k hours.

And I was not alone in wasting insane amount of hours on a game where you didn't need to grind to become more powerful.

Edited by Protoss, 03 September 2012 - 07:53 AM.

[Eon Lilu]

Posting in the I got to lvl 80 and skipped everything and now whining there is nothing to do that I want to do personally even though there is loads I could be doing, whining I dont have enough resources gold and karma because I skipped loads of content thread.



Joking aside, I agree there should be less grind but if you had done everything in the game, all content etc and explored everything etc, you would be alot closer to what your trying to achieve....

Here is a hint....levels mean hardly anything in this game....

Karma and Gold are so easy to get in this game pretty fast if you know how WITH ZERO GRIND, just playing the game and having fun with what you enjoy. For example I just played 10 hours of WvW and doing jumping puzzles, taking all the maps, didn't even notice the time go by, made a ton of gold, a ton of badges and a crap load of karma all while having fun and NO GRIND, even got a siege golem blueprint for free. Im not even counting PVE.....where there is loads more oppertunity to make karma and gold.

Your argument is flawed....

Now complain about the dungeon armor grind and then I will agree with you.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 03 September 2012 - 08:00 AM.

[Dreamwalk888]

btw ive played 100 hours and have 45% map completion with multiple zones at 100% completion. In total ive done 136/301 hearts. For the last 2 days i have been in orr doing the dynamic event chains.   Im sitting on 40k karma right now. So a rough estimate at how long it would take to get a full set of lvl 80 gear is.......960 hours or 40 days of gameplay.

Compared to a game like wow this has 10x more grind. withing the first 2 weeks of cata i had leveled up to 85 and was doing tier 11. That was after probably 50 or so hours of actual gameplay.

So yea they whole no grind concept has gone flying out the window.

Edited by Dreamwalk888, 03 September 2012 - 07:59 AM.

[Meemo]

Lordkrall, on 03 September 2012 - 07:27 AM, said:

I have yet to get to level 80, but I have done several end-game stuff (WvW, Dungeons, sPvP), without any grinding at all.

You got more than enough Karma for lvl 80 gear by the time you reach level 80 (unless of course you simply rushed to level 80 and skipped most of the events, and that is not ArenaNets fault). You will most likely also have loads of money and materials to craft the gear yourself.

Right because 65k x 6 (or more) is totally obtainable by playing normally to level 80.

Dreamwalk888, on 03 September 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

btw ive played 100 hours and have 45% map completion. Im sitting on 40k karma right now. So a rough estimate at how long it would take to get a full set of lvl 80 gear is.......960 hours or 40 days of gameplay. Compared to a game like wow this has 10x more grind. withing the first 2 weeks i had leveled up to 85 and was doing tier 11. That was after probably 50 or so hours of actual gameplay. So yea they whole no grind concept has gone flying out the window.

And that's just for one set.

Edited by Meemo, 03 September 2012 - 07:54 AM.

[verrda]

Eon Lilu, on 03 September 2012 - 07:51 AM, said:

Posting in the I got to lvl 80 and skipped everything thread and now whining there is nothing to do that I want to do personally even though there is loads I could be doing thread.

I'll admit I skipped hearts and vistas, mostly to slow my leveling down and maximize the amount of karma I got while leveling. There is plenty to do, that is not my complaint.

My complaint is that the whole "horizontal-plateau" grind does not exist. It is a gear grind like every other MMO out there (if not worse)

[Lord_Demosthene]

verrda, on 03 September 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

Also, guild wars 1 had no gear grind, it was all cosmetic.

I do however have a problem with havign to grind to simply be able to properly stat and build my character.

OP clearly never played Guild Wars Prophecies shortly after launch. WTB superior absorbtion 83k! No, you had to grind for your stuff - solo farming or UW/FOW if you were really good. The thing is, back in 2005-2007, at the peak of game's popularity, none of this stuff was considered grind, until titles and GWAMM title track was introduced - yeah, the latter was pretty much grind, regardless of whether you played the economy or just sold directly to the market.

Understand this: game's barely launched. We don't know where end-game runes drop and from which mobs, TP has been barely functional for the last few days hence it's difficult to find rare stuff or it's excessively overpriced. At this time in the game, the single, most valuable thing is information - and since you lack it, you feel like others are ripping you off in TP on "extremely rare" gear components, or that the game itself is a grind, when it clearly isn't.

When I played GW:Prophecies beating the last missions with my droks armour (which I barely afforded), and only a single minor axe mastery rune, it felt like a great achievement! My axe was pretty bad as well. But you know what - it didn't hold my progress. I beat the storyline, started farming and eventually outfitted myself in good-looking 15k gear and end-game runes, including the overpriced superior absorb and superior vigor ones.

So yeah, to an old GW veteran like me, who hasn't been spoiled by late-game Nightfall/EoTN economy (where the basic stuff was extremely cheap), the compulsory grind pretty much doesn't exist at the moment. Every MMO launch is like this, demands are infinite, supply is scarce and information is mostly unconfirmed rumour. Exploration time! Take risks and gain knowledge about the game through first-hand experience, that's what the early days in every MMO are about. Learn to enjoy the moment, because soon there will be no secrets, no wild rumours, no great scandals - instead everything will be bloodily predictable and as a result will likely feel much more of a grind than ever before.

Edited by Lord_Demosthene, 03 September 2012 - 08:02 AM.

[dondarrion]

verrda, on 03 September 2012 - 07:31 AM, said:

I leveled by running from event to event I finished exactly 25 hearts (in low level zones)

I don't have enough karma to buy one piece, let alone the whole set

After doing 100% Queensdale and Kessex I had enough Karma for full set from Kessex, and I expect that the karma gain just keeps working the same way as you go on in later levels. The game is 6-7 days old, you're already level 80, go figure!

[Lordkrall]

verrda, on 03 September 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

10k karma is nothing, I have 30k right now at 80 which is not enough for a single piece of armor

I did not rush to 80, I ran around exploring and doing events if I HAPPENED to finish a heart because of an event that was going on then that couldn't be helped. For the most part however I did not finish hearts.

They only thing I did to gain experience outside of exploring events was leatherworking to keep my gear up to date.

You have 3 times as much as me, and I have yet to even do close to most areas or even actually worked to get karma + buying quite a few gear pieces. Clearly you skipped most of the game when "rushing" to level 80.

[verrda]

Lordkrall, on 03 September 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

You have 3 times as much as me, and I have yet to even do close to most areas or even actually worked to get karma + buying quite a few gear pieces. Clearly you skipped most of the game when "rushing" to level 80.

Explain to me how I rushed to 80 when I was deliberately slowing my exp gain down?

[Dreamwalk888]

Lord_Demosthene, on 03 September 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:

OP clearly never played Guild Wars Prophecies shortly after launch. WTB superior absorbtion 83k! No, you had to grind for your stuff - solo farming or UW/FOW if you were really good. The thing is, back in 2005-2007, at the peak of game's popularity, none of this stuff was considered grind, until titles and GWAMM title track was introduced - yeah, the latter was pretty much grind, regardless of whether you played the economy or just sold directly to the market.

Understand this: game's barely launched. We don't know where end-game runes drop and from which mobs, TP has been barely functional for the last few days hence it's difficult to find rare stuff or it's excessively overpriced. At this time in the game, the single, most valuable thing is information - and since you lack it, you feel like others are ripping you off in TP on "extremely rare" gear components, or that the game itself is a grind, when it clearly isn't.

When I played GW:Prophecies beating the last missions with my droks armour (which I barely afforded), and only a single minor axe mastery rune, felt like a great achievement! My axe was pretty bad as well. But you know what - it didn't hold my progress. I beat the storyline, started farming and eventually outfitted myself in good-looking 15k gear and end-game runes, including the overpriced superior absorb and superior vigor ones.

So yeah, to an old GW veteran like me, who hasn't been spoiled by late-game Nightfall/EoTN economy (where the basic stuff was extremely cheap), the compulsory grind pretty much doesn't exist at the moment. Every MMO launch is like this, demands are infinite, supply is scarce and information is mostly unconfirmed rumour. Exploration time! Take risks and gain knowledge about the game through first-hand experience, that's what the early days in every MMO are about. Learn to enjoy the moment, because soon there will be no secrets, no wild rumours, no great scandals - instead everything will be bloodily predictable and as a result will likely feel much more of a grind than ever before.

You should read my posts

Lordkrall, on 03 September 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

You have 3 times as much as me, and I have yet to even do close to most areas or even actually worked to get karma + buying quite a few gear pieces. Clearly you skipped most of the game when "rushing" to level 80.

Please read my posts

Edited by Dreamwalk888, 03 September 2012 - 08:03 AM.

[Lordkrall]

verrda, on 03 September 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

Explain to me how I rushed to 80 when I was deliberately slowing my exp gain down?

And yet you are max level less than 2 weeks after release (or a bit more if you joined the head start) with very little gold and karma.
You HAVE skipped loads of stuff. Simple as that.

[verrda]

Lord_Demosthene, on 03 September 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:

OP clearly never played Guild Wars Prophecies shortly after launch. WTB superior absorbtion 83k! No, you had to grind for your stuff - solo farming or UW/FOW if you were really good. The thing is, back in 2005-2007, at the peak of game's popularity, none of this stuff was considered grind, until titles and GWAMM title track was introduced - yeah, the latter was pretty much grind, regardless of whether you played the economy or just sold directly to the market.

Understand this: game's barely launched. We don't know where end-game runes drop and from which mobs, TP has been barely functional for the last few days hence it's difficult to find rare stuff or it's excessively overpriced. At this time in the game, the single, most valuable thing is information - and since you lack it, you feel like others are ripping you off in TP on "extremely rare" gear components, or that the game itself is a grind, when it clearly isn't.

When I played GW:Prophecies beating the last missions with my droks armour (which I barely afforded), and only a single minor axe mastery rune, it felt like a great achievement! My axe was pretty bad as well. But you know what - it didn't hold my progress. I beat the storyline, started farming and eventually outfitted myself in good-looking 15k gear and end-game runes, including the overpriced superior absorb and superior vigor ones.

So yeah, to an old GW veteran like me, who hasn't been spoiled by late-game Nightfall/EoTN economy (where the basic stuff was extremely cheap), the compulsory grind pretty much doesn't exist at the moment. Every MMO launch is like this, demands are infinite, supply is scarce and information is mostly unconfirmed rumour. Exploration time! Take risks and gain knowledge about the game through first-hand experience, that's what the early days in every MMO are about. Learn to enjoy the moment, because soon there will be no secrets, no wild rumours, no great scandals - instead everything will be bloodily predictable and as a result will likely feel much more of a grind than ever before.

I actually did play prohecies at launch, I started with a mesmer and I got drok's armor as soon as I got there in the campaign (short after hitting level 20 due to ascension) runes for my mesmer were not particularly expensive either.

In my experience the expensive runes were the ones used for farming builds, not the ones for regular play. I never had any issues building my toons in GW1 from my first 3 in proph to each of the two toons I made for nightfall and factions.

Eventually through regular play I got my prestige armor with time. I however had max stat armor long before that point.

[Maddeth]

verrda, on 03 September 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

10k karma is nothing, I have 30k right now at 80 which is not enough for a single piece of armor

I did not rush to 80, I ran around exploring and doing events if I HAPPENED to finish a heart because of an event that was going on then that couldn't be helped. For the most part however I did not finish hearts.

They only thing I did to gain experience outside of exploring events was leatherworking to keep my gear up to date.

Did not rush to 80?

I am level 51 and have 90 hours on my character....

Tell me how you were not rushing if you are 80 already?

[TheGizzy]

verrda, on 03 September 2012 - 07:31 AM, said:

I leveled by running from event to event I finished exactly 25 hearts (in low level zones)

I don't have enough karma to buy one piece, let alone the whole set

I'm currently level 34.  My cooking profession is at 275 - I've spent over 4,000 in karma on cooking supplies.  I've spent about 4g on cooking supplies.

I have also completed:

72/301 Hearts
165/507 Waypoints
207/717 Points of Interest
33/202 Skill Point thingys
78/266 Vistas
I am on Tier 3, 115/500 events in my Achievements > Hero panel.
I have gotten map completion on all 5 racial cities, and on the starter areas for Asuran, Norn & Sylvari.  I'm currently about halfway through the Human area, still have to do Charr.  I've barely ducked my head into a couple of level 15+ areas.  I've done zero WvW or PvP of any kind.

I currently have 3,370 Karma.

I have a feast of things left before me to do, all of which will continue to add to my supply of karma.  Despite being more than half your level, I've earned nearly as much karma as you have at level 80... and it sounds like I've done 3x as much stuff as you have.

You chose to race your way to 80 and skip over the majority of content available to you for earning karma... and now you're complaining you don't have enough to buy the armor you want.  I know it's a foreign concept, but you have to actually get out there and earn it.  No one - including ANet - is going to hand it to you on a silver platter just because you have (80) by your name.  The expectation (completely reasonable) is that you'll get to 80 by playing the game... not by dashing through as fast as you can, skipping as much of the content as possible, and then whining you can't buy the toys you want.

[Lord_Demosthene]

Dreamwalk888, on 03 September 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

You should read my posts

Your definition of grind is amusing Sir, no, you don't have to quote a whole post to write a one-liner, back-handed response.

As for your posts in this thread: in original game grind for cosmetic items and titles, especially some of them (like rare miniatures or GWAMM) was pretty expansive. In GW2 equivalements of that are cultural armours, order armours, dungeon armours, legendary weapons etc. Like I said, game's barely launched, TP has been mostly non-functional and expecting to be perfectly outfitted in exotic gear, when you don't even know how to beat every explorable dungeon or where to find each rune/sigil is a bit absurd. If anything, this game doesn't guide you by hand like WoW does, and you have to go out there, take risks and find the information you need. If you feel like WoW is 10x less grindy, you're free to go back there. GW2 has no sub, so it's not like you'll miss out a lot by coming back here few months later.

@verrda

I were pretty new and stupid at the time, made quite a handful of mistakes and got scammed on fiery dragon swords/drok runs. I suppose that explains it ^^ Early days are funny for this exact reason, you can't plan head, you get to take risks.

Edited by Lord_Demosthene, 03 September 2012 - 08:12 AM.

[Dreamwalk888]

Lordkrall, on 03 September 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

And yet you are max level less than 2 weeks after release (or a bit more if you joined the head start) with very little gold and karma.
You HAVE skipped loads of stuff. Simple as that.

Pleas read all the posts in the thread, the stats ive posts clearly show otherwise