235 replies to this topic

[MazingerZ]

draxynnic, on 16 October 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

Certainly, though, Trahearne could have done with a little more exposure to non-sylvari characters - even if it was just NPCs talking about him.

A million times this.  As an asura, I found the transition between my Order Mentor and this guy jarring.  I went with Order of Whispers and trading up my Mentor for this guy was not very elegant.  Transitioning to an Order from your Destiny's Edge support character was much smoother.  Also, the... emotional toll of what happens on Claw Island probably leads to some rejection of Trahearne.

I've only just completed my trip to the Pale Tree and I must say his role as cleanser of Orr would be much more receptive if I felt I was still destined to kill Zhaitan.  Having him be bequeathed a leafy named greatsword that shoots lightning does not give me great hopes for the future.

[ellyllon]

I was okay with Trahearne at first. I'd met him on my Sylvari, so I recognized him on my first character (human mesmer).  He just didn't make much of an impression on me - I didn't like or dislike him.  (I remember the 'other Firstborn Sylvari' - whose name I don't remember, but the guy who had the sword first - in one of the Sylvari story flashbacks better. That part was touching.)  But after L50, I definitely felt that my personal story was really, 'I run around in Trahearne's personal story,' and that's about it.   If it was going to be about an NPC, there were many I liked better.  Every Asura, every Charr.  All 3 personal story guides (Tybalt & company) were much better.  I thought the Sylvari woman would be irritating, but I grew very fond of her.  I cared about her fate.  Trahearne - by the end, I found myself hoping he'd turn out to be the Hand of Zhaitan in an epic confrontation.

I did *not* want my character to be the Pact leader.  I was very happy to pick a neutral person.  (After all, they do say they can't have anyone from an Order, & I am in an order)  I just wish it had been someone more interesting, & more endearing.

I also found it REALLY weird that you don't learn certain fates by the end.  I expected to meet a widow again, that sort of thing, and I expected to have some revelation concerning our order guides. Those feel like like oversights, something that was supposed to be tied up, & instead, were stories left hanging.  That definitely gave the personal story - latter part - a feeling of being rushed.  (I also find it weird that you can reunite with your human story sister, &... that's that!   It was oddly unemotional - the parents one was better)

Part of the problem with Trahearne, for me, is the slightly Mary Sue-ness of the Sylvari themselves.  In some ways, I really like them. I like my ranger, anyway.  Still, they're a little too 'Indigo Child' to be believable.  I know it's a flip on the 'ancient elf,' but it didn't work all that well for me.

Oh - Destiny's Edge is much better. Everything about them seems more real, & I cared about their group, too.  But the Trahearne Trajectory at the story's end felt very, very flat.

Edited by ellyllon, 22 October 2012 - 08:28 AM.

[draxynnic]

One thing I would certainly agree with (note that this doesn't mean I disagree with anything else unless I've already stated) is that given Trahearne's role, he does seem to tag along a little more than he should. For instance, if you take the Apatia plotline, Trahearne really shouldn't be tagging along after the Battle of Fort Trinity - he's just too important to be spending his time or risking his life that way.

[MazingerZ]

What he should have done is compile me an elite task force from the other two orders.  I really enjoyed working them when I was trying to get that ancient dwarven tome in Forging the Pact.

I am Commander Mazenga, and this is my favorite shop in Lion's Arch.

Edited by MazingerZ, 23 October 2012 - 04:33 PM.

[AKGeo]

FoxBat, on 04 September 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

This is the same old crap we've had since Rurik and Kormir. Some dweebish mary sue steals the spotlight from what was supposed to be *our* personal story. Since his introduction the entire personal story revolves around HIM as the "chosen one," with your character becoming second fiddle praising his greatness. He is a horrible, unwelcome character and worse, an insulting trade for the much better Order mentors, particularly Tybalt.

Spoiler

Tybalt...the dude who lied and took you directly into the pirates' den on your first mission without telling you that it was also HIS first field mission. And almost got you killed repeatedly. I guess his sacrifice at the end made up for it, but I always resented that dude for using me as his personal tool.

[Howl]

AKGeo, on 25 October 2012 - 05:51 PM, said:

Spoiler

Tybalt...the dude who lied and took you directly into the pirates' den on your first mission without telling you that it was also HIS first field mission. And almost got you killed repeatedly. I guess his sacrifice at the end made up for it, but I always resented that dude for using me as his personal tool.

You resented the best character in all of the personal stories ? Wow, I pity you.

And yeah, I absolutely hated Trahearne and me and my friend who played with me through the whole story were praying to the six gods for him to became corrupted by Zhaitan so we could finally put an end to him, I seriously hope he dies in future content.

[AKGeo]

Howl, on 25 October 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

You resented the best character in all of the personal stories ? Wow, I pity you.

And yeah, I absolutely hated Trahearne and me and my friend who played with me through the whole story were praying to the six gods for him to became corrupted by Zhaitan so we could finally put an end to him, I seriously hope he dies in future content.

You pity me for not liking a character, which is completely personal preference and opinion? I pity you for jumping to conclusions about someone's mentality without knowing the whole story. Try not to judge someone based on your own flawed emotions.

the only thing I really didn't like about Trahearne was his voice actor. "Clore island" pissed me the hell off. I know it's an English accent thing, but still annoys me. His attitude, after playing Sylvari, was expected. Sylvari are all innocently self-centered. They feel that their personal destiny takes precedence over everything else. It's a religion. The Pale Tree's dream does this, and I can't fault them for it. And in case you hadn't noticed: he's always relying on YOU to do what needs to be done. He's always asking your opinion, always doing what you decide, and always letting you take point. You ARE the most important person in the story, and if you weren't there, he'd fail, and he lets you know that HE knows it. Not to mention that YOU fully supported the idea that he'd lead, if not coming up with it in the first place.

In life there are always leaders and do-ers. Our characters are the do-ers. And the stories told after all is said and done are about us, not him.

The thing with Tybalt is two-sided...first it's crappy because he used you and neglected to inform you of his experience on the outset. On the other hand, that aspect facilitated your character's recognition in the Whispers order as the one who was tossed into an almost-overwhelming situation and came out on top with an inexperienced "mentor".

Edited by AKGeo, 25 October 2012 - 06:14 PM.

[Pipples]

I personally want to gouge his eyes out, take him to Orr, set him on fire and beat undead to death with his flaming, flailing body every time I do my story quest...

[Howl]

AKGeo, on 25 October 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

You pity me for not liking a character, which is completely personal preference and opinion? I pity you for jumping to conclusions about someone's mentality without knowing the whole story. Try not to judge someone based on your own flawed emotions.

Wow, you are the one jumping to many conclusions there dude, my comment was totally in a fun mood you took it too seriously, I never said anything about your mentality, and what's that about my emotions being 'flawed' ? I don't even... nevermind.

Take a pill and chill out son.

[Chava Blue]

My opinion of Trahearne improved somewhat over the course of the game... only to be completely killed right before the final dungeon.

I felt incredibly betrayed that he just ditched us once he'd achieved his goal of cleansing Orr. The only thing that prevented me from hating him a couple of times before that was that he'd managed to convince me that he cared as much about defeating Zhaitan as my character did. The ending made it seem like that was all an act or something - like he'd just been using the Pact for his own ends because he needed a personal army for his Wyld Hunt. I pretty much lost all respect for him at that point.

I realize it was probably written that way to (much too belatedly) prevent him from stealing the spotlight, but it sometimes seems like the ANet writers forget that their metagame decisions can affect our in-game perceptions of the characters too.

They could have kept it as the players' show without having Trahearne abruptly abandoning the mission once his personal pet project was finished by 1.) making it more clear that he wasn't able to go on because the ritual weakened him so much that he would be a liability for the team instead of an asset, or 2.) having him say something like, "You watched my back all along, my friend, now it's time for me to watch yours" and then showing him holding off the Risen somewhere outside the main action, or 3.) some combination of 1 and 2.

I realize this choice was made for gameplay reasons, but it made the character seem like a jerk. Not necessarily a villain, but it came off to me as a very amoral choice, that he'd been taking advantage and lying by omission all along, which I don't think was the writers' intent.

[razor39999]

Chava Blue, on 25 October 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

/snip

Yep this is the main reason why I ended up going from slightly annoyed by Trahearne to hating him 200 times more than Kormir. His never ending tagging along ends when you most expect him to be there. And the fact they also had a great opportunity to make him more likable by killing him off in Arah story mode, makes it even worse.

The part where Logan almost dies would've been a perfect crowning moment of awesome for Trahearne, having finished his Wyld Hunt, putting his life on the line for the Pact to achieve the first dragon kill. It would also remove his involvement in any future dragon battles very nicely and put Destiny's Edge back in the driving seat. And while those five are far from well written, they're at least somewhat likable at times. The story modes of the other dungeons develop their characters and relationships in a more or less decent way (as much as an MMO can do that).

Edited by razor39999, 26 October 2012 - 10:16 PM.

[DuskWolf]

And the sad part is is that since he's still alive, he's likely going to Mary Sue his way through all the other dragon encounters too. All hail the Lord Grand Leader of the pact, who pisses his planty pants and bravely runs away whenever we actually have to deal with a foe of any true worth. It's honestly like our 'best hope' is lead by Sir Robin from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

This is why I can't see the story as anything more than a bit of a joke.

To be honest? Champions Online has better writing. And that's not because the standard of writing in CO is good, but because it doesn't take itself so seriously, almost to the point of zealotry. If you're going to take your story seriously and expect me too, and it isn't just goofy and corny, then you'd better be able to live up to the promise of that.

It's because of this that my future interest in Guild Wars 2 is forfeit. I was hoping after the prior games that they would have learned something. But as annoying as Kormir mgiht have been, Trahearne is just a billion times worse. This is as bad as the worst triple-A vidyagame writing. It's... I mean... it's Prototype 2 bad.

I guess I just expected better. I came to this game willing to sacrifice some things for a good story. As I am willing to do with Obsidian games. But this wasn't a good story. I just have no interest in the game from level 50 on, and that means that I'm likely not going to have any interest in future content or expansion packs. Not to mention that the earlier stuff, whilst better, was far, far more muted and tame than it should have been. The best of it really was Tybalt.

What would save GW2? Grab the writers who were responsible for the good charr person storyline bits (there were quite a few of those), and Tybalt, and just let them write everything from now on. ArenaNet needs to have a 'restructuring' there if they want me to have any hope in the future.

Edited by DuskWolf, 28 October 2012 - 08:51 PM.

[Red J]

^ IMO, take the team who did ambient dialogues in major cities and let them do the major story. Seriously, these short NPC conversations are hundred times better than all personal story archs combined.

Edited by Red J, 28 October 2012 - 09:58 PM.

[ShenronRen]

Red J, on 28 October 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

^ IMO, take the team who did ambient dialogues in major cities and let them do the major story. Seriously, these short NPC conversations are hundred times better than all personal story archs combined.

I also thought the short convos between npcs in major cities were very well done. Only thing I dont like about Trahearne is the fact that hes introduced with almost no previous confrontation between him and the player.

Edited by Sheron Ren, 28 October 2012 - 10:28 PM.

[Pix0r]

I'm pretty sure Zhaiten is less evil than Trahearne even with the whole corruption of Orr stint.

[FoxBat]

DuskWolf, on 28 October 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

And the sad part is is that since he's still alive, he's likely going to Mary Sue his way through all the other dragon encounters too.

I feel pretty confident that this will not be the case. Not due to negative fan reaction, but just because there's already a legend about the Norn that can damage Jormag's tooth will lead them against the dragon. Additionally the five mentioned dragons already line up just too neatly with the five races. Sylvari starter zone is harrassed with Orr, a Sylvari kills orr. Not hard to see what is going on in Norn and Charr lands respectively. And Primordius was the one who forced Asura to surface in the first place.

Of course this is no guarantee that his replacement will be any better.

Edited by FoxBat, 29 October 2012 - 08:22 AM.

[Bajak Plumm]

Trahearne was never known as man of combat. His change (from shy to leader) can be becouse of what u and him saw in "dream" that pale tree showed you. His fighting skills were never so good, from quest u met him till the last one. He isn't a fighter, nor he was ment to be, he is a great speaker and thats why he was able to creat "trinity".

[Evans]

Isn't saying he abandoned us in our time of need a bit dramatic?
He sent dozens of airships, thousands of troops and pretty much the entire might of Tyria along with you with your character as their commander. What good would it have done for him to tag along?

We was needed at the source because HE needed to do the ritual. He wasn't needed to kill the dragon and he could do more good for us commanding the troops from Fort Trinity than on an airship with us.

As for his tagging along. It's my impression that he's somewhat of a loner. Though he's a fluent speaker and well known all over the world, it seems to me that our hero is one of the few persons he's actually opened up to and I assume he enjoys the company of our hero over the constant bossing around he has to do as leader of the pact.

Not that I'm glorifying him but cut the guy some slack. He played his part and did what he had to do. If anything one should think he was never supposed to be in the danger zones to begin with, the pact would have likely fallen with him. He finished his Wyld hunt, the pact finished it's objective and I'm pretty sure now he'll stand down for someone else to take over. Perhaps now that they trust eachother more, the orders can rule the pact through a common council.

[foozlesprite]

I honestly like the guy.  They handled his introduction/lead-up poorly with all races but Sylvari, and that makes me wonder if it was intended to incorporate him into the story of other races but they lacked the time.  But he never came off as stuck-up to me; in fact quite the opposite, because to me as a sometimes-depressive introvert, it's clear he's an introvert with self-confidence issues.  He often wonders if he's the right person to lead the Pact, but when he's told he is destined to and the position is thrust upon him, he tries to get over his social awkwardness and doubt (you don't become a necromancer because you like people, folks) to be a strong leader for the Pact.  And don't forget he's a powerful mage and extremely knowledgeable about Orr/Zhaitan in his own right.  He played a part in Claw Island, and YOU nominate him as leader.

Kormir ticked me off, but I get where this guy is coming from.  And I get the feeling that since he's now cleansed Orr and taken Zhaitan down, he might hand Pact leadership to someone else for the next dragon.  The Pale Tree only mentioned Orr, and his destiny is now fulfilled.  Hopefully it will be better written/integrated so it doesn't tick as many people off.  I, for one, was quite intrigued to see an introvert in charge, but I realize that more people sympathize with an extrovert, so it's likely the next leader will be one.

[Red J]

It's not about his poor introduction or motives. It's about the terrible, monotonous voice acting that absolutely destroys the character.

[XgreatArtist]

Red J, on 14 November 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

It's not about his poor introduction or motives. It's about the terrible, monotonous voice acting that absolutely destroys the character.

Not just acting. Everything. The moment trahearne steps foot into the personal story, it goes to 'Personal Story: It is all about you' to
'Trahearne's Story: It is all about him'
Suppose the charr lack lumber to craft their siege stuff, they can look into the plant people as an alternative.

[BuddhaKeks]

In my opinion Anet never excelled at writing characters for the main storyline. I'm only going to talk about the Trahearne like helper NPC's as including villians and other supporting character would take too long. It beginns with Prophecies and the horrible group of Devona & friends. To be honest I dislike Devona and Aidan the least, even though they lack characterization. The over three are god-awful and I despised them every time I saw them. Oh and Rurik, oh Rurik, not to mention his AI, he wasn't very well written either, still better than anyone of Devonas group though. I actually felt symphathy for his character when he died (at the same time I enjoyed killing him when he came back, how nice of him to let me finish him off).

Factions brought back Mhenlo and made him even more important... I don't think I have to explain why I hated this choice. Togo on the other hand was so far the best written character, he was exactly what he was supposed to be, an elderly mentor. I respected him and again felt sympathy when he died. He wasn't a great character, but he worked for the story.

Nightfall was the first chapter with actual good characters! Most of the heroes were well written and had personality. Granted the Koss/Melonni/Tahlkora love triangle seemed a little bit shoe-horned in, it didn't take away from their characters. And to be honest, I even think Kormir wasn't as bad as many people claim her to be. Yes she did steal our godhood, and yes she didn't deserve all this power, I had rather liked Dunkoro getting it, but that was impossible for gameplay reasons. But besides that, I liked her and genuinely cared for her when she was taken by Varesh. Kormir did convey being a mother to her men. And yes she did make mistakes, for example waking the Apocrypha, yet she did try to correct those.

Eye of the North had well written characters too, so I had high hopes for GW2. Well if you forget about Gwen, who stills holds my number one spot of most hated NPC. She is as terrible as Trahearne for pretty much the same reasons. She shows up out of nowhere (well you could meet her as a kid, if you were from prophecies, leading to the same problem with Trahearne only having significants to you if you are sylvari), tags along with you, despite having to lead an organization (in her case, in absence of the real leader), annoys the living hell out of you whenever she opens her mouth ("charr are so mean!" QQ) and worst of all, she get's all the credit! Oh what was that sentence in Ghosts of Ascalon, who is the greatest hero of humanity? The one who killed 4 major villians and ended several wars and had friends in many different races and cultures all over the world or the one who just went along on the later missions and founded one town. Oh it's Gwen, yeah makes sense...
Hell I would even say Master Togo was a bigger hero than her (ended 1 war, schooled a new generation of heroes, sacrificed himself to save his half-brother). If anything Trahearne is not the Kormir of GW2, he is the Gwen, which is far far faaaaaar worse.

I can only agree with most people here, I dislike Trahearne for all the reasons named in this thread. To add another one: He is sylvari. Yes, this is a valid reason for me to dislike him. The sylvari race in general feels too Mary Sue-ish for me. You would expect, if a new race shows up, that has such high birth rates, that they can outnumber anyone in a few decades, and is completly alien in behavior to all other races, they others would be, well suspicious to say the least. But no, everywhere I go, if it's Lion's Arch or Frostgourge Sound, everywhere when they talk about sylvari, it's always positive. They are appearently the best blacksmiths, because they don't brag and they are liked by the Kodan because they are in balance.
They simply have no flaw, they are perfectly lawful good and everyone likes them for it. Okay you have the Nightmare Court, but really that's black and white painting. All other races have morally good, evil and neutral characters and that's what makes them work as races. The playable sylvari however are always lawful good, the NC always evil. Nothing in between. Way to make your race interesting.

[citypigeon]

haha i must be crazy. I agree, they really could have introduced Trahearne to our personal stories much more strategically, but I am playing a human Vigil ele and I really like him!

Id say it starts with the fact that I find him the most reliable NPC I've ever had to fight with in missions, and for these reasons:
1. atleast in my experience.. HE NEVER DIES. unlike logan, warmaster forgal, etc, he'll last forever against a million undead, which has been a big help to me. (or its atleast comforting!)
2. if im downed, he can usually rally me up (unless its a raging mob of course)
If I die and rezone at a checkpoint, he either zones with me, or comes running back to me. other NPC partners don't do this.
3. as a squishy ele who usually solos PVE, i really appreciate this. after the numerous missions ive undertaken with him, his presence has become somewhat endearing and reassuring to me.

yea that sounds real cheese, but this brings me to his dialogue. im afraid i personally cant see where some of you are coming from when you accuse his personality being underhandedly pompous, etc.? ive always liked his humble, calming temperament (& I don't quite get the "no personality" complaint- does having personality always require either being super snarky/sassy/dignified/sarcastic/tough/whatever to the utmost extreme? i dont understand lol)

He always struck me as earnest, not self tooting. I've also always liked hearing his commentary on Tyria's backstory throughout my travels, as familiar as it is to me.
(well, the whole "you're their primary target but they're obviously attacking me" comment from Claw Island, is awkwardly contradicting, but with all things considered, i feel that is more simply a writing staff fluke rather than a weakness in Trahearne's personality)

I'd say the moment that really struck me was at some point on I think, Claw Island, he said something to the effect of "I will not abandon you" because of my ability for something or other...And of course, Trahearne continues to express his loyalty/friendship to you throughout the story. I don't recall any other GW 1/2 NPC having that effect of comradery on me, and I just like it (well master togo was pretty boss). I dont know, I just find myself looking forward to fighting with him.

I like the fact that Trahearne becomes the ringleader against Zhaitan/etc- it just makes the most sense. Its too predictable and Mary-sueish for a young hero from Shaemoor who is already affiliated with a Order to uptake that kind of role. I've yet to really feel uprooted from my personal story or whatnot.

But yes- as with alot of things, Anet could've been more graceful with the story flow. And they could've been smarter with how they engineered NPCs interactions. Nevertheless, I truly like Trahearne for what Anet tried to serve him as, but unfortunately they failed at the perfect execution

so as far as his character goes, I may be biased upon being a soloing ele (who also loves British accents haha) but those are my 2cents...

Edited by citypigeon, 25 November 2012 - 08:14 AM.

[Doki20]

citypigeon, on 25 November 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

....And of course, Trahearne continues to express his loyalty/friendship to you throughout the story. I don't recall any other GW 1/2 NPC having that effect of comradery on me, and I just like it (well master togo was pretty boss). I dont know, I just find myself looking forward to fighting with him.
...

This. My first character was a sylvari, thus I have adventured with him before the events of Claw Island, so maybe that's why, but the moment when we reached the Source of Orr and Trehearne said: "Here, at the end, i am glad that it's just you and me. We will cleanse Orr together-as were meant to do."
it just felt good and personal as we have really been through a lot together throughout the story. Though I have to add, the "Fear not this night" special music might have further enchanced this moment. (I actually got afraid of him dying in the cutscene following it with all the "acting like an injured" pose.)

Edited by Doki20, 25 November 2012 - 02:57 PM.

[AKGeo]

Trahearne's attitude is more of a mutual respect with the player character. I'm guessing people here are forgetting completely that he constantly has dialogue saying he doesn't feel worthy of his role, but he's being pushed into it. I guess none of you have ever played a Final Fantasy game.

His voice acting is the only thing that really gets to me.

[Gilles VI]

Doki20, on 25 November 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

This. My first character was a sylvari, thus I have adventured with him before the events of Claw Island, so maybe that's why, but the moment when we reached the Source of Orr and Trehearne said: "Here, at the end, i am glad that it's just you and me. We will cleanse Orr together-as were meant to do."
it just felt good and personal as we have really been through a lot together throughout the story. Though I have to add, the "Fear not this night" special music might have further enchanced this moment. (I actually got afraid of him dying in the cutscene following it with all the "acting like an injured" pose.)

Hey, finally someonewho feels the same way as me!

[chrisbdrake]

Red J, on 28 October 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

^ IMO, take the team who did ambient dialogues in major cities and let them do the major story. Seriously, these short NPC conversations are hundred times better than all personal story archs combined.

The catnapping vs. kidnapping conversation in Blazeridge Steppes makes me giggle every time.

[MazingerZ]

I just finished up Sylvari storyline 1-30.

He's not nearly as shoe-horned at that point and I can see how Sylvari players might feel more comfortable with him.

[ShezuTsukai]

I'm hoping the next novel will bridge the gap for Traherne. The players that read the Destiny's Edge novel could relate on a much deeper level to the characters because it takes at least a book or two to really flesh out a character.

LotT is an excellent example because we don't really know Frodo until the second book. Not to mention how Samwise really starts popping as a character for more than just comedic value at the same time.

So my hope is the third book (which should have coincided release of GW2 imho) will flesh out more of the story line characters.

[Kid]

While Traherne can be a bit of Mary Sueish, I find all members of Destiny's Edge to be extremely aggravating. Traherne reminds me of Rurik and Kormir, but those two can be tolerable to a certain point (Rurik died, then we got to kill him again and we became Kormir's chosen, so it was all good ). Destiny's Edge members, on the other hand, remind me of endless whining of Gwen whenever they are all together.

Then the end cinematic shows our character becomes another member of this sorry excuse of a legendary group. Really? A group that failed miserably when a single member decided to go AWOL and later blame one another to no end like children arguing at playground (Yes, I did dungeons storyline, but story that led up to the reunion looks too much like a slash fic to me.)? It left a bad taste in my mouth, to be honest.

Still, that is just me and my opinion.

Edited by Kid, 29 November 2012 - 04:22 AM.