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Anyone else feel like Trahearne is a bit contrived? (Spoilers maybe?)


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#211 Flaming_Foxx

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:24 AM

View PostMazingerZ, on 26 November 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

I just finished up Sylvari storyline 1-30.

He's not nearly as shoe-horned at that point and I can see how Sylvari players might feel more comfortable with him.

^--- This.
Going through the Sylvari storyline and meeting Trahearne you do end up feeling like he is someone with an incredible weight on his shoulders - it makes him feel more huma.... I mean, Sylvari.

#212 Red J

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:22 AM

True, however, after Claw Island, he and Pale Tree still treat our sylvari PC like if they never met him before. It broke last pieces of immersion I had to that point.

#213 Shadow209

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 10:38 AM

It's even worse, when you're not Sylvari. My first 2 chars are sylvari and it just felt a bit strange. I never liked Trahearne, so I was like "no, not he, why?". It did feel like a little cut in the storyline, but thats it.

Now my second alt is human and I just reached this point. It's like the story ends here and a completely new one starts.

If you play sylvari/vigil it's not too bad, at least it feels like one story, but if you play human/priory that mission feels completely out of place, like a completely new storyline, that has nothing to do with what happened before.

In my opinion, the story in GW2 is great until the pact is formed. From that point on it's just bad.

Also, why did Sieran hav to die? It was quite fine, when Kersson  died, that completely made sense, since that's what the vigil are about. When Tybalt died in the whispers story, I didn't really care either, because imho the whispers storyline is the weakest of all orders, but that's just my opinion.
But the priory story was cool, and I really liked Sieran. It's so sad, she had to die :(

#214 Red J

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 11:48 AM

How could... you... not like Tybalt? :o

Whispers story is just a bit more light-hearted than the rest, at least at first. Which is fine, IMO. It's not like the rest of the personal story could be taken any more seriously.

#215 Shadow209

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:05 PM

I like Tybalt, but for me there was nothing special about the story.
Maybe it was, because I played it on my first alt, immidiately after reachig lvl 80 with my main. So when I first saw Tybalt, I was like "Oh, well, He will be the one, who dies this time".

#216 radamant011

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 01:11 PM

God i hate that guy! Talks nonsense all the time and he does that a lot! Too bad there is no option to perform some kind of fatality on him mortal kombat style. And i too dislike being Trahearne`s lackey.

#217 Trei

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:29 AM

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#218 AKGeo

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 09:00 PM

View PostRed J, on 29 November 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

How could... you... not like Tybalt? :o

Whispers story is just a bit more light-hearted than the rest, at least at first. Which is fine, IMO. It's not like the rest of the personal story could be taken any more seriously.

Sieran was my favorite of the three by far. Just completed the three lines so I could have a balanced view of them...and Tybalt is still at the bottom of the list. He omitted a fact that gave my character a false sense of security being new to the field (for the order, anyway) thinking I had experienced backup.

At least Sieran and Forgal were up-front and honest (for the most part). Sieran's short bout of omission of truth could be chalked up to her over-eagerness to explore. I felt a closer bond with her than I did with the other two.

And yes, I get that the Order of Whispers is designed to hide facts. But I believe being an initiate gives me the right to know if my mentor is green in the field and I'll have to bail his ass out of a sticky spot.

Forgal is a crack-up. I'd say his story was the most light-hearted...granted only one of the missions had the fun soundtrack behind it, but his attitude was amazingly fresh. Old man...gotta love it.

#219 Dasryn

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 04:17 PM

i just met Trahearne in the defense of claw island, and honestly idk what all the hullabaloo is about.  he's not particularly likeable but i dont hate him.

he's just another character.

#220 MazingerZ

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 10:28 PM

View PostRickter, on 08 December 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

i just met Trahearne in the defense of claw island, and honestly idk what all the hullabaloo is about.  he's not particularly likeable but i dont hate him.

he's just another character.

Play it further.  Around level 70.
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#221 Atticus

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 10:58 PM

View PostRickter, on 08 December 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

i just met Trahearne in the defense of claw island, and honestly idk what all the hullabaloo is about.  he's not particularly likeable but i dont hate him.

he's just another character.

Yea, you really need to "enjoy" at least another 10 levels with him and you'll see what we're all talking about

#222 Kyln

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 05:18 AM

Just not seeing the hate. I had no major problems with the character. We know about the Wyld Hunts as characters, Trahearne is not a part of the orders, making hi ideal to lead the pact. From a lore standpoint it gives a npc first name billing for continuity sake. This isn't a single player game where we get to put our own names in the history books. One of the first born devoting his life to restoring Orr, removing zhaitan? Sure, makes sense to me. His job was more political than pure strategy anyways. He had the orders experts to draw from when making decisions and unrivaled first had knowledge of Orr. I think a character with respect from all three orders and an established role in the game world (firstborn, wyld hunt) makes more sense than some freshly minted hero and member of one of the orders taking charge of the united front against the Elder Dragon.

The problem is less Trahearne and more the framework of story telling in gw2.

#223 Trei

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 05:26 AM

View PostRickter, on 08 December 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

i just met Trahearne in the defense of claw island, and honestly idk what all the hullabaloo is about.  he's not particularly likeable but i dont hate him.

he's just another character.
That's one of the problems lol...

The grand Marshall in command of the greatest alliance in 250 years... Is just another character.

Edited by Trei, 12 December 2012 - 05:33 AM.


#224 DuskWolf

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:07 PM

The problem with "Trey-Trey" is how flat and one-dimensional he is.

He's so wooden, and no, being Sylvari is not an excuse for such. Don't even try that! You could have him voice-acted by Microsoft Sam and you'd get more emotion and charm. And don't give me that it's because he's a character who feels he needs to distance himself, either, because characters like that can evolve. Look at the evolution of Legion in the Mass Effect series. But nothing happens with Trahearne. He's entirely unlikeable and the most forgettable character I've seen in years. He's boring enough to be a Skyrim companion. Good grief.

And he's not Vulcan, because Tuvok of Voyager frequently managed to be more passionate and thoughtful. He's a robot, a heartless, unfeeling robot, reading lines off a board. I'm annoyed by him for being in a situation where he needs to care and he doesn't. There's no emotion, there's no empathy, there's no trauma from all the people dying, there's no evolution. There's no moment where Trahearne drags you aside and admits being on the verge of emotional collapse due to all the responsibilities placed upon his shoulders. The kind of war that the Pact are involved in is horrific, and he just doesn't care.

People die, Trahearne doesn't care. He's Trahearne. And all Trahearne thinks about is how much glory Trahearne can hog! Except right at the end, where you need aid the most (the final fight against Zhaitan), he's nowhere to be seen! Oh, so now he's being a coward. He's been hiding behind your skirt for the majority of your storyline, claiming credit for everything you do, and just being a smarmy git. And...

HE'S RIMMER.

Has anyone here ever watched Red Dwarf?

Frankly, I would rather punch his smug, wooden face than than go and fight Elder Dragons. And that's not how you should be feeling about a military leader. ArenaNet, please... salvage this by saying that he was a puppet of Kralkatorrik or something who was using him and his position of power to take out one of his rivals. LET US KILL HIM.

#225 draxynnic

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:23 PM

Uh, are we talking about the same Trahearne here? I recall quite a few times where he expresses doubt, and when the ritual in Against the Corruption doesn't work as planned he's on the verge of breaking down ("All this, all these lives, wasted. All for nothing.") until the PC reminds him of the mention of the "Source" in the Pale Tree's vision, and there are other circumstances in which he expresses grief for the fallen.

Yes, his voice acting could have been better, but I don't expect him to get into any fights with his clone over which of two practically identical shades of grey to paint his room.
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#226 Bryant Again

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 01:26 PM

View PostDuskWolf, on 12 December 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

HE'S RIMMER.

Has anyone here ever watched Red Dwarf?

Except Rimmer's more likable :)
God I love that smeg head...

Edited by Mockingjay74, 17 December 2012 - 05:48 PM.
Please use the default font.


#227 Evans

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 07:30 AM

View Postdraxynnic, on 12 December 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

Uh, are we talking about the same Trahearne here? I recall quite a few times where he expresses doubt, and when the ritual in Against the Corruption doesn't work as planned he's on the verge of breaking down ("All this, all these lives, wasted. All for nothing.") until the PC reminds him of the mention of the "Source" in the Pale Tree's vision, and there are other circumstances in which he expresses grief for the fallen.

Yes, his voice acting could have been better, but I don't expect him to get into any fights with his clone over which of two practically identical shades of grey to paint his room.

Yes, this and even if you don't want it to be brought up Duskwolf, you can't deny him being a Sylvari either. Sylvari don't look at death like the other races do. On top of that he's a Necromancer. He only cares because of his Ventari morals. Knowing that such losses are bad or feeling the pain of it are two completely different things. I don't think Trahearne feels it.

Imho the only thing you can accuse Trahearne of is flat voice acting. Well that and the fact that he's a loner who his apparently the most charismatic person in the world but sounds nothing like it.

#228 MazingerZ

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 06:53 PM

View PostEvans, on 17 December 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

Yes, this and even if you don't want it to be brought up Duskwolf, you can't deny him being a Sylvari either. Sylvari don't look at death like the other races do. On top of that he's a Necromancer. He only cares because of his Ventari morals. Knowing that such losses are bad or feeling the pain of it are two completely different things. I don't think Trahearne feels it.

Imho the only thing you can accuse Trahearne of is flat voice acting. Well that and the fact that he's a loner who his apparently the most charismatic person in the world but sounds nothing like it.

Yeah.  Everyone trusts Trahearne.  Unless it's relevant to the plot not to.  IE: Forging the Pact.

Beyond that, everyone was willing to follow him until he asked them to work together.

I can understand him having clout with the Sylvari as a Firstborn.  I cannot understand how the rest of the world does.

Riel trusts him because of a one-off comment about putting down the former Master of Whispers.

I'm surprised at the faith Gixx puts in him.

Dunno about Almorra, never played that far.
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#229 Wikid

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 07:06 PM

I think ANet pushes the story too much. Most of the story arches feel rushed. The character development is almost non-existent, the pacing awful and a serious lack of connection with any character including your own. I've been through 3 different human story arches and 2 Asuran and one for both the Charr and Sylvari. I do not think any of the story lines are interesting, compelling or make any real sense what so ever.

#230 Nalano

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 07:15 PM

Why is Trahearne the supreme leader and not somebody else?

Let's forget for a moment about destiny and all that for a second and focus on one thing: His non-affiliation.

I'm not talking about the fact that he didn't join any of the Orders of Tyria.

He's a Sylvari. That's why.

The whole story circles around how tenuous the alliances are between the nations - not just between these international organizations, but between the nations themselves - and how much unity is paramount above all else. The Norn aren't unified. The Charr hate humans, and the humans distrust Charr. The Asura are mistrusted by everybody and for good reason. Just about the only group that nobody feels threatened by are the cherubic, inquisitive Sylvari.

They're the perfect diplomatic middlemen, having absolutely no political baggage (being born yesterday) and with no guile (being born yesterday). So, Trahearne's quite literally sent by the tree, who is as peaceful as a non-pacifist can be, to get everybody to agree.

This isn't just in the personal storyline, either. Look at Destiny's Edge, with the epic group of racial representatives who tried and failed to kill the dragon the first time:

The human hates the Charr.
The Asuran hates the Norn.

And what is Caithe, the Sylvari, always saying? "Why can't we all just get along?"

So Trahearne's boring. Boring is better than offensive. So he's a nobody. That means there's never been a scandal. He's practically a cipher when it comes to how he's viewed: Nebbish and unassailable.

He's the perfect man, because he isn't one.

#231 draxynnic

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 12:11 AM

This is an aside, but I don't think anyone really feels threatened by the norn as a nation, simply because they aren't unified enough to assault anyone else.

However, that same trait would make them poor leaders - because there are no norn that have experience leading anything much larger than a hunting party (maybe the captain of the Wolfborn) and the asura at least seem to regard norn as the least intelligent of the five major races. The sylvari, on the other hand, the asura seem to come closest to respecting after their initial mistakes, so the asura might begrudgingly follow a sylvari when they wouldn't follow a 'moronic' norn or bookah.
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#232 Marc1k1

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 02:43 AM

View PostZipzo, on 04 September 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

First you're the new and elite hot shot of your corresponding order, but eventually you meet up with Trahearne, a Sylvari scholar who is greatly respected for his knowledge but not even close for his lack of combat skills (which I guess he develops over time after meeting you)...

The thing I don't get his how he arbitrarily appoints himself in charge of the new "trinity" order, literally self-proclaims himself the Marshal, and you as second in command. It seems like his character went from timid/shy and somewhat conservative scholar, to a war hero - experienced leader of nations.

I just feel like his character got warped a little bit, when you first meet him you don't think "Oh yeah, he's going to be the one". If anything you'd think it'd be...well...yourself.

I don't know, maybe I'm over thinking it, it just personally bothers me (lore-wise) how he is literally completely self-proclaimed, and never struck me nor was meant to strike anyone as a combat-ready and battle hardened "Marshal" ready to lead the races to freedom from Zhaitan.

I agree mostly, while playing as a Norn (and evidently it being my first character) he did feel like a guy who just kinda showed and started being 'The Chosen One' and my own character got pushed to the side-lines (kind of) where-as previously Traherne just seemed like another character who would come and go and maybe be at the end of the story with others my character met along the way.

Its easy to imagine the story was a bit rushed and personally I would of liked it more if the story took you all around Tyria to each zone giving you more of a reason to explore each area rather than just doing it for the world explorer achievement/title (that's not to say you can't just do that for fun however)

As for Trahearne as a character I feel he is... okay at first but does indeed jump into the position quickly (this I suppose is made easier to believe with prior meetings with him as a Sylvari, as others have mentioned) and other than that my only gripe with him is his voice actor isn't all that great sometimes and can drone a little.

#233 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:38 AM

View PostRed J, on 29 November 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

True, however, after Claw Island, he and Pale Tree still treat our sylvari PC like if they never met him before. It broke last pieces of immersion I had to that point.
This is actually a bug.

Play a charr. During A Light in the Darkness, a charr character can ask if going into the Dream of Dreams during that step is like when "Caithe helped me fight the Nightmare before I awakened"

Yeah, was rather weird when I first did the mission, on my charr. And then the second time, on my sylvari.

And at Claw Island, he does say hello to the sylvari character in a short cinematic, but then it goes to the typical everyone else's cinematic - which I suspect is also a bug, or was done to conserve on resource spending (aka corner cutting), and thus is no fault upon the character Trahearne.

View PostDuskWolf, on 12 December 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

There's no emotion, there's no empathy, there's no trauma from all the people dying, there's no evolution. There's no moment where Trahearne drags you aside and admits being on the verge of emotional collapse due to all the responsibilities placed upon his shoulders.
I disagree. A lot.

Yes, his voice actor was rather... bad. And that's probably putting it gently. But that's really the only bad thing about him.

He does have emotion (not in his speaking habit, but in how he acts). He shows concern during Forging the Pact, he shows hesitation in A Light in the Darkness, he shows depession in Against the Corruption (too fast and too much though), and he shows relief in Victory or Death. If that isn't showing emotion, I don't know what is. The issue is that the voice actor didn't portray it well enough.

And I do think there's evolution in his character. Especially for sylvari characters.

He starts with the external show of confidence in himself and what he's doing like any other expert in the field, but when Claw Island is attacked (specifically during A Light in the Darkness and up til the retaking of Claw Island) he looks back on his 23 years of life and realizes... all that pervious confidence was a bluff - to him and to others - that though he may be an expert in the field, he's never actually worked towards his goals, and always backed away from them, hesitating because he feared failure. And this fear hung onto him all the way through - and it manifested fully when his attempts at the royal tomb to cleanse Orr failed.

I think the biggest issue for people like you is that Trahearne isn't in the front lines enough - and this is because he's a bloody general. You don't have generals in the front lines except when they're needed to be in the front lines. And to clarify - by people like you, I mean people who don't seem to see the full story (whatever the reason).

View PostDuskWolf, on 12 December 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

And all Trahearne thinks about is how much glory Trahearne can hog! Except right at the end, where you need aid the most (the final fight against Zhaitan), he's nowhere to be seen!
And this is proof you don't pay attention to the storyline.

Trahearne didn't care for glory or any of that. He led the Pact not to get his name written down in history, but because he felt like he must - because if he didn't, well, who would? He never wanted to lead the Pact until convinced by the Pale Tree and the player character. That's a glory hog to you? I don't want to see what someone like all those who wanted their characters to become a god in Kormir's stead would be if not a glory hog.

And Trahearne outright stated that he wasn't present in the fight against Zhaitan because he was seeing to the cleansing of Orr elsewhere His duties as Marshal prevented him from being in the final battle (not like he'd be of any help, since none of the NPCs were of any, not even Destiny's Edge, but this is more of a mechanical issue).


Really, all this Trahearne hate is more ridiculous than all that Kormir hate. Just because of some bad voice acting or bugs in/bad storytelling, Trahearne gets all this hate. Its not Trahearne who deserves the hatred, its whoever voice acted him (I suspect VoiceMaker v2.0.9), and (less so) the developers who worked on continuity in making old decisions important later on (something that held a lot of bugs).

View PostMazingerZ, on 17 December 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

Yeah.  Everyone trusts Trahearne.  Unless it's relevant to the plot not to.  IE: Forging the Pact.
It's not so much that they don't trust Trahearn. It's that they're warry of Trahearne being able to lead an army under pressure, because he holds no military experience.

They always trusted Trahearne for his knowledge on Orr and the risen. Even during Forging the Pact. But they've always viewed him as a scholar, not a fighter - even he himself acknowledges this fact.

View PostMazingerZ, on 17 December 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

Riel trusts him because of a one-off comment about putting down the former Master of Whispers.

I'm surprised at the faith Gixx puts in him.

Dunno about Almorra, never played that far.
Its got mostly to do with how much aid Trahearne has put into fighting the Risen off-screen before the start of the game. I don't remember if Almorra ever gave a specific reason for why she trusts Trahearne, but I don't think there was one - it was because of what Forgal said: Trahearne has helped the Vigil devise means to kill any undead they come across and show him. For Gixx, I haven't played far enough, and Riel trusts him not only for helping killing a dragon-corrupted former Master of Whispers, but also because he worked with the Whispers just as he did the Vigil and Priory, and he knows how to keep a secret (the fact Riel's the Master of Whispers).

View PostWikid, on 17 December 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

I think ANet pushes the story too much. Most of the story arches feel rushed. The character development is almost non-existent, the pacing awful and a serious lack of connection with any character including your own. I've been through 3 different human story arches and 2 Asuran and one for both the Charr and Sylvari. I do not think any of the story lines are interesting, compelling or make any real sense what so ever.
While I disagree with the last sentence, I do agree that the story arcs (not arches) were rushed. I wouldn't mind them being twice the length, even at half the story possibilities.

Thoug in regards to Trahearne, the best thing Anet could have done was make him part of the non-sylvari races' lvl 20-30 storylines in some form.

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#234 nilzardo

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:53 AM

Trahearne was actually rather good from a lore perspective. I'd love to say all the Trahearne hating bandwagon jumpers are just egotistical plebeians with no regard for the lore, but that wouldn't be fair now, would it?

So can we just bury this thread already... please?

#235 draxynnic

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:18 AM

It's been a while, but I don't recall there being any particular reason that the Priory trusts Trahearne except that he's the foremost scholar on Orr and they know that, and thus trust him to know his stuff. A professional respect rather than a recognition of some past favour.
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#236 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 07:28 PM

It's definitely morethan just that they're contemporaries - it is outright stated that Trahearne worked with each order in the past, and this is where that trust came from.

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