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Anyone else feel like Trahearne is a bit contrived? (Spoilers maybe?)


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#61 Osred

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 04:25 PM

I thought it couldnt happen but I hate Trahearne more than Kormir. All he does is sit back and make you do all the actual work. Watch as good and well written characters get killed off just so Anet can shove Trahearne down our throats as if hes the god damn massiah.

I though Anet would learn from Rurik. Trahearne is just a god damn mary sue who takes over your story and suddenly its all about him.

#62 Supreme

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:28 PM

View PostDoki20, on 10 September 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

Erm.. you know that he was studying Orr for at least a decade? This, and the fact that he had the whole Durmond Priory at his disposal to fill him in with any other Orr knowledge they have found.

If you put these together, then it's not that "magical" that he had this sort of information.

I guess as a Vigil Charr, I was never told he had the Priory at his disposal, but there had to be others that knew more about Orr then a Sylvari, especially since he's not that old.And it's not as if the dreams of other sylvari would have told him since he's a firstborn.

He still seems to pop out "useful" information at the most random of times. He just kind-of knows everything as the plot demands.

#63 JasmineMcCoy

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:40 PM

I really don't get why so many people are upset at Trahearne and not them being the Marshal :/ Would you really have preferred it the other way around?  To sit back and survey the fort construction, make sure everything is functional, decide from which site to get lumber, make encouraging speeches to soldiers, etc... or go kill bad guys, retrieve artifacts, discover, explore? I might be mistaken of course, but I would imagine a Marshal having to do much more of the former rather than the later.
Also, the three orders, who know him well and respect him, agreed that he was the best for the job, due to the required neutrality, personally I don't see why it matters much if your char knowns him before that at all. Saying he isn't good enough for it is like, for example, joining the priory and deciding Seiran should be the leader, not Gixx.
Of course if the story could have been told better or the char could have had more depth is another point and I won't argue that.

Edited by JasmineMcCoy, 10 September 2012 - 05:41 PM.


#64 Milennin

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:49 PM

I don't mind the character all that much, but I agree some of the things he says do come accross rather bad.

#65 KerenRhys

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 06:54 PM

View PostJasmineMcCoy, on 10 September 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

I really don't get why so many people are upset at Trahearne and not them being the Marshal :/ Would you really have preferred it the other way around?  To sit back and survey the fort construction, make sure everything is functional, decide from which site to get lumber, make encouraging speeches to soldiers, etc... or go kill bad guys, retrieve artifacts, discover, explore? I might be mistaken of course, but I would imagine a Marshal having to do much more of the former rather than the later.
Also, the three orders, who know him well and respect him, agreed that he was the best for the job, due to the required neutrality, personally I don't see why it matters much if your char knowns him before that at all. Saying he isn't good enough for it is like, for example, joining the priory and deciding Seiran should be the leader, not Gixx.
Of course if the story could have been told better or the char could have had more depth is another point and I won't argue that.

As I understand it from this thread and the reddit one (since I'm not there in the story yet), the problem most people seem to have is not that Traeharne take the marshal place and that we are "only" the second in command.

The thing I feel bothers a lot of people is that at the point where Traeharne enter the story, it isn't your personal story anymore, but Traeharne's personal story. Everything seems to revolve around him.

I'm not saying it's true or anything, since I have not experienced it myself for the moment, but I know that if I get the same feeling, it will bother me a lot. I want my personal story be about me, even if it's about "small" things, not about a NPC (otherwise I'll go read a book or watch a movie).

Edited by KerenRhys, 10 September 2012 - 06:55 PM.


#66 Doki20

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:09 PM

View PostSupreme, on 10 September 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

I guess as a Vigil Charr, I was never told he had the Priory at his disposal, but there had to be others that knew more about Orr then a Sylvari, especially since he's not that old.And it's not as if the dreams of other sylvari would have told him since he's a firstborn.

He still seems to pop out "useful" information at the most random of times. He just kind-of knows everything as the plot demands.

I thought the fact that he is the Marshal of the combined forces of the Orders is enough clue for that... I doubt he would be rejected if he would ask for some old tomes about Orr.

#67 AsgarZigel

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:39 PM

I don't mind that Trahearne is the leader of the pact. It feels a bit rushed, like most things in the story, but it gets the point across that he takes up the responsibility of actually doing something after just studying Orr. It is questionable why he becomes the leader of a military organisation when he doesn't have much military experience, but that could be hand-waved away by the dream of dreams somehow, since the Tree seems to be able to share knowledge at will.

What really gets me about him is the voice acting, he is just... so boring. xD
It works well enough for a scholar, but when he is supposed to develop into the awesome general it just doesn't work. So I can see the concept working... but it isn't well executed I think.

#68 Matthew Browne

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:54 PM

I don't like him. Simply put, he's a badly written plot device. I don't mind not being the Marshal, I wasn't expecting to become the Marshal actually, I was hoping to continue to act beneath my Order's advice, even after the Pact forms I was expecting to act Whispery, or Vigil-esque or Priory-esque. Nevertheless, he is just introduced too late to non-sylvari characters. They kill off an extraordinary character and introduce a subpar and boring firstborn who could be so much more. We should've heard from him anywhere along the story, like a sylvari that had the balls to go into Orr alone and survive for years without any previous survival experience (as he was a firstborn).

It's not like I hate the character. I hate it for what it could have been if they fleshed it out more. Trahearne just comes across as a bland boring sylvari, even moreso when compared to our previous companions or even Destiny's Edge. I have listened to all cutscenes, I have interacted everytime I could to read his dialogue and I see so much room for improvement and character development that I can't feel but sad at how it turned out. And I'll agree his voice acting while not terribad, it is tedious. Drowzy, monotone. It hasn't got any emotion whatsoever.

This is all opinion, mind you. Reading through this thread there's people who despise him, people who don't mind him, and people who like him. This is not a Logan Thackeray where he can be interesting as a character but his much discussed actions turn him into a despicable guy for some; this is just a badly fleshed out character.

#69 Supreme

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 10:44 PM

View PostDoki20, on 10 September 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

I thought the fact that he is the Marshal of the combined forces of the Orders is enough clue for that... I doubt he would be rejected if he would ask for some old tomes about Orr.

I would think he was too busy being a soldier, to return to being a scholar.

Trahearne didn't need to be all-knowing. Explain it away all you like, but they easily could have just brought a priory member that knows about Lyssa's rituals or something of that sort.

The point is, that they mary sue'd him to death, making him VERY powerful, VERY smart, VERY charismatic, with virtually no flaws.

I loved the story up to Trahearne though. In fact if he wasn't such a huge focus, I would have loved it even more, with what Shell Shock mission could have brought to the table to your character. Can you imagine if your character was going through the horrors of war and it really WAS an accident? Way better story then "We need to get to Trahearne because he's so awesome lolol undead mesmer".

Edited by Supreme, 10 September 2012 - 10:46 PM.


#70 Zipzo

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:10 PM

I think it's really easy to make this in to a flawed perception of the player...that we shouldn't have to feel like we're the "center of the universe" but that's missing the point really...

Trahearne just never earned my respect as a character. This could partly be because I wasn't a Sylvari...but every race eventually has to deal with him becoming the Marshal and his word becoming the best course of action (to which he usually consults you anyway).

It makes killing off Forgal (for the vigil path at least) seem like such a criminal act of story-telling...

Walking around and studying Orr for a few years, arguably, still doesn't have me thinking he's qualified. At best he's suited for the books or sitting in the town library, reeling off all the important information as soon as it's needed or required to help make a decision. I liked him enough to allow him that...but the pact military leader? Generals and Commanders have people that tell them information so they can make a decision...and the lot of you that accept Trahearne's position may not realize that it's backward here...he's the one that knows all the information and we're the one that actually gets all the practical experience.

Who says that if we were Marshal that we would stand around doing nothing (in comparison to what the PC does) like he did? Maybe we would be a Marshal that gits er dun.

Another poster in this thread really nails it, the story gravitates towards revolving around Trahearne in a way that feels insulting (IMO) to my personal story. That's not a comment meant to mean I'm selfish or entitled...it's just meant to say, "Hey, this is MY story right?".

Edited by Zipzo, 10 September 2012 - 11:12 PM.


#71 Doki20

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 04:29 AM

View PostSupreme, on 10 September 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

I would think he was too busy being a soldier, to return to being a scholar.

Trahearne didn't need to be all-knowing. Explain it away all you like, but they easily could have just brought a priory member that knows about Lyssa's rituals or something of that sort.

The point is, that they mary sue'd him to death, making him VERY powerful, VERY smart, VERY charismatic, with virtually no flaws.
...

He wasn't really a soldier, he just told others what to do and those done it, other than that he could have easily had priory members to inform him about the details he will need to know in the backstage beforehand.

Maybe you missed that mission, but when we ventured into Grenth's first temple in Tyria, we actually had a Priory member with us..

Also.. it wasn't him that was powerful, it was Caladbolg. I would say knowledgeable, not smart. Asuras are smart. Regarding charismatic... he doubts himself quite often in front of the player character so if I were you I would dismiss that last statement of yours.

Edited by Doki20, 11 September 2012 - 04:31 AM.


#72 Supreme

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 05:39 AM

View PostDoki20, on 11 September 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

Also.. it wasn't him that was powerful, it was Caladbolg. I would say knowledgeable, not smart. Asuras are smart. Regarding charismatic... he doubts himself quite often in front of the player character so if I were you I would dismiss that last statement of yours.

I'm not going to debate where he got his information from, that's debateable but he never seems to not know what is going on unless it's something dangerous and the plot NEEDS him not to know something.

Charismatic is that everyone seems to love him. He may doubt himself in front of the player, but all the NPCs mindlessly agree with whatever he is saying. They don't know who he is and yet YES SIR WE'LL JUMP INTO FIRE FOR YOU TREE MAN. Then your character goes all "I'll do anything for you, you're the best guy in the world, let me carry this bucket around for you so you don't need to use the restroom tree man!"

As for "it's just Caladbolg" why the heck would they give that to a character if not to make him seem that he could warp space-time deus ex machina? Obviously to make him seem "The chosen destined one that will lead you poor sheep to FREEDOM!" What is the point of making a character that powerful, even if it was explained away? Just because you give your Mary Sue a tactical missile launcher, while we're all with sticks, doesn't make him less a mary sue.

Edited by Supreme, 11 September 2012 - 05:40 AM.


#73 amidwx

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 05:41 PM

Trehearne is absolutely awful.  I've never been all that wild about the "sylvari as saviors and uniters against the dragons" motif, and Trehearne is the terribad icing on that crap story cake.   His arrival is the exact moment that the story goes out of your hands and into his suspiciously overcapable hands.  He knows everything he needs to know to save the world from Zhaitan, he shows up at just the right moment, and despite you being the one of the two that's actually fought against the dragon's forces and lived to tell the tale, it's him that everyone turns to.  

It's another Kormir moment, only worse - at least Kormir was at times your mentor and lead the charge against Kourna.  She comes in and out of your story throughout the entirety, and she's at least always a minor player behind the scenes.   Trehearne, if you're not a sylvari, comes out of nowhere and just takes everything over starting at level 50.

It's such lazy storytelling.

Edited by amidwx, 11 September 2012 - 05:42 PM.


#74 Di-Dorval

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 06:06 PM

Meh I just don't like him has a character. Shy kid become the leader when he obviously dosn't have any leadership. I mean even once he's the leader he stays this shy unsure kid that make me want to punch him in the mouth.

I also really dislike the pale tree avatar, which is just your standard sparkly sylvary... talk about lack of efforts there.

#75 Ethurian

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 06:23 PM

I don't mind his character, but the transition was way too bizarre in my opinion, too sudden.

For my blood legion charr it was..

Warband Member
Become Warband leader, recruits more members
Nice job! BTW, time to completely lose your warband and never see them again. CHYEAH. Because..
Vigil time!
I'm a BOSS, my names Forgal.
Forgal dies.
I'm Trahearne, you can call me Trey-Trey
Come and talk to Galadriel
Trahearne destined to be a Boss, doesn't want to be.
Becomes a Boss

--

As I said, I don't mind his character, but the transition from one stage to the next felt really rushed. I don't have issue with him being the Marshal, I just wish they had given you a reason to like the cat, sorry, twig, prior to him taking over the whole show.

I just felt such little connection to him. Not until much later down the road after a good number of missions together.

Edited by Ethurian, 11 September 2012 - 06:24 PM.


#76 draxynnic

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 02:15 AM

View PostSupreme, on 10 September 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:


Trahearne didn't need to be all-knowing. Explain it away all you like, but they easily could have just brought a priory member that knows about Lyssa's rituals or something of that sort.
Or, you know, a human priest and give humanity a chance to bring something to the alliance beyond warm bodies.
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#77 Prince Nightwing

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 12:06 PM

Trahearne is easily the worst character I've ever come across in GW1 and GW2. His voice acting is awful, he says stuff that makes you disregard the enemy you are fighting and punch him in the face, and he replaced freaking Tybalt who was easily the best character in GW2. Plus, that bastard took that Caldabolg sword I wanted soooo badly :(

#78 aop

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 03:04 PM

View PostPrince Nightwing, on 14 September 2012 - 12:06 PM, said:

Trahearne is easily the worst character I've ever come across in GW1 and GW2. His voice acting is awful, he says stuff that makes you disregard the enemy you are fighting and punch him in the face, and he replaced freaking Tybalt who was easily the best character in GW2. Plus, that bastard took that Caldabolg sword I wanted soooo badly :(
Agreed though I don't care about the sword.

Everyone in my Guild hated him too. The player character always has to do all the dirty work while he is busy doing something else and when you are cursed with his presence all he does is whining and bitching, blabbering about his ideals and philosophies and delivering stupid oneliners and in the end he gets all the credit.

He is simply horrible character, there are really no redeeming factors.

Only way ArenaNet can make this up for the players is to make Trahearne corrupted villain in the first expac, so we can pay him back for the trouble he has caused us.

edit: The character of Trahearne seemed so "perfect" (constantly pulling stuff out of his ass like it was magicians hat) that I was actually waiting for a plot twist where he was revealed to be in league with other dragons to weaken Zhaitan and thus actually evil. When he was attempting to cleanse Orr I was hoping he would get corrupted instead and the player character would have to end his suffering.

Edited by aop, 15 September 2012 - 03:40 PM.


#79 Electro Mouse

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 03:09 PM

"This is not going to end well"

or something like that? can't remember...

#80 Rada

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 03:10 PM

View PostElectro Mouse, on 15 September 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

"This is not going to end well"

or something like that? can't remember...
This won't end well... so annyoing. -.- Especially, when he cheers everyone up, and seconds later when the next fight starts, he pulls out that sentence again. Makes no sense!

Edit: I saw a video on youtube months ago, where the voice actor of Traherne was made fun of over and over again. I could not take him serious because of that since he was introduced. Anyone know what video I mean? I can't find it anymore.

Edited by Rada, 15 September 2012 - 03:20 PM.


#81 Wifflebottom

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 03:17 PM

He appears in non-Sylvari stories too? That's awful, I knew him throughout my personal story but other races just kind of get this person they've never met jammed into the story and named the chosen one, seems odd...

#82 DuskWolf

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 01:28 AM

View PostFoxBat, on 04 September 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

This is the same old crap we've had since Rurik and Kormir. Some dweebish mary sue steals the spotlight from what was supposed to be *our* personal story. Since his introduction the entire personal story revolves around HIM as the "chosen one," with your character becoming second fiddle praising his greatness. He is a horrible, unwelcome character and worse, an insulting trade for the much better Order mentors, particularly Tybalt.
This is, sadly, pretty much true.

I find that some characters received the lion's share of good writing (such as Tybalt), whereas others (such as Trahearne) were laughably bad. It was clumsy, that was the issue with it, really. The character development lacked pacing, and the lack of any 'feats of worth' really left him feeling like a Mary Sue. Like the loremasters just wanted their speshul sylvari to be in the spotlight.

It felt artificial and forced. That the sylvari storyline adds to it doesn't help. If it was meant to flow naturally, then it should for all races. In that case, they should have replaced the character with someone whom the player had become familiar with in their personal storyline. Someone fitting. I don't see why they couldn't have used Destiny's Edge or similar. At least that might have made some semblance of sense.

Furthermore, to have one person heading it rather than a council? Meh. This mono-uberleader nonsense gets to me when it's stuff as imporant as this. Again, the charr (who seem to steal the good writers) don't have a singular leader, and it makes the storytelling for the earlier levels of the charr storyline more interesting. Why should the Pact have a singular sylvari?

Maybe rushed is the word I'm looking for.

Yeah. Rushed.

It just didn't feel like it worked at all, and they had to crank out something because they were becoming more limited in the amount of time they had. So instead of doing something with Destiny's Edge, they just threw in this Trahearne guy, despite the obvious problems that would cause.

And after the good writing of the Order of Whispers and Tybalt, it's really just salt in the wound.

Whomever forced the Trahearne idea should be sacked. With a sack. Of bricks.

-Edit-

Frankly, if ArenaNet were responsible, they'd just scrap that storyline stuff and just do it over. Just... everything from 50 up. With Destiny's Edge.

Edited by DuskWolf, 16 September 2012 - 01:48 AM.


#83 Tevesh

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:17 AM

Contrived character? His character was flat and paper-made since the beginning. Convincing and realistic characters in modern fantasy? Yeah, gw2 story is the wrong place to look, you'd be better off reading something like Wheel of Time instead.

Also, while this statement

Quote

He is a horrible, unwelcome character and worse, an insulting trade for the much better Order mentors, particularly Tybalt.

Has some truth in it, the durmand priory mentor was terrible. Lighthead, unresponsible and naive. Her sacrifice felt like a hurt child's caprice, not an adult's conscious decision.
Well, maybe that is fitting for sylvari as a whole, but I expected more from a mentor. A durmand priory mentor. Some wisdom maybe? Nah, who needs that. Lets instead do some nonsense and get into trouble with no forseeable profit.

#84 Lutinz

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:39 AM

Is it just me or am I the only one who has liked the story and Trahearne's part in it?  I also dont see how it has become Trahearne's story either.  This whole time its been my character that has been making it happen and make it work.  Its my character who guided Trahearne into taking up his destiny and filling his role, my character that gave him the confidence to step in to the role, my character that convinced everyone to unite under him, and my character that made his and the Pacts plan work.

The reason that Trahearne needs you as his second in command is because he needs you cause your what is making the whole thing work.

We have a character that has since awakening been struggling on how to meet his wyld hunt.  He makes an interest comment that he is jealous of Caithe cause although she is tasked with killing a dragon, atleast her target is tangable.  He simply had no idea how to start.  He had the knowledge and the smarts but its the player character that pushes him into action.

As for overpowered Im not sold on that yet though admitedly there is still more to the personal story to go (im in my 70s).  The most Ive seen is him summon 6 flesh golems.  Considering a NPC summoned 3 at once during a Dynamic event in Kessex Hills It didnt seem that overpowered.  Hell Anise summons a small army of Phantasms during a personal story mission for humans.

Trahearne comes up with the plan.  The player makes it happen.  Hell, if I remember right the Pact itself was the Player Character's idea.

#85 Lutinz

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:46 AM

View PostDuskWolf, on 16 September 2012 - 01:28 AM, said:

Furthermore, to have one person heading it rather than a council? Meh. This mono-uberleader nonsense gets to me when it's stuff as imporant as this. Again, the charr (who seem to steal the good writers) don't have a singular leader, and it makes the storytelling for the earlier levels of the charr storyline more interesting. Why should the Pact have a singular sylvari.

Ive seen this comment before and the answer is pretty simple.  You dont have a military campaign run by a council.  Council's slow down decision making and in war thats a critical error.  More over the Charr do have singular leaders, the Imperitors.  Frankly if Smolder could order every non iron legion charr out of Ascalon and the other two Imperitors could do nothing to overide his command short of war.  Ascalon is Iron Legion territory.  The Charr have very clear lines of command and juristictions.  Ash and Blood legion troops in Iron legion land are basicly 'borrowed'.

Try and come up with a list of military forces in the real world and in fantasy that are actually commanded by council rather than a single selected leader.

Edited by Lutinz, 16 September 2012 - 09:48 AM.


#86 draxynnic

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:18 PM

That's pretty much what I was going to say - the charr would be the first to say you need a supreme commander.

It was asked in interview well before release, and the truth is that the charr don't have any sense of a formal governing council between the three Imperators. Instead, the alliance between the legions is built on a mix of jurisdiction and you-scratch-my-back-I'll-scratch-yours - the legions loan troops to one another, but the local imperator is the overall commander-in-chief of charr operations in the area. As an example, the human-charr treaty was entirely Smodur's decision - Ascalon is Iron Legion territory and thus the prosecution (or resolution) of the conflict with Ebonhawke was entirely his call. Malice and Bangar can express their opinion, and as it turns out in GoA Malice was in fact doing her best to make the treaty happen while Smodur was still undecided, but formally Ascalon as Smodur's jurisdiction and they have no say as to what goes on.

Or to put it another way, the three legions are effectively independent but allied nations that have agreements to exchange military personnel. Similar agreements are in place between some nations in the real world, albeit on a much smaller scale than we see with the charr.

Arranging the Pact under the charr model, then, wouldn't result in a governing council. Instead, you'd have leaders for each theatre of operations - you could have Trahearne leading the Pact in Orr, Rytlock leading in the east against Kralkatorrik, Eir in the north against Jormag, and so on.

Edited by draxynnic, 16 September 2012 - 02:20 PM.

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#87 aop

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 04:38 PM

View Postdraxynnic, on 16 September 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

Arranging the Pact under the charr model, then, wouldn't result in a governing council. Instead, you'd have leaders for each theatre of operations - you could have Trahearne leading the Pact in Orr, Rytlock leading in the east against Kralkatorrik, Eir in the north against Jormag, and so on.
That would make much more sense than the current story of Trahearne nominating himself as Marshall of all Pact forces.

#88 ensoriki

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 06:36 PM

Felt weird since I knew a bit of him from my Sylvario personal story before going full in with my Human.

He's supposed to rejuvenate Orr and we're told by Caithe his Wyld Hunt is difficult because unlike her's he's not tasked with fighting Zhaiten

...Then the pale tree tasks him with fighting Zhaiten.

I think it could of flowed better for sure, but it's still tolerable.

Edited by ensoriki, 16 September 2012 - 06:37 PM.


#89 draxynnic

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 11:09 PM

View Postaop, on 16 September 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

That would make much more sense than the current story of Trahearne nominating himself as Marshall of all Pact forces.
To be fair, at the time the Pact was pointing itself squarely at Zhaitan. Once they start aiming at another dragon, things might shift - Trahearne could well prefer to remain in Orr to concentrate on his Wyld Hunt of rejuvenating the location rather than haring off to fight another dragon.
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#90 Dark Saviour

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:14 AM

Honestly, I think the biggest issue I had with Trahearne was just how... badly... he was written and acted.

A lot of the time he seems far too disingenuously, for lack of a better word... upbeat.
Granted, poor acting such as this is something that put me off of the personal story in general, but Trahearne seemed to be a major offender.
Particularly when
Spoiler

He seems almost completely disconnected at times...

That's why I can't stand...
The leader of the Pact. Vroom, vroom, vroom

<_<

Edited by Dark Saviour, 20 September 2012 - 03:16 AM.





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