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Should I drop my guardian if I want to WvW?


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#1 dirkaderpa

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 12:45 AM

Hey, I've been leveling my guardian, and I'm pretty low leveled since I've been taking my time, and plan to WvW alot, but I've been wondering if I'll end up frustrated with being mostly useless in WvW, forcing me to roll a Warrior just for WvW and him sucking b/c he's lvl 1 when every one else has 1337 armor and weapons.

Should I just not waste time and make another more useful WvW character and focus on him, since leveling takes so long?

Edited by dirkaderpa, 06 September 2012 - 12:45 AM.


#2 Drekor

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 02:33 AM

How do you figure you would be mostly useless?

#3 flint11

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 02:40 AM

Gear isn't even the remotely most important thing in deciding the outcome of a WvW battle..Also the only cons Guardians have is the lack of a real range weapon to use during keep/wall defense. Otherwise they're great with Staff providing perma swiftness to their party. Hammer, Sword and Board are also great for protecting others and keeping siege weapons safe or kicking people off them. Wall of Reflection alongside Mesmer's Feedback are some of the best skills one can bring in a WvW setting.

You'd probably be bored while running back and forth on the wall, not going to lie. But for securing supply lines and assaulting supply camps, you're more than useful.

#4 Salohcin

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 03:43 AM

If you are not playing support, then mobility and short duration damage avoidance are your primary advantages.

Its very easy to get two teleports and a leap into a guardian build (flashing blade, judges intervention and leap of faith). At the same time between wall of reflection, our virtues, renewed focus,shelter and our heavy armour we can take a large amount of pressure for a short period of time.

We don't have the raw damage output of a warrior, or the raw resilience of a necromancer, but we are more mobile and, in the short term (about 5 to 7 seconds) tougher than either.

I stack/trait for toughness and precision/crit. With a full rack of exotic gear, my traits and the right weapon upgrade I sit at around a 75% crit chance with my sword and torch. I'm critting most of my attacks, which means most of my basic attacks exceeds 1k damage. My Zealots defence and Cleansing flame each hit for 3.5k to 4k damage if I land them fully on target.

People drop fast and its often easer to just burn them down with normal attacks, then it is to stomp them (depends on target type - some are a pain to stomp).

After this you need to gtfo. Use your virtues/shelter/wall of reflection and a fair bit of healthy dodging to escape. Don't be afraid to teleport-bounce of enemy pushers to help you get back to your own lines. Flashing blade is on a very short cool down and bouncing of an enemy/mob/rabbit has often saved my life.

#5 Sycosis

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 11:43 AM

Also remember wvw is not all about taking keeps, you have the. Different mob camps, supply camps, and guardian is on of the best foot soldiers. My guardian with a full offensive build tears through most classes with ease and I still off tons of support via staff empower and utility skills. 12 stacks of might does wonders to allies Dmg, plus aoe aegis x2 from retreat and virtue, wall of reflection is a big help when on the ground.

During keep assaults the guardian doesn't have much Dmg to offer to foes on walls, but being supportive till the gate comes down makes you MVP.

#6 zepfya

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 07:50 PM

I have no idea what people are talking about in terms of guardians being remotely useful in WVW, they have terrible range and the ranged weapons do crappy dmg if they ever hit anything. Not only that but if you run into a group of enemies you will die so quickly, your best attacks are on a timer which are not even that great to begin with when using a sword. I don't see the appeal of the class, feel like I wasted time leveling it to level 43, maybe things change at level 80.

#7 Dustbin

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:20 PM

View Postzepfya, on 07 September 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

I have no idea what people are talking about in terms of guardians being remotely useful in WVW, they have terrible range and the ranged weapons do crappy dmg if they ever hit anything. Not only that but if you run into a group of enemies you will die so quickly, your best attacks are on a timer which are not even that great to begin with when using a sword. I don't see the appeal of the class, feel like I wasted time leveling it to level 43, maybe things change at level 80.

If you think that you need to spam up/down walls to be useful in WvW you should either stop mindlessly zerging or go roll an Elementalist or Ranger and do just that.

Edited by Dustbin, 07 September 2012 - 10:23 PM.


#8 zepfya

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:22 PM

No but that is the whole fun in WVW, same as in daoc.

#9 Xaragoth

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:25 PM

If you just spam down/up walls, you are doing it wrong. A lot.

#10 nukularpower

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:38 AM

For gods sake, I don't get all this Guardian crying over range.  You can't do EVERYTHING.  And Smite has just as much range as any elementalist attack, a short cd, and plenty of damage, especially in the chaos that is WvW.  

Don't hold your breath for Guardians to get Longbows.  "Terrible range"?  How about looking at the range numbers -

Meteor Shower:
Range: 1200
Damage: 481

Smite:
Range: 1200 (HURR TERRIBLE RANGE)
Damage: 1,665  (QQITSTERRIBLE)

Like someone else said a few posts up, if range is what you want, make a flipping Ranger.  What part of the Guardian description made you think it wasnt going to be a Paladin-like holy tank/support, exactly?

Edited by nukularpower, 08 September 2012 - 01:45 AM.


#11 Drekor

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 02:34 AM

View Postnukularpower, on 08 September 2012 - 01:38 AM, said:

For gods sake, I don't get all this Guardian crying over range.  You can't do EVERYTHING.  And Smite has just as much range as any elementalist attack, a short cd, and plenty of damage, especially in the chaos that is WvW.  

Don't hold your breath for Guardians to get Longbows.  "Terrible range"?  How about looking at the range numbers -

Meteor Shower:
Range: 1200
Damage: 481

Smite:
Range: 1200 (HURR TERRIBLE RANGE)
Damage: 1,665  (QQITSTERRIBLE)

Like someone else said a few posts up, if range is what you want, make a flipping Ranger.  What part of the Guardian description made you think it wasnt going to be a Paladin-like holy tank/support, exactly?

Well... to nit pick a bit elementalist meteor storm does that damage... x30.

If you want to WvW then you want to use staff. You have SoS which when traited is a large pulsing AoE at 1200 range, perfect for hitting up on walls. You have orb to throw 1200 range every 3s(don't detonate it). You have wall of reflection and sanctuary which are godlike. We have tome of wrath which has an incredibly powerful AoE auto attack that burns out to 1200 range.

We have plenty to make us useful at 1200 range... if only people stop trying to use the broken scepter.

#12 Franjean

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 02:52 AM

View Postnukularpower, on 08 September 2012 - 01:38 AM, said:

For gods sake, I don't get all this Guardian crying over range.  You can't do EVERYTHING.  And Smite has just as much range as any elementalist attack, a short cd, and plenty of damage, especially in the chaos that is WvW.  

Don't hold your breath for Guardians to get Longbows.  "Terrible range"?  How about looking at the range numbers -

Meteor Shower:
Range: 1200
Damage: 481

Smite:
Range: 1200 (HURR TERRIBLE RANGE)
Damage: 1,665  (QQITSTERRIBLE)

Like someone else said a few posts up, if range is what you want, make a flipping Ranger.  What part of the Guardian description made you think it wasnt going to be a Paladin-like holy tank/support, exactly?

Quote

Guardians are devoted fighters who protect their allies and smite their enemies by drawing from the power of their virtues. True guardians are brilliant tacticians and selfless defenders who know when to sacrifice their own defenses to empower their allies to achieve victory.
https://www.guildwar...sions/guardian/

Comparing Guardian to Elemental ranged abilities is absurd though. Elementals have a whole bag full of ranged abilities at 1200 while Guardians have a few small radius abilities. That said, I don't think Guardians should be a ranged class by any means but having the option would be nice.

#13 Alaroxr

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 05:15 AM

View Postnukularpower, on 08 September 2012 - 01:38 AM, said:

Meteor Shower:
Range: 1200
Damage: 481

Smite:
Range: 1200 (HURR TERRIBLE RANGE)
Damage: 1,665  (QQITSTERRIBLE)


Resolve your own ignorance before you claim that of others.

Smite does not pulse, and it does not hit powerfully. For about 4s it essentially 'taps' enemies, 1-2 at a time. It also misses quite frequently. An enemy could be at the center of the AoE and yet almost every hit could miss. That "QQITSTERRIBLE" damage is essentially trivialized. The auto-attack deals more damage in the same time frame than Smite (speaking of the auto-attack, it has a reliable range of barely 600, let alone 1200).

Also, an Elementalist can spam a number of 1200 range AoE circles. Guardians have a low damage low reliability one on the Scepter, and one 15s low damage one on the Staff.

Edited by Alaroxr, 09 September 2012 - 05:22 AM.


#14 Ponzio

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 05:24 AM

View Postflint11, on 06 September 2012 - 02:40 AM, said:

Gear isn't even the remotely most important thing in deciding the outcome of a WvW battle.

A lvl 80 elementalist in full exotic can drop any player under, I guess, level 50 in one meteor shower.

Edited by Ponzio, 09 September 2012 - 05:25 AM.


#15 nukularpower

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 05:56 AM

View PostAlaroxr, on 09 September 2012 - 05:15 AM, said:

Resolve your own ignorance before you claim that of others.

Smite does not pulse, and it does not hit powerfully. For about 4s it essentially 'taps' enemies, 1-2 at a time. It also misses quite frequently. An enemy could be at the center of the AoE and yet almost every hit could miss. That "QQITSTERRIBLE" damage is essentially trivialized. The auto-attack deals more damage in the same time frame than Smite (speaking of the auto-attack, it has a reliable range of barely 600, let alone 1200).

Also, an Elementalist can spam a number of 1200 range AoE circles. Guardians have a low damage low reliability one on the Scepter, and one 15s low damage one on the Staff.

It's pretty clear to me that a Guardian is not an Elementalist.  Was it not clear to you?

And lol @ trying to exaggerate Elemenatist damage.. they hit for practically nothing atm outside of d/d

I don't know what Smite you're using, but mine does plenty of damage

#16 Morthis

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 06:15 AM

View Postnukularpower, on 09 September 2012 - 05:56 AM, said:

It's pretty clear to me that a Guardian is not an Elementalist.  Was it not clear to you?

And lol @ trying to exaggerate Elemenatist damage.. they hit for practically nothing atm outside of d/d

I don't know what Smite you're using, but mine does plenty of damage

It depends, are we comparing the up/down wall AoE's or single target?  If you actually claim guardian can outperform elementalist at the up/down wall AoE thing, you're beyond clueless about the damage an elementalist can put out.  I'd take a single meteor shower over 5 guardians spamming smite, and elementalists have a lot more spammable aoe's besides meteor shower (shower just happens to be the strongest, and absolutely devastating to siege).

Single target, on the other hand?  Yeah staff is pretty weak there, it's not the greatest weapon for those things.

#17 wandering vagabond

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 07:24 AM

I may not be an expert on the guardian or WvW yet...but a warrior kiting me with a bow just killed me in literally 3 arrows. Each of them took a chunk of my head off for about 6k damage each.

I chose this class to be defensive and tactical. I'm quickly realizing we have the survivability of a bag of wet toilet paper. At higher levels, every other class goes leaps and bounds ahead of us in damage output, meanwhile ours stays crappy and our defense remains mediocre. Oh a few aegis blocks here and there...so what? Everyone else can heal, everyone else can stack HP and toughness.

What the hell *IS* the role of this class at the end of the day? We're only half as good as a warrior in any given role. Warriors can defend and heal just as much as we can.

Over the last few days I went from enjoying this class and learning all I could about it to the harsh reality that this class serves absolutely zero purpose. A warrior can literally do anything better in any given situation. And I love supporting my team, it's why I rolled this class, but we barely have any support abilities that make a difference in REAL combat. Oh, empower...oh, tiny little orb that heals for next to nothing...oh, 180 second CD with a nice big heal that you will 90% of the time get killed before you even get the spell off. And don't get me started on that dumb swiftness that nobody bothers to use. Pub players don't even know what your symbol does and avoid it 99% of the time, on the offchance some people in sPvP use it, the swiftness is freaking pointless anyway while they're engaged in close combat!

It should raise A LOT of red flags when you see all the high level competitive guardian PvP videos doing nothing but offense. They're just trying to act like the warrior's little brother and completely ignoring what was SUPPOSED to be the intended role of this class.

If all we have to look forward to is doing minor buffing that NOBODY NOTICES and that barely effects the tide of a battle, then this class is in dire need of an overhaul. Either that or play half-assed warrior in which case you should have rolled warrior to begin with.

Ugh, I had hoped dearly Anet would do this class some justice, but it's just the crummy War Priest from Warhammer Online all over again. Never good at doing damage, barely good at buffing and healing, people question why you're on the battlefield at all.

I understand Anet wanted to break the holy trinity, but in doing they've left one huge question mark on the guardian class. WHAT do we even do that other classes can't already do better in some form? Again, EVERYONE can buff, EVERYONE can heal, EVERYONE can dps...except the guardian! The guardian has the worst dps in the game! What's the point of spending 5+ minutes long in a 1v1 duel when I could have played a thief or elementalist that could have finished the fight in about 40 seconds or less...and they can still be defensive and healing on top of it!

Useless shouts, useless meditations, useless consecrations. Useless class, survivability of toilet paper.

We're stuck with the same old problem WoW had. In WoW, Warrior, Rogue and the spellcasters were all overpowered and all other classes were left in the dust for YEARS. Same thing is happening right now. Warrior is a juggernaut on the battlefield with almost no flaws, thieves can drop nearly any class in about 2.5 seconds spamming heartseeker. Sigh. Why did I bother with this class?

#18 Draxas

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 10:07 AM

View Postwandering vagabond, on 09 September 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:

Hyperbole

Seriously?  Just...wow.  Way to exaggerate everything in every possible way about other classes while obviously failing at yours.  Guardian is a great class but clearly you are doing something wrong.  Nothing should be killing you in 3 hits, maybe you got hit by a ballista or something you couldn't see.  The only thing warrior bow has that does close to that is explosive shot, which is on a cooldown.

#19 Alphatier

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 11:43 AM

Some people here are going into WvWvW as a lvl 10 guardian expecting to rock 'n' roll everything, which is obviously not going to happen.

Here's why the guardian is an exceptional profession for WvWvW:

- You have got the 2 best Aoe Support and Damage elite skills existing in the game with Tome of Wrath and Tome of Courage
- You can jump/teleport into a pack of enemies, disrupt them while being unkillable for a good few seconds, after which the enemy will be erased from this map if your team mates are any good
- You are a mean lean buffing machine. 12 stacks of might is NOTHING to scoff at, it is fantastic. AoE aegis,
another AoE heal and lending burn to all your allies is super super strong. Swiftness not being good in close combat fights? Think again!
- Whenever you need to rez anyone, you just do it using sanctuary. There is no way of stopping you if you do not want to get stopped
- facing loads and loads of conditions? Take all of them like the King of Thoria and convert them to buffs. Your allies will thank you

The guardian is not a profession that will kill loads of enemies by its own, but in a group, everyone wants to be best friends with you! That is btw the exact position the guardian is in in sPvP. If you do not like to make your team win but instead want to see big numbers, roll elementalist. If you want to play an elemental role in your team and be a real game changer, keep to guardian.

Edited by Alphatier, 09 September 2012 - 11:50 AM.


#20 dirkaderpa

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 08:22 PM

View PostAlphatier, on 09 September 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

Some people here are going into WvWvW as a lvl 10 guardian expecting to rock 'n' roll everything, which is obviously not going to happen.

Here's why the guardian is an exceptional profession for WvWvW:

- You have got the 2 best Aoe Support and Damage elite skills existing in the game with Tome of Wrath and Tome of Courage
- You can jump/teleport into a pack of enemies, disrupt them while being unkillable for a good few seconds, after which the enemy will be erased from this map if your team mates are any good
- You are a mean lean buffing machine. 12 stacks of might is NOTHING to scoff at, it is fantastic. AoE aegis,
another AoE heal and lending burn to all your allies is super super strong. Swiftness not being good in close combat fights? Think again!
- Whenever you need to rez anyone, you just do it using sanctuary. There is no way of stopping you if you do not want to get stopped
- facing loads and loads of conditions? Take all of them like the King of Thoria and convert them to buffs. Your allies will thank you

The guardian is not a profession that will kill loads of enemies by its own, but in a group, everyone wants to be best friends with you! That is btw the exact position the guardian is in in sPvP. If you do not like to make your team win but instead want to see big numbers, roll elementalist. If you want to play an elemental role in your team and be a real game changer, keep to guardian.
You can only do damage with your elite and wall of reflections, that in itself means you won't be getting very many drops if you're focusing on support. Or xp.

And you think your elite is so awesome, try rolling engi and pick up the grenade pack. Its up all the time and doesn't have an insane cooldown.

#21 Alphatier

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 10:37 PM

View Postdirkaderpa, on 09 September 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

You can only do damage with your elite and wall of reflections, that in itself means you won't be getting very many drops if you're focusing on support. Or xp.

And you think your elite is so awesome, try rolling engi and pick up the grenade pack. Its up all the time and doesn't have an insane cooldown.

I prefer winning a group fight above xp or kills tbh. Tome of Wrath isn't for doing damage yourself first, it's for support. As you are a support profession.

If you do not want to support, dont play a guardian.

#22 Drekor

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 11:16 PM

View Postdirkaderpa, on 09 September 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

You can only do damage with your elite and wall of reflections, that in itself means you won't be getting very many drops if you're focusing on support. Or xp.

And you think your elite is so awesome, try rolling engi and pick up the grenade pack. Its up all the time and doesn't have an insane cooldown.
If you think we can't do damage without the elite you're delusional. Staff is a perfectly viable weapon at 1200 range. With WoR/Sanc you can easily operate within 600 range safely and in fact you'll likely shove their entire zerg back by doing so.

#23 LeFire

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 03:56 AM

TLDR version: I think Guardians are better for folks who prefer operating outside the zergforce, but Warriors are better for folks who prefer to learn from within the zergforce. I think OP should put that Guardian aside for a while (don't delete him), and go roll a Warrior. Enjoy WvW, watch and learn WvW combat experience. See where Guardians can come in useful, by observing experienced Guardians in combat. Come back to Guardian in future when more familar with roles outside the zergforce (or when Anet employees finally get enough time to give Guardian ranged viability some attention).

I speak from a situation similar to that of the OP, i.e. relatively new to the WvW battlefield, with both Guardian (lvl 53) and Warrior (lvl 34) alts. I have found a few general rules of thumb in WvW that have impact on the Guardian's ranged ability:

1.) Nobody stands still in combat.
The only time your slow sceptre projectiles (or the "cast on this nonmoving target" 1200 range abilities on the staff) will hit, is against a target that is either downed, channeling, focus/snared or just plain overconfident. And even then, only the first hit will count, before the player's reflexes automatically kick in and he dodgerolls out of the way. Pretty much everyone soon gets the idea that standing still = death. Sure, you might kill a few folks who have been focused and snared... but most of your fire won't hit during most combat scenarios, while a warrior's rifle bullets consistently do.

As a newer player, you want to feel good (get earn kills) by contributing with something long-ranged, reliable and consistent. I feel that way myself. Sure, a fancy "thou shalt not pass" wall from a staff is a good thing, but you got to be (and feel) rewarded to stay long enough in WvW until you can learn where and when to best place that wall! Also, placing walls don't give you rewards... experienced WvW players may not need them as badly and can afford to be generous in their gameplay, but we new WvW recruits need those rewards, which unfortunately, can only be gained by killing.

2.) Open-field combat is about battlelines feinting at 1200 range
When two forces meet, both sides (unless fielded by professional / veteran guilds) are usually shy to commit, dancing in and out of 1200 range. The few heroes who try to get into melee will typically be focused and shot down in seconds, setting a macabre example to everyone else to stay in their "battlelines" or die. This is a reason why strong players, I think, prefer not to be part of the zerg and rather do camp attacks / flanks /specops work in small teams. Massed 1200 range fire from a zerg always beats individual skill... Strong, experienced players have a better chance at excelling if they don't get focused, while inexperienced players get a chance to watch and learn while safe under the security umbrella of focused, massed fire on tap (like noble knights against peasant musketmen).

As an inexperienced player, I have found myself staying alive and learning more about WvW as a rifle-toting "peasant", than a melee-strong "knight". Both have their roles, but I recognise that I haven't seen enough combat yet to strike out on my own as a "knight"... And the Warrior's rifle fits the peasant's role perfectly.

3.) Camp attackers / defenders / "SpecOps" duty are usually people you don't want to meet
Think about it... For someone to break free of the security of the mainfor / zerg, and set his/her own objectives flanking the enemy force to hit the supply lines, indicates someone confident in his/her skills. They need to have that strong skillset and confidence to survive 1vs1 fights, the experience to pick and choose fights they know they will win, the cunning to evade those they won't, the foresight to predict enemy zerg force movements, and even the simplest things... like navigation skills to go from A to B without falling off a cliff, or just getting lost (embarrassingly, both have happened to me when I tried doing specops stuff). All these, I refer to as "feel" for the particular game. "Feel" is already second nature for veterans, but not for inexperienced folks like me.

"Feel" eventually comes, even when following the zergforce. But "feel" (at least for me) is a lot harder to learn when dead. Guess who you will run into if you strike out as a Guardian in a specops role, while still getting the "feel". Yep (not counting the occasional lost rookie on the other team)... you'll meet the best, most experienced 1vs1 killers from the other server. Ouch. Cue rapid dirtnap.

Some here say that the Guardian ought to avoid the zerg battleline, and go for specops duty where he has the chance to close to melee before being focused and shot down. But I think that advice is only good for people with sufficient combat experience in WvW and "feel", like many of the other commenters here. A player relatively new to WvW is a lot safer picking up the "feel" by fighting in the zerg first, as a rifle-armed Warrior.

So yeah, that is what I have done too. Just a little rifle-armed peasant Warrior in the ranks of the zergforce, learning the ropes in WvW while my higher-level Guardian takes a vacation (to craft gear upgrades for the Warrior). Nothing flashy, nothing battle-changing, but consistent, safe and steady.

#24 dirkaderpa

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 04:49 AM

View PostAlphatier, on 09 September 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

I prefer winning a group fight above xp or kills tbh. Tome of Wrath isn't for doing damage yourself first, it's for support. As you are a support profession.

If you do not want to support, dont play a guardian.
engi grenade pack has utility as well.

EDIT: and thx for the above post, I can't like it for some reason. I guess what you are saying makes sense, for instance, if you are learning the game in a MOBA, you pick very high survivability champions b/c otherwise you won't be alive long enough to learn the game.

But I mean, other classes have utility as well, guardian doesn't have a monopoly on it, I think the guardian just isn't worth taking since all our weapon skills are practically useless, wheras if an elementalist was going support, he would be bringing a lot more to the team since he would have a LOT more useful moves that are always off cooldown.

Edited by dirkaderpa, 10 September 2012 - 04:52 AM.


#25 incomingray

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 06:37 AM

I'm finding my Guardian completely amazing in WvW but I can see why it wouldn't appeal for alot of players, I just hit 80 this weekend and am a bit mind blown, did a very hybrid spec with targetted consecrations for the bubble on demand with reduction in cooldown/extension in duration.   Rolling with a small group we gather and I buff huge might with staff, teleport in with the burn switch to Greatsword, AOE pull, nuke away, blind, burn, switch to staff and trap with the wall, speed buff, condition remove, buff more might.. etc. on and on.. it's great..

Team in trouble?   Put down wall, put down bubble, tome of courage, heal everyone to full, daze everyone, spam heals..

To me Guardian with an organized group can turn so many fights around and control pushes/retreats amazingly all while doing great dps.. so many ways I can see to play it.

One thing I just did that I recommend is gem to give 50% endurance on switch to staff(awesome dodging 3 times away from your aoe strikes) and one with an aoe effect(trying chilled) on switch to Greatsword/whatever 2h.

Here's a video I made of Guardian WvW play last weekend at lev 40-50, i've learned alot this weekend and am 80 now so not playing exactly like this anymore(less dps now, more utility, tome of courage) but gives you an idea of the style i'm describing that I find works really well in wvw, getting alot of kills with my group.. recommend trying staff/2h with some people working with you.



Edited by incomingray, 10 September 2012 - 06:40 AM.


#26 wandering vagabond

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 10:55 AM

View PostDraxas, on 09 September 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

Seriously?  Just...wow.  Way to exaggerate everything in every possible way about other classes while obviously failing at yours.  Guardian is a great class but clearly you are doing something wrong.  Nothing should be killing you in 3 hits, maybe you got hit by a ballista or something you couldn't see.  The only thing warrior bow has that does close to that is explosive shot, which is on a cooldown.

I will ignore your petty and childish insults. No, i did not get hit by siege weapons. This was 1v1 in open field combat, there was not another person around. This Asuran warrior plinked me with arrows hitting me for 5-6k each time. I actually died mid-flight doing a leap of faith in an attempt to engage him.

It is people like you who keep classes from being properly balanced. You probably roll with a mindless zerg 24/7 in WvW or you do sPvP where other classes mask your flaws and then you assume the guardian is just fine. I dare you to try dueling with this class, that is what will show you the real balances. I know the game is not balanced around 1v1, but it is the best scenario to compare damage output and survivability.

Kid, I have been playing MMOs since you were in 1st grade. I was an old school UO vet starting in 1998, I have played everything from EQ to DAOC to WoW to WAR. The paladin archetype class is ALWAYS weak in any game which is class based. The devs never have any friggin clue what to do with this archetype, so it always ends up being mediocre in every aspect.

Go and duel, find a straggler 1v1 in WvW and hope he is competent. Or better yet make a friend in another realm and meet up with him 1v1 when he is in your WvW group. You may beat him once in a while and it will require blowing EVERY single ability you have. When you equate that to real combat, it means you are useless. When you need to blow every ability at your disposable to handle one person, it means you will struggle immensely in sPvP and WvW.

Look at the game itself. Guardian is the least played class at higher levels. Just walk around any capital cities, any zones, look around in WvW...you will not see many Guardians at all. You will see a BOATLOAD of warriors and thieves and a mish-mash of necros, eles and mesmers. Engineers seem to currently suffer from underpopulation as well, but I do not play one so I can not comment.

I know my way around these games. GW2 has very simplistic PvP compared to many games I've played in the past. You are the type of person who likes to be intentionally be contrarian in any given situation because it strokes your ego, I understand that, you're obviously between the ages of 18 and 25, so you're a young arrogant kiddo who doesn't know his butt from his nose. You can delude yourself all you want or you can take the advice of someone much wiser than you: Guardian is a broken class right now and is useless in most PvP situations.

It does not matter if we stack toughness or HP or go pure offense. It does not matter if we use 2H weapons or sword/torch or anything, we lack PvP offense, PvP defense and PvP utility. For the minor ability we have to mitigate damage slightly better than some classes, it means nothing, because we can be kited and toyed with so easily like a cat playing with a mouse. Use your leap or faith or blink, you will just get knocked back and kited again, use your binding blades to drag him back to you, the CC lasts about half a second and he will continue to kite you while laughing all the way to the bank.

This class is shelved for a long time for me. I will be rolling a Warrior or Elementalist and I will giggle every time I obliterate a poor sap who still thinks Guardian is a worthwhile class. Class is broken, you can delude yourself like the immature child that you are or you can wise up to reality and understand Guardian is the single weakest class in the game. The choice is yours.

#27 sabon3000

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:58 PM

View Postzepfya, on 07 September 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

I have no idea what people are talking about in terms of guardians being remotely useful in WVW, they have terrible range and the ranged weapons do crappy dmg if they ever hit anything. Not only that but if you run into a group of enemies you will die so quickly, your best attacks are on a timer which are not even that great to begin with when using a sword. I don't see the appeal of the class, feel like I wasted time leveling it to level 43, maybe things change at level 80.

Lets see... taking supply camps, leading the charge on siege weaponry, backing up your team with your many support abilities, protecting people while they repair doors, well pretty much doing every other than being the best at ranged damage.  

Its funny... you go to any other class forum other than mesmer and people are asking "How to kill a guardian?"  There are warriors posting about how guardians are better and warriors provide a lot less, elementalists stating that they reroll to guardian and see major increases in pretty much everything.   Or you will at the least find someone mention having trouble fighting them.  You come here, and some people who apparently have some L2P issues.  That, and they obviously have some terrible disorganized wvw teams if they can't find the benefits of a guardian.  But hey, from what I can tell, most people just want something they can zerg with.

#28 Alphatier

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 02:18 PM

View Postwandering vagabond, on 10 September 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

I will ignore your petty and childish insults. No, i did not get hit by siege weapons. This was 1v1 in open field combat, there was not another person around. This Asuran warrior plinked me with arrows hitting me for 5-6k each time. I actually died mid-flight doing a leap of faith in an attempt to engage him.


Stop going at lvl 80 warriors as a lvl 10 guardian, please.
Tanky guardians are one of the, if not THE best, dueling class.

#29 dirkaderpa

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 04:33 PM

View Postwandering vagabond, on 10 September 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

I will ignore your petty and childish insults. No, i did not get hit by siege weapons. This was 1v1 in open field combat, there was not another person around. This Asuran warrior plinked me with arrows hitting me for 5-6k each time. I actually died mid-flight doing a leap of faith in an attempt to engage him.

K guardian isn't bad in sPvP. Might be slightly UP after the mega nerf they recieved, but they aren't bad. They are the most potentially tanky class and bring good damage, and have gap closers on most of their melee weapons along with a utility blink. I agree they need work in WvW though.

At first i thought it made sense, these are really tanky guys they don't deserve a long range option. Then I remembered the Warrior...

View PostAlphatier, on 10 September 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

Stop going at lvl 80 warriors as a lvl 10 guardian, please.
Tanky guardians are one of the, if not THE best, dueling class.
No guardians aren't the best dueling class since a lot of their skills are based around group support, but they can do it passably, or at least hold up their warriors until reinforcements arrive. They are good at their job of being this guy that is all on top of you doing damage, and you don't really want to attack him b/c he's so tanky. Like mundo or Singed in LoL. Except with more damage.

Edited by dirkaderpa, 10 September 2012 - 04:34 PM.


#30 _Belisarius_

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:00 PM

I think it's safe to say that if you want to be doing damage at range, you should roll a different class.  But the Guard is far from useless in wvw.

I won't reiterate what others have already said about Wall of Reflection and Sanctuary, because those along with Line of Warding can turn the tide of a battle in your favor if used at the proper times.  Yes, like others have said, you won't get as many drops.  But what you will get is your teammates in vent saying,  "That Wall of Reflection was awesome" or "Way to split their entire team in half with Line of Warding" or "Your sanctuary saved my ass".  I don't hear anyone saying "Man, awesome timing on your Hundred Blades!"

Going full support in wvw, I never have a shortage of things to do and am having a blast.  Even if you're not getting as many drops, I think you would be hard pressed to find a class that is more valuable to a coordinated group.




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