120 replies to this topic

[Ob1ivion]

_Belisarius_, on 10 September 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

I think it's safe to say that if you want to be doing damage at range, you should roll a different class.  But the Guard is far from useless in wvw.

I won't reiterate what others have already said about Wall of Reflection and Sanctuary, because those along with Line of Warding can turn the tide of a battle in your favor if used at the proper times.  Yes, like others have said, you won't get as many drops.  But what you will get is your teammates in vent saying,  "That Wall of Reflection was awesome" or "Way to split their entire team in half with Line of Warding" or "Your sanctuary saved my ass".  I don't hear anyone saying "Man, awesome timing on your Hundred Blades!"

Going full support in wvw, I never have a shortage of things to do and am having a blast.  Even if you're not getting as many drops, I think you would be hard pressed to find a class that is more valuable to a coordinated group.

While I do agree with this line of thinking and find joy in WvW myself playing support guardian, there is something I think we should consider.  Everyone we help boasts over their number of badges and I'm left with a third of what they're getting.  So yes, we do help turn the tides of battles, but we do not get the credit for it.  We're stuck building badges at a much slower pace than other classes because of this.  I'm not entirely sure on the significance or importance of badges in scope of WvW gear vs PvE gear, but if the gear is something that is desirable, then we are at a severe disadvantage in obtaining it in my opinion.

Edited by Ob1ivion, 10 September 2012 - 08:56 PM.

[LuminousArk]

I think the scepter needs a buff on the normal attack, otherwise it's a pretty amazing weapon catching people who overstep in skirmishes.

[Draxas]

wandering vagabond, on 10 September 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

No, i did not get hit by siege weapons. This was 1v1 in open field combat, there was not another person around. This Asuran warrior plinked me with arrows hitting me for 5-6k each time.

It is simply not possible for a warrior's auto-attack with any weapon to hit for 5-6k, with any amount of power that is achievable and the lowest possible toughness you could have.  Therefore you are indeed way over-exaggerating your situation.  The only other possibilities are that he was somehow hacking, you have truly delusional memories of him hitting you that hard, or that you were hit by a siege weapon.  Being hit by a ballista in particular does not have a noticeable animation, you just take a good chunk of damage, and it has very, very long range.  5-6k sounds about right for that.

I haven't taken my Guardian into WvW yet because yes I agree, it would suck for the average pug zerg vs zerg.  I have played plenty of sPvP with her though and I can assure you that Guardians are one of the tankiest classes in the game if you spec for it.

As for the rest of your post...kid?  Yeah, I haven't been a kid for a while but you are apparently looking to start a flame war, so I'm just going to ignore your own insults.  Also, paladins are weak in every game?  That's definitely not the case, nor is it in this one.  Guardians are very powerful in any situation except zerg vs zerg WvW and if you fail to see that, I don't know what to tell you.  Nothing really needs fixing except for an overhaul on the Scepter IMO.  Now if you want to get into constructive discussion on good builds and such then great, I know a few, but first you need to calm down and quit being so reactionary.

[LeFire]

I suspect that the massive differences in opinion on the Guardian being OP or UP, are largely due to 2 factors, and that these 2 factors make or break the Guardian

1.) Type of combat: 1 vs 1, sPVP, or WvW

In 1 vs 1, I am told that the Guardian has a great advantage, largely due to his blinds, Aegis block and spirit weapon Hammer auto knockback and command knockdown. All 3 abilities cause constant disruptions to the other guy's plans, prevent CC chain-starters from landing, sometimes totally negate (and not just reduce) huge attacks, and make the other guy hesitate from using abilities at crucial seconds. In sPVP, closing with the enemy is pretty easy... For the few ranged weapons pointed at you can be blocked by aegis and focus abilties/blinds, allowing you to get into melee in relative safety.

Things are drastically different in WvW, where the Guardian must charge up to a hundred muskets (basically all the other side's players who have "target closest enemy" binded to their TAB key) before getting into the melee groove.

2.) Average pub group versus coordinated group

Even if the Guardian survives the rain of 1200 fire and closes into melee, his few seconds of blocks and blinds will only help him that much. Like a real-world infantry officer, he relies on his group following his lead, and dies alone if they don't. When the group has high trust, morale and coordination, I can see how the Guardian seems OP, being both individually proficient in melee and very group-buff orientated. When the group has no trust, average morale, and little coordination (e.g. most public groups) and will not follow the Guardian into the breach, the Guardian is underpowered, with his poor range abilities.

All that said, the Guardian lacks "choice", I feel, due to lack of reliable ranged, instant-hit weapons (utilities don't count, as they take up a slot). It is locked into the roles of charge-leader or support, while offering little for someone who wants to DPS at range. This goes against the core GW2 philosophy of allowing each class to have options. I would prefer if (in decreasing desirability):

1.) A 1200 range 2-hand crossbow was introduced, giving both Guardians and Thieves (which I hear is another class that suffers from no good 1200 range options) an option to contribute in battleline standoff and siege.

2.) If (1) is too much work, to increase the speed of the sceptre's projectile to that close to the longbow, and just below the rifle.

3.) To allow Guardians to carry a rifle (not longbow unless it is given 1200 range too). Not very lore-friendly given the rather traditional weapons of the Guardian, but I am certain the idea of heavy-armour and holy rifle can still work (e.g. Warhammer 40k's gun-toting Space Marine folks).

[dirkaderpa]

LeFire, on 11 September 2012 - 01:15 AM, said:

I suspect that the massive differences in opinion on the Guardian being OP or UP, are largely due to 2 factors, and that these 2 factors make or break the Guardian

1.) Type of combat: 1 vs 1, sPVP, or WvW

In 1 vs 1, I am told that the Guardian has a great advantage, largely due to his blinds, Aegis block and spirit weapon Hammer auto knockback and command knockdown. All 3 abilities cause constant disruptions to the other guy's plans, prevent CC chain-starters from landing, sometimes totally negate (and not just reduce) huge attacks, and make the other guy hesitate from using abilities at crucial seconds. In sPVP, closing with the enemy is pretty easy... For the few ranged weapons pointed at you can be blocked by aegis and focus abilties/blinds, allowing you to get into melee in relative safety.

Things are drastically different in WvW, where the Guardian must charge up to a hundred muskets (basically all the other side's players who have "target closest enemy" binded to their TAB key) before getting into the melee groove.

2.) Average pub group versus coordinated group

Even if the Guardian survives the rain of 1200 fire and closes into melee, his few seconds of blocks and blinds will only help him that much. Like a real-world infantry officer, he relies on his group following his lead, and dies alone if they don't. When the group has high trust, morale and coordination, I can see how the Guardian seems OP, being both individually proficient in melee and very group-buff orientated. When the group has no trust, average morale, and little coordination (e.g. most public groups) and will not follow the Guardian into the breach, the Guardian is underpowered, with his poor range abilities.

All that said, the Guardian lacks "choice", I feel, due to lack of reliable ranged, instant-hit weapons (utilities don't count, as they take up a slot). It is locked into the roles of charge-leader or support, while offering little for someone who wants to DPS at range. This goes against the core GW2 philosophy of allowing each class to have options. I would prefer if (in decreasing desirability):

1.) A 1200 range 2-hand crossbow was introduced, giving both Guardians and Thieves (which I hear is another class that suffers from no good 1200 range options) an option to contribute in battleline standoff and siege.

2.) If (1) is too much work, to increase the speed of the sceptre's projectile to that close to the longbow, and just below the rifle.

3.) To allow Guardians to carry a rifle (not longbow unless it is given 1200 range too). Not very lore-friendly given the rather traditional weapons of the Guardian, but I am certain the idea of heavy-armour and holy rifle can still work (e.g. Warhammer 40k's gun-toting Space Marine folks).

Lol I want a holy rifle guardian just b/c of how trolly it will be to buff your allies with a gun. Heck, they should have the rifle as a spirit weapon.

[Itharius]

I got really frustrated in WvW because I was running around in full lvl 80 exotics scoring bronze on defensive objectives. That's because Guardians simply do pitiful ranged damage, and the contribution system is borked. However, then I took a REALLY defensive spec and started to learn the tricks of tower defense, such as popping in and out to lay symbols and aoe in clusters of enemy attackers, and effectively using siege weapons, and I started getting gold contributions in PvP. Yeah, the game won't recognize your contributions as much as it will ranged classes, which really does suck, but you will be making much larger contributions to the battle than other professions can if you play the guardian to its strengths - supports, survivability, and wards.

And it feels pretty nice to be almost unkillable in WvW except by huge zergs. I can tank a group of ten enemies directly for ten or more seconds, feels good.

Doing an honor/virtues build with hammer and stacking toughness and healing power.

Remember also - you only need 1000 dmg to get full credit for a kill in WvW, and that's about how much damage your mighty blow hammer ability will do, at minimum. So it's very easy to "tag" opponents while still being support.

Edited by Itharius, 16 September 2012 - 04:48 AM.

[Itharius]

Ob1ivion, on 10 September 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

Everyone we help boasts over their number of badges and I'm left with a third of what they're getting.  

You'll get the same number of badges as they do so long as you do two staff-autoattacks worth of damage to enemies. Remember to hit F as soon as you see xp pop up, because the loot bag teleports to where you're standing.

[Selmu]

Well guardians are just incredible good, and awesome in wvwvw. Ranged damage dont kill in wvwvw, what kills and what make diference, are the ability of incentive a push.

With greatsword for instance you can go and bind ppl, when the enemy start retreat you pull then and ban, dead ppl., with scepter you have one of the most imba imobilize of the game.

And im not entering in how powerfull, cool, usefull and fun are the barriers/bubbles.

I use a thief, a very useless wvwvw class due to lack of aoe(per say), and we have a ranger a guardian and a necro.

I just quick spin, the guardian pull, the ranger perma root, and the necro use DS the drain life thing, 4 of us with cordinated attack make 30 dumbs retreat.

Edited by Selmu, 16 September 2012 - 05:02 AM.

[mutalisk]

flint11, on 06 September 2012 - 02:40 AM, said:

Gear isn't even the remotely most important thing in deciding the outcome of a WvW battle..

That's not true, im in full exotics and when i fight people that are not i know i start my chain pull cast teleport mid cast (for instance chain grab) lay my symbol down pull and spin deal 15k damage and laugh because i know he did not have any thing close to my gear

2,090+ power, 35/38% crit, 17,500+ hps, 2028 toughness, putting me right at 3.3k armor

if 30 people taking a keep had my stats they would melt an enemy team without exotics..... destroy then in seconds.

Edited by mutalisk, 17 September 2012 - 01:55 PM.

[Itharius]

flint11, on 06 September 2012 - 02:40 AM, said:

Gear isn't even the remotely most important thing in deciding the outcome of a WvW battle.

I can 1v3 pretty easily in WvW. Is it because I'm so 1337 skillz0red? No, it's probably because of my full exotics and 70 trait points versus level 10s in blue gear.

Edited by Itharius, 17 September 2012 - 11:58 PM.

[Sannhet]

wandering vagabond, on 10 September 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

I will ignore your petty and childish insults. No, i did not get hit by siege weapons. This was 1v1 in open field combat, there was not another person around. This Asuran warrior plinked me with arrows hitting me for 5-6k each time. I actually died mid-flight doing a leap of faith in an attempt to engage him.

It is people like you who keep classes from being properly balanced. You probably roll with a mindless zerg 24/7 in WvW or you do sPvP where other classes mask your flaws and then you assume the guardian is just fine. I dare you to try dueling with this class, that is what will show you the real balances. I know the game is not balanced around 1v1, but it is the best scenario to compare damage output and survivability.

Kid, I have been playing MMOs since you were in 1st grade. I was an old school UO vet starting in 1998, I have played everything from EQ to DAOC to WoW to WAR. The paladin archetype class is ALWAYS weak in any game which is class based. The devs never have any friggin clue what to do with this archetype, so it always ends up being mediocre in every aspect.

Go and duel, find a straggler 1v1 in WvW and hope he is competent. Or better yet make a friend in another realm and meet up with him 1v1 when he is in your WvW group. You may beat him once in a while and it will require blowing EVERY single ability you have. When you equate that to real combat, it means you are useless. When you need to blow every ability at your disposable to handle one person, it means you will struggle immensely in sPvP and WvW.

Look at the game itself. Guardian is the least played class at higher levels. Just walk around any capital cities, any zones, look around in WvW...you will not see many Guardians at all. You will see a BOATLOAD of warriors and thieves and a mish-mash of necros, eles and mesmers. Engineers seem to currently suffer from underpopulation as well, but I do not play one so I can not comment.

I know my way around these games. GW2 has very simplistic PvP compared to many games I've played in the past. You are the type of person who likes to be intentionally be contrarian in any given situation because it strokes your ego, I understand that, you're obviously between the ages of 18 and 25, so you're a young arrogant kiddo who doesn't know his butt from his nose. You can delude yourself all you want or you can take the advice of someone much wiser than you: Guardian is a broken class right now and is useless in most PvP situations.

It does not matter if we stack toughness or HP or go pure offense. It does not matter if we use 2H weapons or sword/torch or anything, we lack PvP offense, PvP defense and PvP utility. For the minor ability we have to mitigate damage slightly better than some classes, it means nothing, because we can be kited and toyed with so easily like a cat playing with a mouse. Use your leap or faith or blink, you will just get knocked back and kited again, use your binding blades to drag him back to you, the CC lasts about half a second and he will continue to kite you while laughing all the way to the bank.

This class is shelved for a long time for me. I will be rolling a Warrior or Elementalist and I will giggle every time I obliterate a poor sap who still thinks Guardian is a worthwhile class. Class is broken, you can delude yourself like the immature child that you are or you can wise up to reality and understand Guardian is the single weakest class in the game. The choice is yours.

How quaint, someone complaining about childish insults yet filling his post with them. Anyway, kid (see how ludicrous this sounds?), when I first read this post I was tempted to write a book, much like you did, pointing out each individual flaw (Guardians least played class at 80) and logical error (level 80 warrior in exotics shot me in my level 10 gear for 6k, must be a class imbalance) in your dissertation. I was even tempted to make a TL;DR version essentially pointing out that if everyone else here (including myself) does well in EVERY SINGLE aspect of PvP *except* 1200 range skirmishes in WvW, and yet you do not, you should be able to figure out the common denominator there yourself (hint: It's not the class).

Instead, I'll say this: I have been playing MMOs as long as you have, I am not between the ages of 18-25, and I won't belittle you for being frustrated with the class because perhaps the class truly isn't for you. All I'm saying is to get off your podium for a minute and take an actual look at what you're talking about. Being honestly frustrated is one thing, but arguing with people trying to assist you by telling them they're just wrong because it's not you it's the class (come on now, we've been hearing that for how long now?) isn't wising up to anything, it's being an immature child.

Edited by Sannhet, 18 September 2012 - 10:53 AM.

[ShocknAwe]

How to enjoy a Guardian in WvWvW in 2 easy steps.

1.) Lay down Wall of Reflection in front of a bunch of ranged users.
2.) Laugh your ass off as they kill themselves.



Other fun things include:

• Zealot's Embrace and Ring of Warding with hammer.  Catch those pesky skirmishers as they come in for hits and don't let them go.
  
• Empower with Staff: see how much might you can stack.
  
• Line of Warding with Staff to prevent escapes, especially fun at chokepoints where enemies literally can't get around it and melt to the oncoming zerg.
  
• Save Yourselves + Contemplation of Purity, both because a screen full of buffs is fun in itself and with 25 points in Virtue you hit like a truck.
  
• Run Greatsword/Sword with Judge's Intervention and Merciful Intervention and teleport around the battlefield.

Edited by ShocknAwe, 18 September 2012 - 02:11 PM.

[roadgrit]

Sept 17 patch.....

Retaliation: This boon no longer reflects damage received from siege weapons.

this really sucks for us .... they just took one of our major reasons for being in WvW away from us.

[Alphatier]

roadgrit, on 18 September 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

Sept 17 patch.....

Retaliation: This boon no longer reflects damage received from siege weapons.

this really sucks for us .... they just took one of our major reasons for being in WvW away from us.

If that is the major reason you feel viable in WvWvW, you have got other problems awaiting for you.

[roadgrit]

Alphatier, on 18 September 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

If that is the major reason you feel viable in WvWvW, you have got other problems awaiting for you.

ok, tell me how we best impact the battle field, we are support mostly...I can deal with it and like it....but now they are limiting one of our best supporting roles, protection....tell me why I have problems understanding this, the guardian is a support roll first and a meat shield second....we are by no means a DPS hero or a ranged AOE hero.

We are talking WvW here not anything else,like 1v1 and PVE or even sPVP. I seen a lot of talk about other things other than WvW, so you tell me what your roll is in WvW.

[Psyblade]

roadgrit, on 18 September 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

ok, tell me how we best impact the battle field, we are support mostly...I can deal with it and like it....but now they are limiting one of our best supporting roles, protection....tell me why I have problems understanding this, the guardian is a support roll first and a meat shield second....we are by no means a DPS hero or a ranged AOE hero.

We are talking WvW here not anything else,like 1v1 and PVE or even sPVP. I seen a lot of talk about other things other than WvW, so you tell me what your roll is in WvW.

here is a fun thing to do.

1. Bring mesmer and friends, setup portal
2. Have mesmer setup portal, go through said portal and pull
3. AE the crap out of said portal when everyone is in.
4. Finish of the remaining forces.

Trust me, most fun you can ever have.

Did it yesterday with my guild (roughly 15ppl) did about 3 mesmer bombs.
results, a good 200 kills, 2 servers unable to enter a supply camp depot.
3 destroyed trebuchets
6 destroyed arrowcarts

lots of hilarity on Teamspeak, and alot of dismay when I called to port out to rescue a keep.

Also, check https://forum-en.gui...rdian-WvW-Video

I am tempted to try out that build as well when I have the needed materials for exotic mace, hammer and shield.

Edited by Psyblade, 18 September 2012 - 03:41 PM.

[Alphatier]

roadgrit, on 18 September 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

ok, tell me how we best impact the battle field, we are support mostly...I can deal with it and like it....but now they are limiting one of our best supporting roles, protection....tell me why I have problems understanding this, the guardian is a support roll first and a meat shield second....we are by no means a DPS hero or a ranged AOE hero.

We are talking WvW here not anything else,like 1v1 and PVE or even sPVP. I seen a lot of talk about other things other than WvW, so you tell me what your roll is in WvW.

Read the posts in this thread, including mine, to find out what to do in WvWvW. Destroying siege weapons with retaliation was just wrong and they are right in adressing it. It was never a big part of guardian wvwvwv play

[Itharius]

roadgrit, on 18 September 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

ok, tell me how we best impact the battle field, we are support mostly...I can deal with it and like it....but now they are limiting one of our best supporting roles, protection....

1. Killing siege weapons with retaliation isn't protection, it's offense.
2. You answered your own question after the second comma.

Edited by Itharius, 19 September 2012 - 05:49 PM.

[Bastion Ravenholm]

Considering that we can still keep Retaliation up on several people almost permanently, and how strong Retaliation is, I wouldn't consider the tweak in any way unjust. Actually, I would call it a fix, because the interaction with Guardians and Carts felt shady at best.

It's still a very strong boon to have around in trades.

[Itharius]

Bastion Ravenholm, on 20 September 2012 - 08:29 AM, said:

Considering that we can still keep Retaliation up on several people almost permanently, and how strong Retaliation is, I wouldn't consider the tweak in any way unjust. Actually, I would call it a fix, because the interaction with Guardians and Carts felt shady at best.

It's still a very strong boon to have around in trades.

Retaliation does so much damage. A ranger volleys you while you have retaliation up, that's about 2000 damage. People really underestimate it. I once had a warrior actually kill himself on me without me even attacking, he brought himself from 100% to downed by attacking me while I had retaliation, protection, and regen up.

Edited by Itharius, 26 September 2012 - 12:51 AM.

[Bastion Ravenholm]

Itharius, on 26 September 2012 - 12:50 AM, said:

Retaliation does so much damage. A ranger volleys you while you have retaliation up, that's about 2000 damage. People really underestimate it. I once had a warrior actually kill himself on me without me even attacking, he brought himself from 100% to downed by attacking me while I had retaliation, protection, and regen up.

Are you me? This happened to a Warrior attacking me a couple of days ago.

[Itharius]

Bastion Ravenholm, on 27 September 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

Are you me? This happened to a Warrior attacking me a couple of days ago.

I know dude, it's crazy. If they're using double axes and they whirlwind you, that's like 1000 dps in retaliation.

[RamataKahn]

wandering vagabond, on 10 September 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

I will ignore your petty and childish insults. No, i did not get hit by siege weapons. This was 1v1 in open field combat, there was not another person around. This Asuran warrior plinked me with arrows hitting me for 5-6k each time. I actually died mid-flight doing a leap of faith in an attempt to engage him.

It is people like you who keep classes from being properly balanced. You probably roll with a mindless zerg 24/7 in WvW or you do sPvP where other classes mask your flaws and then you assume the guardian is just fine. I dare you to try dueling with this class, that is what will show you the real balances. I know the game is not balanced around 1v1, but it is the best scenario to compare damage output and survivability.

Kid, I have been playing MMOs since you were in 1st grade. I was an old school UO vet starting in 1998, I have played everything from EQ to DAOC to WoW to WAR. The paladin archetype class is ALWAYS weak in any game which is class based. The devs never have any friggin clue what to do with this archetype, so it always ends up being mediocre in every aspect.

Go and duel, find a straggler 1v1 in WvW and hope he is competent. Or better yet make a friend in another realm and meet up with him 1v1 when he is in your WvW group. You may beat him once in a while and it will require blowing EVERY single ability you have. When you equate that to real combat, it means you are useless. When you need to blow every ability at your disposable to handle one person, it means you will struggle immensely in sPvP and WvW.

Look at the game itself. Guardian is the least played class at higher levels. Just walk around any capital cities, any zones, look around in WvW...you will not see many Guardians at all. You will see a BOATLOAD of warriors and thieves and a mish-mash of necros, eles and mesmers. Engineers seem to currently suffer from underpopulation as well, but I do not play one so I can not comment.

I know my way around these games. GW2 has very simplistic PvP compared to many games I've played in the past. You are the type of person who likes to be intentionally be contrarian in any given situation because it strokes your ego, I understand that, you're obviously between the ages of 18 and 25, so you're a young arrogant kiddo who doesn't know his butt from his nose. You can delude yourself all you want or you can take the advice of someone much wiser than you: Guardian is a broken class right now and is useless in most PvP situations.

It does not matter if we stack toughness or HP or go pure offense. It does not matter if we use 2H weapons or sword/torch or anything, we lack PvP offense, PvP defense and PvP utility. For the minor ability we have to mitigate damage slightly better than some classes, it means nothing, because we can be kited and toyed with so easily like a cat playing with a mouse. Use your leap or faith or blink, you will just get knocked back and kited again, use your binding blades to drag him back to you, the CC lasts about half a second and he will continue to kite you while laughing all the way to the bank.

This class is shelved for a long time for me. I will be rolling a Warrior or Elementalist and I will giggle every time I obliterate a poor sap who still thinks Guardian is a worthwhile class. Class is broken, you can delude yourself like the immature child that you are or you can wise up to reality and understand Guardian is the single weakest class in the game. The choice is yours.

You just suck. You really do, I don't care how many mmos you've played but it doesn't matter because you obviously sucked in those as well. It is a fact that guardians shine in spvp & tpvp and are considered OP by some, and they do fine in WvWvW if played correctly. Rolling a warrior huh? A good guardian will kill a good warrior eveytime end of story, what class are you going to roll then? Might as well do a thief now.

[Phokus]

I've tried many variations of Guardian in builds in WvW from pure glass cannon (GS, Scepter/Torch) to a defensive build around Retaliation, to Spirit Weapons, and to Staff support (consecration build).  I haven't tried a "pure" healing build as another guild member runs that and it's pretty effective when in a group (Staff/GS).

I've said this a few weeks back but my firm belief is that Guardian's main role in WvW is strictly support.  Sure people will do well in a pure damage setup but from what I've seen and done, no other class can turn the tide of a battle than a Guardian with the right setup and utilities.  At the moment I use a Consecration build (0/0/10/30/30) with a Staff and one single Wall of Reflect at the right spot sends people running backwards.  It really comes together when you're in an organized group but is still fun and effective if you're by yourself.

But this is just my thinking on the Guardian class in WvW.  Play whichever style you enjoy the most and go from there.

[The_Kaizz]

I feel slightly the same as OP. My Guardian is 80, and the class is hands down my most loved class since BWE1, hell, since they announced the class. I do a good mix of everything except SPvP, but that's changing. Guardians in WvW seem pretty useless at first glance: lack or ranged damage (scepter with 1 aoe, and the range on all the ranged weapons is pretty low), low mobility unless you're using a staff or something, but that's the only downsides. Guardians are great for support, even if not specced for it. With a staff you can really control a fight, and give decent heals and support buffs. Depending on how you play, Guardians are really effective at WvW. Saying that they're useless in WvW is wrong though, if you're basing it solely off sieging keeps.

[Mako482]

I think the sense Guardian is lacking in WvW is the fact the game is all about range, and we are lacking it. Any melee class is at a disadvantage out there for this reason. As support I shine, period. It is a thankless job but you can certainly be the difference for your side. Wall of reflection is awsome, also use staff 4 alot, if you spec for boons given to allies to heal yourself that same staff ability will give you some huge healing while you are giving your entire team might. I pump out tons of heals as well and can help keep everyone up.

It's not for everyone, I just came to the realization that this is the best way for me to be effective. When i want to pew pew I get on an alt. Funny thing is no matter how much dps I can do with an alt I still feel like I help my team MUCH more with my guardian.

Edited by Mako482, 30 September 2012 - 04:44 PM.

[Drekor]

FYI staff is arguable the best zerg fighting weapon in the entire game. I'd only place elementalist staff and mesmer focus OH(traited) higher. It does absolutely ludicrous damage if you use it properly. It has 2 1200 range AoEs and an massive AoE auto attack that becomes usable with the use of things like wall of reflection and sanctuary. Tome of wrath is also one of the best WvW elites in the game, massive AoE damage and huge group buffs.

[fredrik77]

If i want too roa, with a small group of m8s and do dmg instead of support. Would this build work in WvW. I were thinking of a mixture of triple-meditationbuild with more survivability.

http://www.guildhead...rTM0GxG0omzabzM

or is staff and Greatsword/hammer build the only viable as Guardian in WvW?

[lmaonade]

No, Guardians are awesome for zerg-busting

[AEnesidem]

wandering vagabond, on 09 September 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:

I may not be an expert on the guardian or WvW yet...but a warrior kiting me with a bow just killed me in literally 3 arrows. Each of them took a chunk of my head off for about 6k damage each.

I chose this class to be defensive and tactical. I'm quickly realizing we have the survivability of a bag of wet toilet paper. At higher levels, every other class goes leaps and bounds ahead of us in damage output, meanwhile ours stays crappy and our defense remains mediocre. Oh a few aegis blocks here and there...so what? Everyone else can heal, everyone else can stack HP and toughness.

What the hell *IS* the role of this class at the end of the day? We're only half as good as a warrior in any given role. Warriors can defend and heal just as much as we can.

Over the last few days I went from enjoying this class and learning all I could about it to the harsh reality that this class serves absolutely zero purpose. A warrior can literally do anything better in any given situation. And I love supporting my team, it's why I rolled this class, but we barely have any support abilities that make a difference in REAL combat. Oh, empower...oh, tiny little orb that heals for next to nothing...oh, 180 second CD with a nice big heal that you will 90% of the time get killed before you even get the spell off. And don't get me started on that dumb swiftness that nobody bothers to use. Pub players don't even know what your symbol does and avoid it 99% of the time, on the offchance some people in sPvP use it, the swiftness is freaking pointless anyway while they're engaged in close combat!

It should raise A LOT of red flags when you see all the high level competitive guardian PvP videos doing nothing but offense. They're just trying to act like the warrior's little brother and completely ignoring what was SUPPOSED to be the intended role of this class.

If all we have to look forward to is doing minor buffing that NOBODY NOTICES and that barely effects the tide of a battle, then this class is in dire need of an overhaul. Either that or play half-assed warrior in which case you should have rolled warrior to begin with.

Ugh, I had hoped dearly Anet would do this class some justice, but it's just the crummy War Priest from Warhammer Online all over again. Never good at doing damage, barely good at buffing and healing, people question why you're on the battlefield at all.

I understand Anet wanted to break the holy trinity, but in doing they've left one huge question mark on the guardian class. WHAT do we even do that other classes can't already do better in some form? Again, EVERYONE can buff, EVERYONE can heal, EVERYONE can dps...except the guardian! The guardian has the worst dps in the game! What's the point of spending 5+ minutes long in a 1v1 duel when I could have played a thief or elementalist that could have finished the fight in about 40 seconds or less...and they can still be defensive and healing on top of it!

Useless shouts, useless meditations, useless consecrations. Useless class, survivability of toilet paper.

We're stuck with the same old problem WoW had. In WoW, Warrior, Rogue and the spellcasters were all overpowered and all other classes were left in the dust for YEARS. Same thing is happening right now. Warrior is a juggernaut on the battlefield with almost no flaws, thieves can drop nearly any class in about 2.5 seconds spamming heartseeker. Sigh. Why did I bother with this class?

wow, way to be a bad and butthurt player. what were you, lvl 3?
I mean first time i went into pvp with 2 thieves a warrior and a ranger a guardian killed all 4 of us after being downed.  Our defense isn't mediocre at all. Even in pve at lvl 30 i survive more than some lvl 80 players. Still you proceed ranting and insulting other people because they understand that the problem lies with you and not with the guardian. And that you are a game vet does not interest anyone. You clearly lack intelligence and your lunatic style of posting gives me a headache.

do me a favor, instead of shelving this class, shelve the game.

As some said already you can't be lvl 3 and expect to faceroll everyone. You have no traits and no good armor, so its normal you will die more easily than a fully equipped lvl 80. And its not because you have a ton of defensive skills that you can just take all the hits. You still need skill, and a minimum of understanding mechanics if you want to be a good player.