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PVE Concerns [Spoilers!]

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#1 Tismo

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 05:15 AM

A friend asked me to post this here. I personally have been focusing more on PVP.


Spoiler

So what do you guys think of PVE/instances?

Edited by Tismo, 06 September 2012 - 05:16 AM.


#2 Knuckledust13

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 05:22 AM

Agree with your friend, lackluster at least.

Now imagine you will have to run the SAME instance dozens of times to get the Set.... yeah.

#3 Zombius

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 05:50 AM

Sadly I find this all to be true oddly enough.  I love instances coming from a handful of MMO titles I've always been a fan of instances you all team up to kill a boss and get loot and its really all about the chance of loot for me.  I also agree that the instances lack originality it really is just one elite after another kill a boss get non unique loot and repeat till the end of the dungeon.  The last boss was almost funny as my whole party was joking about how poor the final fight was...when we got there they were right it was terrible sadly.

Also I dont understand the scaling, on a level 80 I go back to say Ascalon Catacombs and my repair bills are so rediculous for the rewards out of the dungeon there is no reason I would want to go back to early content like that.  But to top it all off that instance is all the same combat formula as the last even the bosses dont stand out.  The scaling needs to be more rewarding to high levels going back and getting dropped levels because how it is now I will never do low level dungeons based on repair bills and teleport costs.

Who knows maybe the lack of holy trinity is really hurting the game in a PVE sense.  I was hyped at a new format with no tanks and healers but not if it has to be like this.  Im sad and dissapointed that the only thing I still like is the PVP, and I'm generally more into PVE and dungeons.  There must be something wrong with the format of these dungeons rolling and running around is fine during a dynamic boss attack but when all you do is run around spamming mob after mob it gets boring quite fast.  How is this a step in the right direction  seems there is no set loot from bosses like loot tables so I find that not rewarding or motivating.  Not to mention playing them is downright repetetive, the boss fights and the mobs make you do the same thing over and over again...I'm honestly dissapointed at this I hope there is something that can be done or changed.  I really like this game but I agree with OP's friend the PVE especially when it comes to instances is very very poor.

Edited by Zombius, 06 September 2012 - 06:00 AM.


#4 Lollie

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 05:50 AM

The combat in this game lends itself more to single player dungeons than to raids. They just need to add more single player instances in and forget the larger dungeons, they're not going to work for this type of combat.

Edited by Lollie, 06 September 2012 - 05:51 AM.


#5 Zombius

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 05:56 AM

View PostLollie, on 06 September 2012 - 05:50 AM, said:

The combat in this game lends itself more to single player dungeons than to raids. They just need to add more single player instances in and forget the larger dungeons, they're not going to work for this type of combat.

Whats the point of playing an MMO if all you do is play single player?  I do agree though there needs to be drastic changes as I think something about the combat system does limit and cripple the classic MMO appeal, and sadly this substitute just is not up to par.

#6 Kable

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:00 AM

View PostTismo, on 06 September 2012 - 05:15 AM, said:

A friend asked me to post this here. I personally have been focusing more on PVP.


Spoiler

So what do you guys think of PVE/instances?

It may be too early for me to judge since I did my first dungeon a day ago, but I found it fun and rewarding for my level. I did it at lvl 30/31. Each boss had some different abilities to watch out for, The traps were cool, the torches everywhere was an interesting part as well. Really it may depend on your group. I have not tried the explorable modes yet but I hear there are several with different stories and bosses. Should be alot of fun as well as challenging. Also the fact there are so many more dungeons to go that are all different should be good times for sure. Might also be that people are set on the old style of tanks, dps, healers, and not giving this new way a fair try. Every major MMO I have played thru the dungeons has had elite mobs to fight between bosses and then boss mechanics that required the raid or group to move around alot to stay alive so really the complaints are a little misplaced here.

#7 The Kindly Man

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:12 AM

These combat mechanics do not work in an MMO.

The aggro mechanics are dodgy at best, I'd even say random, and then you get a mob like the two lovers in AC who you're suppose to keep apart... With no aggro mechanics.

It's like they only thought this through only half way...
They didn't want the holy trinity, but they had no idea what to do instead.
These mechanics do okay in a single-player game.... But this is an MMO.
And all group content feels zergy, Benny Hill-running around, etc.

Not good.

Edited by The Kindly Man, 06 September 2012 - 06:13 AM.


#8 Nedra

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:17 AM

Yea dungeons are not good.

It's surprising because dungeons in Eye of the North were excellent.

I don't know what happened. I think it's just revealing the fact that combat mechanics are poorly designed.

Edited by Nedra, 06 September 2012 - 06:17 AM.


#9 Jyasu

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:19 AM

View PostZombius, on 06 September 2012 - 05:56 AM, said:

Whats the point of playing an MMO if all you do is play single player?  I do agree though there needs to be drastic changes as I think something about the combat system does limit and cripple the classic MMO appeal, and sadly this substitute just is not up to par.

A smart guy said,

"MMOs are a single player game with best living/dynamic world you can find in any genre".

GW2 has great PVE- great solo PVE. It would be worth 60 bucks if it was entirely offline- especially considering it beats games released on console in those regards.

#10 Misce

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:27 AM

View PostTismo, on 06 September 2012 - 05:15 AM, said:

A friend asked me to post this here. I personally have been focusing more on PVP.


Spoiler

So what do you guys think of PVE/instances?

I agree with your friend completely. Now apply the same thing on hearts, "dynamic" events and open world PvE in general. You get one sad sad game.

View PostJyasu, on 06 September 2012 - 06:19 AM, said:

A smart guy said,

"MMOs are a single player game with best living/dynamic world you can find in any genre".

GW2 has great PVE- great solo PVE. It would be worth 60 bucks if it was entirely offline- especially considering it beats games released on console in those regards.

NO. A huge NO. I should be satisfied because it beats the console games...?! People bought GW2 for wanting to play an MMORPG but it would be good if it was entirely offline...?!

Don't find petty excuses for it.

#11 Jyasu

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:34 AM

View PostMisce, on 06 September 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:


I agree with your friend completely. Now apply the same thing on hearts, "dynamic" events and open world PvE in general. You get one sad sad game.



NO. A huge NO. I should be satisfied because it beats the console games...?! People bought GW2 for wanting to play an MMORPG but it would be good if it was entirely offline...?!

Don't find petty excuses for it.

Find excuses for what?

I bought it because it was an MMO, also, but I've enjoyed the solo content. Its no Dragon Age- but its a decent game none-the-less. Why can't players look beyond the genre and accept games for its tangible content?

#12 Misce

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:42 AM

View PostJyasu, on 06 September 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

Find excuses for what?

I bought it because it was an MMO, also, but I've enjoyed the solo content. Its no Dragon Age- but its a decent game none-the-less. Why can't players look beyond the genre and accept games for its tangible content?

People want to get what they were promised to receive. I bought this because it was advertised to send WoW to oblivion with it's awesome new combat system, PvE, PvP and team work incentives. When they failed at EVERY SINGLE POINT I MENTIONED - I should think to myself "well ok, it's still a good single player game" and accept it for what it is? O.o

Sorry but I don't feel that way, not one bit.

#13 Jyasu

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:50 AM

View PostMisce, on 06 September 2012 - 06:42 AM, said:

People want to get what they were promised to receive. I bought this because it was advertised to send WoW to oblivion with it's awesome new combat system, PvE, PvP and team work incentives. When they failed at EVERY SINGLE POINT I MENTIONED - I should think to myself "well ok, it's still a good single player game" and accept it for what it is? O.o

Sorry but I don't feel that way, not one bit.

Well, in that case, my response could be seen as an excuse to you- but we don't share the same thoughts.
You're clearly tired of a tired genre, like I said, you should try accepting the games for whats tangible and stop trying to make something more of it. Otherwise, maybe another genre is good. I was away from MMO for a while playing EU3 and Civ 5 and I didn't feel like I was missing out.

Besides, this game doesn't have a monthly fee-- so at very least you're offered a few hours of boredom relief every now and again-- obviously you care enough about the game to come onto the forums and complain about how much you dislike it. I have a feeling that you like many qualities, otherwise, I wouldn't expect you to have played much.

What are you? Level 80? :P

#14 Garnatian

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 06:59 AM

Unfortunately I'd have to agree.

#15 Misce

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:08 AM

View PostJyasu, on 06 September 2012 - 06:50 AM, said:

Well, in that case, my response could be seen as an excuse to you- but we don't share the same thoughts.
You're clearly tired of a tired genre, like I said, you should try accepting the games for whats tangible and stop trying to make something more of it. Otherwise, maybe another genre is good. I was away from MMO for a while playing EU3 and Civ 5 and I didn't feel like I was missing out.

Besides, this game doesn't have a monthly fee-- so at very least you're offered a few hours of boredom relief every now and again-- obviously you care enough about the game to come onto the forums and complain about how much you dislike it. I have a feeling that you like many qualities, otherwise, I wouldn't expect you to have played much.

What are you? Level 80? :P

No friend, you misunderstood. I am not tired of the genre, I love the genre. I just want what they advertised, but didn't deliver.

I wish it was a mature, challenging game which requires intelligence and clever strategy to play successfully and where team work is essential. One might argue it's already so, but it isn't. "Team work" = random players zerg. "Strategy and smart play" = dodge rolling and auto attack. You can't even recognize what skill a mob or a player will use most of the time in order to counter it.

I just want a good quality game in the genre, not a 9-year old friendly console trash.

#16 Zombius

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:49 AM

View PostMisce, on 06 September 2012 - 07:08 AM, said:

No friend, you misunderstood. I am not tired of the genre, I love the genre. I just want what they advertised, but didn't deliver.

I wish it was a mature, challenging game which requires intelligence and clever strategy to play successfully and where team work is essential. One might argue it's already so, but it isn't. "Team work" = random players zerg. "Strategy and smart play" = dodge rolling and auto attack. You can't even recognize what skill a mob or a player will use most of the time in order to counter it.

I just want a good quality game in the genre, not a 9-year old friendly console trash.

Misce, I agree with you 100%.

The game seems to miss that dynamic it was going for and it feels the Instances suffered more than anything.  Single player games are great and all such as Skyrim to name a big title in the RPG genre.  However this is an MMO, anticipated by millions as the next big thing in MMO gaming.  To me MMO's need to have that core of role based strategy to overcome the odds and challenges of a dungeon.

It seems this has been melted down into 5 people just simply walking into the dungeon rolling around, watching tired cut scenes, participating in repetetive fights over and over again until the instance is complete.  I've heard there is a coin farming system for Explore mode to buy gear from an NPC.  While thats fine and all...where is the THRILL OF THE LOOT?  I mean you kill a boss hoping it drops some awesome gear and reward you for your triumphant victory against all odds.  (yeah I went overboard on that lol)  

Instances are probably my favorite part of MMO's they allow the player to Gear up to amazing strength and power well rewarded for grinding boss after boss and mob after mob.  However the core mechanic of even grinding these instances is just lacking thought and any structure worth the gameplay time.

Yes, to the poster who comments "what are you? level 80?
No, im not tired of the MMO genre its one of the very best genres of gaming in my honest opinion.

I just want the next big MMO...I do in a sense want it all...great PVP, great PVE, Great character progression and gameplay.  Guild Wars 2  Boasted all of the above.  However knowing all this, and playing my first instance of GW2 I knew there was something wrong here.  Several instances later my worst fears have been realized, its simply a time sink of repetition added as an afterthought.

I love Guild Wars 2 for the following strong points.
-Amazing Level design and art direction
-Vast Secrets and Jump Puzzles to Explore for fun
-Fast paced balanced PVP
-A large and helpful fan base of players who can easily work together during leveling
-Very nice character customization variety to toggle through Skills, Talents, and Traits

However with all these PRO's I feel abandoned by the game when it comes to Character Gear Progression and Innovative fun Instances which sadly is a large part of my drive to play MMO's.

Edited by Zombius, 06 September 2012 - 07:52 AM.


#17 Khaidu

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 08:33 AM

I think it is a legit concern, as I was very much looking forward to doing dungeons without tanks and healers, but after doing one I am very concerned about the path they chose to take.

The dungeons are cleverly designs, they are not my concern, my concern is the mobs in them and the bosses you encounter. It seems AN really wanted to emphasise dodging, but that is all you really do. There is no real control in boss fights, and the boss fights are pretty much the same, the boss never changes as it grows weaker, it does not change abilities, they are the same from beginning to end.

I think RIFT did a great job in boss fights with having bosses do a multitude of things (Isskal from drowned halls was a good example of a fun and challenging fight which changed constantly and needed everyone to work together), they required constant team work with position, action and using your abilities to your advantage (traps, slows, timing buffs). When the boss hit 80% the skills would change then again at 60-40-20 and 5%. This does not happen from what I can see in the current instances.

This I cannot see currently in the dungeons, the bosses could not be (from what I could tell) controlled with the utilities we had, my freezing traps never worked, my knockback on my longbow never worked, it was a mess.


The lack of reward is also a bit of a put off, I will admit. I do go in for the experience, but if you expect me to run a dungeon multiple times for currency to buy 1 piece then I think I would rather just avoid dungeons altogether as I prefer more engaging dungeons with at least a worthwhile reward at the end of each boss. I am yet to see a decent reward, or even a reward relevant to my class. I never seem to pick up anything relevant to my class in dungeons, even worse is running with all leather/heavy and we all pick up light armour?

#18 bloodthirsty1

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 11:23 PM

MAD. Get a refund and go away already.




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