128 replies to this topic

[XPhiler]

mentalvortex, on 06 September 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

A good debate none the less. Albeit we went completely off-topic of the OP haha.

oops you're right, didnt actually realize we're actually off-topic,  sorry people! but I guess people can find some interesting stuff in there too if they can bare reading all that! man I really need to write stuff in short paragraphs!

[Xaragoth]

Personally I think GW2 PvE will not hold me overly entertained for a very long time. I think I might actually be a bit spoiled by what I experienced from The Secret World Beta. While I still have the sense of wonder and all that right now, I am starting to get bored by the nearly non-existing challenge of my brain, compared to how much TSW asked it to work. I don't have to follow hidden clues on my own, I don't have to actually learn about ancient history to proceed.

GW2 drags you along by your hand (except for crafting Legendaries, which tbh is just random Mystic Forge discovery and not really brain-work) and shows you all the wonders (Puzzles are the exception here, but everyone can find those with a quick look at google). It's still a themepark MMO, it just hid it very clever. The game also has a very, very bad storyline, even when you compare it to the not-so-great one from GW1. It has it's few moments (as did GW1), but overall the story is weak (it doesn't even reach the basic quality of Nightfall). This is part of the issue for me, especially since the storyline basically is 70% the same for all characters.

Right now I am content with trying to craft Sunrise, exploring the world and playing a few other characters with friends/alone, but I don't see myself playing this for long aside from the occasional expansion content. Which is fine, since there is no sub fee, but it's also a bit sad.

GW2 PvP on the other hand will be my choice of fun for a long time, I think. It's a bit similar to MOBA and more balanced (aside from some cheese-builds) so it can actually take me in.


Maybe I should give TSW a real try after I run out of GW2 PvE stuff. For the brain-munching-quests.

Edited by Xaragoth, 06 September 2012 - 07:55 PM.

[Tyranno]

XPhiler, on 06 September 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

Are you sure? dont think they can really do away with flat-leveling curve because activities give a percentage XP and not a fixed XP amount. Example A dynamic event gives 7% of its level in XP

for it takes 15 DE to level from level 1 to level 2 and 15 DE to level from level 79 to 80

However that being said its entirely possible that 1 lvl 1 DE takes 2 minutes to complete while a level 79 to 80 DE might take 30 mins to complete! do you think its that perhaps?

I'm not totally sure to be honest. Unless the curve levels out much later than I expected it to, it would seem it was gone. I remember needing roughly 30k exp to level around level 30, next time I checked how much experience as a number it was around 60k to level around level 60.

I think I read somewhere else that it was removed but I could be wrong.

[XPhiler]

Tyranno, on 06 September 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

I'm not totally sure to be honest. Unless the curve levels out much later than I expected it to, it would seem it was gone. I remember needing roughly 30k exp to level around level 30, next time I checked how much experience as a number it was around 60k to level around level 60.

I think I read somewhere else that it was removed but I could be wrong.

Ahh I see the missunderstanding. you are right in that each level requires more xp. You're exactly right that you need 30k xp to level 30-31 and 60kxp to level 53-54 for example. But the curve still stays level because all activities give a percentage of a level. For example a dynamic event gives 7% of its currently level. That means that provided you're doing Dynamic events that are the same level as your character you need to complete 15 dynamic events at level 1 to level to level 2. 15 dynamic events to level from 30 - 31. 15 dynamic events to level from 53 - 54 and still 15 dynamic events to level from 79-80 even if in each one you need progressively more XP. They only thing that has an effect is how long it takes to complete the dynamic event and I think what they meant by the curve flatting out at level 20 is that after level 20 perhaps it takes the same average amount of time to finish a Dynamic event? not sure could be!

[raspberry jam]

Red_Falcon, on 06 September 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

I was obviously talking about hard mode GNW.
I'd like to see you doing hard mode missions solo, go ahead. You'd die at the first 2 grawls in the beginning.

I've soloed Hell's Precipice HM.

Without heroes.

XPhiler, on 06 September 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

If thats how you enjoy playing sure go ahead! I am just point out why I am doing no crafting and am level 54 and just starting the level 45 area!

It's not how I play, it's how people in general play.

[Tyranno]

XPhiler, on 07 September 2012 - 05:00 AM, said:

Ahh I see the missunderstanding. you are right in that each level requires more xp. You're exactly right that you need 30k xp to level 30-31 and 60kxp to level 53-54 for example. But the curve still stays level because all activities give a percentage of a level. For example a dynamic event gives 7% of its currently level. That means that provided you're doing Dynamic events that are the same level as your character you need to complete 15 dynamic events at level 1 to level to level 2. 15 dynamic events to level from 30 - 31. 15 dynamic events to level from 53 - 54 and still 15 dynamic events to level from 79-80 even if in each one you need progressively more XP. They only thing that has an effect is how long it takes to complete the dynamic event and I think what they meant by the curve flatting out at level 20 is that after level 20 perhaps it takes the same average amount of time to finish a Dynamic event? not sure could be!

That's probably where the confusion came from then. Thanks for clearing that up.

[cesmode]

mentalvortex, on 06 September 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

If you've been reading along with the thread you'd know that the argument isn't that "oh no there's no carrot on the stick this game isn't like WoW at all" the argument is "this game is more like WoW than it is GW, how is this not just your standard MMO?"

Now before we get into an argument that there's already 1000 posts about already, I suggest you read through the thread. Once you've been informed about the points people have been making instead of blindly assuming everyone who doesn't like GW2 is a WoW fanboy you can come discuss.

Im pretty sure you have absolutely no right to tell me what I can and cant post, and what is valid or not.  Forums are for opinions.  Now, Im not saying the only topic being discussed is carrot on a stick...but when people talk about grind, about endgame, about how they are bored at end game, and incentive to get to max level(since there is no traditional endgame), the discussion of carrot on a stick becomes relevant.  Without reading every single post, but a few, I get the gist of what the naysayers of the game are talking about(also from reading other threads as well).

Arrogance is blind my friend.  Don't be quick to judge me in what I choose to talk about in a thread.  Who the hell are you to do that?

[Menlai]

I think the fundamental problem for people is without endgame... they feel there is an end-point for their characters, although it's a false thought, its a valid one. People may argue that clearing DS in WoW for months on end is basically an end-point for your character, but it is something to do/tide you over until you reach the inevitable next expansion, your character is constantly growing/progressing. With GW2, you hit 80... and bam, you have nothing to work for other than legendary weapons which do not improve your character, you then feel like your character is at the end of his/her journey with little prospect of continuing.

With the way GW lore is set out, they couldn't add meaningful content without a full expansion feasibly (especially with the B2P model), which is why I put forward an elite zone idea earlier in this thread. People want the feeling that their character can keep going and going forever, with GW1 we had this with content releases, although stats didn't increase, we had story to fuel our character's egos and history, in GW2... you fight zhaitan... and boom your done, until an expansion releases or w/e, in GW1 you had elite zones at the end of each expansion that you could farm for unique loot and more lore.

My rambling probably has made it hard for you to understand my point so here it is in a nutshell;

Guild Wars 2 hits a brickwall after 80, DE's don't feel meaningful or epic and aren't challenging, so you end up with little in the way of motivation to keep playing at level 80 if your a character-centric player.

[mastermage264]

mentalvortex, on 06 September 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

The issue is mostly that tasks give you very little experience and crafting gives you massive experience (well, if you do a lot of it). As I said I do zero crafting, I just don't like it. I don't find that part of the game enjoyable.

Another part of it may be luck I suppose? If you run into DEs while you're exploring and completing tasks versus they're not currently happening. I feel like having 100% zone completion shouldn't have you under-leveled for the next zone. I ran around looking for DEs in order to get to the next zone - only to end up going to the Sylvari starting location so I could get enough levels to progress. I was about 3 levels behind the next zone location and story-arc quest in Kessex Foothills.

I've run into more than a few hearts that chain into a DE if you wait a bit, and most DE's will chain at least once more after completing them. I think DE's give something like double the xp of hearts? Add to that dungeon runs and any wvw you feel like. I guess I've never just sat down and done 100% map completion over and over to see where I end up. I always have something else I want to do or try and end up leaving a zone for a few hours before coming back to 100% them.

As for crafting, I think that's fine. I didn't do that for quite a while because I took leatherworking and didn't understand salvage kits... ended up wondering if I missed a type of node or something