87 replies to this topic

[Xsiriss]

So it seems they've added diminished returns from repeating events, which frankly is stupid. Yesterday I managed to farm in Orr for hours and still see the same event rewards and that was excruciating enough. The point is to farm/grind/whatever you want to call it both karma and gold for you to be able to gear up once you hit 'end game', and when you reach Orr the whole point is that there are a lot of events for you to participate in. It's supposed to be an entirely rewarding experience.

The only reason I can see this being in place is to counter exploiters, but it's stupid to hurt normal players. It makes the pace at which you can farm dictated rather than free to do as much as you want.

[Lordkrall]

And why would you think that they would care about people farming the same event for hours just because it is easy and gives good rewards?

[orci]

Examples? What is the diminishing rate? Does the rate reset daily? There would all be good things to know.

[Dulu]

I'm convinced the first two replies did not read the OP, and have no idea what he's talking about.

They are adding in tonight's patch reduced rewards for repeating events. (diminishing returns)

Specifics are unknown.

Understand now?

Edited by Dulu, 06 September 2012 - 12:28 PM.

[Naevius]

The question will be what 'repeating' means. Doing the same event over sequentially, or doing it again ever? Or within a certain amount of time?

I'm fine with them reducing rewards if you sit and do an event over and over, but if you cycle thru all the events in a zone repeatedly you should not be penalized.

[Lordkrall]

Dulu, on 06 September 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

I'm convinced the first two replies did not read the OP, and have no idea what he's talking about.

They are adding in tonight's patch reduced rewards for repeating events. (diminishing returns)

Specifics are unknown.

Understand now?

And I am convinced you did not read our replies either.

It is a rather clear indicator that they do not want people to farm simple events.

[Xsiriss]

All events are simple, what are you on about? It's either defend place, kill big creature, or gather materials. The ones I'm specifically referring to are in Orr. Seeing as it's the only lvl 80 area of course I'm going to end up doing the same event chains over again. It's not like you sit in one area doing the same event or even afk/leech farm.

For fram of reference you get 17k xp, ~380 karma and  1 silver 70 copper for an event normally. Once I noticed the code had kicked in I was only getting 7k xp, 170 karma and 75 copper.

Edited by Xsiriss, 06 September 2012 - 12:55 PM.

[DrakeStriker]

How long did it take for the code to kick in?  Was it on your 2nd time through....???

[Lordkrall]

Xsiriss, on 06 September 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

All events are simple, what are you on about? It's either defend place, kill big creature, or gather materials. The ones I'm specifically referring to are in Orr. Seeing as it's the only lvl 80 area of course I'm going to end up doing the same event chains over again. It's not like you sit in one area doing the same event or even afk/leech farm.

For fram of reference you get 17k xp, ~380 karma and  1 silver 70 copper for an event normally. Once I noticed the code had kicked in I was only getting 7k xp, 170 karma and 75 copper.

Simple as in simple to farm.
Like that event that was exploited a week or so ago.
This will lessen that damage until they can fix spawn rates and such if another such even turns up.

And far from all events are simple. There are some rather complex events here and there.

Only lvl 80 area?
Hmm? I am quite sure there is atleast one more up in the north.
And I am also quite sure that you without trouble can walk back to other areas and doing events seeing as you are scaled down.

[Scarlet_Blossom]

Dulu, on 06 September 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

They are adding in tonight's patch reduced rewards for repeating events. (diminishing returns)

It's been there for a long time already. Not only are the rewards you get directly from finishing DEs reduced after a while, but also the amount of drops you get goes towards 0.

Lordkrall, on 06 September 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

And I am also quite sure that you without trouble can walk back to other areas and doing events seeing as you are scaled down.

Yeah, let's do events that give 20 karma to get those 40k karma armor pieces. Great idea.

[RedStar]

Scarlet_Blossom, on 06 September 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

Yeah, let's do events that give 20 karma to get those 40k karma armor pieces. Great idea.

Actually you forget a "0", you get 200+ karma

I'm not yet level 80 so I don't know how much you get. But...I'm kind of someone who isn't bothered by grind as long as what I am grinding isn't something slow and boring. ("Slow" not in the sense that it takes time, but in the sense that it there isn't a lot of things to do in the DE. I prefer to repeat 10 DEs that are active, rather than a DE that gives 10 times the reward but where you are either inactive, or killing endless waves of the same monsters).

[Lordkrall]

Scarlet_Blossom, on 06 September 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

Yeah, let's do events that give 20 karma to get those 40k karma armor pieces. Great idea.

Yeah, let's allow those botters to completely screw up the economy. Great idea.

[orci]

Dulu, on 06 September 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

I'm convinced the first two replies did not read the OP, and have no idea what he's talking about.

They are adding in tonight's patch reduced rewards for repeating events. (diminishing returns)

Specifics are unknown.

Understand now?

Proof of the reported issue and examples so we can determine rates are already able to be captured as this was supposedly implemented with the latest patch.

Resets can be observed as well, if it's possibly time-based or done so by completing other non-related DEs. So really, all of my questions are valid.

Understand now?

Edited by orci, 06 September 2012 - 01:46 PM.

[skullmount4]

Scarlet_Blossom, on 06 September 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

It's been there for a long time already. Not only are the rewards you get directly from finishing DEs reduced after a while, but also the amount of drops you get goes towards 0.

Yeah, let's do events that give 20 karma to get those 40k karma armor pieces. Great idea.

Huh didn't know drops were affected. But I have the same feeling with your second statement.  If we can't farm the high karma point events at end level, its gonna take FOREVER to get enough karma for a full set (as well as sooooo many dungeon runs to get a full set of (exotic) dungeon armor).  They really need to decrease some of the costs, or not nerf event rewards for farming.

RedStar, on 06 September 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

Actually you forget a "0", you get 200+ karma

Huh? I think he meant go to other low(er) level zones and do events, like in the starter zones, which only give about 20-40.

Edited by skullmount4, 06 September 2012 - 01:59 PM.

[GnomGnomGnom]

This sucks. It reminds me of the D3 changes to Nephalem Valour that blizzard put in so that people will run more different areas. It is silly. Why not let people just farm one event? If they like the boring monotonous grinding of the same event so be it. They just needed to adjust some of the quests as to not allow them to be exploited, not put in this stuff.

[Fatalis]

If it means doing the same event again and again, I'm fine with it, as that pretty much is just there to stop botters.

However this might be concerning if it kicks in when doing an event again after doing some other events.

[Lordkrall]

GnomGnomGnom, on 06 September 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

This sucks. It reminds me of the D3 changes to Nephalem Valour that blizzard put in so that people will run more different areas. It is silly. Why not let people just farm one event? If they like the boring monotonous grinding of the same event so be it. They just needed to adjust some of the quests as to not allow them to be exploited, not put in this stuff.

But the thing is. The only "people" who are really hurt by this are bots. Normal players will most likely not even feel it. And it will most likely stop the botters from completely destroying the market.

[Sheepski]

Yeah if this is purely a mechanism to stop botters they need to re-think their priorities. I mean if they can't think of a way of stopping botters or banning them, without harming the whole population... then they've lost the plot.

[GnomGnomGnom]

Lordkrall, on 06 September 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

But the thing is. The only "people" who are really hurt by this are bots. Normal players will most likely not even feel it. And it will most likely stop the botters from completely destroying the market.

Not entirely. There are for certain people who enjoy sitting in one spot and grinding events like old everquest days, so it is not only bots that are affected. As well, my statement not so much about who is affected and who is not. The focus of my disagreement with the change is not how big of an impact it will have on certain populations but rather it is that they are shrinking the degrees by which individuals with different enjoyments of the game by implementing these changes, when there are obviously better ways of handling the situation. It is as if they simply took the easy way out by blocking a certain route instead of properly addressing it.

It is not so much a people issue as it is a way that they are handling problems. Lets say you have a restaurant and your BLT is not so great. Do you make the BLT cheaper or remove the BLT alltogether or do you make the BLT more delicious? It is a narrowing of the gaming experience spectrum that I strongly disagreed with in Diablo 3. In another sense (like in D3) they are forcing you down a certain path that in consistent with "their vision" of how things should be done. "You should enjoy our game by running around all the time looking for events, because that is how we expect people to play". Who are they to say that you should not sit in one spot and grind events? They are pushing their idea of what the game should be! This is somewhat hypocritical to their game vision statement that it is an open world that and that you should be able to enjoy it any way you want isn't it?

I mean is it so hard to increase rewards for subsequent DEs if you travel to a different DE so that if people want to travel, they get approximately the same rewards as those who stay in one place and grind and at the same time fix those easily exploitable dynamic events? Is it that difficult?

This is probably the first time I shake my head at ANet's decision in GW2 and hope they take it back eventually. Well, I suppose it was similar with the cultural weapon vendor thing. They raised the prices so much that you outlevel the karma needed for the level 40/60 weapons. I understand why ANet did all these things but I expected better. I really did. Something other than narrowing the scope of the game. They had figured out the solution of many problems of MMORPGs and made a wonderful game without sacrificing other facets so why do they do it now?

It is very stupid. Hopefully my rant is unwarranted and there are CRITICALLY important reasons why they enforce these ideas of anti-event-farming with this nerf, other than bots, that we do not see. But as the karma weapon vendor price raise and all evidence of this event point to, I really don't think there is any.

Edited by GnomGnomGnom, 06 September 2012 - 02:53 PM.

[zaniix]

When the policy to stop botters makes the game harder for every legit player isn't that worse than the effect of the botter to begin with?

So far I have not had to farm anything, I really hope that when I get to 80 I do not feel compelled to farm a single event over and over, but if that was my most efficient choice it would be sad if that had diminishing returns without an equal alternative.

[Fekktor]

It's probably a reaction on people farming the yak escort quest in WvW (the one that does no longer yield any reward atm as a hotfix).

If it's also meant to prevent people from repeatedly grinding the same DEs in PvE, it reminds me of Blizz nerfing certain quests/spots in D3 to prevent people from redoing the same content over and over.

Thing is - this might rub you the wrong way ('why not let me play the way I want), but from a game design pov it's the sensible thing to do, really. If a certain action, where you repeat a tiny fraction of the content ad nauseum is the most efficient way to level/grind currency, most players feel forced to do it. But they create a whole world, filled with content for you to enjoy, so the optimal approach is to make experiencing the whole content the most efficient way.

Say what you will about D3, but the nerfing of the grind quests/spots led to the above. The most efficient way is to just play the whole content now. It's a good thing, even if the before situation (e.g. kulle runs) was much more convenient, it was also mindless and boring (or should I say 'more mindless and boring'...).

[Meemo]

Each patch seems to make the grind to better cosmetics more horrific. Well done ANET people will be playing this game for 5 decades now to get karma cosmetics!!

Edited by Meemo, 06 September 2012 - 03:01 PM.

[GrandmaFunk]

It's in the spirit of the game to not reward players for doing the same specific task over and over, it's a core element of their design philosphy.

even back in gw1, the longer you stayed in one zone, drops would progressively be worth less.

If your "playstyle" is functionally the same as a bot, you're probably playing the game wrong

[GnomGnomGnom]

Fekktor, on 06 September 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

It's probably a reaction on people farming the yak escort quest in WvW (the one that does no longer yield any reward atm as a hotfix).

If it's also meant to prevent people from repeatedly grinding the same DEs in PvE, it reminds me of Blizz nerfing certain quests/spots in D3 to prevent people from redoing the same content over and over.

Thing is - this might rub you the wrong way ('why not let me play the way I want), but from a game design pov it's the sensible thing to do, really. If a certain action, where you repeat a tiny fraction of the content ad nauseum is the most efficient way to level/grind currency, most players feel forced to do it. But they create a whole world, filled with content for you to enjoy, so the optimal approach is to make experiencing the whole content the most efficient way.

Say what you will about D3, but the nerfing of the grind quests/spots led to the above. The most efficient way is to just play the whole content now. It's a good thing, even if the before situation (e.g. kulle runs) was much more convenient, it was also mindless and boring (or should I say 'more mindless and boring'... ).

No it is not the most effective way in D3 or in GW2. There is no reason to give up something to fix something else. There is the option of making both methods comparable for both populations without sacrificing one thing or the other. Is this really so hard to believe to be possible? It is not sensible, it is the easy way out. There is always a better method where you can satisfy both parties.

Edited by GnomGnomGnom, 06 September 2012 - 03:34 PM.

[InfiniteRetro]

in gw1 they had a similar setup. the more you farmed a certain area the rewards began to steadily decrease.

im sorry to say, but this game is being held back for the sake of hopeful gem purchasing. if its gold you're farming then they'll make sure your wallet will be priority.

who wants to bet eventually you'll be able to swap say gold for karma?

[Meemo]

InfiniteRetro, on 06 September 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

in gw1 they had a similar setup. the more you farmed a certain area the rewards began to steadily decrease.

im sorry to say, but this game is being held back for the sake of hopeful gem purchasing. if its gold you're farming then they'll make sure your wallet will be priority.

who wants to bet eventually you'll be able to swap say gold for karma?

Tradable karma! Now that'll be interesting.

[Lewzephyr]

Dulu, on 06 September 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

I'm convinced the first two replies did not read the OP, and have no idea what he's talking about.

They are adding in tonight's patch reduced rewards for repeating events. (diminishing returns)

Specifics are unknown.

Understand now?

Where are you reading this information that it will be in the patch tonight?
Got any links.

Thanks

[Naevius]

Assuming you've completed all hearts, my understanding is that karma is only obtainable from events - PvE or WvW.

Is that true? Or is there any other way?

[GrandmaFunk]

you don't actually get Karma from renown hearts.

Karma is only obtained from Events and Story missions.

[RedStar]

skullmount4, on 06 September 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Huh? I think he meant go to other low(er) level zones and do events, like in the starter zones, which only give about 20-40.

I don't think Lordkall meant that. I'm pretty sure he meant that you could go to level 50-70 zones to get those karma points. No one same would suggest farming starter zones in order to get end game rewards.

Meemo, on 06 September 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

Each patch seems to make the grind to better cosmetics more horrific. Well done ANET people will be playing this game for 5 decades now to get karma cosmetics!!

The game has been out for 3 weeks...how much karma do you have ? Now consider that you are gaining more karma because you aren't doing low level DEs and that as the game evolves, you are going to learn the areas to "farm" karma while getting around that anti-farm code. How long do you honestly think it will take you to get it ? I'm going to say a week or so if you really want it.