36 replies to this topic

[justinco]

So, what has been frustrating or annoying to you after being in WvW/sPvP for the last week (or two)? What would you like to see fixed or what do you need to learn about to become better?

Here is my list, open to input on how to counter or become better against a class/tactic:

- Clones/duplicates/illusions: I am still having a hard time with Mesmer illusions/clones and the Thief thieves guild (TG not so bad as they just show up as "Thief"). Any tricks to finding the "real" target for Mesmers and avoiding the thief guild when they pop it?

- Stealth/vanishing/teleporting: This is most annoying in WvW and probably what frustrates me the most. I've seen classes vanish and teleport halfway across my clip range (running away from a fight) and thieves/mesmers stealthing multiple times during a fight. Any way to prevent or break stealth/vanish or close gaps from runners? Swiftness and cripples rarely keep runners close enough.

- Run speed: Also most noticeable in WvW, I feel like everyone runs faster then me, even my group mates notice this. I'm not talking about swiftness buffs as that is more pronounced. I know my engineer can trait a 10% run speed ability in combat, curious if all classes have something like this?

- WvW portals for home map: Very frustrating when you are trying to take the northern most supply camp for example. Bad guys will just port to that northern point and are right there to defend. This leaves no chance for small groups to make a swift strike as defense can get there immediately. Not much that can be done about this I guess, just annoyed by the quick portals in WvW when the maps really are not that big.

Overall having a good time in game. However, I think Anet went overboard with the stealth/vanish/teleporting stuff. Gets old really fast when every other fight you are in, the enemy just disappears into thin air.

Edited by justinco, 06 September 2012 - 08:23 PM.

[Sixteen]

Clones and stealth are definitely at the top of the list of annoyance for me. I never thought something could annoy me more than Wow's frost mages and rogues, but GW2 has proven that wrong. The downed mode in general is up there too, mostly because of how ridiculously unbalanced it is between classes.

[Veldan]

Clones and stealth are my main issues as well, in sPvP. They make the game a lot more frustrating and a lot less fun. I never thought anything would annoy me more than the stun chains in early Aion, but people dissapearing all the time in GW2 managed it anyway.

[rassier]

Veldan, on 06 September 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

Clones and stealth are my main issues as well, in sPvP. They make the game a lot more frustrating and a lot less fun. I never thought anything would annoy me more than the stun chains in early Aion, but people dissapearing all the time in GW2 managed it anyway.

Veldan, on 06 September 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

Clones and stealth are my main issues as well, in sPvP. They make the game a lot more frustrating and a lot less fun. I never thought anything would annoy me more than the stun chains in early Aion, but people dissapearing all the time in GW2 managed it anyway.

oh heaven forbid that the entire game isnt people standing still and trading hits like hockey players

[Eddie Sells Out]

First and foremost the single most annoying thing is the downed state, most notably for Thieves, and then Mesmers. Thief downed state is utterly idiotic. The whole point of the downed state (from what I can tell) is to give a brief period of time where your team can either coordinate itself to get a res off or to rally your fallen team mate, or for the other team to coordinate the stomp. In the case of the thieves, this period of time is extended by a considerable, almost indefinite amount of time. What happens is this:

Thief gets killed, if it's a 1v1, let's face it, unless you're playing something tanky, chances are the thief is going to have done quite a bit of damage to you already. You then proceed to try and stomp the thief. Thief teleports away mid stomp. If you're lucky, he'll have teleported somewhere pretty close/easy to spot and you can then stomp him. Otherwise, spend x amount of time looking all around you trying to figure out where on earth they've teleported to. If there are walls etc in the way, it is quite likely that they'll have teleported to the other side of some wall/behind some obstacle. By the time you've found them, their teleport has recharged. You try and stomp them, they teleport away again mid stomp.

Rinse and repeat.

By the time you've actually found them, their team will have had plenty of time to send people to you and to kill you, thus rallying the thief. If it was already a team fight, the amount of things going on and all the animations means its already pretty hard to find the thief after he teleports and the other team has a wide window to kill you before you can stomp.

This is incredibly frustrating. I understand if I put someone into downed and their team is around, they can kill me before the stomp gets off, or I can try and pop stability to ensure I get the stomp. But if you put someone in downed, and no one is around, you should not have to spend another 30 seconds running around trying to actually stomp them while they teleport from place to place, waiting for their team to arrive and then kill you before you even get it off.

The same is partly true for the mesmer downed state, although its not quite as bad, they teleport away leaving a downed clone in their place, which can be annoying but the teleport doesnt seem to be as far and normally you can see which is the teleported player and which is the clone. If there's stuff happening on screen though, then it can become a big hassle again.

This needs to be fixed.

The second annoying thing is the Ruins Of Capricorn map. It's simply awful. NPC sharks around a cap point? They're hardly trivial either, they do a lot of damage, in fact, it's pretty easy to die to them even when no one else is around, meaning whoever caps that point first, is almost guaranteed a win. That sounds balanced. Not even mentioning the underwater combat, and the issues with it, which is a giant headache. Melee classes have a significantly harder time hitting anything underwater, stomping people is nearly impossible, leaving minutes trying to spam on a downed player, assuming the sharks aren't getting in your way and killing you before you can finish them off. Assuming you can even see where they are with all the sharks obscuring your vision....

[justinco]

Ahh, I forgot, I too shake my fist at thief downed state abilites lol. So annoying..sigh.

[rassier]

you obviously dont know the Cd on thief downed teleport, you can NOT teleport again in the time it takes someone to look for you.

generally tho i think a thief downed state can survive too long.

generally i go down, i start healing and look around, i try to place my teleport (the range is not farther then mesmers btw) and see if i can get down a corner, over a obstacle etc like you said.  time it for just before there stomp.

now, 9 times out of 10 they find me, my next skill to save me is smoke bomb (blind+stealth) to avoid the stomp, the invis lasts very short period of time.  now, if they dont take too long to find me, my teleport will have 2-3 seconds left on Cd by the time they stomp me, problem is sometimes people think they killed me and just had my body dissapear or something,t hey wander off, giving me enough time for another teleport.

i agree its too strong atm, but lets get the facts straight

[Shamadamun]

My frustration is the fact that this game crashes so badly that playing sPvP is a nightmare. Irritates me to no end to not be able to finish matches...

[Eddie Sells Out]

rassier, on 06 September 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

you obviously dont know the Cd on thief downed teleport, you can NOT teleport again in the time it takes someone to look for you.

generally tho i think a thief downed state can survive too long.

generally i go down, i start healing and look around, i try to place my teleport (the range is not farther then mesmers btw) and see if i can get down a corner, over a obstacle etc like you said.  time it for just before there stomp.

now, 9 times out of 10 they find me, my next skill to save me is smoke bomb (blind+stealth) to avoid the stomp, the invis lasts very short period of time.  now, if they dont take too long to find me, my teleport will have 2-3 seconds left on Cd by the time they stomp me, problem is sometimes people think they killed me and just had my body dissapear or something,t hey wander off, giving me enough time for another teleport.

i agree its too strong atm, but lets get the facts straight

You say the cooldown is too long for it to be used before they find you. My own personal experience tells me otherwise, especially if you are in a team fight where you're being crippled etc too, all too frequently by the time I find the theif behind some wall or other obstacle, they are able to teleport away again, repeating the process. Whether or not they use smoke bomb inbetween their teleports does not change that they can repeatedly use teleports/other skills to avoid being stomped. You saying "no the cd is too long for that" does not change the fact that this happens on a regular basis. So sorry for taking my personal experience and frustration with the matter over your statement of the cd being too long for it to happen.

Besides, you even detail yourself the extent to which theives can avoid stomping and prolong the ordeal long enough to rally or get backup.

Edited by Eddie Sells Out, 06 September 2012 - 10:54 PM.

[Sheolkyr]

Downed skills, not the skills as much as the massive imbalance between classes. So theives teleport and stealth, warriors can get up and kill you and mesmers can give you a migraine, meanwhile engineers pull enemies closer just in case they forgot to finish them off.

Sharks on Ruins map. I should've taken a screen of it, went to try capping the ruins and there was just one low life warrior there, easy enough until I noticed my health bar was very low. Turns out with a 27k health pool, the sharks did 21k damage, just swimming from the shore to the ruins.

Auto-balancing, this one just ruins it for me, especially with no leave penalty. If my team is doing extremely well because I've been capping a lot, killing forest creatures/lord etc, even though the actual win bonus is small, I'd still like to see that my efforts were worth more than just personal glory. Going from winning by 300 to losing by 300 because people on the losing team give up before bothering to learn isn't fun, and it certainly isn't fair.

Stealth/vanishing gets a mention, not so much the skills used with proper tactics, but just for coward theives who use it to run away from any fight where they can't faceroll their way to victory.

[justinco]

Yes sharks too are annoying.

I forgot to mention the lack of group join in WvW and sPvP too. Hard to get even a small group together. Really can't believe this feature is not in.

[rassier]

Eddie Sells Out, on 06 September 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

You say the cooldown is too long for it to be used before they find you. My own personal experience tells me otherwise, especially if you are in a team fight where you're being crippled etc too, all too frequently by the time I find the theif behind some wall or other obstacle, they are able to teleport away again, repeating the process. Whether or not they use smoke bomb inbetween their teleports does not change that they can repeatedly use teleports/other skills to avoid being stomped. You saying "no the cd is too long for that" does not change the fact that this happens on a regular basis. So sorry for taking my personal experience and frustration with the matter over your statement of the cd being too long for it to happen.

Besides, you even detail yourself the extent to which theives can avoid stomping and prolong the ordeal long enough to rally or get backup.

dude, i SAID thieves can avoid being stomped too long, i agree.  what i disagreed with is your take on how they do it.  cuz its wrong.

shadow escape, thats the teleport, is a 15 second cd, so what yoru saying, in a game this fast paced, after the first teleport, it takes you THAT long to find him? in that case the thief outplayed you.

smokebomb is 20 second CD

those are the only two skills we can use to avoid a stomp

justinco, on 07 September 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

Yes sharks too are annoying.

I forgot to mention the lack of group join in WvW and sPvP too. Hard to get even a small group together. Really can't believe this feature is not in.

imo if they want group spvp it should be seperate from the solo que, i dont want to go back to the "go premade or go home" type of thing again >.<

[Takato]

Man, mot of these complaints make me want to complain about them.

"I can't distinguish the fake mesmers from the real ones /qq"

If you want a legit complaint, try "lack of way to save builds".
This single handedly makes me not want to sPvP.
I want to work and rework builds and save the ones I like and stand out, not only can I not do that, changing from one build to another is stupidly tedious with all the runes/sigil/traits that I need to swap around.

[justinco]

rassier, on 07 September 2012 - 01:08 AM, said:

imo if they want group spvp it should be seperate from the solo que, i dont want to go back to the "go premade or go home" type of thing again >.<

I agree now that you mention that, maybe just group join for WvW then.

Builds for spvp are also a pain, I try having multiple sets of armor but that takes up lots of bag space.

[Taggy ol Sitties]

Actually it's pretty easy to spot the real mesmer, just have to play a while to get used to it. You'll notice certain things that only real players would do instead of NPCs just standing still. You could also mark the real mesmer early if you really can't spot him.

[Zinn]

I hate the imbalanced down state.  I don't mind the down state itself, just how imbalanced it is.

Speaking of downed state, I hate the camera gets locked on small characters on even the slightest of incline.

I hate the 5 minutes you have to wait at the start of a tournament, make it shorter or force people to be ready.

I hate auto balance.  You just captured a point?  Good for you, teamswitch.

[OnionSoup]

[sarcasm] The most annoying thing I believe is the fact that people can dodge my attacks. All I want to do is stand there and slice them up but then they can dodge away. No other game I've played has this feature and I believe it's stupid and imbalanced.[/sarcasm]

[justinco]

Taggy ol Sitties, on 07 September 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

Actually it's pretty easy to spot the real mesmer, just have to play a while to get used to it. You'll notice certain things that only real players would do instead of NPCs just standing still. You could also mark the real mesmer early if you really can't spot him.

Thanks for the info, it is getting easier. One of the ways I have been identifying them is if they dodge or not, also getting used to the AI behavior. I do mark the targets as quick as I can but the target drops as soon as they stealth :/

[Sinte]

I don't get why people even try to stomp classes that have two stomp cancels. Unless you hit like an absolute wet noodle, just kill them. No need for stomping. Especially in a team fight.

[Skolops]

Honestly, it's just all far, far too much of a zerg, gank, absurdly low time-to-kill experience in every game, whether I'm on the zerging side or the zerged side, and it's just not fun.  This is true in pick-up 8v8 and in the 5v5 tournaments.

I think some of the ideas ANet had for their sPvP are good, but in practice they just don't work.  Now here is what is fun: one on ones.  They seem to be balanced fairly well.  Anything beyond that is just too zergy with far, far too short a time to kill.  Playing TOR and spending a lot of time on their forums, the biggest complaint by FAR about it's PvP was the CC in the game and the time-to-kill being too low, but TOR doesn't have anything on GW2 where these are concerned.  

Even with max toughness, HP, and speccing into defense and stun breaks, my Ranger still drops virtually instantly against anything more than one player.  Keep in mind that this is coming from a guy who played supposedly squishy DPS classes in other games and could nevertheless last a very long time in 2 and 3 v 1s.  

To me, PART of the problem is a lack of dedicated healers, though its not the whole problem.  Experiences from other games that felt the most like what happens in GW2 were those matches where no healers were in the group and it came down to everyone dying relatively fast.  This is compared to those matches with healers where the battles lasted some meaningful amount of time and tended to be more fun.  Even so, folks still didn't die as fast without heals as they do in GW2 with everyone having his own heal.

As it is the best team composition is a bunch of glass cannons who can gank the enemy one at a time and wipe the whole squad in a few seconds.  The only exception to this is the guardian, which perhaps goes too far the other way.

[DJSkittles1]

My Elementalist...

I never should have tried a thief, I thought I was just bad and everyone was having as much trouble as me in pvp. Boy was I wrong, I wish I had never touched another class, now I don't think I can ever justifiably go back to my ele.

[Dariroch7326]

I have to say Auto balance is probably my biggest complaint so far.   When your team is ahead 350 to 100 then you get switched its like well that was a waste.

There has to be either a substantial reward for switching, and or a penalty for leaving a match.

Ie - 50% glory for the next match for the leaver.  +50% more Glory for the switcher.


I would have to say other than than Warrior Burst dps is pretty over the top.  But I think I just need to play better. :-P

[Veldan]

rassier, on 06 September 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

oh heaven forbid that the entire game isnt people standing still and trading hits like hockey players

Cuz teleporting / stealthing is the only way to move? Please think before you post... there's enough games out there that made nice PvP without in combat stealth and as far as I know clones have never been put in a game before.

[rassier]

Veldan, on 07 September 2012 - 07:22 AM, said:

Cuz teleporting / stealthing is the only way to move? Please think before you post... there's enough games out there that made nice PvP without in combat stealth and as far as I know clones have never been put in a game before.

so your complaining that its not simpler?  just cuz you have a hard time dealing with something doesnt mean its not a interesting and/or original mechanic.

from your PoV as you have illistrated in this thread, if it gives you problems, it shouldnt be in the game.  its a selfish and unbalanced way to look at it.

but ill amend my post,

oh heaven forbid that the entire game isnt people running around in circles trading hits.

[Veldan]

rassier, on 07 September 2012 - 07:32 AM, said:

from your PoV as you have illistrated in this thread, if it gives you problems, it shouldnt be in the game.  its a selfish and unbalanced way to look at it.

1. I never said it shouldn't be in the game
2. I can't say if something is fun for the whole community, so I have to go by what is fun to me. If something really isn't fun, I may make a forum post about it. If this is "selfish and unbalanced", please enlighten me because I fail to see how.

[kidawk]

I think the issue with stealth is not just a matter of chain stealthing but rather an issue with revealed players showing up in a timely fashion.

Basically, when enemies stealth, it often feels like their stealth lasts for 5-6 seconds instead of the 3-4 seconds it should be in the first place.

I don't know if this is a game engine issue. A graphics rendering issue on either end but stealth that states 3~ seconds lasts a little longer than that. I don't know how long the revealed debuff lasts for but maybe that should be looked into as well? Perhaps it is fine?

Other than that, wish the queues were better. They increased server capacity but did they increase WvWvW server side(3 realm) capacity for each map in WvWvW?

[Eddie Sells Out]

Takato, on 07 September 2012 - 01:10 AM, said:

If you want a legit complaint, try "lack of way to save builds".
This single handedly makes me not want to sPvP.
I want to work and rework builds and save the ones I like and stand out, not only can I not do that, changing from one build to another is stupidly tedious with all the runes/sigil/traits that I need to swap around.

Yeah, this really needs to be introduced as well.

[Greywolf the Hungry]

-No saved builds/gear loadouts

-No abilties to detect stealth(I'm sorry AoE's just don't work unless you're an Ele)  At least give me the option to slot a utility to battle a class, I'll make the tough choice on what to drop

-5 min wait on tourney should be like 2 min max.

-Raid on the Capricorn, burn this map with fire.  Seriously please, give me a server with it removed from it's rotation

-Lack of a customizable UI(if we can please show me where).  Tired of having my enemies info bar up top when I am definitly NOT looking at the top of my screen when fighting.

-Related to above: Cast bars.  Please good grief give me cast bars.

-Login character select has no option to show my characters in their PvP gear, I don't want to keep looking at my scrubby level 11 warrior when he's in Pit Fighter armor.

That's all I can think of for now.

Edited by Greywolf the Hungry, 07 September 2012 - 07:34 PM.

[Elk]

justinco, on 06 September 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

So, what has been frustrating or annoying to you after being in WvW/sPvP for the last week (or two)? What would you like to see fixed or what do you need to learn about to become better?

Here is my list, open to input on how to counter or become better against a class/tactic:

- Clones/duplicates/illusions: I am still having a hard time with Mesmer illusions/clones and the Thief thieves guild (TG not so bad as they just show up as "Thief"). Any tricks to finding the "real" target for Mesmers and avoiding the thief guild when they pop it?

- Stealth/vanishing/teleporting: This is most annoying in WvW and probably what frustrates me the most. I've seen classes vanish and teleport halfway across my clip range (running away from a fight) and thieves/mesmers stealthing multiple times during a fight. Any way to prevent or break stealth/vanish or close gaps from runners? Swiftness and cripples rarely keep runners close enough.

I totes agree! maybe I'm just a bad player, but when mesmers get an extra 2/3 minions that do considerable auto attack damage, as a warrior I kind of just die. I think it's illusions that aren't as bad, they have significantly less health (last time I encountered them), so they disappear quickly. but clones are very annoying - they have seemingly normal amounts of health and still manage to do a good bit of damage.
it's all good saying "just kill the mesmer", but the clones make it harder to find the mesmer in chaotic battles with explosions everywhere, while you have to keep moving. even if you can find the mesmer, that's killing another player who can still deal signifciant damage, whilst his/her 3 minions also knock down your HP. I thought they were going to be used as defence tactics, or CC, but clones seem to be more offensive than turrets/spirit weapons/ minions.

the stealth thing is just annoying, the thief will stealth away and I usually kill htem anyway, but it just makes the battle take longer as they stealth away, heal up, then come back. It's pretty hard to break

Greywolf the Hungry, on 07 September 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

-No abilties to detect stealth(I'm sorry AoE's just don't work unless you're an Ele)  At least give me the option to slot a utility to battle a class, I'll make the tough choice on what to drop

-Raid on the Capricorn, burn this map with fire.  Seriously please, give me a server with it removed from it's rotation

the stealth without using up good skills.
YES! I EHAT that map with a burning passion. defensive capabilities are kind of lacking underwater (as well as most skills being grayed out as well), so the sharks just make that capture point really awkward. it's very much possible to aggro all the sharks and cap the shrine, but if there's a player it becomes a bit too hard, and encourages zergs. I also ehat the idea of people holding the shrine having the advantage, it takes away the "level playing field" concept.

[BabyChooChoo]

Almost everything.

Far too often do I end up in games where people don't do anything. No, I don't mean the people running  around ganking everything in sight. I mean the people who can't kill anything AND refuse to cap a point. Far too often, I end up joining games where the score is something stupid like 359 - 112 and it leaves me wondering what the heck anyone on my team was doing before I joined.

Then you have people watching you 1v1 or 1v2 or more and waltz on by like nothing happened. Today, i literally had someone watch me try to 1v3 in our base for about 10-15 seconds and then just walk past. I was 1 step away from blowing up at the guy, but I decided it would be better if I just left.

Speaking of which, there's no penalty for leaving.

I don't even want to get into the whole downed state and invisibility/illusions nonsense. It'd just be redundant at this point. Regardless, all of that needs a serious overhaul.

A way to save builds would be nice. I've pretty much stopped changing my build between games because it's just a headache.

And lastly, nothing about sPvP encourages teamwork and/or actually completing objectives. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of people who play 'the way it was intended,' but there's far too many zergs and other frustrating aspects that make playing 'right' look like you're playing 'wrong.'