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Mesmer is really screwed in Dynamic Events

dynamic events aoe

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#31 timmyf

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 05:18 PM

View PostMick, on 07 September 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

It's not really an issue of getting gold. It's an issue of not getting as much XP/loot from all of the involved enemies in the event because the system rewards tagging as many mobs as possible over total contribution.

I repeat, it's not an issue of getting gold medals.

Gold medals. Not an issue.

Oh, yeah, I see you said that. My mistake.

I'd be curious to see what the loot attainment rates are for different classes. I'm not sure there's any way to measure it fairly, but it's an interesting question.

#32 Dastion

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 05:54 PM

View PostMindProd, on 07 September 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:


I never found this reliable since it can just as easily waste a bounce on a friendly instead.

I know the wiki on Bounce says that bounce skills have a separate counter for friend and for foe, but my testing at dummies says otherwise (at least for bot Winds of Chaos and Mirror Blade).

I think there was a point in beta when this was the case, but casual observation since launch seems to have them counted the same.

#33 Lemuux

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 06:29 PM

is not only that...i been trying to farm AC explorable, and its imposible to do unless you bring at least 2 elementalists and other aoe classes.

Last night we tried option 1 (defend the guy from all the mounds that spawn),

while the elementalist, the guardian and the warrior in the group could solo a mound in less than 5 secs, i couldnt even get it to half hp in 10, and i was the best geared of all (exotic) no, i wasnt doing anything wrong, phantasm, shatters, everything, and yet it was pointless

imo, mesmers are great for pvp and support in pve, but we SUCK baaad at dps checks (which is pretty much 80% of the dungeons in explore)

edit: oh yeah, was using S/P // staff    and runnign a power/crit build

Edited by Lemuux, 07 September 2012 - 06:30 PM.


#34 EasymodeX

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 06:43 PM

Quote

while the elementalist, the guardian and the warrior in the group could solo a mound in less than 5 secs, i couldnt even get it to half hp in 10, and i was the best geared of all (exotic) no, i wasnt doing anything wrong, phantasm, shatters, everything, and yet it was pointless

MB iB iW iL BF MB in a full power build?

#35 Carighan

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 07:51 PM

View PostMindProd, on 07 September 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

I never found this reliable since it can just as easily waste a bounce on a friendly instead.

"waste"

Something is very wrong attitude-wise. :P

#36 MindProd

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 08:59 AM

View PostCarighan, on 07 September 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

"waste"

Something is very wrong attitude-wise. :P
If it were in a dungeon group, I'd be all over spreading boons over doing inconsequential damage with Winds of Chaos. But in a zerg DE with 50 other people, it really doesn't help anyone that one random person gets a short might/fury boon. Supporting hardly matters in DEs. Just do as much damage as you can, and keep everyone else alive (by reviving people).

#37 Carighan

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 10:34 AM

View PostMindProd, on 09 September 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

If it were in a dungeon group, I'd be all over spreading boons over doing inconsequential damage with Winds of Chaos. But in a zerg DE with 50 other people, it really doesn't help anyone that one random person gets a short might/fury boon. Supporting hardly matters in DEs. Just do as much damage as you can, and keep everyone else alive (by reviving people).

Giving someone else Might or Fury is causing damage.
The issue with this is entirely in that DEs only count damage for ranking. :s

#38 Miku Flarestorm

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 12:13 PM

You all talk about elementalists being AoE gods, but you should check necromancers, they tag the whole event with one skill (*cough* Epidemic). I wish I rerolled necromancer instead of my mesmer sometimes.

#39 Melizande

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:53 AM

View PostSkyro, on 06 September 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

-30 Illusion for IP and Illusionary Elasticity
-20 Power for GS cooldown reduction trait
-20 Precision for Deceptive Evasion or 20 Chaos for staff cooldown reduction trait
-Staff as your weapon swap
-Put Mirror Images as one of your utility skills
-Spam Mirror Blade and shatter skills like a pro
-Thank me later

So I am assuming this could be a completed build using the above: http://gw2skills.net...29dkU0apWJF42FC

Technically in Illusions you could alternate Precise Wrack with Master of Misdirection or even Compounding Power.

#40 Skyro

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 03:40 PM

View PostMelizande, on 10 September 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

So I am assuming this could be a completed build using the above: http://gw2skills.net...29dkU0apWJF42FC

Technically in Illusions you could alternate Precise Wrack with Master of Misdirection or even Compounding Power.

Precise Wrack is pure garbage since Compounding Power's damage buff actually effects the damage of Mind Wrack, making it better in nearly any scenario. Master of Misdirection isn't worth it either unless you're running a pure confusion build with scepter.

#41 Melizande

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:08 PM

View PostSkyro, on 10 September 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

Precise Wrack is pure garbage since Compounding Power's damage buff actually effects the damage of Mind Wrack, making it better in nearly any scenario. Master of Misdirection isn't worth it either unless you're running a pure confusion build with scepter.
Compounding Power it is then. Do those seem to be reasonable utility abilities for it? If you don't mind. :)

#42 Jobuu

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:17 PM

Since the scepter is kind meh, i wish they would a few bounces to the number 3 skill. It would look like a purple chain heal from a WOW shaman but for offense of course :)

Edited by Jobuu, 10 September 2012 - 05:22 PM.


#43 Skyro

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:41 PM

View PostMelizande, on 10 September 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

Compounding Power it is then. Do those seem to be reasonable utility abilities for it? If you don't mind. :)

We're getting very OT here. It depends what you're trying to do. If you're talking about just tagging mobs for loot in DEs like the OP asks for then replace feedback with decoy and you're good to go. Feedback is more a dungeon/WvW skill.

#44 Pysgasm

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 03:36 PM

It's absolutely rediculous trying to farm mob waves at DE's in Orr. I've tried quite a few weapon/trait combinations to get the optimal damage. The waves are predictable to the second and I can throw down my AoE fields/iBeserker + mirror blade then jump instantly into the fray with blurred frenzy & sword 1 spam. Even though I'm tagging all the mobs and doing great damage I'll be lucky to get 1 or 2 drops. Meanwhile all the warriors in my guild are "harhar lol look at me spinning weeeeeee" and filling all their 12-18 slot bags every 2 waves.

Edited by Pysgasm, 11 September 2012 - 03:37 PM.


#45 Jobuu

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 04:44 PM

damn that sucks - you should bug report that - maybe they'll listen. i'm glad im only 15 lol - i got a bunch of alts

#46 CepaCepa

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 07:13 PM

Simply from how many things drop, I find it most effectively to dodge into the mobs, mirror image, shatter, followed by frenzy. And then slash away in the middle of those mobs. If you're downed, you'll instantly rally, and keep on doing it.

There IS a risk of dying, and then people being not nice/in a hurry/lost in the crowd and not rezzing you, but... Hey, at least you can get more loots that hopefully cancel out the repair bill, and more. :)

Or you can just use a greatsword and hope for your iBerserker target to live longer than a second (and if you target the veteran/champion, well, it won't die that fast, but your chance of aoe damage to the other mobs just dropped significantly). Sometimes it works.

PS: I've got an elementalist and it's really not THAT easy to tag things. Problem is, things die too fast, that 1 second cast time that plagues most of the elementalist's skills is really visible. Plus, it's not like elementalists can switch weapon, and bleed/burns just don't tick enough before the mobs die (sometimes they do, which would be great, but a lot of other times direct damage is way more efficient). This means that if you just want to run events as an elementalist, you use a staff and stick to fire/air/arcane. And that makes you utterly miserable when you find yourself not in the presence of the zerging group and alone with a bunch of staring undead.

Guardians and warriors, by far, are more efficient, and there's just not much that can be done without overhauling their mechanism. My guardian gets drops from almost every single mob spamming 3 on Greatsword. I'm sure warriors do it even better.

#47 Pysgasm

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 07:59 PM

The DE's I'm attempting to farm, all the mobs spawn pretty much crammed on top of eachother. EVERY time I send my iBerserker into their midst big numbers go flying. It is immediately followed by BM weapon switch BF, Sword 1 spam. I'm doing as much damage as mesmerly possible. I'm going to switch it up with another trait setup tonight going 30 dom/30 duel and seeing if I can get any more damage out of my 1h abilities since BF and Sword 1 seem to be the biggest contributing factors. I feel honestly like my illusions contribute nothing to the loot factor and I'm better off spamming those two abilities. Simply sitting there and tagging the mobs once or twice though generally gaurantees me getting zero loot.

#48 letardian

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:45 PM

View PostCepaCepa, on 11 September 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

Simply from how many things drop, I find it most effectively to dodge into the mobs, mirror image, shatter, followed by frenzy. And then slash away in the middle of those mobs. If you're downed, you'll instantly rally, and keep on doing it.

There IS a risk of dying, and then people being not nice/in a hurry/lost in the crowd and not rezzing you, but... Hey, at least you can get more loots that hopefully cancel out the repair bill, and more. :)

Or you can just use a greatsword and hope for your iBerserker target to live longer than a second (and if you target the veteran/champion, well, it won't die that fast, but your chance of aoe damage to the other mobs just dropped significantly). Sometimes it works.

PS: I've got an elementalist and it's really not THAT easy to tag things. Problem is, things die too fast, that 1 second cast time that plagues most of the elementalist's skills is really visible. Plus, it's not like elementalists can switch weapon, and bleed/burns just don't tick enough before the mobs die (sometimes they do, which would be great, but a lot of other times direct damage is way more efficient). This means that if you just want to run events as an elementalist, you use a staff and stick to fire/air/arcane. And that makes you utterly miserable when you find yourself not in the presence of the zerging group and alone with a bunch of staring undead.

Guardians and warriors, by far, are more efficient, and there's just not much that can be done without overhauling their mechanism. My guardian gets drops from almost every single mob spamming 3 on Greatsword. I'm sure warriors do it even better.

Agreed completely. My guardian is only 50 but can easily fill his bags at the various Centaur events in Harathi. Bit disheartening to be honest. A friend of mine is playing necromancer and asked how he fared in the mass spawn events he answered with a simple 'fine'.

#49 Pysgasm

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 01:15 PM

So I switched it up last night with my trait setup and had marginally better results with the mob waves which resulted in a substantially larger amount of loot.

build link

This is a pure glass cannon build with very low survivability. I truely believe in the DE's with multiple people trying to pummel mobs, that illusions do not contribute to your loot score. So I utilized this build to focus on the making my 1h sword skills hit the hardest possible. Just gotta make sure all your mantras are prepped before combat. If you teleport hop they'll wipe. Rotation is generally Mirror Blade, swap, Blurred Frenzy, Sword 1, and occasionally Magic Bullet when you can fit it in.

You can probably saccrifice one mantra and put mirror images in, to generate two clones for an additional 6% damage rather than the 4% from the missing mantra but consider that those clones wont be up long and the 4% is sustained as long as your mantra is up, its probably better.

Edited by Pysgasm, 12 September 2012 - 01:19 PM.


#50 CepaCepa

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 04:52 PM

View PostPysgasm, on 12 September 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

So I switched it up last night with my trait setup and had marginally better results with the mob waves which resulted in a substantially larger amount of loot.

build link

This is a pure glass cannon build with very low survivability. I truely believe in the DE's with multiple people trying to pummel mobs, that illusions do not contribute to your loot score. So I utilized this build to focus on the making my 1h sword skills hit the hardest possible. Just gotta make sure all your mantras are prepped before combat. If you teleport hop they'll wipe. Rotation is generally Mirror Blade, swap, Blurred Frenzy, Sword 1, and occasionally Magic Bullet when you can fit it in.

You can probably saccrifice one mantra and put mirror images in, to generate two clones for an additional 6% damage rather than the 4% from the missing mantra but consider that those clones wont be up long and the 4% is sustained as long as your mantra is up, its probably better.

If you're already going in with sword though (I do the same), your illusions will spawn right next to your target whether if you dodge/sword 3/sword 5/torch 5/decoy/mirror image. A mind wrack immediately following 3 illusions means a guaranteed big hit on your intended target/targets, and these are the same targets that you'd be hitting already with frenzy. I do agree that phantasm's are not that useful at this point, but mind wrack can hit BIG... Each hitting close to your frenzy numbers, 3 of them hitting means you just increased your damage output to that group of mobs by 200-300%. And immediately following that, it's very easy to instantly get 3 clones up and waiting (your frenzy crits easily tops off your endurance allowing you to dodge again), maximizing clone uptime if you have related traits.

Maybe I should test out the mantra build to see how that fairs against mind wrack, but my initial impression is that mantras still don't add that much aoe, it's just burst single target damage perhaps...

#51 Skyro

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 05:20 PM

View PostCepaCepa, on 14 September 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

If you're already going in with sword though (I do the same), your illusions will spawn right next to your target whether if you dodge/sword 3/sword 5/torch 5/decoy/mirror image. A mind wrack immediately following 3 illusions means a guaranteed big hit on your intended target/targets, and these are the same targets that you'd be hitting already with frenzy. I do agree that phantasm's are not that useful at this point, but mind wrack can hit BIG... Each hitting close to your frenzy numbers, 3 of them hitting means you just increased your damage output to that group of mobs by 200-300%. And immediately following that, it's very easy to instantly get 3 clones up and waiting (your frenzy crits easily tops off your endurance allowing you to dodge again), maximizing clone uptime if you have related traits.

Maybe I should test out the mantra build to see how that fairs against mind wrack, but my initial impression is that mantras still don't add that much aoe, it's just burst single target damage perhaps...

iBerserker can work at times due to its near instant attack after spawning and the fact that it's AoE. Obviously this depends on the DE and the amount of people farming it.

#52 Pysgasm

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 06:38 PM

This build was just based around farming loot off mob waves. When I first started farming this spot I tried the staff first for Chao Storm. It'd didn't really put out enough dps and of 10+ mobs I'd maybe get two drops. So I switched it up to GS and started using iBerserker as an opener. Trust me this spot is very predictable and the waves are so condensed that iBeserker almost always makes a solid passthrough putting up big numbers. Results were pretty much the same in the loot department. Then I tried with my sword alone, sitting there opening with 2 then spamming 1, and to my surprise almost every mob in the wave drops loot.

I've tried it at several different time intervals and zone sessions so I'm 99% positive that it wasn't diminishing returns screwing with my numbers. The name of the game here is AoEs and tagging as many mobs as possible (hopefully before the rest of the zerg) for as much as possible. The mantras are soley for the %16 damage boost to my money maker, the 1h sword.

#53 MindProd

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 06:17 AM

It really depends on the DE mob you're trying to farm. Most reliable combo I've had is with Sword+Focus/Greatsword. Sword is really our best bet with AoE if we manage to get into melee range. The problem is getting there which is mostly why I carry my focus for swiftness (and into the void pulling mobs closer to me). If I'm really lucky and I see the spawn ahead of the zerging group (mostly because there are multiple spawns from different sides at once), I might get to cast iWarden and even half a rotation of it can tag me that mob.

But for all purpose AoE tagging, greatsword works well. iBerserker can nicely tag a huge mob since it attacks almost instantly upon summon. #3 and #5 by themselves don't do enough damage to count as a tag, so I try to chain them together when possible. #2 is my go to skill for killing those stragglers that were left behind.

And then there's Feedback. Not an all purpose AoE skill, but there are events in Orr where a group of casters all spawn together and will almost instantly start shooting bolts upon spawning. Particularly in the repairing the helicopter event in Straits of Devastation, my Feedback reliably tags entire spawns whenever it's available.

#54 Tevesh

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:38 AM

Quote

While this might solve the problem, it does actual show that OP has a point, because isn't it a flaw that you actual have to pick certain utillities to cover this particular problem?

Hey its a flaw that in order to do aoe damage and tag multiple mobs you have to pick aoe skills! Dont be ridiculous.

#55 Bottoms_Up

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:05 PM

View PostPysgasm, on 14 September 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

Then I tried with my sword alone, sitting there opening with 2 then spamming 1, and to my surprise almost every mob in the wave drops loot.

So just to check, damage from mesmer illusions do count as our damage right? I mean, has anyone actually checked that we get credit for the damage they do? Bugs do happen.

#56 kirinichibon

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:39 PM

View PostBottoms_Up, on 17 September 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

So just to check, damage from mesmer illusions do count as our damage right? I mean, has anyone actually checked that we get credit for the damage they do? Bugs do happen.

I have a feeling that illusions do not count toward a mesmer's contribution unless direct damage was also applied. I have no proof of this, but it does seem that, despite berserker and warden doing big aoe damage, I'll often only get drops from the 3-4 mobs that mirror blade or auto attack would hit.

#57 MindProd

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:30 PM

I can confirm that I have gotten loot from iBerserker attacks. I mean, how else do I get to loot multiple corpses from a wave, while using a GS, without pressing #2, #3, or #5?

And remember that while loot doesn't always drop, exp always does. So that's an easier way to check if you're tagging properly.  (assuming it's the type of monster that gives /loot in the first place. Some event monsters really don't give anything)

Edited by MindProd, 17 September 2012 - 07:31 PM.


#58 Lastchime

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:04 PM

Be nice to have a buff that increases the drop of loot at all ;)

#59 turbo234

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:08 PM

View PostSpura, on 06 September 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

This segment can be also be titled:
how to tag maximum number of mobs but not actually contribute anything
or
play a dynamic even spec that is 100% useless outside dynamic events

You must not play in gigantic DEs enough to know, the second anything besides a veteran or champion comes into sight they get annihilated. The only way to get credit is to land a couple hits, otherwise you're out of luck.

#60 Brazen_NL

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 04:53 PM

Was about to say, not like DEs need like a huge amount of planning or team play. Stuff dies anyway since it's usually a zerg.





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