638 replies to this topic

[Ritualist]

I keep being reminded how much I hate levelling in GW2.
The game is massive and should be more than sufficient for our levelling needs, but A.Net ended up distributing the levelling process insanely poorly throughout the zones, making the whole thing feel like a chore.
The players start in lvl 1-15 zones. The problem is the zone of choice does not give you sufficient xp, the zone is simply too small for the xp you should have gained and the foes grow faster in level than the player. So the best way to play a zone, is to complete about half a starter zone, then move to a secondary starter zone, finish that one in full and then return to the first starter zone and finish it, before moving to a 15+ zone.

The game would benefit greatly by changing the starter zones from having 5 1-15 zones into having 2 1-5 zones and 3 5-15 zones. This would allow for a much more gradual progression in a zone and it would remove the need to complete a zone in full before you are even allowed to move on.

Edited by Protoss, 24 January 2013 - 02:45 PM.

[Fenice_86]

Protoss, on 24 January 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

I keep being reminded how much I hate levelling in GW2.
The game is massive and should be more than sufficient for our levelling needs, but A.Net ended up distributing the levelling process insanely poorly throughout the zones, so the whole thing feels like a chore.
The players start in lvl 1-15 zones. The problem is the zone of choice does not give you sufficient xp, the zone is simply too small for the xp you should have gained and the foes grow faster in level than the player. So the best way to play a zone, is to complete about half a starter zone, then move to a secondary starter zone, finish that one in full and then return to the first starter zone and finish it, before moving to a 15+ zone.

The game would benefit greatly by changing the starter zones from having 5 1-15 zones into having 2 1-5 zones and 3 5-15 zones. This would allow for a much more gradual progression in a zone and it would remove the need to complete a zone in full before you are even allowed to move on.

Or simply increase exp % by 10-20% ? Afterall they claim GW2 has nothing to share with grindy games so...

[raspberry jam]

Gilles VI, on 21 January 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

You can QQ all you want, the fact remains GW1 PvP suffered immensely because of the system.

No I agree with Daesu. The GW1 skill system was what made GW1 PvP fun to begin with.

[Kratimas]

I loved GW1 and I love playing GW2.

To me they are both different games and I came into GW2 knowing that. I was very glad that GW2 wasn't just GW1 on steriods.

I like the new ideas and I can not be more happy with the Holy Trinity being gone forever.

I think they did a fantastic job on this game so far and I think there is a ton of potential for this game in the future.

I can't wait to see the Jan/Feb/March updates to see what is next.

[Gileas898]

Fenice_86, on 24 January 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

Or simply increase exp % by 10-20% ? Afterall they claim GW2 has nothing to share with grindy games so...

Actually this is one of my biggest problems with GW2. Leveling to max level takes even longer than in WoW, and while they claim that the entire game is the end-game, that is obviously not true whatsoever.

With story line being completely shit and zones feeling like a chore after the N'th time, I resorted to level half of my characters through crafting and mooching dungeon XP.

[Gilles VI]

raspberry jam, on 24 January 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

No I agree with Daesu. The GW1 skill system was what made GW1 PvP fun to begin with.

Fun =/= balanced, I loved building my own bars, but you just have to agree PvP became very stale of it..

It was very boring to see every top GvG match lasting 25 minutes without any kill or maybe 1-2 and then NPC's started rushing and only then the game really began..

It allowed for lots of combinations 99% of the people wouldn't think of, and it allowed for a very high skill ceilling, but I think the PvP in GW2, build wise, is better.

Gileas898, on 24 January 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Actually this is one of my biggest problems with GW2. Leveling to max level takes even longer than in WoW, and while they claim that the entire game is the end-game, that is obviously not true whatsoever.

With story line being completely shit and zones feeling like a chore after the N'th time, I resorted to level half of my characters through crafting and mooching dungeon XP.

What?
Levelling in GW2 longer than in WoW??

Edited by Gilles VI, 24 January 2013 - 01:51 PM.

[Ritualist]

Fenice_86, on 24 January 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

Or simply increase exp % by 10-20% ? Afterall they claim GW2 has nothing to share with grindy games so...

The biggest difference by changing how the content progresses would be in how much content players need to complete. GW1 was amazing because the game had tons of connected content that was level appropriate. In GW2, the level appropriate content isn't connected. It's spread out among multiple zones, which means that players need to complete the small section of content, that one finds in every zone, in full.
To get to lvl 25, a player now needs to complete 3-4 zones in full. What I would rather see is making the players visit some 8 zones, that don't need to be completed in full instead. They could be completed in full, and the player would thus advance faster (which is irrelevant due to down-scaling), but as a general rule, the game would play much more in the lines of GW1, where you'd go through more areas to finish the game, but each of them needed to be just partly completed.

I really hate how GW2 is full of paths that end up being wrong turns - you go left instead of right and you die at the first foe because you are not of high enough level to take on that foe. And if content progressed slower in each area, there would be no reason to have that foe in that location.

[Gileas898]

Gilles VI, on 24 January 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

What?
Levelling in GW2 longer than in WoW??

Absolutely. On my first character it took me 100 hours to get to 80, which is fairly normal (I was second person in my guild, 1 week after release). This is much slower than WoW.

[Eon Lilu]

GW1 has better story, lore and immersion, dungeons, missions more diversity in skills and your character's role in the world.

GW2 is better at everything else except for the above.

[raspberry jam]

Gilles VI, on 24 January 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

Fun =/= balanced, I loved building my own bars, but you just have to agree PvP became very stale of it..

It was very boring to see every top GvG match lasting 25 minutes without any kill or maybe 1-2 and then NPC's started rushing and only then the game really began..

It allowed for lots of combinations 99% of the people wouldn't think of, and it allowed for a very high skill ceilling, but I think the PvP in GW2, build wise, is better.

But PvP in GW2 is already stale lol... Also while GvG was all cozy and stuff, I preferred HA.

[cyclopsje]

Gileas898, on 24 January 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Actually this is one of my biggest problems with GW2. Leveling to max level takes even longer than in WoW, and while they claim that the entire game is the end-game, that is obviously not true whatsoever.

With story line being completely shit and zones feeling like a chore after the N'th time, I resorted to level half of my characters through crafting and mooching dungeon XP.

Leveling takes longer then WoW really. What the hell do you do to level only chop trees in starter zone.

[ShezuTsukai]

For all of you that say leveling is slow I wonder what you are doing? I leveled by playing story line, clearing starter city and zone (map completion), doing dailies and monthlies, crafting level appropriately 2 disciplines, and doing every possible DE I came across.

I guess you could say I just played the game same as GW1 and I reached max level/end game (area) faster in GW2.

For me the biggest difference is I actually get to play with others instead of spamming for group 10 min then giving up and H/H the thing.

[Di-Dorval]

ShezuTsukai, on 24 January 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

For all of you that say leveling is slow I wonder what you are doing? I leveled by playing story line, clearing starter city and zone (map completion), doing dailies and monthlies, crafting level appropriately 2 disciplines, and doing every possible DE I came across.

I guess you could say I just played the game same as GW1 and I reached max level/end game (area) faster in GW2.

For me the biggest difference is I actually get to play with others instead of spamming for group 10 min then giving up and H/H the thing.

Clearing maps and worrying about dailies isn't playing like GW1. In GW1 you just had to follow the story.

[Fenice_86]

ShezuTsukai, on 24 January 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

For me the biggest difference is I actually get to play with others instead of spamming for group 10 min then giving up and H/H the thing.

Maybe Fort Aspenwood has good population... i feel like i play in single player

/Whiteside Ridge player

[Gilles VI]

raspberry jam, on 24 January 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

But PvP in GW2 is already stale lol... Also while GvG was all cozy and stuff, I preferred HA.

I don't find that, when I go for tournys we still have alot of options what we will run.
While in GW1 pretty much 50% of the team if not more had same builds for over 3-4 years now..

Gileas898, on 24 January 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

Absolutely. On my first character it took me 100 hours to get to 80, which is fairly normal (I was second person in my guild, 1 week after release). This is much slower than WoW.

You must have played on a private server then, or they made it easier again!

[Arquenya]

Fenice_86, on 23 January 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

There will be a reason if many of us had 8-10+ chars max'd in GW1 with each story campaign completed and here struggle to choose a class for an ALT and feel the boredom of going through the story even before making said char...

Yea 80 levels is really wayyy to long for a second time. After one character I've seen most of it, it's not that other areas are so different and surprising in any other aspect than scenery. I'm trying to level a necro at the moment but I really can't bring myself to do it anymore. 30 or 40 levels would have been more than enough in my opinion. In GW I could level a character to 20 in a weekend, which was far more fun.

[The_Blades]

Another thing that is getting to my nervs (not really, just a bit of a disapointment). Armor matching sucks, not because of the art, but because you ahve to transmute everything and lose 1 piece of equipment that could fit another set, just because the stats are fixed. so much for cosmetic only. (ofcourse this is not an issue in pvp)

[shiggidyshwa]

Protoss, on 24 January 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

The biggest difference by changing how the content progresses would be in how much content players need to complete. GW1 was amazing because the game had tons of connected content that was level appropriate. In GW2, the level appropriate content isn't connected. It's spread out among multiple zones, which means that players need to complete the small section of content, that one finds in every zone, in full.
To get to lvl 25, a player now needs to complete 3-4 zones in full. What I would rather see is making the players visit some 8 zones, that don't need to be completed in full instead. They could be completed in full, and the player would thus advance faster (which is irrelevant due to down-scaling), but as a general rule, the game would play much more in the lines of GW1, where you'd go through more areas to finish the game, but each of them needed to be just partly completed.

I really hate how GW2 is full of paths that end up being wrong turns - you go left instead of right and you die at the first foe because you are not of high enough level to take on that foe. And if content progressed slower in each area, there would be no reason to have that foe in that location.

Not sure I share that experience. On my first char, I leveled to 80 mapping each zone I came into. I must have completed 5 or 6 zones before hitting max.

Now, on my second char, I follow the quest and story progression. I'm also completing story dungeons when I hit the minimum level. I don't find myself trying to map each zone, because that can come later, if I want, when I hit 80. I'm having a lot more fun now and, while there are some difficult enemies, they're nothing I can't handle with the skills available to me.

Also, actually using my karma to buy level-appropriate gear is amazing. I've probably spent 10 silver buying gear up to level 40, and that's only when my found gear was just too low for my level.

Gilles VI, on 24 January 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

Fun =/= balanced, I loved building my own bars, but you just have to agree PvP became very stale of it..

It was very boring to see every top GvG match lasting 25 minutes without any kill or maybe 1-2 and then NPC's started rushing and only then the game really began..

It allowed for lots of combinations 99% of the people wouldn't think of, and it allowed for a very high skill ceilling, but I think the PvP in GW2, build wise, is better.

I GvGed A LOT in GW1 and the stalemate matchups really depended on the comparative skill of the guilds involved. It required an almost equal balance of team skill for a stalemate to last until NPC rush.

Do you not remember sending individual gankers to pick off the borderline NPCs? Or using the catapults to down a few enemy players and gain the upper hand?

The number and variety of guild halls only added to the dynamics.

This game has more of a potential for tactical gameplay, owing to the expanded movement skills and abilities, combo fields, and the downed state. I believe Anet can work on creating more dynamic PVP maps and adding more dynamic events to WvW, but other than that, I think the PvP potential is rock solid.

[Ritualist]

shiggidyshwa, on 24 January 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

Not sure I share that experience. On my first char, I leveled to 80 mapping each zone I came into. I must have completed 5 or 6 zones before hitting max.

Either you did some extra stuff outside of killing shit, gathering and exploring (which means story, crafting, ...) or you must have gotten really lucky with DEs. Because by doing the persistent content (as mentioned above: hearts, exploration, ...) you do not get enough XP to advance at that rate.
I understand that it is possible, but it certainly isn't the experience one should expect to get from GW2 levelling.

[Cube]

Gilles VI, on 24 January 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

I don't find that, when I go for tournys we still have alot of options what we will run.
While in GW1 pretty much 50% of the team if not more had same builds for over 3-4 years now..

And this will come for GW2 as well. The game is still young, but already have people found that certain builds are superior to others and they run those or/and want others to run them too.

In a little bit of time every team will run the same build for months, years, till something better comes out...

[Gilles VI]

shiggidyshwa, on 24 January 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

I GvGed A LOT in GW1 and the stalemate matchups really depended on the comparative skill of the guilds involved. It required an almost equal balance of team skill for a stalemate to last until NPC rush.

Do you not remember sending individual gankers to pick off the borderline NPCs? Or using the catapults to down a few enemy players and gain the upper hand?

The number and variety of guild halls only added to the dynamics.

This game has more of a potential for tactical gameplay, owing to the expanded movement skills and abilities, combo fields, and the downed state. I believe Anet can work on creating more dynamic PVP maps and adding more dynamic events to WvW, but other than that, I think the PvP potential is rock solid.

When comparing builds/skills I always assume equal skill level of players ofc.
And I agree GW2 has more potential PvP-wise.

Cube, on 24 January 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

And this will come for GW2 as well. The game is still young, but already have people found that certain builds are superior to others and they run those or/and want others to run them too.

In a little bit of time every team will run the same build for months, years, till something better comes out...

I don't think so.
In GW1 certain professions were much better than others in roles.
For example frontline was pretty much always warrior (1 or 2) with just a very small timeframe of sins and later dervs.
Healing was always monks, flag running was almost almways a rit.
Interrupting was only mesmer, and in condi teams ranger.
...

While in GW2 atm.
Bunker: guardian, staff ele, necromancer, engineer.
Roamer: thief, ele, mesmer, warrior
Support: warrior, ele, necro, engineer, ranger
Pure DPS: mesmer, warrior, thief,..

The roles are alot more diverse, and people actually have a choice depending on team setup, sometimes a bunker guardian will be nice, and sometimes a bunker necro will be better.
While in GW1 pretty much half your team was predetermined what ever you rolled.

[Perm Shadow Form]

Been playing GS/Staff Guardian since the god damn August, same skills, same utilities, for more than 5 damn months.
You tell me how this is normal?
Swamp weapon? That's BS, I want to change the first 5 skills. I want to be able to run only 2 Attacks - Whirling Wrath and Strike and 8 utilities. Why can't I? That's just ridiculous

Even with the PvX Wikia, each profession had more than 20 different builds for different situations, PvE, PvP. There was no one unique build for everything.

How I describe this? Dumbed down for lazy ass people who don't want to use their brains to put together skills from the skill pool on their skill bar. Balance issues? Bull _! How much Guardian Heals skills (nr 6 slot) are there again? Doesn't matter, everyone uses Signet anyway. They can't even make 4 damn healing skills equally useful.

Yes, I'm mad..

[Raedin]

Perm Shadow Form, on 24 January 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

Been playing GS/Staff Guardian since the god damn August, same skills, same utilities, for more than 5 damn months.
You tell me how this is normal?
Swamp weapon? That's BS, I want to change the first 5 skills. I want to be able to run only 2 Attacks - Whirling Wrath and Strike and 8 utilities. Why can't I? That's just ridiculous

Even with the PvX Wikia, each profession had more than 20 different builds for different situations, PvE, PvP. There was no one unique build for everything.

How I describe this? Dumbed down for lazy ass people who don't want to use their brains to put together skills from the skill pool on their skill bar. Balance issues? Bull _! How much Guardian Heals skills (nr 6 slot) are there again? Doesn't matter, everyone uses Signet anyway. They can't even make 4 damn healing skills equally useful.

Yes, I'm mad..

I agree with you, I was kind of sad that they made your first 5 skills these auto assigned and auto locked mandatory abilities.  To make matters worse they completely removed what made you unique in GW1, your second profession.  With the new Trait System you do kind of have some difference with the player to your left but it's still very repetitive gameplay-wise especially in PvE where some weapon options aren't as viable as others, completely throwing options out the window, same can be said for pvp when considering classes like the Thief, Pistol/Pistol is completely overshadowed by the high mobility and AoE damage of the Shortbow.

I miss searching the internet for the perfect builds for my character and heroes.  I miss the customization.

[ShezuTsukai]

Di-Dorval, on 24 January 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Clearing maps and worrying about dailies isn't playing like GW1. In GW1 you just had to follow the story.

Just follow the story? What about mapping, side quests? I dispised scraping every little inch of GW1 map edge. And doing dailies is not a worry. I just played and usually Am surprised when the daily chest appears.

Don't get me wrong GW1 was awesome, WAS. GW2 takes things into a whole new realm of play with choices that really make other MMO's seem pedantic.

[Ritualist]

ShezuTsukai, on 24 January 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

Just follow the story? What about mapping, side quests? I dispised scraping every little inch of GW1 map edge.

Yeah, but you didn't do that to level.
That's his point - in GW2 you need to do all those things to keep up with the gear-check, whereas in GW1, you simply followed the story and that was basically it.
The pacing was much better there.



Also:


Pre-Searing pacing is absolutely superior to GW2 pacing (in terms of being a solo experience).
And don't get me started on the music and the world: my favourite parts in GW2 are still the parts where I recognize the GW1 world.

Edited by Protoss, 24 January 2013 - 06:06 PM.

[Necropolis]

A brilliantly designed game but many tweaks needed throughout.

Too many mobs with knockdowns & knockback. Too many worlds, remove some of the worls so to bring more players to the other worlds so you don't feel so alone in many areas throughout as we've all experienced. Ease up on the lengthy elite skill recharges and for god's sake the respawn rate needs to be tweaked in many areas, mobs spawn much too fast in some areas and there are many of them. Champions, some of them are so tough, you barely do any damage to them unless your with a group and I find many players running solo and as many mentioned, downscaling sucks big time. I think downscaling might be worthwhile if your in a group otherwise remove it for those who run solo. Waypoint travel, costly at max level, I can't stand it, 2+ to 3+ silver, lower waypoint fee's. Oh yeah, where's my guild hall???

No comparing GW1 to GW2, both games I enjoy and look forward to Anet's balancing and additions to GW2. I am holding my breath right now so I hope things get much better in GW2. Well there's my 2 cents. Have fun & play safe )

[InfestedHydralisk]

Been playing Guild Wars just before the release of Factions.

In terms of PvE; GW2 is much more enjoyable than GW1.
In terms of PvP; GW1 is soooooo much better than GW2. I miss it.

[Gilles VI]

Perm Shadow Form, on 24 January 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

Been playing GS/Staff Guardian since the god damn August, same skills, same utilities, for more than 5 damn months.
You tell me how this is normal?
Swamp weapon? That's BS, I want to change the first 5 skills. I want to be able to run only 2 Attacks - Whirling Wrath and Strike and 8 utilities. Why can't I? That's just ridiculous

Even with the PvX Wikia, each profession had more than 20 different builds for different situations, PvE, PvP. There was no one unique build for everything.

How I describe this? Dumbed down for lazy ass people who don't want to use their brains to put together skills from the skill pool on their skill bar. Balance issues? Bull _! How much Guardian Heals skills (nr 6 slot) are there again? Doesn't matter, everyone uses Signet anyway. They can't even make 4 damn healing skills equally useful.

Yes, I'm mad..

Really depends on you..
My main is also guardian and I too (much like everyone else) loved the GS, but recently (after 500h) I discovered the utility and strength of focus/scepter/sword/mace/torch/hammer.
And how did you only use 3 utilities? Never did Arah/high level fractals?
It's what you make of it really.
Guardian has so much choice that I'm constantly in doubt if I'm running the best setup for me..
I can't decide between support crits, F1 spam, consecrations, shouts, symbols, heals, boons,...

My elementalist is even worse..
Do I go full power, crit, condition damage, heals, support by control/boons,...

While in GW1 monks had 2 bars in PvE: UA and HB. In casual PvP (RA) only 1 bar: WoH, and competitive PvP (GvG) 2 bars: fuse & prot.
Ele also had only 1 bar till the 'recent' ele update: which was SH nuker..

As so many people have said before, the sheer number of combinations was much more in GW1, but the amount of usefull builds was little compared to GW2.

Edited by Gilles VI, 24 January 2013 - 06:49 PM.

[Daesu]

Gilles VI, on 24 January 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

While in GW1 monks had 2 bars in PvE: UA and HB. In casual PvP (RA) only 1 bar: WoH, and competitive PvP (GvG) 2 bars: fuse & prot.
Ele also had only 1 bar till the 'recent' ele update: which was SH nuker..

As so many people have said before, the sheer number of combinations was much more in GW1, but the amount of usefull builds was little compared to GW2.

It seems you don't know GW1 builds as much you think you do.  There are a lot more useful ele builds than just a SH nuker.  When you said that the GW1 ele only has 1 useful build, I thought you were going to mention an ER infuser, one of the most OP PvE ele builds, but you didn't.  An SH nuker?  Really?  An aoe spell with a long cool down that causes monsters to flee?  Never heard of AP, SF, BSurge, etc?

And monks have only 2 bars in PvE, UA and HB?  Never heard of WoH or AP in PvE?  And monks have many more effective builds in pvp than just that.  Healing Burst is also effective in RA.  LS, RC, WoH, or Healing Burst are all effective monk builds for GvG.

The sheer number of effective build combinations in GW1 far overwhelms those in GW2.  The skills in GW2 are so static and tied to a limited set of weapons, that you can't even switch their placements on your own skill bar.  And you can only swap between 2 weapons with a long cool down timer in between, how boring.

GW1 combat is more dynamic, you can swap between 4 weapon sets at any time, dodge projectiles, and make use of your terrain.  You can customize their skill bars and optimize your characters based on the areas that they are playing in.

Edited by Daesu, 24 January 2013 - 07:48 PM.

[shiggidyshwa]

Protoss, on 24 January 2013 - 04:22 PM, said:

Either you did some extra stuff outside of killing shit, gathering and exploring (which means story, crafting, ...) or you must have gotten really lucky with DEs. Because by doing the persistent content (as mentioned above: hearts, exploration, ...) you do not get enough XP to advance at that rate.
I understand that it is possible, but it certainly isn't the experience one should expect to get from GW2 levelling.

Don't get me wrong. It may have been more than 5-6 zones, but what I remember was explicitly mapping each zone I encountered, mostly because I didn't want to come back at a later level and see the same thing over again. Ironically, by leveling past the intended level, I made the content in lower zones much easier and less fun.

I followed by saying that on my next char, I played the game according to my level. If you follow the story quests into the appropriate zones, and do the events in those zones until you hit the required level for the next stage of your story, you progress just fine and the difficulty scales (as much as that's possible).