638 replies to this topic

[AKGeo]

Daesu, on 24 January 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

GW1 combat is more dynamic, you can swap between 4 weapon sets at any time, dodge projectiles, and make use of your terrain.  You can customize their skill bars and optimize your characters based on the areas that they are playing in.

You can't jump or dodge roll in GW1, both of which can directly impact the fight dynamically. In GW1 you had move speed buffs, and that's it. You couldn't jump off a cliff to escape, you had to run around obstacles in specifically-designed paths. You can still dodge projectiles that don't seek. and you can dodge the ones that do by evading.

Any weapon-swapping in GW1 was just for specific stats on the same weapons. Weapon mastery lines with limited skill points and requirements on the weapons themselves means that you couldn't take your warrior out with a hammer  and swap to a sword/shield and remain effective. You'd only swap to the shield if you're running away, or using a spear to build adrenaline. No damage from that spear, either. In GW2 you have two complete weapon sets that do full damage, considering that different weapons have traits in different trait lines, so you can trait specifically for two weapon sets and be fully effective.

You can use your terrain in GW2. I do it all the time. If a group of spread-out ranged enemies get obstructed, they all funnel around the corner allowing me to cleave and AoE them at once. Same thing with GW1. The thing is with GW2 you can't block enemies from running by you. Hooray, smarter AI! I didn't think that would be a bad thing. One of the biggest gripes about GW1 PvE was that the AI was too exploitable.

You can swap traits, utility skills, and weapons on the fly while in between fights. In GW1 you had one skill set available to you until you entered an outpost or town. As mentioned above, swapping to a completely different weapon set did nothing for you.

Edited by AKGeo, 24 January 2013 - 09:25 PM.

[Ehragus]

GW2 is great. But i expected better end-game and elite areas like DoA, FoW and UW.

[Perm Shadow Form]

Gilles VI, on 24 January 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

Really depends on you..
My main is also guardian and I too (much like everyone else) loved the GS, but recently (after 500h) I discovered the utility and strength of focus/scepter/sword/mace/torch/hammer.
And how did you only use 3 utilities? Never did Arah/high level fractals?
It's what you make of it really.
Guardian has so much choice that I'm constantly in doubt if I'm running the best setup for me..
I can't decide between support crits, F1 spam, consecrations, shouts, symbols, heals, boons,...

My elementalist is even worse..
Do I go full power, crit, condition damage, heals, support by control/boons,...

While in GW1 monks had 2 bars in PvE: UA and HB. In casual PvP (RA) only 1 bar: WoH, and competitive PvP (GvG) 2 bars: fuse & prot.
Ele also had only 1 bar till the 'recent' ele update: which was SH nuker..

As so many people have said before, the sheer number of combinations was much more in GW1, but the amount of usefull builds was little compared to GW2.

HA build - RC monk or WoH or Infuse or HB Monk (3 builds)
RA - WoH , Glimmering Light,  Peace and Harmony, SoD, SoR, ZB, etc ( 6+ Builds )
AB/JQ/FA - Anything ( X+ builds )

PvE - Anything ( Y + Builds )

Hell, I was running Mo/A Assassins's Promise Build and It was perfect for PvE even though it wasn;t even on PvXWikia.

Can Guardian be as diverse on GW2? No.

Only hardcore fans who CLAIM to have played GW1 will argue that GW2 is more complex than GW1.

[AKGeo]

Ehragus, on 24 January 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

GW2 is great. But i expected better end-game and elite areas like DoA, FoW and UW.

If GW2 were released with the same features as GW1, it would have the personal story, Fractals (to take the place of UW/FoW), and none of the standard dungeons. It would have released Ascalonian Catacombs in about 7 months after release, akin to Sorrow's Furnace.

DoA didn't get introduced until 3 years after the game was out. A variety of dungeons until Eye of the North. And none of them were accessible at lower levels.

GW2 has a lot more "end-game" content 4 months into live than really any other MMO out there.

[Arquenya]

Gilles VI, on 24 January 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

As so many people have said before, the sheer number of combinations was much more in GW1, but the amount of useful builds was little compared to GW2.

Which isn't really true. At least not during Prophecies and Factions.

It's a matter of more or less useful, it´s not black or white. Just as in GW2, some builds are a bit more viable than others. Which doesn't mean any other build is completely useless. You could always swap a skill or 2-3 and keep the same utility, adjust to whatever environment you would face. If we could clear FoW with a 8 mesmer team, that would imply that there's not just 1 build that worked, some other setups worked as well, just slightly less efficient. And how is that bad if it's more fun?

Also the mere fun of collecting skiills and playing around with builds was very much enjoyable. The freedom to choose and the amount of skills to choose from to basically pick any role that you´d want. Let alone secondary professions. It's not that 99% of the content was so tough that you wouldn't survive if you didn't pick precicely this or that build, you just had to balance your team´s healing and damage output.

In GW2 it´s the other way around. Not a lot of skills to choose from, sets of 5 skills fixed to a weapon, but the content being so easy that every build would basically work. A number of highly situational skills that are tied to your weapon that nobody would pick if there was an option to swap it for another skill and what you would call `useless` in GW.

I don´t know but the diversity of just my mesmer builds in GW far surpasses all the classes skills setups we have now.

Edited by Arquenya, 24 January 2013 - 10:09 PM.

[StormDragonZ]

Question 1: Name a game similar to GW1.

Question 2: Name a game similar to GW2.

I'm guaranteed you can answer Question 2 faster than #1 because there was, possible is, no game similar to GW1.

Yet ANet swore GW2 would be the game different from the other MMOs out there...

[I'm Squirrel]

all GW1 fans should try out http://www.pathofexile.com/

It's a F2P, released yesterday, from the developers of D1 and D2. I played 8 hours straight last night. It's the closest game to GW1 so far in terms of innovation and customization. It makes ArenaNet look like a bunch of lazy pigs (srs). The graphics, the animations, the sound effects, the class system, the skill system, the loot, the dungeons, the bosses are absolutely amazing. Even the story is guaranteed much better than GW2's...

What's funny is that Arenanet has a team of 200+, while the team that made PoE has around 20.

Edited by I'm Squirrel, 24 January 2013 - 10:17 PM.

[Daesu]

AKGeo, on 24 January 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

You can't jump or dodge roll in GW1, both of which can directly impact the fight dynamically. In GW1 you had move speed buffs, and that's it. You couldn't jump off a cliff to escape, you had to run around obstacles in specifically-designed paths. You can still dodge projectiles that don't seek. and you can dodge the ones that do by evading.

You don't need dodge roll if you notice and use your terrain to your advantage.  Besides, due to endurance limit, you can only dodge roll about twice each battle anyway.

Quote

Any weapon-swapping in GW1 was just for specific stats on the same weapons. Weapon mastery lines with limited skill points and requirements on the weapons themselves means that you couldn't take your warrior out with a hammer  and swap to a sword/shield and remain effective. You'd only swap to the shield if you're running away, or using a spear to build adrenaline. No damage from that spear, either. In GW2 you have two complete weapon sets that do full damage, considering that different weapons have traits in different trait lines, so you can trait specifically for two weapon sets and be fully effective.

Weapon swapping for stats allows me to really plan my build.  For example, I can take a spear on my warrior not because of damage, but because he can gain adrenaline at range when he needs to.  I can also bring -energy weapon sets to counter energy denial on my casters when I needed to.  GW2 weapon sets just do not have the DEPTH of planning that GW1 weapon sets do.  They also don't add much facet to actual combat considering that their skills usually have long cool down, except for skill 1, and weapon swapping itself has a long cool down on its own too to discourage you from weapon swapping often.

Quote

You can use your terrain in GW2. I do it all the time. If a group of spread-out ranged enemies get obstructed, they all funnel around the corner allowing me to cleave and AoE them at once. Same thing with GW1. The thing is with GW2 you can't block enemies from running by you. Hooray, smarter AI! I didn't think that would be a bad thing. One of the biggest gripes about GW1 PvE was that the AI was too exploitable.

You don't need to use terrain as much in GW2 because GW2 combat is mostly zerk.  It is simply about who deals the most damage to get the credit for the DE.

GW2 monster AI is also very exploitable.  If you make a mistake and you are about to die, just quit the game and come back.  The monsters would have forgotten about you, your conditions disappear, letting you heal.  If you want to avoid monsters, just run far enough from their spawn points and they will give up trying to attack you.  GW2 monster AI is also buggy and monsters turn invulnerable at the wrong time especially during under water combat.

Quote

You can swap traits, utility skills, and weapons on the fly while in between fights. In GW1 you had one skill set available to you until you entered an outpost or town. As mentioned above, swapping to a completely different weapon set did nothing for you.

What is the point of swapping skills between fights when you are not being attacked?  What would have made GW2 combat more interesting would be some limited ability to swap skills DURING fights, like weapon swapping, but without the long cool down.  GW1 requires you to plan your build while you are in town, so as to optimize your skill bar for the area that you intend to play in.  You can survive using a meta skill bar for most areas, but that would not be optimal and it really shows in the toughest areas in the game.  For example, try using your discordway in foundry and watch it fail miserably.  This makes it a lot more interesting than to use the same skill bar (i.e. same weapons) in GW2, for all areas.  You can't even swap the skills around your own skill bar, for crying out loud.  Everybody playing the same profession class is using the SAME EXACT set of skills, with the SAME EXACT placements, if they are using the same weapon class as you.  It is the same exact static, manufactured-to-look-alike skill bar being forced upon.

Edited by Daesu, 24 January 2013 - 11:37 PM.

[Lol Lol Lol Guy]

I started playing Gw1 a few months before EotN was released, and it was one of the most fun games I've ever had. Put in a few thousand hours in the first few years I played (which is alot for a casual video gamer like me.). I spent countless hours in both PvE and PVP with tons of friends, many of which i still keep in contact w/ today (some in gw2, most through facebook). Then gw2 came out, and after waiting 5 years, I was extrmely happy. However after a while I noticed the feeling of awesomeness was fading.

Gw2 is still an excellent game, no doubt about it, but I do miss Gw1 and some of its features. Granted, I think a huge amount of the reason I miss Gw1 is simply nostalgia. lol.

Both games are awesome, and IDK which one I think i will prefer in the end. I mean I love the much more MMO like aspect of 2, but I miss the customization, GOOD story, and stuff to do after story from gw1

[AKGeo]

Daesu, on 24 January 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

You don't need dodge roll if you notice and use your terrain to your advantage.  Besides, due to endurance limit, you can only dodge roll about twice each battle anyway.

You need to dodge roll more than twice for trash mobs? I have enough endurance to dodge roll every time Subject Alpha pops his big aoe. And that's not counting vigor. And when you say "you don't need dodge roll if you use terrain", and in the same argument say that the fighting isn't as dynamic in GW2...what is this I don't even

Daesu, on 24 January 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

Weapon swapping for stats allows me to really plan my build.  For example, I can take a spear on my warrior not because of damage, but because he can gain adrenaline at range when he needs to.  I can also bring -energy weapon sets to counter energy denial on my casters when I needed to.  GW2 weapon sets just do not have the DEPTH of planning that GW1 weapon sets do.  They also don't add much facet to actual combat considering that their skills usually have long cool down, except for skill 1, and weapon swapping itself has a long cool down on its own too to discourage you from weapon swapping often.

Yeah I mentioned adrenaline for warrior using spear. But you're not doing anything BUT gaining adrenaline with that spear. Your 5 damage points per hit aren't doing a damn thing. But on my warrior i can go from axe/shield to greatsword and STILL do high DPS. You can't do that in GW1. GW2 doesn't have energy, thus no energy denial. Weapon swapping in GW2 gives you a variety of effects as well, such as aoe freeze, stacks of bloodlust swapping to +5 damage or stacking might, or a nullification/giver's set to strip boons and transfer conditions, etc. And ALL gw1 skills had long cooldowns as well, EVEN skill 1. And again, you're getting 10 weapon skills, a heal, three utilities and an elite. In GW1 you had 8 skills. Period. And you couldn't change them out in an instance.

Daesu, on 24 January 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

You don't need to use terrain as much in GW2 because GW2 combat is mostly zerk.  It is simply about who deals the most damage to get the credit for the DE.

You don't spend too much time in dungeons, do you? No "zerg" in a dungeon.

Daesu, on 24 January 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

GW2 monster AI is also very exploitable.  If you make a mistake and you are about to die, just quit the game and come back.  The monsters would have forgotten about you, your conditions disappear, letting you heal.  If you want to avoid monsters, just run far enough from their spawn points and they will give up trying to attack you.  GW2 monster AI is also buggy and monsters turn invulnerable at the wrong time especially during under water combat.

What? Are you kidding me? You're about to die, so you log out and come back to avoid a waypoint and repair fee? How about not dying? Yeah, it's a reset button. But it resets everything, including your enemy. Not much tactical advantage there, you still have to deal with the same issues from before. That's not exploiting, that's just sucking. Exploiting would be to pull 30 mobs to a corner, stack them up while spamming blind or using shadow form to not take damage, then your team AOEs them to death from a safe spot because their AI doesn't allow them to bypass the ONE player blocking their progress. As for invulnerable bugginess...that's irrelevant. That has no bearing on "dynamic" combat, and it's not AI, it's just bad coding. Please stick to the topic.

Daesu, on 24 January 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

What is the point of swapping skills between fights when you are not being attacked?  What would have made GW2 combat more interesting would be some limited ability to swap skills DURING fights, like weapon swapping, but without the long cool down.  GW1 requires you to plan your build while you are in town, so as to optimize your skill bar for the area that you intend to play in.  You can survive using a meta skill bar for most areas, but that would not be optimal and it really shows in the toughest areas in the game.  For example, try using your discordway in foundry and watch it fail miserably.  This makes it a lot more interesting than to use the same skill bar (i.e. same weapons) in GW2, for all areas.  You can't even swap the skills around your own skill bar, for crying out loud.  Everybody playing the same profession class is using the SAME EXACT set of skills, with the SAME EXACT placements, if they are using the same weapon class as you.  It is the same exact static, manufactured-to-look-alike skill bar being forced upon.

The point of swapping skills between fights is that if you know what you'll be fighting next, you can swap out all three utility slots, your two weapon sets, and traits to deal with them. Say you're in CM and fighting a bunch of melee thieves with bleed. You swap out your anti-ranged skills and put in your anti-conditions and blinds. Then when you're about to go down that hallway, you swap back. Boss coming up? Swap from your dps to your condition setup. You quite simply cannot do this in GW1. You have to build the entire team from the beginning to anticipate the worst mobs you'll face, and hope you brought enough damage to deal with the stuff that's immune to your specialized builds. Taking anti-ranged into AC for example...most of AC is melee. Anti-ranged would be for spiders, half the ghosts in path 2, and Kohler's pull. If you loadout all reflect skills, and don't change them, then you're just bad.

You're simply wrong. Again. What you're arguing is that you prefer GW1's combat system to GW2's. But if you sit there straight-faced and claim that GW1 was "MORE DYNAMIC"...there's all kinds of evidence to refute that wholeheartedly.

Edited by AKGeo, 25 January 2013 - 01:15 AM.

[Daesu]

AKGeo, on 25 January 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

You need to dodge roll more than twice for trash mobs? I have enough endurance to dodge roll every time Subject Alpha pops his big aoe. And that's not counting vigor. And when you say "you don't need dodge roll if you use terrain", and in the same argument say that the fighting isn't as dynamic in GW2...what is this I don't even

Dodge roll is a broken mechanic anyway, you are practically invincible when you are dodge rolling so I can understand why they nerfed it to only 2 per battle.  If you are dodge rolling more than that, it just goes to show how much more broken that mechanic is.

Quote

Yeah I mentioned adrenaline for ranger using spear. But you're not doing anything BUT gaining adrenaline with that spear. Your 5 damage points per hit aren't doing a damn thing. But on my warrior i can go from axe/shield to greatsword and STILL do high DPS. You can't do that in GW1. GW2 doesn't have energy, thus no energy denial. Weapon swapping in GW2 gives you a variety of effects as well, such as aoe freeze, stacks of bloodlust swapping to +5 damage or stacking might, or a nullification/giver's set to strip boons and transfer conditions, etc. And ALL gw1 skills had long cooldowns as well, EVEN skill 1. And again, you're getting 10 weapon skills, a heal, three utilities and an elite. In GW1 you had 8 skills. Period. And you couldn't change them out in an instance.

Unlike GW2, DPS is not everything in GW1, there is also utility, planning, and exploitation of terrain.  GW1 skills do not have long cool downs if you plan them appropriately.  GW2 cool down is ridiculous enough to be 5 mins long!

Quote

You don't spend too much time in dungeons, do you? No "zerg" in a dungeon.

Dungeons are trash.  They are basically repeats and grinds of the same old levels and pretty much dps oriented anyway.

Quote

What? Are you kidding me? You're about to die, so you log out and come back to avoid a waypoint and repair fee? How about not dying? Yeah, it's a reset button. But it resets everything, including your enemy. Not much tactical advantage there, you still have to deal with the same issues from before. That's not exploiting, that's just sucking. Exploiting would be to pull 30 mobs to a corner, stack them up while spamming blind or using shadow form to not take damage, then your team AOEs them to death from a safe spot because their AI doesn't allow them to bypass the ONE player blocking their progress. As for invulnerable bugginess...that's irrelevant. That has no bearing on "dynamic" combat, and it's not AI, it's just bad coding. Please stick to the topic.

So you are telling us that you have never ever made a mistake in your entire life and that you have reached the stage of a perfect human being?  Right....Note that you can't waypoint out of combat.  Leaving and re-entering the game resets your enemy and allows you to progress where you left off without the hassle.  That in itself, is an exploit of the limited AI.

I don't know why I even bother replying to your posts.  All our previous arguments have ended up with you resorting to personal attacks and name calling and I can already see where this one is heading to, with just this first reply from you.

Edited by Daesu, 25 January 2013 - 01:29 AM.

[Besath]

I was waiting for GW2 since the announcement of it being made (like any other GW fan, probably). I had to save some money to buy a new PC to run it and it took me some time, so I started playing GW2 just about 2 weeks ago.

I don't know why, maybe because the game was already 3 months old and my excitement disappeard somewhere, but when I created my first character I couldn't help but feel that the game was boring and I logged off after the Great Hunt and killing some minotaurs. I gave the game another try after about 2 days and I changed my mind a bit. I do think that the gameplay is quite fun (open world pve at least) but I do not get the same kind of excitement from GW2 as I did from GW1.

I also don't feel any sense of community. I have so fond memories of GW1 because I played through the whole Prophecies campaign with people (that was before heroes). There was no point using henchies, when you could find people for missions and questing from outpost to the next mission easily. In GW2 the only interaction with people that I have is doing group events (if there are other people around to do them) and sometimes reviving each other. Sometimes someone will say "thank you" for spending my time on reviving him or her, but in most cases people do not speak. In GW1 after playing through the campaign once I liked to sit in mission outposts and help people get through the game. I felt kind of like a mentor to the new players, explaing bonuses and some tactics (like running to the catapult in Fort Ranik to save time). Here I have a solo personal story that is in no way engaging (up to level 30 at least) and a silent world with people minding their own businesses.

Here is my next complaint - questing. Oh how I wish GW2 had traditional quests. Sure, hearts will grant you lots of exp but on the other hand it's just one activity in a small area. Sure, you have two or three objectives per heart, but what I do is I find which one is the least bothersome and in case of most of the hearts they bore me to death. And then there are dynamic events, which would be cool if there were more of them. That's also why I would prefer normal quests. You know where you are going and why are you going there for. You just get to a village or whatever, grab your tasks and your off. In GW2 I get to a heart, I do a heart and... in most cases there's nothing more to do. The DEs are so sparce and repetitive that I don't really like them that much.

As I stated previously, I do like the gameplay, but I do agree with people saying that GW1 was better in that regard. I was against weapon skills system from the first time I heard about it, but decided I won't complain about it much until I play the game. I have to say I still would prefer to be able to change weapon skills, even if the pool of skills to choose from would be limited and picked by ANet.

What I'm also fond of are jumping puzzles, though they do seem a bit easy in most cases as I did play a lot of kz_ maps for Counter-Strike.

[AKGeo]

Daesu, on 25 January 2013 - 12:34 AM, said:

Dodge roll is a broken mechanic anyway, you are practically invincible when you are dodge rolling so I can understand why they nerfed it to only 2 per battle.  If you are dodge rolling more than that, it just goes to show how much more broken that mechanic is.



Unlike GW2, DPS is not everything in GW1, there is also utility, planning, and exploitation of terrain.  GW1 skills do not have long cool downs if you plan them appropriately.  GW2 cool down is ridiculous enough to be 5 mins long!



Dungeons are trash.  They are basically repeats and grinds of the same old levels and pretty much dps oriented anyway.



So you are telling us that you have never ever made a mistake in your entire life and that you have reached the stage of a perfect human being?  Right....Note that you can't waypoint out of combat.  Leaving and re-entering the game resets your enemy and allows you to progress where you left off without the hassle.  That in itself, is an exploit of the limited AI.

I don't know why I even bother replying to your posts.  All our previous arguments have ended up with you resorting to personal attacks and name calling and I can already see where this one is heading to.

1: Dodge roll is not broken simply BECAUSE it's limited to two without endurance boosts. And being invulnerable for a half second...yeah that's so broken.

2: Um...DPS is more important in GW1 than in GW2. Sure you can dominate most of PvE in GW2 with just DPS builds. But take a full-dps build into a dungeon without the utility skills (not to mention player skill) needed to counter some of the portions and you're going to fail. You can't take 5 dps warriors and just mindlessly barge through any dungeon without any problems. You need to know the paths. You need to know the enemies. You need to have the right skills to get the job done. In GW1 you took discord on heroes, applied hexes and conditions, and sat back while you destroyed the enemy with JUST dps. Sure, you could have done it differently, just like you can do it differently in GW2. But you can do more in GW1 with its broken mechanics.

Everything you're saying is the opposite of reality, you know. You call GW2 broken but forget about shadow form, 55 monks, 600/smiters, 330 rits, etc. Solo tank builds that cleared the hardest content in the game. That's what's broken. GW2 is far from broken when it comes to overpowered skill sets.

3: Dungeons are the most innovative portions of this game. And nice excuse for not being able to just faceroll through them like you can in regular PvE. As for repeating of the same stuff...yeah because that spider in the southwest of the zone is totally different from the spider in the northeast of the zone. Everything in GW2 can be considered "the same old grind"...but you can't sit in the same spot in a dungeon and just keep farming respawning enemies like you can in the explorable areas. YOu have to complete the dungeon, or leave without the rewards, to do the same content again. You can't bot a dungeon. You can bot anywhere in PvE if your skillset is enough to survive the mobs you're farming without player input or on-the-fly adjustments. And since you already said you don't PvP, that's the only other option from dungeons.

Oh I've made mistakes. I've died in PvE. I've waypointed back and repaired armor after dying. I pay for my mistakes. I don't exit out of the game if I'm about to die just so I get a free reset when I log back in. Honestly, I'd prefer it if the game automatically defeated you and broke a random armor piece (not just damaged) if you quit out of the game on purpose when in combat. It's cheap. It's not an exploit of the AI, though. You need to work on your definitions. The biggest AI exploit I've seen was bugging Subject Alpha in CoE. But that's also a coding issue, not a method of using the intended actions of an enemy against him. MAYBE you can claim that using a reflecting wall against stationary ranged targets to send their own damage back at them is an exploit at AI. But that's pretty weak compared to infinite invulnerability in GW1.

As for the insults...perhaps you knew they would be coming because you feel that you deserve them. Everything I present to you, you reply with an excuse that you either don't play it or you disagree with the mechanic, although it's the way the game was made. You don't do dungeons, so you can't claim that everything in GW2 is a zerg. You don't PvP so you can't claim that everyone's the same with the same skillset, because you haven't played directly against anyone WITH the same skillset but more SKILL. You continue to show us how bad at the game you really are, and use that lack of ability as evidence that the game is broken or subpar. I think you preferred the exploits of GW1. I think you preferred to be able to mindlessly complete the hardest content in the game with an overpowered skill bar that EVERYONE ELSE USES. I think you're just lazy.

Edited by AKGeo, 25 January 2013 - 01:37 AM.

[Gilles VI]

Perm Shadow Form, on 24 January 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

HA build - RC monk or WoH or Infuse or HB Monk (3 builds)
RA - WoH , Glimmering Light,  Peace and Harmony, SoD, SoR, ZB, etc ( 6+ Builds )
AB/JQ/FA - Anything ( X+ builds )

PvE - Anything ( Y + Builds )

Hell, I was running Mo/A Assassins's Promise Build and It was perfect for PvE even though it wasn;t even on PvXWikia.

Can Guardian be as diverse on GW2? No.

Only hardcore fans who CLAIM to have played GW1 will argue that GW2 is more complex than GW1.

Lolol if you claim PnH, SoD, SoR and glimmering were effective in RA (big LOL) I can just as effectively claim guardians can go full power, crit, condition, spirit weapons, consecrations, boons, pure heals, shouts,...

HA: only WoH fuse and RC prot were used much.
AB/JQ/FA: everything??? xD

PvE anything? yes ofcrouse it was piss easy that you could roll anything you wanted..
FoW/UW/DoA HM? Pretty much standard team setup for the last 4 years..

Btw claiming is really bad, I'd claim that anyone with a avatar of SF has extremely bad taste and really doesn't know anything about good builds..

Edited by Gilles VI, 25 January 2013 - 09:54 AM.

[Gilles VI]

Daesu, on 24 January 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

It seems you don't know GW1 builds as much you think you do.  There are a lot more useful ele builds than just a SH nuker.  When you said that the GW1 ele only has 1 useful build, I thought you were going to mention an ER infuser, one of the most OP PvE ele builds, but you didn't.  An SH nuker?  Really?  An aoe spell with a long cool down that causes monsters to flee?  Never heard of AP, SF, BSurge, etc?

And monks have only 2 bars in PvE, UA and HB?  Never heard of WoH or AP in PvE?  And monks have many more effective builds in pvp than just that.  Healing Burst is also effective in RA.  LS, RC, WoH, or Healing Burst are all effective monk builds for GvG.

The sheer number of effective build combinations in GW1 far overwhelms those in GW2.  The skills in GW2 are so static and tied to a limited set of weapons, that you can't even switch their placements on your own skill bar.  And you can only swap between 2 weapons with a long cool down timer in between, how boring.

GW1 combat is more dynamic, you can swap between 4 weapon sets at any time, dodge projectiles, and make use of your terrain.  You can customize their skill bars and optimize your characters based on the areas that they are playing in.

http://www.gwpvx.com/User:Gilles_VI
Some builds are pretty standard, but for example the PvP warrior/assassin build are mine, the full PvE hero team is mine.
Those heroes synergy was so good I did WoC HM without breaking a sweat with them.

i've never seen anyone roll that warrior PvP build I had, even though it had 11sec KD with big dmg and with only a 1,5 sec pauze in the middle, a chain that could be repeated very fast because of low dagger recharge.
I got over 4000 gladiator points with that build in last months..

And you need to look separate for PvE and PvP..
Yes in PvE ele was almost only good for emo, in PvP it pretty much was only good for only 1 thing too, this changed over the years but the number of effective builds remained the same.
For a very small time SF, but it never got high competetive, SH nuker was used alooot in balanced builds because for its awesome synergy with warrior ES.
Then it was replaced with water magic in most setups, then recently to air magic (invoke lightning or bsurge) and very recently to glimmering..

I'm talking about effective builds here, the only other effective elite except UA/HB in PvE would be PnH.

And how is swapping between 4 weap sets which most don't even really used except for more armor more dynamic than having 2 weap sets that actually do something..

[Lucas Ashrock]

Besath, on 25 January 2013 - 12:41 AM, said:

I was waiting for GW2 since the announcement of it being made (like any other GW fan, probably). I had to save some money to buy a new PC to run it and it took me some time, so I started playing GW2 just about 2 weeks ago.

I don't know why, maybe because the game was already 3 months old and my excitement disappeard somewhere, but when I created my first character I couldn't help but feel that the game was boring and I logged off after the Great Hunt and killing some minotaurs. I gave the game another try after about 2 days and I changed my mind a bit. I do think that the gameplay is quite fun (open world pve at least) but I do not get the same kind of excitement from GW2 as I did from GW1.

I also don't feel any sense of community. I have so fond memories of GW1 because I played through the whole Prophecies campaign with people (that was before heroes). There was no point using henchies, when you could find people for missions and questing from outpost to the next mission easily. In GW2 the only interaction with people that I have is doing group events (if there are other people around to do them) and sometimes reviving each other. Sometimes someone will say "thank you" for spending my time on reviving him or her, but in most cases people do not speak. In GW1 after playing through the campaign once I liked to sit in mission outposts and help people get through the game. I felt kind of like a mentor to the new players, explaing bonuses and some tactics (like running to the catapult in Fort Ranik to save time). Here I have a solo personal story that is in no way engaging (up to level 30 at least) and a silent world with people minding their own businesses.

Here is my next complaint - questing. Oh how I wish GW2 had traditional quests. Sure, hearts will grant you lots of exp but on the other hand it's just one activity in a small area. Sure, you have two or three objectives per heart, but what I do is I find which one is the least bothersome and in case of most of the hearts they bore me to death. And then there are dynamic events, which would be cool if there were more of them. That's also why I would prefer normal quests. You know where you are going and why are you going there for. You just get to a village or whatever, grab your tasks and your off. In GW2 I get to a heart, I do a heart and... in most cases there's nothing more to do. The DEs are so sparce and repetitive that I don't really like them that much.

As I stated previously, I do like the gameplay, but I do agree with people saying that GW1 was better in that regard. I was against weapon skills system from the first time I heard about it, but decided I won't complain about it much until I play the game. I have to say I still would prefer to be able to change weapon skills, even if the pool of skills to choose from would be limited and picked by ANet.

What I'm also fond of are jumping puzzles, though they do seem a bit easy in most cases as I did play a lot of kz_ maps for Counter-Strike.

Agree 100%. And no, you're not alone, any new customer of this game would feel the same, expecially if was a gw1 player.
As a former great player of gw1 during prophecies, i can easily tell this game is not even the dust of gw1 about fun , socialization, excitement to log more and more, for months, years. 3rd month, got everything, i'm just done, moved to pso2 and PoE (next 2 hours, time to download the PoE client)
I love community games and fun, no time to waste on TP loner wars 2

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 25 January 2013 - 10:05 AM.

[pumpkin pie]

They are 2 different games having the same lore origin, once you accept that, they can both be great games.

[Lucas Ashrock]

To be honest, it seems to me more of a commercial junk like the typical hollywood fail we see sometimes attempting to use a big name than a great successor of Guildwars.
Putting a 2 to attempt a cash out, being just a fail. Like this game, after all.
At the end, is just junk with just a bit of the first movie. I saw one this week. Alien vs predator 2.
(Lol the 1st wasn't at all a masterpiece but well, watchable, fit the example, but i can make better examples). 1st movie was a good one, inspired a great videogame too. Now watch the 2nd lol.

Edited by Lucas Ashrock, 25 January 2013 - 01:16 PM.

[raspberry jam]

Lucas Ashrock, on 25 January 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

To be honest, it seems to me more of a commercial junk like the typical hollywood fail we see sometimes attempting to use a big name than a great successor of Guildwars.
Putting a 2 to attempt a cash out, being just a fail. Like this game, after all.

Yes, this is what I feel too. It's just some generic MMO, with a Guild Wars skin pasted on top of it.

[Silent The Legend]

What do I think? That GW2 could have been an actual sequel of the game instead of an strange, dangerous and absolutely unsuccessful  mix of half-experimental, dumbed down, boring and senseless content that does not even work in theory.

The game that would have come out would have been the game of the millenium. A polished, new and fresh GW1 with better engine? F**k yeah! But all we have now is a disaster, despite Arenanet keeps claiming that it is "revolutionary" and "the new king of MMOs".

[Afyael]

Gilles VI, on 25 January 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

Lolol if you claim PnH, SoD, SoR and glimmering were effective in RA (big LOL) I can just as effectively claim guardians can go full power, crit, condition, spirit weapons, consecrations, boons, pure heals, shouts,...

HA: only WoH fuse and RC prot were used much.
AB/JQ/FA: everything??? xD

PvE anything? yes ofcrouse it was piss easy that you could roll anything you wanted..
FoW/UW/DoA HM? Pretty much standard team setup for the last 4 years..

Btw claiming is really bad, I'd claim that anyone with a avatar of SF has extremely bad taste and really doesn't know anything about good builds..

Peace and harmony was always trash but people it got playtime back in prophecies when there wasn't much choice (WoH was target OTHER at this point). SoD was heavily used in both GvG and RA at various points in GW as well, it got outclassed by the power creep but it still was a very useful skill, particularly when teams were running 3 frontliners. SoR isn't a great skill but it was used by bonders in RA that were passable healers (especially considering the skill level/enchantment removal in RA). Glimmer is really bad I agree but I did see it run in RA and I do have a few gladiator points from when I was messing around with it.

WoH and RC were perhaps the most common builds run in HA but HB was used a lot too, it was clunky and I didn't like it because it would be a pita to keep up even with channeling covering it but I was asked to run it a lot and when it was up, it was godly.

Guild Wars definitely had way more variable builds than this game, I remember running an air of enchantment smiter in GvG, there were a couple months when I and every other monk around was running mantra of recall or offering of blood(along with boon prots(<3). Admittedly Guild Wars was out for much longer and thus went through more changes in the metagame but i've never felt so restricted in a game when it comes to pvp as I have in GW2, at least as a guardian (playing bunker day in and day out to give my team the best chance to win).

[Gileas898]

Gilles VI, on 25 January 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

Btw claiming is really bad, I'd claim that anyone with a avatar of SF has extremely bad taste and really doesn't know anything about good builds..

Good builds? Are you claiming that Shadow Form was not THE best skill in Guild Wars 1, objectively speaking?

[JimRiven]

I like GW2, I honestly do. but its massively inferior in almost every way to GW, (other than the graphics)
an MMO with a truly open world yet you are forced to play through most things solo? I used to love the party missions for storyline, anyone remember the horrific builds we used to see in RoF when Prophecies was the only release?
What do we have now? a few events that are used solely for farming (give the mf gear a rest people, I'm tired of trying to res you all)
and dungeons that are just unthinking dps fests.

And bring back Guild halls please, and a cape, the guild armour is horrific and unwearable, I might have shown a cape though.

[AzureRogue]

Everyone seems to bash on GW2 for dropping aspects of GW1...  but everyone knew that was going to happen (didn't you?).

I personally enjoy GW2 far more than GW1 (which I played starting about two months after release and still log onto occasionally).  I think that there's more freedom to experiment with class setups and while certain builds are, indeed, pretty strong you don't get stuck into on or two roles that are godlike until the nerf bat comes along and changes the whole meta every couple of months.

WvW (as someone mentioned) *is* very PvE like but that's because it was meant to encourage players to try out a PvP-ish setting when they otherwise wouldn't.  I'm happy with WvW and think they did a great job with it.

I'm happy that I can play almost any of my classes in basically any role (DPS, support, control, etc) and that choosing a class doesn't pigeon-hole me into one aspect of the game.  In GW1 you could fight this but never totally overcome it.  In GW2 if you get bored of being a DPS role, you can get some new gear and re-trait and you'll be fine (in most cases) in your new role.

The combat system of GW2 is also much more dynamic and fun in my opinion.  I play a D/D elementalist and love how involved I am in most situations.  Back in GW1 I played an ele, a necro, and (for a while) a paragon.  Each one was super easy.

The only concept I miss from GW1 is hard mode.

[Gilles VI]

Gileas898, on 25 January 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

Good builds? Are you claiming that Shadow Form was not THE best skill in Guild Wars 1, objectively speaking?

I'd consider Ursan THE best skill ever, making HM PvE a joke for every profession.

Afyael, on 25 January 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

Peace and harmony was always trash but people it got playtime back in prophecies when there wasn't much choice (WoH was target OTHER at this point). SoD was heavily used in both GvG and RA at various points in GW as well, it got outclassed by the power creep but it still was a very useful skill, particularly when teams were running 3 frontliners. SoR isn't a great skill but it was used by bonders in RA that were passable healers (especially considering the skill level/enchantment removal in RA). Glimmer is really bad I agree but I did see it run in RA and I do have a few gladiator points from when I was messing around with it.

WoH and RC were perhaps the most common builds run in HA but HB was used a lot too, it was clunky and I didn't like it because it would be a pita to keep up even with channeling covering it but I was asked to run it a lot and when it was up, it was godly.

Guild Wars definitely had way more variable builds than this game, I remember running an air of enchantment smiter in GvG, there were a couple months when I and every other monk around was running mantra of recall or offering of blood(along with boon prots(<3). Admittedly Guild Wars was out for much longer and thus went through more changes in the metagame but i've never felt so restricted in a game when it comes to pvp as I have in GW2, at least as a guardian (playing bunker day in and day out to give my team the best chance to win).

As you said, you should consider vanilla gw1 to gw2.
And I too play asa bunker in tPvP, but I often swap according to team..
And with swap I mean utilities/traits/weapons, which in my opinion is alot of more customisation than in GW1, where I always was asked to run the same old fuse build over and over..

[Robsy128]

I think it's fun. I miss the skill customisation, but I like the direction they took with GW2

[Straight Trill]

I miss it taking skill to make a solid build. Or make a team build for GvG or HA. I miss guild capes/hall. I miss dual professin I miss ONE BIG OPEN server. There was just something about GW1 that kept me going with it. But GW2 just doesnt have it...

[Gilles VI]

Robsy128, on 25 January 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

I think it's fun. I miss the skill customisation, but I like the direction they took with GW2

I have double feelings about it.

It was so awesome to go full troll build in RA and keep people entertained till the timer ran out, and on the other hand I love I can't get trolled so much now.
The build customisation was immense, but I think they took the better approach now for the future and for e-sports.

Edited by Gilles VI, 25 January 2013 - 08:31 PM.

[El Duderino]

I just bought and started playing GW2 recently, but I will add my impressions.

The cooperative play that was forced upon you in GW1 was great. I remember I was initially a bit shy when I started, but it really formed a great bond between you and people you never met that led to great interaction and friendships among the player base. I think this was greatly overlooked by ANet even with the addition of heroes from GW1.

I also miss the PvP. It was a huge part of the endgame and was entwined with the game. Wanted to go to FoW? Great. Better go win halls. Had a guild and wanted to mess around as a team? Enter GvG. After that it got serious and competitive which accounted for 75% of my time after I beat Prophecies for the first time.

I say this because I think that there were expectations I had waiting for GW2 based on my experience in GW1 that have not been met - and I was sure that they would be. I honestly thought GW2 would be GW1 but with all the mistakes corrected and perhaps some nice new mechanics and graphics.

Instead, we have a new game with new mechanics and almost nothing similar besides the name. I think that makes a lot of GW1 players a bit sad because we all loved GW1 and it just isn't what we expected GW2 to be at all.

[Mekkakat]

On topic -

GW2 isn't at all what I wanted in my Guild Wars successor, but is still a good and fun game. Sadly, not nearly as good (in only MY opinion) as GW1.

Off topic -

This thread is messy lol.