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GW2 and eSports, Do You Want It?

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#1 TR_aSith

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 02:27 PM

Original Reddit Post:
http://www.reddit.co...do_you_want_it/
(Upvote and post if you have reddit please)


Hi, my name is Jon Penney and I am a member of a group called Transatlantic Rampage. We are a competitive team who have been making a lot of noise in the competitive scene with sights on becoming involved with eSports for GW2. Right along with Alpha Collective, Team Imperial and several other competitive teams in the game right now.

The question is, does the community want GW2 to be a part of eSports?

Let me explain a bit more in-depth. I, an eSports fanatic, would love to see it happen and not just for personal reason (though it would be awesome to take part in the eSports). In the end what I do, what we do, and what we want to do is offer the community not just entertainment but we want to give back to you. In other games this is often done with guides, strategies, gameplay videos, and streams. Right now we are in the early days of GW2, but it is apparent to a lot of us who are trying our best to be the best that there is a great possibility for eSports in GW2. Some guides, streams, and videos are out there, but we want to offer you the best but it is all for not if it is not seen. We, the teams, can offer you, the community, a lot but we need to work together.

If you want eSports to become part of GW2, if you want content such as guides, videos, strategies, and streams we need you to want it. Come watch our streams, support the different teams, spread the word.

Games don't become part of eSports without an audience who wants it to. We need an audience. A lot of us believe that this will happen but raising awareness never hurts. So tune in to streaming sites like Twitch.tv, look me up (TR_aSith) and the rest of us out there like Alpha Collective and Team Imperial.

TLDR; We, the competitive teams, want eSports to be a part of GW2. Do you?

Leave your comments below, be kind to others posting, and lets discuss!


#2 Condition

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:30 AM

Frankly, the pvp just isn't exciting enough to be a huge esport. Seriously, watch any 1v1 against a guardian or something. It's flat out boring.

Combined with the complete lack of current balance (mesmes/thieves broken) and Anet's stupid decision to not seperate pvp/pve skills the future of pvp balance looks pretty grim.

I'm sure there will be a niche and the scene will be dominated by the teams that put in the most time and use the most efficient metas.

#3 Screek

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:01 PM

I strongly disagree with above poster.
Its a 5v5 game, not a 1v1 game!
regarding builds - maybe, maybe not. I don't think we're gonna have the "magic setup" that can beat anything.
Everything seems to have a weakness.


I for one would love to see it go e-sport.
Personally then i don't watch streams yet because the tools to tell who is the real deal (ranking system?) and organized tournaments is not something we or i at least see yet.

Stuff like kommentators is also something that i love and helps to keep and overview on whats infact happening.

When those kinda things is gonna take place, then im gonna cancle my TV channels because they won't be needed anymore :D

Edited by Screek, 11 September 2012 - 12:09 PM.


#4 AetherMcLoud

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:24 PM

I never got why people would watch other people doing sports (no matter if e or rl sports). So meh. Playing yourself > watching others.

#5 dottek

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:28 PM

Well maybe its just me but actual game mode is not that amazing to look at as an e-sport. I will prefer simplier Team Deathmatch or GvG. Hold the point is more about roaming and strategy instead of fightin and showin ingame skill. But once the TDM will be implemented I am sure it will be awesome.

#6 Macadami

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:46 PM

This game needs de_dust2. Throw that bad boy in rotation, easily recognizable by most gamers, considered one of the best maps out there.

#7 Kelarmz

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:48 PM

I would absolutely love to see GW2 go e-sport, but in its current condition (and Anet has been silent so far about changing that) I just don't think it would stick.  Balance is atrocious, there is no rating system whatsoever and the "upper tier" (being paid tournaments) whatever that means, doesn't even work.  

Those aren't the only problems either.  There doesn't seem to be any support for spectating games at all (kind of important for an e-sport...) and perhaps even more importantly, the game doesn't really seem to have been designed to be spectated.  Many spells have fairly nondescript animations and effects and the UI is kind of lacking in information.  Anyone who isn't very familiar with the game wouldn't have a clue what was going on.  

Based on what A-net was saying while developing the game, I had really high hopes for GW2 (far moreso than any other MMO that's come out in the last, like, decade) and I do enjoy playing the game during relatively short sessions, but if I'm honest with myself it's been nothing but a disappointment so far.

Edited by Kelarmz, 11 September 2012 - 12:53 PM.


#8 politesowter

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 01:54 PM

I'd love to see it go E-sport, might be the first game in can play competitively (I'm definitely not a RTS gamer that's for sure.)

However I have to agree with a number of points made here. We need Rankings, Spectator mode (with the option (don't know how implementable it would be) to have on screen pop-ups saying what skills are being used, example being, the person you are chosing to spectate, pops a skill and slightly left of centre screen the skill name pops up.) And maybe 1 other game type. As much as Domination works for team play, its difficult as a spectator game. TDM, King of the hill would all be possibilities for better spectator viewing and for the players as well i can imagine. Nothing like mixing up the game mode in the middle of a tourny, will really show the well organised teams..

But as a lot of people have said Anet have been keeping quite about what their plans are so I guess we just have to wait and see.

Just my 2 cents, James.

#9 theRealKlassic

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 06:00 PM

View PostMacadami, on 11 September 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

This game needs de_dust2. Throw that bad boy in rotation, easily recognizable by most gamers, considered one of the best maps out there.

LOL! de_dust2. GW2 should have a demolition mode, where one team plants the c4 and another has to defuse it. Anet could just make a reskin of de_dust2, that would be hilarious.

Edited by theRealKlassic, 11 September 2012 - 06:01 PM.


#10 particle

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 06:09 PM

I've decided that I don't or that I don't care if it's an esport or not.  It's got nothing to do with spectator value but more so what happens to a games community becoming full of xbox kids and League of Legends kids with snotty attitudes that are no better than your average player acting like they are great.  This becomes abundant when a game goes big in esports.  Not every game has to be an esport, you can have a small competitive community and be just fine.  Besides I have my doubts that anet will be putting a ton of effort into "esports".

Edited by particle, 11 September 2012 - 06:11 PM.


#11 TheLysander

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 06:13 PM

I think its pretty balanced in terms of mechanics but there doesn't seem to be much support on ANet's side. The rewards for PvP in this game are crappier than any other MMO to date, including GW1, so in-game there is no prestige that would make people want to PvP. What do i get right now? Boxes that give me stuff I've gotten 100 times, a new finisher every 10 levels (and levels take like a day to grind past 20), and armor I can't even wear in WvW. I'm not asking for GG gear, but in what is supposed to be a PvP centric franchise, the PvPers are walking around looking like total bums. Give me a mount, give me an emoticon, give me SOMETHING that I can take outside of the mists other than a meaningless title.

What also discouraging is that the last week the competition in tourneys seems to have really really dropped off. It used to be the last round you'd get a guild that knew what they were doing, but now more often than not its just randoms who get steamrolled.

So in summary, no fame + no compeition = no eSports.

#12 particle

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 06:18 PM

View PostTheLysander, on 11 September 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

Give me a mount, give me an emoticon, give me SOMETHING that I can take outside of the mists other than a meaningless title.

Then you'll start getting pve'rs complaining that it's not fair that they can't bring something from pve into the mists.  Then it becomes a real big storm of poop.  Keep the mists and pve completely separate, that is actually one of the good features in competitive pvp for gw2 that would have it barreling towards respectful competition.

Edited by particle, 11 September 2012 - 06:19 PM.


#13 TheLysander

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 06:24 PM

View Postparticle, on 11 September 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Then you'll start getting pve'rs complaining that it's not fair that they can't bring something from pve into the mists.  Then it becomes a real big storm of poop.  Keep the mists and pve completely separate, that is actually one of the good features in competitive pvp for gw2 that would have it barreling towards respectful competition.


see, i don't care if they bring in pve stuff to the mists and I don't think most pvpers would either. its just some other look, and we'd just say, who cares its pve crap!

or at least let us wear our pvp stuff in capital cities, if you want to compromise. i'm going to use wow as an example. for me I did arena because I wanted to run around on my nether drake. if there wasn't the nether drake and the title, i would never have bothered getting gladiator, and once I did that, I didn't play competitively anymore. why? because wow arena wasn't that fun for me. it was mostly just outlasting the other dudes and trying to drink. I find the pvp in GW and GW2 to be much more fun, so I would actually like to PvP competitively. Unfortunately the current state feel like a tacked on, last minute feature to a PvE game, so I don't think its going to happen :(

#14 Eclipses

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 06:27 PM

I'd like GW2 to have eSport viability, but the longer it takes Arenanet to get their shit in order the more likely that viability they so touted pre-release was just a pipe dream.

The sPvP and tPvP structure is pretty bad atm, needs a lot of fixing and additional features. Not to mention that there are a ton of bugs in class abilities; many mis-firing, missing, casting with no effect etc. Class balance atm is also just absolutely ridiculous. Half of the Ele traits alone are worthless or broken.

Rewards also need to be increased. Looks are fine, but more need to be added. Special emotes akin to GW1, special dyes with auras, announcements to all the servers about major tourny winners etc.

They need to get on this stuff pronto.

Edited by Eclipses, 11 September 2012 - 06:29 PM.


#15 Mackeo

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 03:21 AM

I mean I'm in line with most people in here. I would love for GW2 to have a big impact on the eSports scene.

However, as much as I or anyone wants for this to happen, the chances of it are slim. There's a ton of things holding PvP back right now, but in my mind the biggest impact is the lack of competitiveness in PvP. I'm not talking about teams, but rather the notion that matches are just inherently boring to watch. As someone who went to MLG events and competed in the past, and also someone who has watched MLG and other gaming tournaments for years (Watch LoL/ SC2 streams, have a gold MLG membership, etc), the current game isn't fun to watch. You could have the best teams in the world playing conquest best of 3, and still, it wouldn't be fun to watch.

I'm still not even sold on the idea of this game going competitive. Even if they had a significant overhaul  and revamped game modes, still wouldn't bet on it. The only way in my mind that this game jumps into esports, is if arenanet backs it up by holding their own paid tournaments. For instance, MLG would never pick this game up. SC2 and LoL games are generally long and interesting. The time when WoW was on the circuit for MLG NO ONE watched or cared. Arena Net would need to hold its own competiton almost similar to what Valve does with Dota, and Riot does with LoL and their tourney's. Most big third-party gaming communities wouldn't pick this game up.

#16 Futabot

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 01:49 AM

By E-Sports, I'm thinking actual organized invitationals with streaming and not necessarily sponsorship or public venues. It's worth it because the system can potentially lend itself to some nice in-game tournaments.

If people are talking about League as being exciting, that's really subjective. For the most part, the game has demonstrated a meta that consists of one point of early contention, followed by 5-10 minutes of very uninteresting farming and then a potential for some back-and-forth, ending in what generally is a slow bleed into victory. The reason why League is an E-sport isn't due to watchability, it's because 1) It got hyped/supported into one and 2) Its viewership cares enough about the game to want to learn from competitive play.

The crucial design flaw that keeps this game from being an E-sport at the moment is camera. Top-down RTSes give you a lot of information at its default angle. In this game, you see the map and your engagement. Unless we get a dedicated spectator mode, it's not watchable as a team game.

#17 DaddyDazzle

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 03:36 AM

do i want it to be an esport? yes
is it ready to be an esport? not yet

there are a LOT of issues that need to be fixed, and a few features that need to be added.

#18 Kelarmz

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:10 AM

View PostFutabot, on 14 September 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

By E-Sports, I'm thinking actual organized invitationals with streaming and not necessarily sponsorship or public venues. It's worth it because the system can potentially lend itself to some nice in-game tournaments.

If people are talking about League as being exciting, that's really subjective. For the most part, the game has demonstrated a meta that consists of one point of early contention, followed by 5-10 minutes of very uninteresting farming and then a potential for some back-and-forth, ending in what generally is a slow bleed into victory. The reason why League is an E-sport isn't due to watchability, it's because 1) It got hyped/supported into one and 2) Its viewership cares enough about the game to want to learn from competitive play.

The crucial design flaw that keeps this game from being an E-sport at the moment is camera. Top-down RTSes give you a lot of information at its default angle. In this game, you see the map and your engagement. Unless we get a dedicated spectator mode, it's not watchable as a team game.

You're wrong about league, but right about everything else.  GW2 cannot really be spectated in its current state.  And I'm not just talking about how there is no way to watch someone else's game (which is obviously retarded if they wanted this to be an E-sport).  It's just unwatchable on several levels, from camera angles to lack of UI and map information to nondescript spell animations that'd lead to viewers (particularly those not very familiar with the game) having no clue what is going on.  

For how much Anet hyped up the E-sport intentions of GW2, to be honest they've fallen laughably short of anything even resembling an E-sport.  As much as I couldn't wait to start playing GW2, I was truly hoping that Anet would have the sense not to fall into the same tragic pitfall that every MMO released in the past 5 or 6 years straight has, which is to release a completely unfinished game. I'm disappointed to see that's exactly what they've done.

Edited by Kelarmz, 16 September 2012 - 09:15 AM.


#19 Lord Nibiru

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 12:30 PM

League of Legends didn't have Spectator mode in almost 2 years of it's release date, but they added it.
I am sure Anet will do it too, I hope in near future.

For everyone saying watching fights will be messy, well, I just started to recognize skills from other professions I don't play.
It will need some time to learn them, but I am sure 80% of you know how Eviscerate or HS looks right now!

I don't agree with posters who mentions camera angels and UI, in spectator mode it will be different, so this things aren't even worth to mention as a problem.

Balance issues...they will be fixed, game is new. If you look at gw2 forum you will see there are already threads about bugs for every profession. Balance needs time, it has to be made careful and right.
I don't say Anet will always make a good move, but they are open to listen for us, and they will react accordingly.


We just need spectator mode ASAP...I am not sure what is the reason it's not here already...





To the OP: I am up for it! Do you have forum where we can meet and talk about ideas, and then share them to the public?

#20 Kelarmz

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:42 PM

View PostLord Nibiru, on 16 September 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:


I don't say Anet will always make a good move, but they are open to listen for us, and they will react accordingly.


Tbh this is the major hope at this point.  Anet is being responsive to the player base so far.  If they keep doing that, the game has a shot.

#21 team_iO

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 02:11 AM

As a team that is striving to be placed right up there with the teams already mentioned in the thread. We are definitely trying to push GW2 into the eSports scene and are doing what we can to support and promote it. We definitely are trying to keep the competitive juices flowing through all the teams out there and are actively looking to setup scrims against all teams, we have already done so with a few teams out there such as ALFA, AC, Imperial, and Super Squad. We just hope everyone sticks around until ANet pulls the trigger (hopefully).

If you're looking to do so please feel free to message us here or in game!

#22 ultima

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 10:21 AM

yes yes buff ele nerf mes nerf guardian and make observerview , give prices for the winners of ranked tourneys ... and esport will be there ... just do something arenanet... this game has the best pvp i have ever seen .. combofields, big theorycrafting, big utility and so addicted

#23 kir0id

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 05:56 PM

game is too boring atm, win 99% of matches stomp style

#24 Ingo Verhulst

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:59 PM

What can I say...I'd love for GW2 to be an esports yet it will probably never be. The way the pvp pans out just isnt suited to the masses. I also find that the gap between good players and great players is small. There are hardly mechanical skills involved nor is there something that could best be described as resource management (dodge energy comes closest with CD's being a second).

#25 OLdamon

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:56 AM

Remove mesmer from the game
Put rank on tpvp and spvp
make custom match
There you got a new e-sport :D

#26 Gabrielus

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 02:05 AM

I don't think the PvP is interesting enough and I have no desire to watch other people play a game when I can just as easily play it myself, I am not stating at the same skill level. I don't care if it becomes an esport but I don't have a particular desire for it to become one.

#27 Action Bastard

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 01:49 AM

View PostMacadami, on 11 September 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

This game needs de_dust2. Throw that bad boy in rotation, easily recognizable by most gamers, considered one of the best maps out there.
Oh god counter-strike...  I'm ashamed/proud to say I have 2000 hours logged on that game over 8 years >.>

#28 Naknoemo

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 06:23 PM

View Postkir0id, on 23 September 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

game is too boring atm, win 99% of matches stomp style
Same here, would love to fight you :)

And would love Guild Wars 2 going into Esport! Sign me up.





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