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transmutation stones are just plain awful


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#1 fr0st2k

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 04:11 PM

The premise is 'good,' but the implementation is just bad.

Currently, it’s just a mess.  You lose the color of your prestige armor. The system is just plain clunky in regards to organization, and it’s easy to lose your item (I haven’t lost one, so please don’t use that in your rebuttal…)

Think of the idea of what transmutation stones do...put simply, they allow you to apply a different item skin to a better item.  They also give a.net a renewable source of income because you can only do it as many times as you have stones (unlike dyes).

They REALLY need to fix this system.  The rest of the game is based on completion and collection, so I don’t know why the item system isn’t.  

They should first add a new menu where you can ‘extract’ looks and store/access them just like the dye system.  Organize them by set type, and individual looks.

Then, add an additional, semi-invisible (visible only when applying a look, and after the look is applied), slot into each item that will store the specified ‘look.’

Now, require the use of a transmutation stone to imbue the ‘look’ into the slot.  

The only thing this will change in regards to mechanics is that it will either…

1)   Allow someone to apply the same item look to multiple items via the use of multiple transmutation stones


Or

2)   Allow the player to only apply 1 item type to 1 armor (then it would grey out that item from the menu system until you remove it, delete the item or sell it).

Either or is fine with me…But the current system HAS to change.The premise is 'good,' but the implementation is just bad.

Edited by Leyana, 10 September 2012 - 11:53 PM.
Copy paste broke


#2 Ramei Arashi

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 04:50 PM

My complaint is that achievement chests keep giving me the stones.  I have 18 already don't think I'll be needing any more.

#3 BloatedGuppy

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 04:52 PM

View PostRamei Arashi, on 10 September 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

My complaint is that achievement chests keep giving me the stones.  I have 18 already don't think I'll be needing any more.

The level 80 ones, or the level 1-79 ones?

I have about 25 of the level 80 ones from random chests, but the level 1-79 ones I've got close to 60, despite using many.

#4 Cursor

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 04:53 PM

So...you're asking for the transmogrificastion system from WoW?  But like, with stones instead of a vendor?

#5 GrandmaFunk

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 04:54 PM

I find the transmutation system is quite simple to understand and does exactly what I want and expect.

I don't really get what OP means by "losing the color"?

also, this might be cause by a simple confusion, the stones aren't just to apply a skin to an object but to combine the caracteristics of two objects.

#6 DrunkenMadKing

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 04:56 PM

View Postfr0st2k, on 10 September 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

Snip

My primary and highest complaint on Transmutation stones are this:

The skin easily reverts back to the old skin.  I have had several things that would keep the skin I wanted anything for 1-5 days only to have it revert back to the hated skin.  It still says transmuted.  So now I am out the skin and the stone....

I had a whisper rifle skin that I liked by buying it off the Trade post.  Now I can't find any of those skins and my rifle has reverted back to the hated blunderbuss skin.

I hate that skin but the gun had better stats.  Now I can't trust transmutation stones since not just 1 time by now 3 times the skin reverts back.   That is bull.  Lose money, stone, and skin with the system.

I have put in tickets on this but have heard nothing back nor do I expect I will.

#7 Cursor

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 04:56 PM

View PostGrandmaFunk, on 10 September 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

I find the transmutation system is quite simple to understand and does exactly what I want and expect.

I don't really get what OP means by "losing the color"?

also, this might be cause by a simple confusion, the stones aren't just to apply a skin to an object but to combine the caracteristics of two objects.

I think he means item name color, which denotes rarity.  I'm not actually sure how that really works, though.  Never investigated it.

And also, you make an extremely good point.  They're affect more than just cosmetic items, which is something a lot of people complaining about stones tend to forget.

#8 fr0st2k

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:00 PM

View PostGrandmaFunk, on 10 September 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

I find the transmutation system is quite simple to understand and does exactly what I want and expect.

I don't really get what OP means by "losing the color"?

also, this might be cause by a simple confusion, the stones aren't just to apply a skin to an object but to combine the caracteristics of two objects.

I disagree...the only thing the stone does is add the model of one item to the stats of another.  AKA: It changes the model.

By change color, i mean, it changes the rarity color of the sword.

For example. I used a stone with my pirate greatsword and my current weapon.  The pirate greatsword was a gold/yellow rarity, but when I used the stone, it reset to a normal blue (the color of the sword with the stats I wanted).

Suddenly, my neat pirate greatsword was reduced to a crappy blue, which can easily be sold.  And then i'd be down 10k karma.

How ANYONE sane could say this is a good system is beyond me.

#9 Gilles VI

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:00 PM

View PostRamei Arashi, on 10 September 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

My complaint is that achievement chests keep giving me the stones.  I have 18 already don't think I'll be needing any more.

68 here.. :( and 24 fine ones..

#10 Drachasor

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:01 PM

I proposed a Cosmetic Tab shortly after they announced t-stones.  Instead of placing items in it, you'd have drop-down menues for each appearance slot.  You would use a store-bought "crystal"* to add the appearance of one item to the tab.  This would not destroy the item, but would destroy the crystal.  You could then select the item via the drop-down window and dye it however you wish.  With multiple crystals you could add an item multiple times to have multiple preset dye schemes if you wished.  Ideally could could save various combinations of selected appearances to easily switch between them.

This would mean that if you got one full set of stat gear, then you wouldn't need to get multiple full sets for each appearance you liked.  So rather than get stat + appearance for each look, you just get the stat gear once and for each look you want you'd get a set of that.  Getting multiple stat gear seems quite grindy to me and is not appealing.  It would also save on inventory space.

I'd pay for this.  I won't pay for the t-stone system though.  Of course, when I proposed this I was largely attacked.  : (

*Since obviously such a system couldn't use existing t-stones.

Edited by Drachasor, 10 September 2012 - 05:05 PM.


#11 Gilles VI

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:03 PM

View Postfr0st2k, on 10 September 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

I disagree...the only thing the stone does is add the model of one item to the stats of another.  AKA: It changes the model.

By change color, i mean, it changes the rarity color of the sword.

For example. I used a stone with my pirate greatsword and my current weapon.  The pirate greatsword was a gold/yellow rarity, but when I used the stone, it reset to a normal blue (the color of the sword with the stats I wanted).

Suddenly, my neat pirate greatsword was reduced to a crappy blue, which can easily be sold.  And then i'd be down 10k karma.

How ANYONE sane could say this is a good system is beyond me.

The color doesnt add a freaking thing to the stats.. And I think every transmutated item is soulbound anyway..

View PostDrachasor, on 10 September 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

I proposed a Cosmetic Tab shortly after they announced t-stones.  Instead of placing items in it, you'd have drop-down menues for each appearance slot.  You would use a store-bought stone to add the appearance of one item to the tab.  This would not destroy the item, but would destroy the stone.  You could then select the item via the drop-down window and dye it however you wish.  With multiple stones you could add an item multiple times to have multiple preset dye schemes if you wished.  Ideally could could save various combinations of selected appearances to easily switch between them.

This would mean that if you got one full set of stat gear, then you wouldn't need to get multiple full sets for each appearance you liked.  So rather than get stat + appearance for each look, you just get the stat gear once and for each look you want you'd get a set of that.  Getting multiple stat gear seems quite grindy to me and is not appealing.  It would also save on inventory space.

I'd pay for this.  I won't pay for the t-stone system though.  Of course, when I proposed this I was largely attacked.  : (

You really dopn't need to pay for stones, just play the game, and as in my post above, you will already drown in a mass of stones.

#12 Warmaster Bacon

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:04 PM

Rly? I have like 15 lvl 80 ones, but used up all of my basic ones.

#13 Eliirae

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:06 PM

You can transmute the look of an item several times already.  Just Transmute the item you already have transmuted with a new item.  You're not locked into transmuting once per item.

And since that's out of the way, the only thing left is "my colors!  I can't show off how super leet I am!" well, there's no compare system, so it doesn't matter if your items are white or orange, because nobody is constantly comparing their armor with yours like in WoW where if you don't have all purples you're apparently subhuman.

#14 fr0st2k

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:06 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 10 September 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

The color doesnt add a freaking thing to the stats.. And I think every transmutated item is soulbound anyway..

thats not the point...The point is that the system currently implemented requires you to manage item appearances in your inventory  which is clunky and just plain bad.

At the very LEAST add a 'collectors' tab for item that have been transmuted.

#15 Drachasor

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:06 PM

View PostGilles VI, on 10 September 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

You really dopn't need to pay for stones, just play the game, and as in my post above, you will already drown in a mass of stones.

Edited my original post to make it clearer.  Obviously if the system I described was implemented it couldn't use t-stones (I don't think).  And a good part of my point was that such a system would be worth a lot more to me than the existing crappy t-stone system.

#16 fr0st2k

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:07 PM

View PostEliirae, on 10 September 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

You can transmute the look of an item several times already.  Just Transmute the item you already have transmuted with a new item.  You're not locked into transmuting once per item.

And since that's out of the way, the only thing left is "my colors!  I can't show off how super leet I am!" well, there's no compare system, so it doesn't matter if your items are white or orange, because nobody is constantly comparing their armor with yours like in WoW where if you don't have all purples you're apparently subhuman.

oh god.

#17 Eliirae

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:07 PM

Also, maybe find a better way to suggest opinions than saying everything is "awful" because you don't like it.  The system is just fine and has all the functions you need, aside from keeping your super leet orange name color

#18 fr0st2k

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:10 PM

View PostEliirae, on 10 September 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Also, maybe find a better way to suggest opinions than saying everything is "awful" because you don't like it.  The system is just fine and has all the functions you need, aside from keeping your super leet orange name color

and cluttering my inventory...

and not giving me an easy way to manage all the skins

add in the fact that the entire end game is based on collecting armor looks...

yes, its AWFUL

#19 Drachasor

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:14 PM

View Postfr0st2k, on 10 September 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

and cluttering my inventory...

and not giving me an easy way to manage all the skins

And the fact if you want multiple appearances you have to get stat gear multiple times.  If I want to have another way to look, why can't I just get that appearance?  Why do I have to get ANOTHER set of stat gear for it?  Clunky and tedious.

#20 Eliirae

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:15 PM

View Postfr0st2k, on 10 September 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

and cluttering my inventory...

and not giving me an easy way to manage all the skins

add in the fact that the entire end game is based on collecting armor looks...

yes, its AWFUL

Inventory - One spot taken up by transmutation stones.  Or store them in the bank until you need them.  You aren't holding onto a million different sets of armor with different looks so you can transmutate stuff constantly, are you?  Because then the problem lies with you, not then system

Managing skins -  The system is meant to keep the look of an armor you like from a lower level all the way to 80, or if you can afford it, get the look of a level 80 armor at a lower level.  I don't believe it was ever advertised as pokemon cards but with armor skins.

"end game" - Bank.

The problem seems to lie with you, not with the system.

#21 Blackmetal

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:18 PM

I love how much time op wasted to write this post. By far the easiest and most efficient way of reskinning items I've seen in an MMO yet. Go back to your other games kid.

#22 Linfang

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:21 PM

just make a costume tab, availible through the cash shop.

Add the armor you want to show on your character, including town clothes to appear in and out of combat.

Dump transmutation

#23 grimmer

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:27 PM

i am really glad the system is in place actually. really simple to use and i always have enough stones from chests and the gem store.

i'm not quite sure what you mean about losing items. i am super picky about armor remaining simple (a la lvl 5 looking stuff) so i use A LOT of these stones and i've never lost a piece of armor. nor does the dye change.

#24 Drachasor

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:27 PM

View PostBlackmetal, on 10 September 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

I love how much time op wasted to write this post. By far the easiest and most efficient way of reskinning items I've seen in an MMO yet. Go back to your other games kid.

Ah yes, this reminds me of my thread from back when T-stones were announced.  It's the classic "Anet did it this way, so stop complaining!" with a bit of "This is better than anything else, so how dare you suggest ways it could be better!" and sometimes these are slightly varied in the form of "Just be happy you got anything at all!"

But I don't feel such positions add much to the discussion.  The OP certainly suggested a system that would be superior (and, imho, so did I).

Edited by Drachasor, 10 September 2012 - 05:28 PM.


#25 grimmer

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:29 PM

View PostLinfang, on 10 September 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

just make a costume tab, availible through the cash shop.

Add the armor you want to show on your character, including town clothes to appear in and out of combat.

Dump transmutation

had no idea this even EXISTED. this would be perfect for me. thanks, mate!

#26 Drachasor

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:29 PM

View PostLinfang, on 10 September 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

just make a costume tab, availible through the cash shop.

Add the armor you want to show on your character, including town clothes to appear in and out of combat.

Dump transmutation

I would propose an improvement to this (oh wait, I already did).  Instead of placing items directly in the tab, you use a Crystal on them.  This adds the item to a drop-down menu in the costume tab.  That way you always have the appearance available and don't have to clutter your inventory.

#27 turbo234

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:32 PM

What he means by losing color, is the rarity. Whatever rarity the stats you're taking from will determine what rarity the new transmutation will end up. Honestly, I could care less, no one sees that. There is nothing wrong with the system, and this seems like you're butthurt you couldn't keep the rarity of an item.

#28 Vlak

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:32 PM

I don't know what we're complaining about. The stones are doing exactly what they were designed to do. You get more than enough of them through completion chests. If you need more you can convert gold to gems. You should always be double checking your combination before 100% following through.

Case closed.

#29 Drachasor

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:36 PM

View PostVlak, on 10 September 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

I don't know what we're complaining about. The stones are doing exactly what they were designed to do. You get more than enough of them through completion chests. If you need more you can convert gold to gems. You should always be double checking your combination before 100% following through.

Yes, they do what they were designed to.  That doesn't mean that design is the best or even a good one.  Better than nothing doesn't mean good, and certainly doesn't mean great.  This thread goes over a number of problems with it since you somhow missed the OPs original and subsequent posts (as well as mine).

Case decidedly not closed.

#30 Futabot

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 05:37 PM

I doubt they'll make the system like transmog because it is, in fact, consumable based. You're kinda' stuck with the whole, "Well, there goes the base item."

Also, I just realized OP repeated himself, haha.




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