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All-Purpose Mesmer Build PvE


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#1 LordSpectreX

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:56 PM

http://gw2skills.net...wxijDHJOLQGEspA

The goal of this build is to provide as much use to as many situations as possible. You use the Greatsword for it's AoE and kiting abilities and then switch to the Sword + Pistol for CQC.

Solo Vs 1 Weak Enemy

For effectively killing weak regular enemies in your way, use GS4 and run up to the opponent with GS2, giving yourself might stacks. Switch to the Sword/Pistol when you're near the enemy and S3 > S2 him. S1 til dead, using P5 to interupt attacks.

Against a ranged enemy, use Feedback while running towards them to mitigate distance damage.

Solo Vs 1 Strong Enemy

Use GS2 and GS4 to slow and damage the enemy. keep walking to max range using GS1. Use GS2 whenever it's off it's short 6 1/2 second CD, and use GS4 as soon as the previous phantasm does an attack. The Berserker phantasm has a very slow activation rate, so timing your summons will increase it's DPS by quite a bit.

Once it gets bored of your Illiusions and heads towards you, walk back with dodge rolls to get more clones out and kite it more. Use GS5 if it's suspectible to CC to get more space. Once it catches up to you and your CDs are pretty much down, use Phantasmal Defender before it gets to you. Quickly switch to Sword/Pistol and use S2 or P5 to stop the incoming attack. Dodge Roll back and use P4 into S3 to get a Phantasm and 2 Clones out. Continue to use carefully timed S2 and P5 followed up with Phantasmal Defender to lower the enemy's damage.

Solo Vs Mob

Mobs are very managable with this build, but you'll have to manage your spacing carefully.

Use GS2 + GS4 on the closest enemy and use Feedback on ranged mobs. Kite with the GS like normal. when they all get fairly close, use GS5 to push them back. Now, walk to the side of the knocked down enemies. This causes them to run in thin pack towards you. When they gather up, use GS3 and Dodge Roll back to get some space. Switch to Sword/Pistol and use S2 plus S1 Cleave to AoE them til death.

Why not Focus? - The more I use focus, the less and less I like it. Yeah it does a huge amount of AoE damage, but it's just too damn squishy. If it gets destroyed, you suddenly have very little DPS. Combine that with the move's extremely long CD having to go into 20 Illusions just to get Phantasmal Haste, it's not worth it. iDuelist gives great single target damage, and is a lot more survivable, along with being fairly spammable. The wall speed boost is nice, but GS already has the kiting abilities that you want, and 'Into the Void' is random and when following my tactic, actually seperates enemies more than clumping them together.

Dynamic Events

The area many Mesmers have problems with. The situation where we need DPS, not Survivability (usually anyway) in order to get drops from enemies.

The fact is, Mesmers simply do not have the AoE damage capabilities to tag every mob for enough damage. It's not going to happen, so just accept it. The next best thing is to do a high  amount of damage to a small pack of mobs. So you are guaranteed to get some credit and likely a Gold.

Same process as usual, get out your GS and use 2, 3 and 4. Generally don't use 5 since it unclumps the mobs, but if you've aggro'd an unnatural amount, feel free to do so for the sake of surviving. Once all your skills are on CD, switch to Sword/Pistol and unload onto the biggest clump of enemies. Use iDuelist on a far away enemy (usually ranged) with Feedback to wipe them out. Remember that only the first two attacks of the S1 cleave, and the third one is a stab. Use 2 S1 attacks, then follow up with S2 and P5 before restarting the AA combo. Once the GS skills are off CD, switch to that and use those skills before going back to Sword/Pistols. This is one of the few times it's alright to use Greatsword close range, since you're purely using it for it's skills here.

You won't get every mob, but you'll get enough to certainly get Gold.

Dungeons

Trying to do DPS in Dungeons is kind of a fool's errand. You could spec to do a lot of raw damage, but it's competely pointless since other people are still going to have as much, if not more damage without having to give up so much.

You've got utility, and lots of it, with Feedback and Nullfield, both traited to last longer and recharge more often. The way you want to fight is generally similar to Dynamic Events, but since the enemies are generally tougher, you'll probably want to summon a Defender whenever it's off CD.

Feel free to switch Weapons and change the custom traits. You can, for expensive, switch out some traits for more Mind Whack based ones, equip a Scepter+Sword and check out clones for mind whack like nobody's business. Dungeons are situational based on a lot of things, and you'll have to base your build and choices around your teammates, the enemies and the environment to get the most optimal results.

---------------------------------

Heal -;
Ether Feast > You need a reliable heal.

Utility Choices -;
Feedback - Excellent vs Ranged mobs. Also provides a combo field.
Null Field - Gets rid of Conditions and deletes boons. Provides a combo field.
- Both are glamour so you can easily trait for them. You want to use these most of the time.
Phantasmal Defender - Makes up for your lack of tankiness. Since this isn't a mind whack build primarily, you can keep this out for a long time.
Signet of Illusions - Unfortunately, it kinda sucks because of how it's delayed. If they fix it, then this is a pretty viable choice.

Elite Choice
Time Warp.
Time Warp.
Time Warp
Mo-Time Warp.

Stat Priority -;
Precision > Power > Crit Damage > Condition Duration > Vitality/Toughness = Condition Damage.

Any suggestions would be nice.

Edited by LordSpectreX, 10 September 2012 - 09:57 PM.


#2 jgm

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:11 PM

If you're after more AoE then you should use focus rather than pistol for your offhand.  The additional damage from your warden is pretty big, especially if traited right, and works equally well against bosses as clusters of smaller targets.

#3 NeonSharkBall1000

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:24 PM

Wow looks almost identical to my build!

A few notes:
1.  it appears that Phantasmal Fury is currently bugged, in that it overwrites the retaliation Phantasms get from Vengeful Images.  I like Precision Training instead.
2.  I use Greatsword/5 to push packs of enemies OUT of other players' AOE to give myself more of a chance to tag them with enough damage.
3.  Because you're running Defender in your 3rd utility (I often use +cond damage signet, instead), you'll always have plenty of illusions out.  You don't need deceptive evasion.  I'd go -5 Dueling and +5 Inspiration, and take Medic's Feedback.  On the other hand, if you really like deceptive evasion, then keep it and go +5 dueling and -5 inspiration instead, and definately take the +cond damage signet instead of defender.
4.  For normal PvE/WvWing, I like the Hounds of Balth for my elite.  i only use timewarp for speedclearing explore mode dungeons.

But all in all it looks great.. like I said nearly identical to mine.

#4 LordSpectreX

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:53 PM

View PostNeonSharkBall1000, on 10 September 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

2.  I use Greatsword/5 to push packs of enemies OUT of other players' AOE to give myself more of a chance to tag them with enough damage.

Dick move. But I respect that.

Quote

3.  Because you're running Defender in your 3rd utility (I often use +cond damage signet, instead), you'll always have plenty of illusions out.  You don't need deceptive evasion.  I'd go -5 Dueling and +5 Inspiration, and take Medic's Feedback.  On the other hand, if you really like deceptive evasion, then keep it and go +5 dueling and -5 inspiration instead, and definately take the +cond damage signet instead of defender.

I don't think I could accept getting rid of defender. Without that, 1 or 2 aas in Sword range will kill you. Defender gives you enough time to react and get away. I could replace the duelist points.

Quote

4.  For normal PvE/WvWing, I like the Hounds of Balth for my elite.  i only use timewarp for speedclearing explore mode dungeons.

Never tried HoB. I'll have to give them a go.

View Postjgm, on 10 September 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

If you're after more AoE then you should use focus rather than pistol for your offhand.  The additional damage from your warden is pretty big, especially if traited right, and works equally well against bosses as clusters of smaller targets.

The focus dies too easily and has too long of a cooldown to be that useful or reliable. If Signet of Illusions wasn't bugged, MAYBE they could work. Besides, the point of the build is not AoE. It's versatility. Focus Phantasm is kinda counter-intuitive to that idea.

Edited by LordSpectreX, 10 September 2012 - 09:57 PM.


#5 Majic

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 03:22 AM

View PostNeonSharkBall1000, on 10 September 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

2.  I use Greatsword/5 to push packs of enemies OUT of other players' AOE to give myself more of a chance to tag them with enough damage.

Ah HA! So you're the guy who does that. Why do I always seem to run into you when I play my Warrior? :P

#6 Rhynocerous

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 03:51 AM

Why would you take the sword if you're not going for damage? The survivability it offers can be compensated for by just not being in melee range.

#7 LordSpectreX

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 04:03 AM

View PostRhynocerous, on 11 September 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

Why would you take the sword if you're not going for damage? The survivability it offers can be compensated for by just not being in melee range.

I am going for damage. When did I say otherwise?

Edited by LordSpectreX, 11 September 2012 - 04:05 AM.


#8 Zun

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 05:04 AM

Remember you can change your elite skill between each fights :
- for solo, i'd rather use stealth or hounds of balthazar.
- for dungeons, some bosses can be turned to moas, some don't. For those who can, it's often better to completely shutdown them for a few secs.

Otherwise, I'd get 5 points back from dueling (I really don't think deceptive evasion is needed in a phantasm build) and 5 from illusions, putting those 10 points in Domination. You'll loose 20% cooldown on your illusions, but will instead gain the possibility to go for a mantra spec (Domination XI, Inspiration IV and X) when needed : most of solo (massive condition removal is priceless in Orr), parts of dungeons where a bit of heal is more useful than your glamour being traited.

#9 Deviija

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 05:06 AM

I do the knockback on GS, too.  But, er, not for tagging purposes.  I do it when someone is getting overwhelmed by enemies, or their health is dropping low and they can't seem to get away, etc.  :3

#10 LordSpectreX

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 05:10 AM

Huh. I never really thought about making a Phantasm build that is customisable with Mantras.

#11 Ojo

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 06:14 PM

I'm not sure I would take Desperate Decoy over Phantasmal Fury.  Getting a clone at 25% health just doesn't seem that valuable vs fury on your phantasms.

Edited by Ojo, 11 September 2012 - 06:14 PM.


#12 Vento

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 06:40 PM

View PostLordSpectreX, on 10 September 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

The goal of this build is to provide as much use to as many situations as possible. You use the Greatsword for it's AoE and kiting abilities

I'm so glad you aren't one of the people who say GS = single-target because the auto-attack isn't AOE

#13 LordSpectreX

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:06 PM

View PostOjo, on 11 September 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

I'm not sure I would take Desperate Decoy over Phantasmal Fury.  Getting a clone at 25% health just doesn't seem that valuable vs fury on your phantasms.

I didn't take Desperate Decoy and I took Phantasmal Fury. I have no idea what you're on about.

#14 Ojo

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:16 PM

View PostLordSpectreX, on 11 September 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

I didn't take Desperate Decoy and I took Phantasmal Fury. I have no idea what you're on about.

I must have confused the tab I opened with your build in it.  Oops!  Someone had it and it didn't seem like a good choice.

Edited by Ojo, 11 September 2012 - 08:16 PM.


#15 Ben Delat

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 10:05 AM

Love your build LordSpectreX, I myself have something similar going on but with not so insignificant differences, tell me what you think..

http://gw2skills.net...WyukbJ5SLQGdspA

I played a tanked up Staff build all the way up to level 80 but have recently switched to the greatsword - sword/pistol combo we see here - I'm liking it a lot so far

Many ppl have complained about mesmers in DEs not being able to tag for kills quick enough, I don't have that problem here -

To highlight one way our builds differ, I love to wrack the hell out my clones/phantasms to help achieve the required dmg to tag kills-

For instance - Berseker into a group of enemies - GS2 to follow, then wrack the 2 will deal significant dmg and should tag almost everything -

This is also why I have a bit of clone factory going on with mirror images - It could be argued that I perhaps loose a bit of long term dmg by not keeping my phantasms up for long before I shatter everything, however, I make up for that with having more options to create clones, less down time between shatters etc - More clones also improves surviabilty, more distractions -

I also have more of an emphasis on condition dmg, as opposed to your emphasis on vitality and phantasmal dmg -

I opted for the rune of rata sum, mainly because it was cheap, but the poison is not insignicant, if fact poison is very good, combined with the mega amount of bleed stacks we can generate, it's just another way to deal a lot of dmg. - For this reason, I have sacficed the a 5% crit chance on your build for the superior sigil of doom - Inflicting poison on my first greatsword attack everytime I switch to it, is pretty darn good - GS5 on a mob anyone - The rata sum rune increaes the poison duration to boot -

I also went with the extra bounce trait for GS2, more might stacks, more coverage, more vulnerabilty etc..

To sum up:

You phantasms deal more dmg, but I Wrack far more

You have a higher crit chance, where I spread more conditions and deal more condition dmg

You have higher survivabilty, however, I create more clones which can be agured to be psedo survivabilty in and of itself -

Conclusion:

No idea - who deals more dmg, who will survive more?

I feel that my build may contain some unnecessary redundancy and will be trying you build out as it looks really good - Nice work

#16 Nemhy

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 11:47 AM

View PostZun, on 11 September 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

Remember you can change your elite skill between each fights :
- for solo, i'd rather use stealth or hounds of balthazar.
- for dungeons, some bosses can be turned to moas, some don't. For those who can, it's often better to completely shutdown them for a few secs.

Otherwise, I'd get 5 points back from dueling (I really don't think deceptive evasion is needed in a phantasm build) and 5 from illusions, putting those 10 points in Domination. You'll loose 20% cooldown on your illusions, but will instead gain the possibility to go for a mantra spec (Domination XI, Inspiration IV and X) when needed : most of solo (massive condition removal is priceless in Orr), parts of dungeons where a bit of heal is more useful than your glamour being traited.

I'm very interested...Is this what you currently use for dungeons?  How does it work exactly?  What's your stat priority for such a build?

Edited by Nemhy, 12 September 2012 - 11:47 AM.


#17 LordSpectreX

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 08:15 PM

View PostBen Delat, on 12 September 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

You phantasms deal more dmg, but I Wrack far more

The problem I have with Mind Whack is that I find it runs counter-intuitive to phantasms, especially the ones we're using. You want phantasms out, but they can take a lot less beating. I find when I run this kind of build, the phantasms just die before they can reach the enemy, either because of the bosses' huge aoe or because of all the attacks coming from a large mob. The only time I feel Mind Whack is optimal is when it's a small mob of 2-3. Granted, that is the most common enemy type, but as I said before, the goal of my build is versatility. I don't feel Mind Whack does that when it reduces my Single Target DPS, and only increases my AOE DPS when GS does a fine job of that already.

Also, I vastly prefer Distortion (F4), because it's (near) instant and gives me survivability.

View PostBen Delat, on 12 September 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

You have a higher crit chance, where I spread more conditions and deal more condition dmg

I do like this part. And I'll probably adapt to some of it. I think the whole Poison Switching and if enemies kill clones they get status effects is a really good idea.  Though I do have a question, does the Sigil of Doom affect either;

1. Only the Skill 1.
2. Any Skill but only on the first target.
3. Any skills and if it hits multiple opponents.

View PostBen Delat, on 12 September 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

You have higher survivabilty, however, I create more clones which can be agured to be psedo survivabilty in and of itself -

TBH, neither of those things really gives us survivability. The real survivability of the Mesmer comes from kiting, dodging, a command stun (P5) and a 2 Second Distortion (S2). I can't agree with having no points into Inspiration at all however. Medic's Feedback/Glamour Mastery are extremely good.

------------------------------------

Alright, here's my new build.

http://gw2skills.net...WyukbJ5SrOGdsrA

The minor trait in Illusions, the 20% CD on Illusion Summons, does not stack with the CD from the Weapon Masteries. This means only GS3,GS5 get longer cooldowns, while S3 and P4 get quicker CDs. So, I took off Greatsword Mastery for Crippling Dissipation.

Edited by LordSpectreX, 13 September 2012 - 08:36 PM.


#18 SuburbanLion

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 09:24 PM

This is very similar to my build as well.  The only differences are that I went with Focus instead of Pistol, and took Medic's Feedback/Warden's Feedback in Inspiration.  I also prefer Mirror as my heal and alternate between Blink/Portal in the 3rd Utility slot. These changes are probably a result of me spending most of my time in WvW where the projectile reflection is just too awesome to pass up.

I agree with the OP that going with a 20/20/0/25/5 split provides some nice flexibility.  You can use something like the OP's spec for dungeons then make a few changes to get a nice WvW spec without having to retrain.

There are a lot of nice changes you might do depending on the situation. Here are some ideas to get you going:
1) You can swap in Crippling Dissipation if you know you're fighting a lot of melee mobs and are taking too much damage
2) You can take Restorative Mantras and MoR if your group needs some extra healing.
3) Swap Phantasmal Fury for Blade Training when underwater for the spear bonus (or in general until the Fury/Retaliation bug is fixed)
4) Swap Phantasmal Fury for Desperate Decoy and Phantasmal Defender for Decoy then you've got a nice sPvP build to work with.
5) Against foes with lots of boons, you can take Rending Shatter/Vigorous Revelations for loads of boon removal.

#19 Harper

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 02:34 PM

I'm liking this setup as well.  I was using Staff and Sword/Sword before, but I found I either went staff only or sword/sword only depending on the fight.  Neither selection was ideal for kiting.  The Greatsword makes a much better kiting weapon, though I do miss the Chaos Storm ability.

--Harper

#20 LordSpectreX

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 08:31 AM

View PostHarper, on 14 September 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

I'm liking this setup as well.  I was using Staff and Sword/Sword before, but I found I either went staff only or sword/sword only depending on the fight.  Neither selection was ideal for kiting.  The Greatsword makes a much better kiting weapon, though I do miss the Chaos Storm ability.

--Harper

Losing Chaos Storm does make me sad. But doing lots of WvW lately has only assured me that this build works so much better.

It's so amazing to call an iBerserker on a Fortress wall and watch as they do 50% HP to all the Rangers sniping off there.

#21 jondifool

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 09:27 AM

View PostNeonSharkBall1000, on 10 September 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:


2.  I use Greatsword/5 to push packs of enemies OUT of other players' AOE to give myself more of a chance to tag them with enough damage.


I don't know if its because i am not exp and loot greedy enough but i have never thought of this, and writing this i just realise that fokus/4 can be used the same way.
But i think this is actual a strong testemony to how broken DE's is from a mesmer point of view. When anyone can feel a reason to resort to moves like this, something is really really broken.

#22 Zun

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 10:13 AM

View Postjondifool, on 15 September 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

I don't know if its because i am not exp and loot greedy enough but i have never thought of this, and writing this i just realise that fokus/4 can be used the same way.
But i think this is actual a strong testemony to how broken DE's is from a mesmer point of view. When anyone can feel a reason to resort to moves like this, something is really really broken.

When you're trying to farm DEs (for money, not karma), and you have 4-5 Ele spamming their meteor shower, that's pretty much the only thing you can do if you wanna tag a few mobs.

#23 LordSpectreX

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 10:21 AM

Or you could just GS2/GS4+S2.

Tagging most of the mobs isn't difficult once you stop trying to get all of them.

#24 jondifool

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 12:15 PM

View PostLordSpectreX, on 15 September 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

Or you could just GS2/GS4+S2.

Tagging most of the mobs isn't difficult once you stop trying to get all of them.
And that works sometimes but for sure it does often not do the job. And its is actual just since the last patch that GS had come back in use for me, since its other skills was ridicolous slow to use.
And for the part of tagging all of the mobs, you have to realise that this is simply not whats going on. It is NOT the issue that other mesmers are too gready and struggle because of that, thats really to underestimate your fellow mesmer players.

#25 Rhynocerous

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 08:30 PM

View PostLordSpectreX, on 11 September 2012 - 04:03 AM, said:

I am going for damage. When did I say otherwise?

Quote

Trying to do DPS in Dungeons is kind of a fool's errand.

Dungeons are the hard PvE areas.

#26 Nemhy

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 01:20 AM

I noticed your updated build. do you find it better than the one in the first post? what are your primary stats?

#27 Kelthien

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 01:46 AM

Just a quick note: I think the illusion cooldown does stack with the weapon cooldown.  The tooltips don't update, but the in-game cooldown timer is affected.

#28 Maal

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:10 AM

View PostZun, on 15 September 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

When you're trying to farm DEs (for money, not karma), and you have 4-5 Ele spamming their meteor shower, that's pretty much the only thing you can do if you wanna tag a few mobs.
Imo that's the system that is broken. The orr zerg should be made impossible, as all the other mindless farming zerg.

#29 LordSpectreX

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 10:29 PM

View PostRhynocerous, on 15 September 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

Dungeons are the hard PvE areas.

I don't care. Dungeons is not about having the highest Solo DPS. Mesmer played properly can shut down the enemies damage and increases your allies' DPS. I complete dungeons with my guildmates faster and safer than any other class they could have put in my place, with perhaps the exception of a DPSspeced guardian.

This build is about damage, but that doesn't I mean I tunnel that and think about nothing else.

View PostNemhy, on 16 September 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

I noticed your updated build. do you find it better than the one in the first post? what are your primary stats?

I believe it's more well-rounded. That build is good for all Levels of PvE, sPvP and WvW. The original build is better for Solo PvE, but not by enough.

View PostKelthien, on 16 September 2012 - 01:46 AM, said:

Just a quick note: I think the illusion cooldown does stack with the weapon cooldown.  The tooltips don't update, but the in-game cooldown timer is affected.

You can just count like I did. I tried GS2, P4 and GS4 with and without both abilities, they never went less than the regular 20% CDR.

Edited by LordSpectreX, 16 September 2012 - 10:35 PM.


#30 Strange

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:50 AM

View PostLordSpectreX, on 16 September 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

I don't care. Dungeons is not about having the highest Solo DPS. Mesmer played properly can shut down the enemies damage and increases your allies' DPS. I complete dungeons with my guildmates faster and safer than any other class they could have put in my place, with perhaps the exception of a DPSspeced guardian.

This build is about damage, but that doesn't I mean I tunnel that and think about nothing else.



I believe it's more well-rounded. That build is good for all Levels of PvE, sPvP and WvW. The original build is better for Solo PvE, but not by enough.



You can just count like I did. I tried GS2, P4 and GS4 with and without both abilities, they never went less than the regular 20% CDR.


Or you can record video and confirm that GS2 and GS4 can have 8s=>4.8s and 20s=>12s cooldown reduction







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