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Ranger short bow speed needs to be nerfed.


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#1 Direblade

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 11:39 AM

it is'nt a bow its a freaking machine gun, the bow alone is too fast but when used with haste with a full condition build... its just totally and utterly overpowered.

It needs to be toned down back to how it was in beta.

#2 Skolops

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:20 PM

View PostDireblade, on 11 September 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

it is'nt a bow its a freaking machine gun, the bow alone is too fast but when used with haste with a full condition build... its just totally and utterly overpowered.

It needs to be toned down back to how it was in beta.

No, it doesn't.  At least half of the shots from a shortbow don't even land if you're even a moderate distance away because, in spite of the rate of fire, they still travel fairly slowly.  Even at close range, you can "dodge" a great number of the shots simply by strafing back and forth.  

You might also try immobilizing the Ranger, getting behind him, and using whatever nuke skills you have. He'll very likely be dead before he has a chance to shoot his shortbow at you anymore.

#3 thedeapee

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:22 PM

Yeah it does, I don't think I've ever beaten a ranger 1v1.  Of course I know the least about them.  What is that spell where they pretty much immobilize you forever?  You can't attack the roots, it just says obstructed...so no clue what to do but die there.

#4 Skolops

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:29 PM

View Postthedeapee, on 11 September 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

Yeah it does, I don't think I've ever beaten a ranger 1v1.  Of course I know the least about them.  What is that spell where they pretty much immobilize you forever?  You can't attack the roots, it just says obstructed...so no clue what to do but die there.

Virtually everyone - ranger and non-ranger - agrees that the ranger as a profession is in a fairly bad spot right now.  They're certainly stronger one on one, but they melt in a team fight.  Practice more and get better, because rangers are by no means anything more than average, right now, if not underpowered.  

The degree to which you simply don't understand what you're fighting against is shown in your comment that you can't attack the roots, because you can. :)  Not only does the ability tooltip say you need to attack the roots, but I have attacked the roots plenty of times when it has been done to me, and most people I have done it to have attacked the roots.  They actually die fairly quickly to anyone with a moderate or higher amount of power in their builds, and if you're running a condition build then you should probably have the defense to survive while you chop them down - if not, your problem is that you're a glass cannon, not with the ability.

That isn't to say it isn't strong - it is.  It's an elite skill, after all.  However, it's not as strong as you've gotten the impression of.  All I can think of is that it happened to you once that they were obstructed - due to a bug, or some strange positioning problem.  It can't be too common, though, as I've never ever seen anyone or had a problem myself with killing them.

Please understand that none of this is meant to be insulting or rude to you.  Just keep at it and you'll figure it out.

Edited by Skolops, 11 September 2012 - 12:37 PM.


#5 thedeapee

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:44 PM

Lol...go play a necro.  I'm pretty high on toughness and vitality...and i get melted by rangers.  Probably 90 percent of the time they are obstructed.  I have hit then, but they're immune to bleeds...genius.  and no, necros are nowhere near as tanky as they need to be.

#6 Skolops

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:51 PM

View Postthedeapee, on 11 September 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

Lol...go play a necro.  I'm pretty high on toughness and vitality...and i get melted by rangers.  Probably 90 percent of the time they are obstructed.  I have hit then, but they're immune to bleeds...genius.  and no, necros are nowhere near as tanky as they need to be.

Well, I could just as easily say to you that I've never beat a necro 1 v 1 so they must be OP.  They can stack conditions insanely quickly, so much so that even with the ability to clear my conditions twice I still can't keep up, and with all the lifestealing they're doing I just absolutely cannot get them below half health.  Add to that all the annoying CCs that I think their minions are doing  - they're coming from the necro in some fashion, in any case, and the absurd amount of toughness/vitality that they can carry while running a DPS build.  When I am in a power build, I can't outdamage their toughness fast enough to make up for the lifesteal, and when I'm running condition build, they have such an ability to shrug conditions off that it's crazy.

That doesn't mean I'm correct and that they are OP.  Nor does it mean that Rangers are because you think they are.

#7 Swiftly

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:56 PM

Necros toughness and vitality needs to be nerfed.

Calling for nerfs on an obviously unfinished class from a person that play another obviously unfinished class is very unproductive.

#8 thedeapee

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 01:08 PM

View PostSkolops, on 11 September 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:



Well, I could just as easily say to you that I've never beat a necro 1 v 1 so they must be OP.  They can stack conditions insanely quickly, so much so that even with the ability to clear my conditions twice I still can't keep up, and with all the lifestealing they're doing I just absolutely cannot get them below half health.  Add to that all the annoying CCs that I think their minions are doing  - they're coming from the necro in some fashion, in any case, and the absurd amount of toughness/vitality that they can carry while running a DPS build.  When I am in a power build, I can't outdamage their toughness fast enough to make up for the lifesteal, and when I'm running condition build, they have such an ability to shrug conditions off that it's crazy.

That doesn't mean I'm correct and that they are OP.  Nor does it mean that Rangers are because you think they are.

Lol you mean our siphon life that heals for like 50, doesn't increase with +healing, and when we trait it to be 50 more effective, it heals for 59.  I think you have us confused for guardians.

#9 Speno

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 01:09 PM

View PostDireblade, on 11 September 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

it is'nt a bow its a freaking machine gun, the bow alone is too fast but when used with haste with a full condition build... its just totally and utterly overpowered.

It needs to be toned down back to how it was in beta.

OP is just mad that rangers are decent 1v1, Not mentioning the thiefs and mesmers give us a great deal of trouble. Also does not mention that we are terrible in huge group battles if we are targeted which any smart tourney team will do. We are a not in a good state, we are decently balanced 1v1 but our pets are train wrecks and not working properly, lightning reflexes is broken still, we will break the stun but not evade backwards 85 percent of the time.

View Postthedeapee, on 11 September 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

Yeah it does, I don't think I've ever beaten a ranger 1v1.  Of course I know the least about them.  What is that spell where they pretty much immobilize you forever?  You can't attack the roots, it just says obstructed...so no clue what to do but die there.

Yeah I eat necro's alive usually unless they are very smart with there condition transfers, I have been absolutely embarrassed by a couple. But Spvp isn't about solo if your left to solo esp in a tourney your doing it wrong. Also the skill is entangle and you can 100 percent attack the roots, you just saying this shows you do not really understand our mechanics or class. When entangled you must destroy the roots to be able to move its a very long cool down elite skill.

View Postthedeapee, on 11 September 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

Lol...go play a necro.  I'm pretty high on toughness and vitality...and i get melted by rangers.  Probably 90 percent of the time they are obstructed.  I have hit then, but they're immune to bleeds...genius.  and no, necros are nowhere near as tanky as they need to be.

We are in no way immune to bleeds so again idk what you are talking about.

#10 thedeapee

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 01:10 PM

View PostSkolops, on 11 September 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:



Well, I could just as easily say to you that I've never beat a necro 1 v 1 so they must be OP.  They can stack conditions insanely quickly, so much so that even with the ability to clear my conditions twice I still can't keep up, and with all the lifestealing they're doing I just absolutely cannot get them below half health.  Add to that all the annoying CCs that I think their minions are doing  - they're coming from the necro in some fashion, in any case, and the absurd amount of toughness/vitality that they can carry while running a DPS build.  When I am in a power build, I can't outdamage their toughness fast enough to make up for the lifesteal, and when I'm running condition build, they have such an ability to shrug conditions off that it's crazy.

That doesn't mean I'm correct and that they are OP.  Nor does it mean that Rangers are because you think they are.

Lol you mean our siphon life that heals for like 50, doesn't increase with +healing, and when we trait it to be 50 more effective, it heals for 59.  I think you have us confused for guardians.

#11 Skolops

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 01:18 PM

View Postthedeapee, on 11 September 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

Lol you mean our siphon life that heals for like 50, doesn't increase with +healing, and when we trait it to be 50 more effective, it heals for 59.  I think you have us confused for guardians.

It should be healing you for a minimum of 450ish on each use.

Edited by Skolops, 11 September 2012 - 01:18 PM.


#12 Direblade

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 01:29 PM

i forgot to add, my char is a ranger level 40, condition- short bow spec.

#13 Arekkz

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 01:33 PM

I love how everyone's default response is "I can't beat this character, therefore they are OP". I'm a Necro, and I've beaten a Ranger 1v1, so clearly it's doable.

Perhaps before jumping to the conclusion that the class is OP and must be nerfed, so you can beat them without having to try too hard, you should take a look at your build; If you can't beat a Ranger 1v1, then perhaps you should change what you are doing, and build something that works.

#14 Solid_Gold

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 01:40 PM

No it doesn't.

Rangers always drew the short straw on GW1, pretty much ignored when it came to skill updates.

About time we had something that was half decent.

#15 Swiftly

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 01:48 PM

View PostSolid_Gold, on 11 September 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

No it doesn't.

Rangers always drew the short straw on GW1, pretty much ignored when it came to skill updates.

About time we had something that was half decent.

Completely agreed.  That is the reason I have avoided Rangers in GW2...

But it is like the Mafia, just when I think I am clear, they draw me back in.

#16 Chesire

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 01:49 PM

Longbow needs a buff since we're on the subject of bows. It's really horribad aside from the little burst you get from using Haste #3 and #2 together. I would wager that if the auto attack speed were slightly faster, it would be just fine.

#17 Speno

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 01:51 PM

View PostChesire, on 11 September 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

Longbow needs a buff since we're on the subject of bows. It's really horribad aside from the little burst you get from using Haste #3 and #2 together. I would wager that if the auto attack speed were slightly faster, it would be just fine.

This longbow is completely useless IMO. It had very little compared to the shortbow. But that does not mean the shortbow is not pretty balanced. You cannot call a weapon just plain out OP, without at least looking at the specs people are using.

#18 Direblade

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 02:02 PM

ok, let me elaborate on what i feel is overpowered, just the speed, the attack rate is way to high. the skills are fine, the condition stacking and damage is fine.... its all fine in all specs..


ITS JUST THE SPEED, its way too fast, it was slower in beta and alot more balanced, now at release its fires stupidly fast, so fast that it even looks comical...

Tone down the speed and it will be fine again.

#19 Skolops

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 02:14 PM

View PostDireblade, on 11 September 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

ok, let me elaborate on what i feel is overpowered, just the speed, the attack rate is way to high. the skills are fine, the condition stacking and damage is fine.... its all fine in all specs..


ITS JUST THE SPEED, its way too fast, it was slower in beta and alot more balanced, now at release its fires stupidly fast, so fast that it even looks comical...

Tone down the speed and it will be fine again.

The thing is, you're missing the point that even at that firing speed many of the arrows still miss, it is hard to consistently stack bleeds because of the flanking requirement, and it still does lower damage than other class' weapons.

Lowering the firing speed would only make it even worse.

For example, I have experimented with Rifle Warrior builds.  Now the Rifle, while firing more slowly, can more easily stack bleeds on a target because it does not require flanking and its shots reach the target more quickly.  If going for a power build, you can make a build with very reasonable survivability which is capable of hitting for 17K over the course of about 3 seconds.  The shortbow has absolutely nothing on it.

Other examples could be provided.  I personally think that as a whole, damage is far, far too high in this game and that it should be toned down across the board.  However, where this problem is concerned, the shortbow is towards the bottom of the list.

#20 Speno

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 03:06 PM

View PostSkolops, on 11 September 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

The thing is, you're missing the point that even at that firing speed many of the arrows still miss, it is hard to consistently stack bleeds because of the flanking requirement, and it still does lower damage than other class' weapons.

Lowering the firing speed would only make it even worse.

For example, I have experimented with Rifle Warrior builds.  Now the Rifle, while firing more slowly, can more easily stack bleeds on a target because it does not require flanking and its shots reach the target more quickly.  If going for a power build, you can make a build with very reasonable survivability which is capable of hitting for 17K over the course of about 3 seconds.  The shortbow has absolutely nothing on it.

Other examples could be provided.  I personally think that as a whole, damage is far, far too high in this game and that it should be toned down across the board.  However, where this problem is concerned, the shortbow is towards the bottom of the list.

He is also not taking into account if hes seeing quickening zypher which will make this bows rate of fire seem totally unreal.

#21 Skolops

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 03:15 PM

View PostSpeno, on 11 September 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

He is also not taking into account if hes seeing quickening zypher which will make this bows rate of fire seem totally unreal.

Probably, and the thing is that virtually every skill in the game is absurdly strong with quickness.  Like I said, I think there's entirely too much damage too quickly, and yes, shortbows with quickness and 100 blades with quickness and basically anything with quickness is a huge part of this.

#22 Dashel

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 03:44 PM

Increase projectile speed and lower rate of fire.
Longbow just increase projectile speed.

#23 Ponzio

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 05:04 PM

Overpowered? Ranger starts shooting > turn your reflection on > dead ranger

#24 Crash317

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 06:34 PM

Yeah, quickness + shortbow power/crit build does a lot of damage really quickly.  However, you may not be aware of the ranger's weaknesses, namely having no real way to break an immobilize, at least not very often.  This leaves them highly vulnerable to any bursty melee build like thieves, warriors and some guardians.  Necros aren't one of those classes.  That means unless you load up conditions onto the ranger and start line of sighting him, you're probably going to lose 1v1.  So rangers out in the open are a weakness to your class/build, but I'm sure you have strengths against other classes/builds.

90% of these OP posts tend to stem from a lack of knowledge surrounding the weaknesses that come with the strength.  Where we really have a problem is when a class/build has a strength with no adjoining weakness.  I feel there are a couple of these in other classses, but ranger power shortbow isn't one of them.  Play the class, get to know it, then comment.

Personally, I love this build/class.  I get to roam/float and really turn the tide of a 2v2 or 1v1 quickly, but I have to constantly be aware of my surroundings and have to be extremely vigilant whenever a thief, warrior or guardian is around so that I can evade his attacks and immobilizes, otherwise I'm toast.  It is high risk/high reward, whereas something like a heartseeker thief has high reward with very little risk when they can pop multiple stealths to get away if something goes wrong or they screw up.  As a ranger, I can't even break one immobilize.

Edited by Crash317, 11 September 2012 - 06:39 PM.


#25 Gemeril

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:25 PM

I think shortbows shouldn't benefit from the 20% faster skill recharge.  In this way, it would help LB stay competitive(although it requires getting the trait).  Right now, I'm happy with my LB damage but only when I have the 20% faster skill recharge trait.

#26 ZNICK

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:30 PM

Before you complain about shortbow and the few seconds of speed from quickening zephyr, take a look at the warrior hasted when he hits us 3-5 times in a second and takes us from 100% HP to throwing stones in a blink of an eye...

Z

#27 Quested

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:42 PM

View PostArekkz, on 11 September 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

I love how everyone's default response is "I can't beat this character, therefore they are OP". I'm a Necro, and I've beaten a Ranger 1v1, so clearly it's doable.

Perhaps before jumping to the conclusion that the class is OP and must be nerfed, so you can beat them without having to try too hard, you should take a look at your build; If you can't beat a Ranger 1v1, then perhaps you should change what you are doing, and build something that works.

This .....


Every Mmo with pvp without fail

( insert class ) beat me as a ( insert class here ) therefore the class that beat me needs to be nerfed

I'm almost numb to it now after so many years of hearing it

99.9. % of the time it really is a l2p issue heh



On the topic of rangers in this Mmo ... They are very good at solo pve stuff in this game ... Decent at spvp ... Average in wvwvw unless left alone from above which rarely should happen ... And rangers are absolutely t-terriblbad in pve dungeon groups and basically useless along with mesmers

Rangers need serious combo field buffing for groups

#28 Skolops

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:47 PM

View PostQuested, on 11 September 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

This .....


Every Mmo with pvp without fail

( insert class ) beat me as a ( insert class here ) therefore the class that beat me needs to be nerfed

I'm almost numb to it now after so many years of hearing it

99.9. % of the time it really is a l2p issue heh



On the topic of rangers in this Mmo ... They are very good at solo pve stuff in this game ... Decent at spvp ... Average in wvwvw unless left alone from above which rarely should happen ... And rangers are absolutely t-terriblbad in pve dungeon groups and basically useless along with mesmers

Rangers need serious combo field buffing for groups

Nah, Rangers actually are fine at combo fields - at least if they're traited and utility skilled into. A trap ranger with Healing Spring and a torch can put out a good number of combo fields on a fairly short - for the flame trap, veeeeeerrry short - cooldown.

Honestly, that seems to be the general issue with them as a whole... they're actually fine at a variety of things IF you trait into it and pick very specific utility skills.  Other classes are able to do better in almost every area even before choosing traits/utility skills, and when they do the gap just gets wider.

#29 Quested

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:53 PM

View PostDireblade, on 11 September 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

ok, let me elaborate on what i feel is overpowered, just the speed, the attack rate is way to high. the skills are fine, the condition stacking and damage is fine.... its all fine in all specs..


ITS JUST THE SPEED, its way too fast, it was slower in beta and alot more balanced, now at release its fires stupidly fast, so fast that it even looks comical...

Tone down the speed and it will be fine again.

Animation has zero to do with anything in relation to balancing dps and survivability .... Zero ... Rangers are not close to being in line with warriors etc ...
Rangers are terrible in group play in hard mode exolorables ... We are good in open world solo pve though and shine in that department if you know how to kite when needed and don't face tank


I think most classes need to be brought in line with warriors needing any classess right now is a terrible and unbalancing thing to even call for.

The hard mode explorable dungeons are already a  ... Hope you kill one or two of the zergfest and die rinse and repeat til group of trash mobs dead ... Terribly unsatisfying dungeon experience ... Last thing we need to hear is some noob that got beat in a 1v 1 complaining for nerfs of any class

View PostSkolops, on 11 September 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:



Nah, Rangers actually are fine at combo fields - at least if they're traited and utility skilled into. A trap ranger with Healing Spring and a torch can put out a good number of combo fields on a fairly short - for the flame trap, veeeeeerrry short - cooldown.

Honestly, that seems to be the general issue with them as a whole... they're actually fine at a variety of things IF you trait into it and pick very specific utility skills.  Other classes are able to do better in almost every area even before choosing traits/utility skills, and when they do the gap just gets wider.

I'm not going to get in a flame war with you but your simply so far out in left field it's almost not worth responding but suffice to say mesmers and rangers are ay way way behind the 8 ball in the meta game of high end explorable mode dungeons period you can look up the thread on rangers being useless or whatever it is for the specific point by point analysis I and others gave and is the general consensus from big pve meta gaming gaming guilds tackling the content ... Math included

#30 Skolops

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 09:07 PM

View PostQuested, on 11 September 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:


I'm not going to get in a flame war with you but your simply so far out in left field it's almost not worth responding but suffice to say mesmers and rangers are ay way way behind the 8 ball in the meta game of high end explorable mode dungeons period you can look up the thread on rangers being useless or whatever it is for the specific point by point analysis I and others gave and is the general consensus from big pve meta gaming gaming guilds tackling the content ... Math included

Hey, I never said a word about whether or not they're any good in dungeons. :) I simply said that its not really accurate to say they can't lay down any combo fields, because they can essentially keep a fire combo field up permanently, they can lay down a water combo field, and an ice combo field on a relatively short cooldown.  I might even be missing one somewhere.




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