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The killing of Zhaitan..


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#1 8800123

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 11:41 AM

Arenanet set some pretty high standard and made this game so good that when i got to the "last stage" of the game, i was pretty excited about killing zhaitan.


Instead of some epic fights ( Flame Citadel was so much better ), i ended up getting so disappointed by it.

Just before we fight zhaitan, we were made to kill 3 dragons with cannons. Only problem is that the cannons face only the problem and you cant even tab to find the dragon and you cant even hit anything if you dont have a target. The only thing you can do to acquire the target is to basically spam click on the dragon lol.
And 98% of the time, you're just trying to not get killed by the risens.

Now if you think thats bad, wait til you see how we kill zhaitan.


Spoiler alert.

We fight risens for 5 min until some ultra cannon get charged up and shoot the dragon's tail. Then, after a few mins, the dragon was hanging onto some weird tower. Then the fun begin for us. It was up to us to kill the dragon.

We will spend the next 5 min, shooting fireworks ( No kidding. Just go watch any videos of the fight ) at the dragon with ZERO resistance. Zhaitan will NOT move. Your cannon can only shoot at 2 angle. You can turn your cannon by 45 degree if you use the 3rd skill slot and you can only turn it once before hitting its limit.

Also, there will be ZERO mobs spawning to try to kill you either. So yea, you will spend the last 5 min shooting fireworks at the dragon. Watching a rock would be more interesting to say the least.

#2 God Of Fissures

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:00 PM

i personally haven't gotten to fight zhaitan yet, but I keep hearing the exact same negative criticisms.  

sounds like a terribly "static" fight

#3 dd790

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:01 PM

Not done it myself yet but from what I have read and videos I have seen it doesn't look too inspiring. Maybe when I do it myself the atmosphere will make up for it. As a general rule the monorail turret sequences are very dull, to me atleast

I have no idea how it could of been done differently though, I guess it makes more sense this way as we were hardly going to slay the dragon with a bow or septer so blasting it with turrets makes sense, even if it is a bit of a let down gameplay involvement wise.

I just hope Anet has different ideas for Jormag and Kralkatorrik. Primordus and Bubbles are easy to come up with mechanics for as they are very different areas (underground (fight your was up to a stalactite above the dragon while the dwarves distract it and use Powder Kegs to break the stalactite dropping it on Primordus) and underwater (maybe a ship based battle sequence, preferably more open battle than the previous instances have been) but Jormag and Kralkatorrik are out in the open like Zhaitan, and if we needed a turret sequence to kill Zhaitan I dread to think how long we will need to sit in a turret shooting the much bigger Kralkatorrik

My main gripe with many areas of Guild Wars 2 is how scripted everything is. Even dynamic events are overly scripted! There isn't really that much freedom in the game. Once hearts and story are done then there are only DEs (which are scripted), grind mode explorable mode dungeons (3 linear paths) and aimless killing.

I just feel that "endgame" ie after you have done personal story, all hearts and story mode dungeons is limited to only grind, be it DEs for Kama or explorable dungeons for tokens. There doesn't seem to be much just fun things to do after finishing the game as nearly all the different mechanics are in non-repeatable personal story missions and hearts.

Maybe this will change in future content patches with added minigames and content, but at the moment I am struggling to even get the motivations to get to 80 and finish my story because I know once I do that toon is basically obsolete.

Edited by dd790, 11 September 2012 - 12:16 PM.


#4 8800123

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:06 PM

I do NOT mind killing the dragons with cannons and everything. Its just that i would expect the dragon not stand there and do absolutely NOTHING. Im not kidding. It does NOT do anything at all.

#5 Elagost

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:07 PM

Did this last night. Rather disappointed, I must say.

#6 Arkantos

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:16 PM

One of the most anti-climatic endings to any game I've played. ANet dropped the ball big time.

Tyria, here be dragons

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#7 Sifflion

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:54 PM

The fight is bullshit. Worst ending in a game i ever played :/.
Hope they fix it on a future patch.

#8 jonasklk

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:57 PM

I can't believe he destroys the the first part of the ship so easily, yet decides to let the rest of the ship keep flying.

#9 shanaeri rynale

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 01:45 PM

Personally, I enjoyed the final fight a great deal. The combination of the fights, the artwork, characterisation and music just make the whole thing truely epic.

If you just look at the game mechanicsm, without taking all of it into account it will come up short. It's only when you are invested in your character and their story does it all suddenly click

Spoiler

Edited by shanaeri rynale, 11 September 2012 - 01:46 PM.


#10 Puddin Cheeks

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 01:50 PM

I would have enjoyed it alot more if 4 of our party members me included, would have got to watch the cutscenes and get credit for finishing the storyline.  Only 1 member got credit and I was highly pissed about that.  I got a whopping 26 silver and a yellow hood that was useless.  Now when i go to dungeon it says "Replay Story Mode".  But my quest chain never finished.

Note to anyone doing this.  If you start and only 1 player is watching first cut scene, turn around and leave the dungeon.

#11 Arkantos

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 01:58 PM

View Postshanaeri rynale, on 11 September 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

Personally, I enjoyed the final fight a great deal. The combination of the fights, the artwork, characterisation and music just make the whole thing truely epic.

If you just look at the game mechanicsm, without taking all of it into account it will come up short. It's only when you are invested in your character and their story does it all suddenly click

Spoiler

The dungeon in general was pretty good, everything leading up to him was pretty awesome. I think the worst part is you don't actually fight him, and he poses no threat to you. It's just a few minutes spamming 2 while he holds onto a tower. I agree making him like the shatterer would have been bad, but they could have at least made it more interactive. Hopefully they take all the negative feedback and turn it into an amazing encounter for the next elder dragon.

Tyria, here be dragons

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#12 meeks

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 02:02 PM

There are a couple of really annoying things about that fight and the story in general at that moment.

The first WTF moment is when this new airship made from entirely new technology shows up unanounced at the exact moment you are ready to fight Zhaitan.  No one even knew they were building it but sure enough it materializes at the exact second it is needed.  This alone is some of the worst story telling I have ever seen in an mmo dungeon.

Of course the fight itself was pretty much a letdown, especially the last part with the fireworks.  It is litteraly 5 minutes of afking hitting 1 button with nothing else going on.  Why did they even bother making us do that?  If they had nothing for us to do they could have at least made a cool cutscene where something happens to make the killing feel more epic.

#13 amcoolio

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 02:13 PM

View PostPuddin Cheeks, on 11 September 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

I would have enjoyed it alot more if 4 of our party members me included, would have got to watch the cutscenes and get credit for finishing the storyline.  Only 1 member got credit and I was highly pissed about that.  I got a whopping 26 silver and a yellow hood that was useless.  Now when i go to dungeon it says "Replay Story Mode".  But my quest chain never finished.

Note to anyone doing this.  If you start and only 1 player is watching first cut scene, turn around and leave the dungeon.

It is so dumb and ridiculous that ANET wanted GW2 to be a solo game and discourage team play. Both in PvE and in PvP. Playing with friends is a detriment in PvE..there are no rewards to doing so, and its slower than just leveling solo. So whats the point?

#14 Cube

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 02:16 PM

Killing him was terrible. I was hoping for an epic fight. Instead, well... You just shoot him with a canon. For 5 straight minutes. While he stands there and just takes it o_O

#15 Vejuz

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 02:32 PM

This fight is clearly bugged, so make sure you /bug it.

#16 CKABEH 3BEPOB

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 02:34 PM

That was issue for me from the start. Bosses are too static, and i do not understand this game design decision. As designer myself, i always felt any boss encounter to be a bit bland, with not much substance at all. I am sure i am not the only one ( for once, my wife agrees with me on something :D ).

I am always baffled how some games already have this "innovation" already there, it just need to be implemented correctly into an MMO. In a dynamic combat, when you encounter static boss, dynamics are lost.

For example, this is how ( in my opinion ) dragon battle should look:



Notice that dragon has at least 10 different attacks and applying them randomly. He is running around, hitting with legs and tail ( tail is constant threat ), then jumps up, throw some fire balls, then some other black balls, shoot a fire blast all over the field, flies across the battlefield shooting from a range, while players are shooting at him with ballistas. That is great gameplay for me, much better than any boss i encountered in GW2.

I seriously love GW2, and am GW1 player with over 2000 hours, so, i am not bashing anything. I just want for GW2 to become even greater, that is my wish, i and i wish they could implement epic battles like this.

#17 Ingway

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 02:41 PM

What makes it worse is not hearing any kind of sound effects from the cannos during cutscenes, only the raindrops and the dragons roar once in a while, not even freaking music has been added to it... it makes the fight that much more lame.

#18 Mustache Mayhem

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 01:33 PM

I really enjoyed the way up to zhaitan.. it was pretty cool but had some plot holes like someone pointed out with the big air warship..

we took him out first time in.. the dragon targeting with the cannons was kind of off though- actually one of the dragons killed me while I was taking him out with the aa gun.. he was down to just a few hp and I was watering at the mouth for the kill- he was so low I killed him throwing a rock and rallied

did have some parts where the sound kicked off and only music.. but think they were trying to turn it into one of those quiet moments like when your fighting his eye and the zerg comes.. all hear is piano music like a tear jerker.. only thing is your not vested into any of these characters around you- destiny's edge shows up at the last second and unless you like zojja or are one of those furry lovers

the final killing of zhaitan thought looked cool.. I kind of felt bad for him- just kept blasting him in the face until he was gone.. he was so epic controlling minions on gilligans island, eating magic and then turned into the gimp (I bet by flannum).. everything was good up until the final fight imo..

ok off topic- people on their crappy computers probably (from wow with nvidia cards) complaining because they see zhaitan as 2 sticks clicking onto a lego block

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#19 AlixIcebane

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 01:59 PM

The only thing worse that the last mission is the loot you get from it.

Yeah I really needed a flame ram and 5 lootboxes that give me lvl 18 gear. TY anet

In the previeous guild wars you were given a super special weapons, access to specific armors, access to a special pet.

In gw2 the rewards is worse than what I get from a dynamic even

#20 Linfang

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 02:05 PM

why the hell would you put a spoiler alert in your post when the subject itself is a spoiler.

Edited by Linfang, 14 September 2012 - 02:05 PM.


#21 blargian

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 02:07 PM

they could have done alot with the cannons to make it better. they could have added diffrent attacks to do diffrent things they could have had it if u didnt hit him correctly he would attack you and destroy cannons and ud have to defend against waves of smaller guys to repair the cannons or they could have added skill to attacking him somehow idk

for example just pulling from other parts of the game
you could have an attack that reflects a fireball shot from the boss or your turret takes heavy dmg
you could have an ability that puts a shield around yourself that defends against a fire breath that p much downs your character
and just other things like that to make it more interesting than spamming 2 till its dead

Edited by blargian, 14 September 2012 - 02:15 PM.


#22 Icy Spicy

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 02:30 PM

i didnt finish my personal story but I did Arah story mode... idk if the ending is the same but tbh after the mess that was going on on the ships, i was glad we didnt have to kill a ton of mobs for once lol... the deck area of the 1st ship is waaaay to small...

#23 DocsMistake

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 02:55 PM

View Postamcoolio, on 11 September 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

It is so dumb and ridiculous that ANET wanted GW2 to be a solo game and discourage team play. Both in PvE and in PvP. Playing with friends is a detriment in PvE..there are no rewards to doing so, and its slower than just leveling solo. So whats the point?

If you stopped trying to meta-game and just play you would see that crunching through levels as fast as possible completely misses the point, the point of playing with friends is to play with friends, stop a while to smell the roses there are so many little nuances to this game. Also just because there is no concrete reward for cooperation doesn't mean that it is a detriment, I've had way more fun playing with friends than I have running solo.

#24 Flavvor

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:38 PM

Ya fighting Zhiatan was bad, awefull and dissapointing..

#25 Dasryn

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:23 PM

rezzing this thread because i feel like an update should be created to address this stupidity.

Zhaitan is an elder dragon, the amazing, awesome force of nature so epically powerful oh dear God!!!

and he turns out to be a push over.

#26 chuckles79

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:31 PM

Counter argument, the story makes it clear that his power has been pushed back and he's been weakened by the time you face him.  You defeat two of his lieutenants on the way down there,  and he has several large champions who are defeated on the path to battle him.  His power is not limitless and one can argue that he is in a weakened state by the time you face him.

Lastly, he's hit by pact weaponry at it's most effective and powerful levels.  A single volley of a few turrets brings down the Claw of Jormag.  The Pride of Tyria has two decks of those guns and they pour on the fire, after he was hit by an asuran megalaser.

From  a perspective of how powerful he is, he's taken out by a large invasion by air,land, and sea.  Utilizing tanks, choppers, and airships brimming with heavy firepower.

Compare to Abbadon, taken down by 8 dudes in the seat of his power (not fully free, but darn close to it.


I think the only let down about it was how powerful the dragon lieutenants are and how Zhaitan does not seem any more powerful than any of them.

#27 lolevy

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:32 PM

They have fixed the fight because the shooting stage against Zhaitan was bugged. Now he does spawn adds and more extreme-damage aoes to the Players. Yea, but basically it's still a pretty easy fight. Not necessarily "press 2 ftw" no challenge difficulty but still too easy for what was to be the final climatic fight for Tyria.

#28 Dasryn

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:50 PM

lets face it, the Zhaitan fight was underwhelming to say the least, and we all agree on that.

ANet spent all this time, hyping up the power of the dragons, and they are nothing.

#29 Eliirae

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:51 PM

Basically, this is all about complaining that the "last boss" isn't some super epic 5+hour long battle that requires intense super 120% concentration throughout the entire fight while you have to use the exact right abilities at the exact right time or you lose because the final enemy is just so insanely powerful that alone he could destroy the entire universe but he doesn't in the rest of the game just because but suddenly when you fight him he unleashes his full power.

Oh, and the fight has a million different phases because he's just that powerful.

Is it such a shocker to people that something that is said to be "powerful" by unorganized, not really trained people who are panicing and making things up isn't actually all that powerful once you have a plan, have weakened it a ton, AND have lots of firepower?

#30 Dasryn

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:58 PM

View PostEliirae, on 05 November 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

Basically, this is all about complaining that the "last boss" isn't some super epic 5+hour long battle that requires intense super 120% concentration throughout the entire fight while you have to use the exact right abilities at the exact right time or you lose because the final enemy is just so insanely powerful that alone he could destroy the entire universe but he doesn't in the rest of the game just because but suddenly when you fight him he unleashes his full power.

Oh, and the fight has a million different phases because he's just that powerful.

Is it such a shocker to people that something that is said to be "powerful" by unorganized, not really trained people who are panicing and making things up isn't actually all that powerful once you have a plan, have weakened it a ton, AND have lots of firepower?

basically waht this is, is ANet hyping up the dragons, making them seem like they are like forces of nature and how they can sink entire cities and scar the land and nearly annihilate a race of people (norn) and murder that same race of people's owl God spirit aspect thing.

and then it all comes down to shooting some guns at it.

i dont think anyone is expecting the exaggerated battle sequence you described above, but i think the were expecting something of a climax that was more than shooting some cannons.

idk, maybe its my fault for playing games like God of War 3, where the boss battles were literally an epic moment worthy of a place in the Halls of Great Epicness, or maybe its, "dont hype something up and then make it easy sauce or rather uneventful".




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