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Mesmer's and thief's, too powerful?

thief mesmer powerful overpowered elite

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#61 Adashio

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:34 AM

View PostShaynaro, on 05 November 2012 - 12:13 AM, said:

Mesmer here, playing it from the start. What is even more sad then how broken is the mesmer, is the refusal of the mesmer community to admit that it's OP.
Moa - yes, it can be dodge, blocked or whatever. The fact is that when it lands it's an almost guaranteed win for the mesmer. You can't say the same thing about Elementalist's pet, Engineer's Supply Drop , Ranger's Rampage as One or Warrior's signet. The only other elite changing the course of a 1v1 or 2v2 this much i think is Thieves Guild.
Time Warp - Quickness is absurd. Most of the community agrees and wish for the removal of it. The classes that get Quickness get a drawback( 50% more damage, no heal, no endurance ) and it is still considered broken. Yet there is the mesmer, with an AoE 10s buff with no drawback. How is this fine at all ?
Portal - Trebuchet repair, having mesmer and his buddies in 2 places at once, it's all been said before. Don't even get me started on teams with dual mesmer using portals.

I have been playing only shatter spec the past month and it's just very strong. The damage from mind wrack: 5-7k is quite the norm + it's aoe. Got 2 shatter mesmers there? You literally destroy teams with mind wrack.
The combination of Leap+Immobilize and Blurred Frenzy ( immune 2s ) is way too easy to land . It's simply a muuch better version of 100blades. Insert there  Mind Wrack and you have 10k damage pretty much all the time on decent toughness targets ( heavy training golem).. And we can do it every 10s.
The only classes that can resist our blurred frenzy+mind wrack combos are other mesmers, bunkers , very good tanky necros&engis and some shortbow thieves.

Combine this with the good survability of the mesmer ( staff leap, decoy, distortion, blurred frenzy, chaos armor ) and you have an amazing class that is pretty much a MUST for tPVP.

I honestly hope for mesmer nerfs ( especially to Portal & Time Warp )!

Final point - just going to leave you with this topic here: https://forum-en.gui...Some-Statistics . Check the image at the end of the first post. Pretty much sums it all up.


1) moa morph: yes I get this. People have been complaining about it since the dawn of time. And I disagree with you about the fact that once its used it is a instant win. Although it does mean that you are vulnerable for 10 secs. You will not be burst down in that time unless you are running a glass cannon build. I have used it on. Good players. And although I take a good chunk of health. He still recovers after the moa ends. Simply because most of his skills are recharged by then. On top of that pvp is a team game. Meaning that moa morph is not a aoe and hence if there are 2 or more people moa only can stall a fight for 10 secs. But more importantly it is not impossible to dodge. He'll I think every1/3 times I use moa morph someone will dodge it. Assuming he is a good player. Hay i have even dodged it on my gaurdian,warrior,and necro. so really stop complaining about the fact that it hurts when it lands. so do granades. and be sorry for yourself for not getting out of the way. Moa morph is OP. but only when compared to other elites.
2) time warp: again a little bit of complaint since the dawn of time. Though not as much as moa morph.  Really I think that this is not OP. simply because of the cool down. as well as the fact that it can still be countered(stun, knock back, daze) really if you have none of those available your build sucks. On top of that this is 1 of only 2 ways that the mesmer can get quickness(sigil,time w). And if the mesmer wants to use time warp. Something that has one of the longest cool downs in the game. Then let him.
3) your shatter build. I agree that if you build right you can get some insane shatter damage. Though this does result in weakness in other areas. And Although I agree that a team of shatter Mesmers can be good. It will not kill a team. On top of that I don't think that there will ever be that many games with 2 shatter Mesmers on the same team. Simply because that build is week compared to other builds.
4) portal: this is not OP. it takes up one of the utility skills and has a 60 sec cool down. Which is huge for utility. On top of that it does not do damage and is simply a tactic that can be used for the team. If you feel frustrated by the fact that the mesmer keeps going back and forth know this. You are not suppose to hunt down ever red name you see. The objectives are the control points. So get your head out of your ass and stop complaining
5) the magic bullet, clone leap, clone swap, and blurred frenzy combo: although this is one of the best combos in the game. It is not OP. simply because you should have a break stun skil as well as a way to get rid of immobilize. On top of that when immobilized you can stil dodge. O. Top of that this wastes a lot of the Mesmers skills. Resulting in a weakness later in the fight assuming you had enough skill to dodge it.

I have played this game from most angles and I am not defending the Mesmers because I am one. But rather I have played from all to most shoes and am able to see clearly what is unfair. I am not like a warrior that complains that the mesmers are OP because I cannot beat them simply because I cannot understand them. You can beat them just as easily as every other class. Though you still have to take the time to understand the class. People think Mesmers are OP because they attack the mesmer(get a good amount of health) then they get confused by all the clones, and after they find the mesmer again. He is at full health because he used his heal. This gives you a sense that Mesmers are unstoppable . Which is not the case. I have beaten Mesmers with every class many times. Even after they use time warp or moa morph successfully on me. Why. Because I know their tactics. I also know their weaknesses. In other words I actually know the class. Unlike all of you. Go play mesmer for a week on pvp. Until you understand a mesmer as well as know how to counter it.

Edited by Adashio, 05 November 2012 - 10:41 AM.


#62 Asomal

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:44 PM

View PostAky, on 05 November 2012 - 04:13 AM, said:

Because there is a counter tactic/skill against Portal. Wait.

Shadow trap from thieves kind of "counter" portal but really,who runs around with ST in ult slot waiting for a portal? :[

And to the guy saying the mesmer won't kill you in Moa unless you are glass cannon:
Are you kidding me?!

Moa right now does way too much. You can use it to kill someone 1x1, stomp in 2x1, kill a bunker, make a bunker leave the cap point (or else he'll die) and the most OP from all of those things: counter other elites!!

Let me use my Dagger Stor..MOAD! What about Lich Fo... MOAD! WTF! Maybe Tornado will do! Nop. MOA MOA MOA. :(

Edited by Asomal, 05 November 2012 - 03:49 PM.


#63 Zeebok

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:49 PM

View PostUssjTrunks, on 11 September 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:


Their downed skills are completely OP. You waste far too much time trying to stomp them, and are often unable to in group fights. They should only be allowed to teleport once, just like other classes can only knock you down/back once (except eles, who can't do anything while downed :P).

So so true. Stay put dammit!

#64 Kattar

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:48 PM

If you could all stop spamming random videos and other garbage, that would be great.

You are fooling yourself, user. Nothing here is what it seems. ANet is not the plucky hero, Guru is not an evil empire, and this is not the grand arena.



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#65 antoninusthepious

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:49 PM

Thieves heartseeker and pistol whip has been nerfed already.  By 15% damage in fact.  If you are asking for another DPS nerf for them that is a bit too much.  What you are asking is either an overhaul of the thief or mesmer or further decreasing their damage by X% which will hut pve and frankly, push away people from playing their class.

#66 AetherMcLoud

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 06:35 PM

View PostAdashio, on 05 November 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

1) moa morph: yes I get this. People have been complaining about it since the dawn of time. And I disagree with you about the fact that once its used it is a instant win. Although it does mean that you are vulnerable for 10 secs. You will not be burst down in that time unless you are running a glass cannon build. I have used it on. Good players. And although I take a good chunk of health. He still recovers after the moa ends. Simply because most of his skills are recharged by then. On top of that pvp is a team game. Meaning that moa morph is not a aoe and hence if there are 2 or more people moa only can stall a fight for 10 secs. But more importantly it is not impossible to dodge. He'll I think every1/3 times I use moa morph someone will dodge it. Assuming he is a good player. Hay i have even dodged it on my gaurdian,warrior,and necro. so really stop complaining about the fact that it hurts when it lands. so do granades. and be sorry for yourself for not getting out of the way. Moa morph is OP. but only when compared to other elites.
2) time warp: again a little bit of complaint since the dawn of time. Though not as much as moa morph.  Really I think that this is not OP. simply because of the cool down. as well as the fact that it can still be countered(stun, knock back, daze) really if you have none of those available your build sucks. On top of that this is 1 of only 2 ways that the mesmer can get quickness(sigil,time w). And if the mesmer wants to use time warp. Something that has one of the longest cool downs in the game. Then let him.
3) your shatter build. I agree that if you build right you can get some insane shatter damage. Though this does result in weakness in other areas. And Although I agree that a team of shatter Mesmers can be good. It will not kill a team. On top of that I don't think that there will ever be that many games with 2 shatter Mesmers on the same team. Simply because that build is week compared to other builds.
4) portal: this is not OP. it takes up one of the utility skills and has a 60 sec cool down. Which is huge for utility. On top of that it does not do damage and is simply a tactic that can be used for the team. If you feel frustrated by the fact that the mesmer keeps going back and forth know this. You are not suppose to hunt down ever red name you see. The objectives are the control points. So get your head out of your ass and stop complaining
5) the magic bullet, clone leap, clone swap, and blurred frenzy combo: although this is one of the best combos in the game. It is not OP. simply because you should have a break stun skil as well as a way to get rid of immobilize. On top of that when immobilized you can stil dodge. O. Top of that this wastes a lot of the Mesmers skills. Resulting in a weakness later in the fight assuming you had enough skill to dodge it.

I have played this game from most angles and I am not defending the Mesmers because I am one. But rather I have played from all to most shoes and am able to see clearly what is unfair. I am not like a warrior that complains that the mesmers are OP because I cannot beat them simply because I cannot understand them. You can beat them just as easily as every other class. Though you still have to take the time to understand the class. People think Mesmers are OP because they attack the mesmer(get a good amount of health) then they get confused by all the clones, and after they find the mesmer again. He is at full health because he used his heal. This gives you a sense that Mesmers are unstoppable . Which is not the case. I have beaten Mesmers with every class many times. Even after they use time warp or moa morph successfully on me. Why. Because I know their tactics. I also know their weaknesses. In other words I actually know the class. Unlike all of you. Go play mesmer for a week on pvp. Until you understand a mesmer as well as know how to counter it.

You never played a single tournament that much shows from your post. So much for "playing the game from all angles".

1. Against good mesmers moa is a death sentance. There is no denying that. 1v1 you're moa'd when you're most vulnerable, and 2v2 you're simply bursted down in seconds, defenseless.

2. Time warp is insane on keep and any other point where a few people are fighting. And trust me the team with timewarp will get the point because it gives insane burst potential.

3. Shatter has insane burst, extremely good sustained damage, and the usual mesmer active defenses. That is just way too much.


4. Portal is the most OP skill in the game for tournaments. 2 equally skilled teams on Khylo. The team with the mesmer wins because of instant treb repairs. And the team that uses the treb best wins Khylo.

5. What kind of idiotic argument is "once a skill is used it's on cooldown therefore you're gonna have a bad time later". You wanna fight with autoattacks only? Stunbreaks have 2-3 times the cooldown of your combo meaning it's impossible to break it all the time. On top of all that, you REALLY think you can dodge while immobilized showing that you don't even grasp the simplest most basic gameplay mechanics in this game. So no, you do not simply "dodge while immobilized because that is totally possible and if you're not skilled enough to do that you deserve to die to the combo". Also blurred frenzy makes you invulnerable (on top of the F4 skill) making it better than any other burst skill in the game.

#67 ak47_training

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:29 PM

View PostAetherMcLoud, on 05 November 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

1. Against good mesmers moa is a death sentance. There is no denying that. 1v1 you're moa'd when you're most vulnerable, and 2v2 you're simply bursted down in seconds, defenseless.
The most common argument vs Moa is - it can be dodged.
Very good mesmer will count your dodges and Moa you when you're out of stamina.
The best mesmer will plan ahead and provoke you to spend stamina on other need-to-dodge stuff and THEN Moa you.
So yes, to recap:
- Moa is dangerous even in the hands of a bad mesmer (especially in a 2v2 scenario).
- Moa is whopping I WIN button in proper hands.
I know no other Elite skills that can compare. Except for Time Warp and maybe Thieves Guild. Maybe.

View PostAetherMcLoud, on 05 November 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

2. Time warp is insane on keep and any other point where a few people are fighting. And trust me the team with timewarp will get the point because it gives insane burst potential.
Just true.

View PostAetherMcLoud, on 05 November 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

3. Shatter has insane burst, extremely good sustained damage, and the usual mesmer active defenses. That is just way too much.
Uh, well, there are different Shatters. Burst / Sustain Shatters do not contribute to active defense.
They're on separate cooldowns, yes, but he still has to generate clones before Shattering again.

View PostAetherMcLoud, on 05 November 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

4. Portal is the most OP skill in the game for tournaments. 2 equally skilled teams on Khylo. The team with the mesmer wins because of instant treb repairs. And the team that uses the treb best wins Khylo.
Unless there's a Treb Killer Elementalist present.
Which is still ridiculous - you have to have a particular class/build on your side to have a chance against a competent team on Kyhlo.

View PostAetherMcLoud, on 05 November 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

5. What kind of idiotic argument is "once a skill is used it's on cooldown therefore you're gonna have a bad time later". You wanna fight with autoattacks only? Stunbreaks have 2-3 times the cooldown of your combo meaning it's impossible to break it all the time. On top of all that, you REALLY think you can dodge while immobilized showing that you don't even grasp the simplest most basic gameplay mechanics in this game. So no, you do not simply "dodge while immobilized because that is totally possible and if you're not skilled enough to do that you deserve to die to the combo". Also blurred frenzy makes you invulnerable (on top of the F4 skill) making it better than any other burst skill in the game.
Just true as well. "You can dodge blurred frenzy while being immobilized" is a srs "know your math" issue.
Or probably he was facing exclusively other Mesmers (Distortions) and Thieves (Roll for Initiative, Disabling Shot etc. etc.). Kinda explains his assumptions on immobilized dodging :D

Edited by ak47_training, 05 November 2012 - 10:30 PM.


#68 AetherMcLoud

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:02 AM

View Postak47_training, on 05 November 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

Uh, well, there are different Shatters. Burst / Sustain Shatters do not contribute to active defense.
They're on separate cooldowns, yes, but he still has to generate clones before Shattering again.

What I meant that every shatter build still has access to the usual phantasms every mesmer gets, which still do respectable sustained damage without any traits and have to be killed because otherwise their damage will be too much (even if untraited). So if the mesmers comes against someone he cannot burst quickly he can still switch to other strategies. And depending on his utility choices (the fine thing about shatterplay is that he doesn't need to use up his 3 utility slots for the build) and weapons he still has blocks (offhand sword) and stealth (torch, decoy, etc.)

#69 Green

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:14 AM

View PostYonnystarr, on 11 September 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

Mesmers can only have three illusions out max. It is impossible to have five illusions out at once; if you create anymore than three your earliest illusion will be destroyed.

It is possible to have more than 3 illusions out without over writing any, but for a very short time. Once the Mesmer commands his illusions to shatter any more illusions created will not overwrite the current ones in the time it takes the current illusions to get in range of their target and shatter. We're talking a matter of a second or two, just saying.

#70 Adashio

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:16 AM

Just out of a random thought I had. What are your builds that you are running. Or more importantly what class are u running mainly

#71 Adashio

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:28 AM

View PostGreen, on 06 November 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:



It is possible to have more than 3 illusions out without over writing any, but for a very short time. Once the Mesmer commands his illusions to shatter any more illusions created will not overwrite the current ones in the time it takes the current illusions to get in range of their target and shatter. We're talking a matter of a second or two, just saying.

This is true. Though it is possible to get a max of 6 out in that case. Most of the time when a thief goes stealth. U use the 3 clones with mind wrack, then you summon 3 more clones. And all that time the clones for the shatter will be standing around because there target is invisible. And though you could get huge burst out of this strategy. It's not worth it. It's very rare for it to be more then 3 secs. And even if you have time it would be hard to get out the clones or phantasms. I suppose you could spam all the illusion skills. But that would waste their full potential. Not to mention make u vulnerable with most of your key skills on cool down. And yes that can back fire

To be honest. with any mmo a fight between players is so confusing with random effects going this way and that way. More often in team battles. I found that if you play all of the classes you understand that those effects are not random and with practice can be interpreted and countered much easier then if you only played 1 class ignorant to the others. It's all about the understanding lol

#72 Adashio

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:38 AM

Also I was wondering. If you could only change the cool down on Mao morph. What should the cool down be? I have seen way too much **** on removing the elite all together rather than requesting a nerf or bigger penalty for using it. In fact to be honest I have not seen anything posted on suggestions of what to do about Mao morph. NOTHING. Just the words "Mao morph is over powered" period. Honestly is that all that needs to be said!!!

Edited by Adashio, 06 November 2012 - 12:50 AM.


#73 Asomal

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 01:07 AM

View PostAdashio, on 06 November 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

Also I was wondering. If you could only change the cool down on Mao morph. What should the cool down be? I have seen way too much **** on removing the elite all together rather than requesting a nerf or bigger penalty for using it. In fact to be honest I have not seen anything posted on suggestions of what to do about Mao morph. NOTHING. Just the words "Mao morph is over powered" period. Honestly is that all that needs to be said!!!

1min and 30 seconds (90 seconds). Transform your enemy into a moa for 10 seconds and counts it like "stealth" effect (can't cap points,points are capped from you even if you are inside it), however, the foe becomes invunerable.

#74 Adashio

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 02:18 AM

View PostAsomal, on 06 November 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:



1min and 30 seconds (90 seconds). Transform your enemy into a moa for 10 seconds and counts it like "stealth" effect (can't cap points,points are capped from you even if you are inside it), however, the foe becomes invunerable.

Kind of going over board with the protection u are adding to the effected player in my opinion. Its my elite not his, and as such should not profit from it at all. Maybe if they gave the player more poweraful moa skills. Like one that sheaths him. Or maybe something that heals him. Though I like that you lowered the cool down for it. Shows a sense of fairness in you.
However I do not want to know how to edit the effects and time limit to make it feel fair to you. But rather what you believe should be the cool down for it to show what you believe would be a good cool down to counter the effect that already exists, and what meny people consider a OP effect.

The cool down is at 180 secs currently(3 min.). That should get your idea started. Most people just look at the effect and scream OP without considering the cool down.

Also I have found a small fight on youtube between a mesmer and a warrior that u gyz should see

(Hay moderator this is not spam so don't remove it)

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=7OFditTUzcI


What are your thoughts about this fight between the mesmer and warrior. Is the mesmer OP in the fight. If so how?

Edited by Adashio, 06 November 2012 - 02:31 AM.


#75 ak47_training

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 06:44 AM

View PostAsomal, on 06 November 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

1min and 30 seconds (90 seconds). Transform your enemy into a moa for 10 seconds and counts it like "stealth" effect (can't cap points,points are capped from you even if you are inside it), however, the foe becomes invunerable.
That actually sounds fair to everyone.
Still a powerful tool in 1v1 (mesmer can use it to catch a breath); Very good in 2v2 (making it a 2v1 for a limited time).
You can remove all the Moa skills out of picture completely that way. Maybe even make movement uncontrollable (similar to Polymorph).

#76 Chorazin

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:15 AM



#77 Aky

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:24 AM

View PostAsomal, on 06 November 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

1min and 30 seconds (90 seconds). Transform your enemy into a moa for 10 seconds and counts it like "stealth" effect (can't cap points,points are capped from you even if you are inside it), however, the foe becomes invunerable.
That's a really neat idea.

However Portal is the real problem, Moa is a joke compared to that.
Apart from that I do not think Mesmers are OP.

Edited by Aky, 06 November 2012 - 11:28 AM.


#78 Adashio

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:29 AM

Nice vid. It's very funny. Elementals are very hard to get used to. But my friend can play one with amazing skill. Can even beat my Mesmer very often. So really the elemental just needs a little more work to master than most other classes.

But anyway what do you gyz think of this fight between the mesmer and warrior

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=7OFditTUzcI

Is the mesmer OP. if so what skills did she use that we're OP in the fight.

#79 RecentlyTaken

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:32 AM

Replace elementalist in that clip with warrior, and it's like looking at myself in the mirror. After bitching about thiefs and how broken they are, i've come to realize that anet can't balance them with how they designed the game. In a game without well defined rolls, theifs are the only class that DOES have one in pvp, that being a burst assassin. In other games, burst assassins are countered by burst healing/shields from your healer. Hell, thats what we did in gw1 also. Can't do that in this game; everyone is supposed to be self-sufficent for the most part.

Anyways, rolled a thief myself for spvp like the majority of people stuck with shitty pvp classes (warrior/ele/ranger/eng). Maybe one day they will fix thief, but that wont come until they either remove the assassin-like burst damage and normalize it like the other classes, or they make it easier to support teammates (and i mean REAL heals and shields, not the stupid weak shit we have now)

#80 Adashio

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:33 AM

View PostAky, on 06 November 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:


That's a really neat idea.

However Portal is the real problem, Moa is a joke compared to that.
Apart from that I do not think Mesmers are OP.

I think moa morph is more of a problem then portal. I even consider portal a fair skill for the mesmer to have. Because the only OP use for it is on the map with the trebuchet. Also I think the cool down of 60 secs kinda counters what (in your opinion) is a OP effect.

But seriously can anyone tell me what they think about the fight with the mesmer and warrior. The link is in my above post

#81 Aky

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:41 AM

View PostAdashio, on 06 November 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

I think moa morph is more of a problem then portal. I even consider portal a fair skill for the mesmer to have. Because the only OP use for it is on the map with the trebuchet. Also I think the cool down of 60 secs kinda counters what (in your opinion) is a OP effect.
Fair enough, everyone has his own opinion about it.

#82 Adashio

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:47 AM

View PostAky, on 06 November 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

Fair enough, everyone has his own opinion about it.

thank u for your courtesy by respecting my opinion. though can you PLEASE tell me what you think about the video i posted showing a fight between a mesmer and a warrior

is the mesmer op in the fight. if so what skills were op that the mesmer used?

Edited by Adashio, 06 November 2012 - 11:47 AM.


#83 Andlát

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:49 AM

There is nothing remotely intriguing about the video - its a mesmer using a cookie cutter invulnerability combo against a terribly bad warrior.

#84 Adashio

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:00 PM

View PostAndlát, on 06 November 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

There is nothing remotely intriguing about the video - its a mesmer using a cookie cutter invulnerability combo against a terribly bad warrior.

i have been playing mesmer more lately and what i have found is that the people that usually lose to mesmers are people that waste their skills on the mesmers clones. or in this case a invulnerable mesmer. this actually hapens alot. only in this case the warrior died extramly quickly(2.5 times more quickly) then a actual fight. simply because the mesmergot quickness fom the sigil in her sword. and the warrior stupidly used frenzy increasing his damage by 50 percent. as well as the fact that he was thinking he could harm the mesmer whan the mesmer had distortion :P

it really all came down to the fact that the player did not edit hs fighting style when fighting a mesmer. which you should do with every class and build.

Edited by Adashio, 06 November 2012 - 11:59 AM.


#85 Andlát

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:17 PM

This video is a terrible example to illustrate your point - its is a fight back from BWE2, where the warrior is using a terrible spec with 0 defense. It is perfectly normal for mesmers - or anyone - to beat a sucky build. The mesmer didnt even have to pop most of his CDs.

The problem with the mesmer is that it has some broken skills such as the above mentioned moa morph, time warp and the biggest offender in my and many other people's opinion - portal. The ability to transfer your team from one point of the map to another is way more powerful than straight up damage, since this is a  point capture game.

As for thieves - I have already stated my opinion on them - strong, but easily counterable by some quick calculation of their initiative and dodging in the right moment.

For 1 v 1 situation Moa is far worse than Thieves Guild, simply because when you are morphed you lose all your abilities. When I play with my mesmer I do not open with Moa Morph since my opponent will be able to recover - I use it after he blew a lot of his defensive skills and his dodges, and use MM to secure my kill.

Edited by Andlát, 06 November 2012 - 12:28 PM.


#86 Dirame

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:32 PM

The only thing I think that needs a change in mesmers is the way shatters shatter (if you get what I'm saying). I've said this before but, half the time, I can't tell whether a mesmer is shattering or the clone is coming to attack me. On top of that when you dodge one clone shattering, you still have to dodge the rest that are still running towards you, so it's either you waste your dodge on one or none. For me that's just wrong and I should be able to evade the whole shatter (keep in mind that just 2 clones shattering on you is big damage already), just as I can evade a whole burst from a warrior or a backstab from a thief or out-strafe a Ranger's arrows.

Edited by Dirame, 06 November 2012 - 12:33 PM.


#87 HappyRainbow

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 02:00 PM

i agree other than shatters, which are a pain to avoid cause they so random, mesmers are not even that strong. I play mesmer and engineer and as an engineer i have never lost to a mesmer, infact i love them, they the easiest points in the game (and yes even tourny level) .

and if you complain about moa you really need more practice. it a slow and easy to notice skill that easily avoided and has a large cooldown.
if you get turn into a moa you deserve to go down for being too slow. i only been moa'd once while jumping over a fence. (cant dodge while in air >_>)

#88 AetherMcLoud

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 02:23 PM

View PostAdashio, on 06 November 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

Just out of a random thought I had. What are your builds that you are running. Or more importantly what class are u running mainly

Hello Adashio.
Look at your avatar,
Now back to mine.
Now back at your avatar.
Now back to mine.
Sadly, yours isn't mine.
But if you stopped playing lady-scented professions and switched to Elementalist yours could look like mine.
Look down, now back up.
Where are you? You're reading a post with the Avatar your avatar could look like.
What's in your post? Back at mine. I have it, it's factual discussion of tournament balance.
Look again. The post is now favorited.
Everything is possible when your avatar looks like a norn and not a lady.

I'm on a lightning.

Edited by AetherMcLoud, 06 November 2012 - 02:24 PM.


#89 Adashio

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 03:07 PM

elementalist and enginer are the hardest classes to master. right uder them in difficulty are mesmer, and theif. the gaurdian, warrior, necromancer, and ranger are on the bottom. Although they are still hard to master. you do not have to adapt a totaly different play style in order to be succesful with them. like the ones at the top. though some people can easily master the some classes at the top becasue that class is closer to their natural playstayle. again this is my own opinion on what average people think are the most difficult class. i know you have yours so please respect my opinion. took me 2 weeks to even get used to the mesmer class. got confused with my own clones lol WHICH ONE IS REALLY ME ??? LOL

Edited by Adashio, 06 November 2012 - 03:08 PM.


#90 Adashio

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 03:14 PM

View PostHappyRainbow, on 06 November 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

i agree other than shatters, which are a pain to avoid cause they so random, mesmers are not even that strong. I play mesmer and engineer and as an engineer i have never lost to a mesmer, infact i love them, they the easiest points in the game (and yes even tourny level) .

and if you complain about moa you really need more practice. it a slow and easy to notice skill that easily avoided and has a large cooldown.
if you get turn into a moa you deserve to go down for being too slow. i only been moa'd once while jumping over a fence. (cant dodge while in air >_>)

i agree with you about the moa morph. good players can dodge them with moderate difficulty. Although people more often complain about it when it hits rather than complain about how the effect is too powerful in comparison to how hard it is to dodge. or in comparison to the cool down.

View PostAetherMcLoud, on 06 November 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

Hello Adashio.
Look at your avatar,
Now back to mine.
Now back at your avatar.
Now back to mine.
Sadly, yours isn't mine.
But if you stopped playing lady-scented professions and switched to Elementalist yours could look like mine.
Look down, now back up.
Where are you? You're reading a post with the Avatar your avatar could look like.
What's in your post? Back at mine. I have it, it's factual discussion of tournament balance.
Look again. The post is now favorited.
Everything is possible when your avatar looks like a norn and not a lady.

I'm on a lightning.

lol very funny. though i think some of those spice commercials will want to get you back for it lol. anyway so you are a elementalist. what build though. are u a aura protection boon build? what build are u?





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