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Anti-farm code and Magic Find: A farmer's Perspective


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#1 Paulejin

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:24 AM

I've been lurking about on here for a while now, and here is my first contribution, please excuse my English as it is not my first language, but here goes:

THIS IS NOT ABOUT EVENT OR KARMA FARMING!!!

   Before I say anything else I must clarify that I love this game and everything about it. The story, the settings, the art style, and all the innovations that ArenaNet put into this game, its just about the most immersive gaming experience I've had in quite some time. I have been playing this game non-stop since the headstart and my zeal for the game has only intensify since then. I am not here to bash ArenaNet or the game like many other threads that I come across, I am merely trying to voice my opinion on a certain subject that , from what I've seen so far, many people tend to look down upon. the subject is that of farming.

  I am a type of MMO gamer who likes to do things on my own, make things using what I have found, and I generally use the market system, in any game, only to sell what I have collected, or made. Some people seems to not understand that there are people out there who enjoys killing the same mobs, over and over to get the stuff that they want, or want to make profit. I call my particular technique "AFK farming" where I will be systematically farming mobs for hours on end, while doing whatever else I may be doing at the time(I'm a genetics student so I've got my plate quite full) I find the actual farming to be relaxing, and the profits just roll in. Recently I've heard about the Anti-Farming scripts that was said to be built into the game, naturally I did some research, but I found little more than speculations due to the fact that back in GW1(which I did not play) had these scripts in place. I also found some information on ArenaNet stance on it (Apparently farming is frowned upon?)

Now I understand that the codes' primary function is to combat botting, however this part is the only part of the game I do not like. I personally feel like I am being punished for my playstyle because my behavior may resemble cheaters'. Don't get me wrong, I hate botters as much as the next person, they ruin the economy, and take away from the immersive experience of the game, while putting zero time commitment to the game, unlike the rest of us. But after farming for 30 minutes and having your loot just completely dry up, especially in Orr since EVERYTHING IS UNDEAD just seems a little bit much, especially when crafting is using as much materials as they do which also bring me to the second point:

What is the point of Magic find stat if after the certain period of time, the game just won't give you any loot? I am in full MF exotic gear as well as using omnomberry bar and magic find booster, while I definitely see more loot dropping for me, things still dried up after a period of farming and I would have to resort to moving to a different zone, or do something else, wasting my precious buff minutes.

I understand that this is more of a rant than anything else,but I would like to know if there are others out there who are in the same predicament as me, or if i am just crazy? As far as I know, no one seems to know for sure if the scripts exists, or how they work and I am at a lost because I've pretty much look everywhere, if the scripts do indeed exist, this seems to be a shortsighted solution and I understand that ArenaNet's attention is focused elsewhere. I still love the game and will continue to play it and hope for the best that the game will evolve into something that will flourish for years to come, and I thank ArenaNet for all the efforts they put into this game to make it possible, I know it wasn't easy, Keep it up Anet!

#2 Akula

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:33 AM

You should try switching the mob type you're farming after loot diminishes. I've noticed this too after about 300 kills of a specific mob like a minotaur. I then went on to another mob in the same zone and things dropped at the usual rate. Still not sure what makes this mob type counter reset, though.

Edited by Akula, 13 September 2012 - 12:45 AM.


#3 Paulejin

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:36 AM

View PostAkula, on 13 September 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

You should try switching the mob type you're farming after loot diminishes. I've noticed this too after about 300 kills of a specific mob like a minotaur. I then went on to another mob in the same zone and things dropped at the usual rate. Still not sure or what makes this mob type counter reset, though.

Its more the fact that I have to move, that it feels like I'm doing something wrong, I don't mind doing it, but why? I am not breaking any rules

#4 Red_Falcon

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:37 AM

Even in GW1 you weren't meant to "farm" a particular zone for extended periods.
The game would take note of the last things you farmed and only resets if you go somewhere else to farm.
This is to prevent farming of one particular item or currency, and also to prevent people from "taking over" or crowding a particular area.

Those are very valid reasons to not allow people to sit for too long farming an area or a DE.
Farm 20min in one area then move on.

It's not that you're breaking a rule or something, but if everyone was allowed to do this you know how this will end.
Good zones will have dozens of people in and another player will be unable to farm at their pace.

Adapting to your next person's needs is one thing you will have to do in many environments, not just gaming.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 13 September 2012 - 12:39 AM.


#5 Gileas898

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:38 AM

Lmao don't expect Arena Net to cater to farmers. They kept making the game unenjoyable for us on every occasion they could  in GW1. Naturally they always failed because they went with their own solutions instead of asking someone who knows anything about farming. Their last "nerf" made farming even more profitable lol.

Kind of strange considering we were their biggest playerbase for the last 2-3 years of Guild Wars, but w/e I guess.

#6 Paulejin

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:40 AM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 13 September 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

Even in GW1 you weren't meant to "farm" a particular zone for extended periods.
The game would take note of the last things you farmed and only resets if you go somewhere else to farm.
This is to prevent farming of one particular item or currency, and also to prevent people from "taking over" or crowding a particular area.

Those are very valid reasons to not allow people to sit for too long farming an area or a DE.
Farm 20min in one area then move on.

I generally pick a spot where there is low traffic, I dont farm DEs, and I don't farm for specific items, generally. I stack MF so that I get more chance for drops. what's wrong with that?

#7 Majic

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 12:46 AM

The best way to appreciate the need for anti-farming code is to visit "Botter's Bridge" in the Kessex Hills and try competing with a couple dozen bots for kills during a dynamic event.

It's possible to get gold despite the spawns dying in milliseconds in a hail of bot-fire, but having to fight a platoon of bots to do it is demoralizing, breaks immersion and cheapens the game experience in far more ways than it should.

To the extent it interferes with players who enjoy doing things their way, I'm sorry to see it and would love to see the anti-exploit measures refined and less problematic. But there's definitely a need for it, and as long as that's the case, the best I can suggest is adapting to it as necessary.

#8 Mustache Mayhem

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:09 AM

yeah I can confirm the anti farm code is in gw2.. I tried farming events with high dps- the first round I got rares and filled my bags.. the second time I did the same event in a row.. same dps, but all I got was bones and one white

I'm a gw1 solo farmer.. much like gileas898 said they had the same deal in the original and it was exactly like that

I used to try switching areas and come back.. but even if you come back too soon, it'll still be there.. what's funny is if you lay off a long time from playing th game and come back.. you'll be showered in drops

the anti nerf code never applied to chests though.. that's why solo chest farming (elite dungeon chests) ended up pretty profitable.. underworld ecto farming was big back in the day but after a few runs the code would kick in and you'd have to go run a dungeon like fendi's or slavers exile and come back for another round.. just find an event with a chest at the end and you'll be good.. or have a rotation

#9 Paulejin

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:13 AM

View PostMajic, on 13 September 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

The best way to appreciate the need for anti-farming code is to visit "Botter's Bridge" in the Kessex Hills and try competing with a couple dozen bots for kills during a dynamic event.

It's possible to get gold despite the spawns dying in milliseconds in a hail of bot-fire, but having to fight a platoon of bots to do it is demoralizing, breaks immersion and cheapens the game experience in far more ways than it should.

To the extent it interferes with players who enjoy doing things their way, I'm sorry to see it and would love to see the anti-exploit measures refined and less problematic. But there's definitely a need for it, and as long as that's the case, the best I can suggest is adapting to it as necessary.

If there are still bots running around, then this script is quite ineffective at combating them. it just make its hard to bot, not stop it, and in the process, hurting people like me.

Edited by Paulejin, 13 September 2012 - 01:15 AM.


#10 littleXuro

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:14 AM

The anti-farm code is rather harsh, I was farming in Cursed Shore and two DE's started, first DE I gained an item every 2 monsters (was using MF too) and the second DE I found one item during the entire event. The total time spend in that area was 9 minutes. I logged to one of my alts after that, couldn't be bothered to move area's every 10 minutes for this.

#11 LOCOMOFO

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:22 AM

Personally I feel the anti-farming code does more harm than good.

However if there were more high end areas to farm, it wouldn't be too much of an issue.

#12 Athos

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:37 AM

@OP

I will admit I an not a farmer! I do however feel you have a valid point! You should not be punished for your play style and if you enjoy farming and perfecting a farming run I feel you should be allowed to do this.

HOWEVER, you must remember that mmorpgs are built with surprisingly complicated and fragile economies. They are easily disrupted by even seemingly small 'insults' for wAnt of a better word. The anti farm code is in place to avoid markets be moong flooded with certain objects and ensuring a degree of balance. Furthermore they have a key role to play in fighting bots ( something that whatever your opinion Anet is VERY against and will strive to punish/make life very hard for them).

Imagine this for example, if it was the case that loot was consistent, one easily farmed item might flood the market. A comparison would be flooding the real world market with a precious resource (e.g diamonds). This would not only drop the price of diamonds but have a huge wide reaching effect on many areas of the economy (other precious stones would become more valuable). The anti farm code is In place to limit this stressors on the economy and to attempt to maintain a degree of balance.

Where you fit in.... You have a choice, the code is in place for the greater good of the game. However this is a game, for you to have fun and it would not be selfish to think about yourself rather than the greater good in this situation. You could however think that yes this is an inconvenience, however at least when u open trade post the prices for items remain stable and reasonable.

Anyways, either way I do feel that you have legitimate reason to complain and feel it is a shame that bots amongst other things make Anet feel the need to put something into the game that punishes you!

#13 Lollie

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:40 AM

They need to employ some GMs to log into game and ban the bots, rather than punish legitimate players with cheap coding like this.

#14 Seera1024

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:50 AM

The coding they have is to make it so fewer people are tempted to bot and those who farm for the sole purpose to damage the economy (which is not what you're doing). And as a safety net because ANet staff are only human and might miss a bot or two for some time.

It's like anti-piracy codes that make people have to be online or only be able to install it X number of times. Troublesome for the honest customer, but there because enough bad people broke the law. The few ruining it for the many. The anti-farm code is there because of the few bad players. It's unfortunate that it does affect those of us who aren't doing something wrong.

#15 Mustache Mayhem

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:51 AM

well to be fair.. this game has very little skill involved in the actual farming..

like in gw1, a guy from wow would faceplant doing what we did in those dungeons

#16 Bear Storm

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:56 AM

Get two alts and switch off when the code kicks in =D

#17 Lord_Demosthene

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:38 PM

To be honest, the game would be better off without magic find gear in the first place (since it diminishes the value of customised gear tailor-made to the specific build you're running, because you're stuck with a generic "power" build template with magic find added on the top of it).

If people want to farm the same zone over and over again, let them - unless they're a particularly rare type of players that enjoy farming a lot in this specific area, chances are they do this because they need particular loot for crafting, mystic forge etc.

Instead of punishing players for playing, reward them for exploring the area. Punisment for standing still is a poor motivation for playing differently and completely unrelated to long-term anti-bot strategy.

Edited by Lord_Demosthene, 13 September 2012 - 01:38 PM.


#18 golden_radish

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 01:48 PM

Agreed, there is no point to the magic find stat, with this anti-farm code currently in place.

I think anti-farm is a horrible mechanic, and I noticed it without even knowing it was in GW1.  When a player is killing in a certain area for crafting mats, they SHOULD NOT be penalized.  Today, they are.
I need 90 creature parts (venom, bones, etc) to create a yellow set of armor at level 80.
If I want to get these myself, I have to kill a LOT of creatures.  And yet, the game prevents me from doing so in a reasonable fashion.
Two broken systems.  One has to change.  Either drop the mat requirements, or turn off anti-farming (or tune it so it kicks in after 8 hours, not 30 minutes)

This problem is going to become a seriously contentious issue, to the point where players are going to do nothing but game the system to get yellow to get ecto's.  Is that really what you want, ArenaNet?  Players fighting your anti-farming code, rather than fighting Zhaitan?  Ok then, mission accomplished.

#19 jondifool

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:00 PM

i stumbled on some trolls in frostgore Sound a few days ago with my defense maxed mesmer a late night and had a blast killing trolls that keept respawning, and killed the champ with very little help, took the rewards from the chest and enjoyed the loot. Now a few days later after battling Jormag i saw i was close to that area and i revisited it and there where 10+ players "farming" the spot, i joined to see what happend , and realised after a few minutes that nothing dropped, but players keept joining the fray.

Now I later learned that people farm trolls there for the blod that actual is worth quite a few silver on the market, and I can only say that i am happy that there is an Antifarming mechanic in the game, because else i would never be able to come back to that area to replay the challange of going up again a champ mostly alone.

And to players saying that there is no point in magic find stats with a antifarm code in play- then play without.
Or just enjoy that you boost your drops while playing with variation.

Edited by jondifool, 13 September 2012 - 02:04 PM.


#20 Lodgeinator

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 02:08 PM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 13 September 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

Even in GW1 you weren't meant to "farm" a particular zone for extended periods.
The game would take note of the last things you farmed and only resets if you go somewhere else to farm.
This is to prevent farming of one particular item or currency, and also to prevent people from "taking over" or crowding a particular area.

Those are very valid reasons to not allow people to sit for too long farming an area or a DE.
Farm 20min in one area then move on.

It's not that you're breaking a rule or something, but if everyone was allowed to do this you know how this will end.
Good zones will have dozens of people in and another player will be unable to farm at their pace.

Adapting to your next person's needs is one thing you will have to do in many environments, not just gaming.
GW1 did not reduce drops if you stayed in a single area for too long.

#21 Tallenn

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:03 PM

View Postjondifool, on 13 September 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

i stumbled on some trolls in frostgore Sound a few days ago with my defense maxed mesmer a late night and had a blast killing trolls that keept respawning, and killed the champ with very little help, took the rewards from the chest and enjoyed the loot. Now a few days later after battling Jormag i saw i was close to that area and i revisited it and there where 10+ players "farming" the spot, i joined to see what happend , and realised after a few minutes that nothing dropped, but players keept joining the fray.

Now I later learned that people farm trolls there for the blod that actual is worth quite a few silver on the market, and I can only say that i am happy that there is an Antifarming mechanic in the game, because else i would never be able to come back to that area to replay the challange of going up again a champ mostly alone.

And to players saying that there is no point in magic find stats with a antifarm code in play- then play without.
Or just enjoy that you boost your drops while playing with variation.
I ran across this area last night. Never seen anything like it. About 20 people and a never-ending respawn of trolls. I messed around in there for like 20 minutes, then got bored of doing the same thing over and over again, so I left. Got a pretty good amount of potent blood though.

I'll definitely do it again, but I couldn't see spending more than a half hour just killing the same never ending mobs.

#22 Red_Falcon

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 03:54 PM

View PostLodgeinator, on 13 September 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

GW1 did not reduce drops if you stayed in a single area for too long.

Good job genius, GW1 was instance-based.
The anti-farm in GW1 triggered if you farmed the same instance multiple times.

#23 Paulejin

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 05:30 PM

View Postgolden_radish, on 13 September 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Agreed, there is no point to the magic find stat, with this anti-farm code currently in place.

I think anti-farm is a horrible mechanic, and I noticed it without even knowing it was in GW1.  When a player is killing in a certain area for crafting mats, they SHOULD NOT be penalized.  Today, they are.
I need 90 creature parts (venom, bones, etc) to create a yellow set of armor at level 80.
If I want to get these myself, I have to kill a LOT of creatures.  And yet, the game prevents me from doing so in a reasonable fashion.
Two broken systems.  One has to change.  Either drop the mat requirements, or turn off anti-farming (or tune it so it kicks in after 8 hours, not 30 minutes)

This problem is going to become a seriously contentious issue, to the point where players are going to do nothing but game the system to get yellow to get ecto's.  Is that really what you want, ArenaNet?  Players fighting your anti-farming code, rather than fighting Zhaitan?  Ok then, mission accomplished.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

#24 Lodgeinator

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 06:24 PM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 13 September 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

Good job genius, GW1 was instance-based.
The anti-farm in GW1 triggered if you farmed the same instance multiple times.
I know and it still didn't effect the drops, just because you seemed to get a few less gold drops from raptors or ectos from uw does not mean that there is an anti farm code, it's just conformation bias.

#25 golden_radish

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 06:26 PM

View PostLodgeinator, on 13 September 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

I know and it still didn't effect the drops, just because you seemed to get a few less gold drops from raptors or ectos from uw does not mean that there is an anti farm code, it's just conformation bias.

Lodgeinator:

If you know, 100% for sure, that gw2 has anti-farming code, please tell us.
If you know, 100% for sure, that gw2 DOES NOT have anti-farming code, please tell us.

#26 Lodgeinator

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 06:30 PM

View Postgolden_radish, on 13 September 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

Lodgeinator:

If you know, 100% for sure, that gw2 has anti-farming code, please tell us.
If you know, 100% for sure, that gw2 DOES NOT have anti-farming code, please tell us.

Without extensive testing  we cannot say for sure that GW2 has an anti farm code, and seeing that GW1 did not have one in the sence that drops lessened over time  it is fair to assume that GW2 does not have one until it can be proven otherwise.

#27 Icy Indica

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 06:33 PM

View PostPaulejin, on 13 September 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

.... I call my particular technique "AFK farming" where I will be systematically farming mobs for hours on end, while doing whatever else I may be doing at the time...

Took a snip of your post, what is AFK farming?  And how do you farm while doing something else with out botting?

#28 Daichu

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 06:53 PM

View PostIcy Indica, on 13 September 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

Took a snip of your post, what is AFK farming?  And how do you farm while doing something else with out botting?

Not to answer for the OP, but for me I sort of do this eventually as well.

It comes down to me knowing what my skill rotation is going to be and if I know the area well enough, I can sort of 'auto-pilot' through a farming run.

While I haven't done this in GW2 yet, I used to do this all the time in Aion, GW, etc and could watch Netflix, surf, etc on one screen while controlling my character on the other.

Edited by Daichu, 13 September 2012 - 06:54 PM.


#29 Paulejin

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 06:59 PM

View PostIcy Indica, on 13 September 2012 - 06:33 PM, said:

Took a snip of your post, what is AFK farming?  And how do you farm while doing something else with out botting?

Generally, I play GW2 on my laptop, with another PC next to it so I may be reading, writing assignments, or having an actual book open in my general study area. This game doesn't take much multitasking skill to farm if you know what you're doing and have a route and/or circuits that you are running with, Coupling with the fact that I am a Guardian which means even if I'm shifting my attention towards something else for a few seconds and having a mob or two whacking at me i dont immediately just drop to the ground. I also tend to not look at the screen very much anymore. All that is required is a quick glance now and then to make sure you're not swinging at nothing or accidentally pull some champions or something.
   Usually without looking at the screen I can still press Tab -> 4 (Greatsword skill "Leap of faith") or z(Bound to my "Judge's Intervention") which is another blinking skill followed by 5 -> 5 (Greatsword skill "Binding Blade" -> Pull) At this point I will have a mob or two next to me then I proceed to lay down my Symbols and auto attack. Easy as pie without needing all of my attention.

Also one thing I found to be really helpful is the fact that Anet code this game in such a away that I don't have to actually be facing the mob to execute a skill, because if say you have your back to a mob and you activate a Targeted skill, your character will automatically turn around and use the skill, as oppose to other MMOs

Edited by Paulejin, 13 September 2012 - 07:08 PM.


#30 MattVid

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 07:07 PM

It is pretty lame if this is really what is happening. If you are going to crush people's ability to farm, at least give us some way to know.

I agree with many people here. You are crushing other players trying to stop a few bots? Get some GM's and have them do their damn job. I could have easily banned over 15 people that I have seen in the past few days that were obviously botting and spamming. And I am just one person, on one server.

I was planning on making a magic find armor set (80 rare) just to help with getting drops. But if this code is true, and all there is to fight is stupid undead in the final zone ... it doesn't seem worth doing at all.




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