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Warrior, outclassed in every way


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#181 Thorgar

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:06 PM

View PostMitch, on 10 January 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

This applies to people in WvW in general, not just warriors, which kind of makes your point invalid, everything is viable in WvW, warrior in tPvP however is severly limited and at a disadvantage against nearly every class 1v1, their only real purpose is to roam with GS and try to get the jump on someone with bull's charge 100b, other builds will get kited indefinitely or lack damage/mobility/survivability.

have you checked tPVP recently?,well because some teams are even starting to use double warrior combo

beside that,you are sayng that the warrior is only viable when using the greatsword combo with bull frenzy and 100b

if the warrior is so mocked in pvp it's because people limit themselves to only that combo,and when a thief or a mesmer dodge or use a stun break destroyng your combo,you came here to cry about how warriors suck in pvp,first have you ever considered using bola strike?it's almost a 5 second root,that's right 5 seconds if you land that thing you can cast the whole HB combo without having to use frenzy,or forcing a stunbreak or cc removal,and bola has only 20 seconds of cd,if you are using sword and gs you dont need another gap closer,or if you think that hbs it's too easy to dodge,try eviscerate,you can literally oneshot people with that ability.

warriors have the best single target disables in the game,and most of them are with low cd,but that doesnt mean that you have to blow your full combo then die because you are frenzied and the enemy ran away,that means that you have to peel the enemy until all of his cooldowns are down then burst his ass to the ground.

plus dont rely too much in  hundred blades,whirlwind and rush deal a ton of damage,and they are easy as hell to land

im not sayng that we dont have issues,the hammer and some of our utilities could use some work,(mainly bug fixes),but the only reason warriors arent seen in Tpvp is because 70% of the warrior community is using the greatsword relyng only in hundred blades,using the charge frenzy combo on everyone,and dyng miserably when they face a semi decent opponent.

personally the stuff that i want badly to be fixed are

bola's sometime bugging and dont applyng the root

arcing slice being a completely waste of a burst skill

and rampage,man that thing is just so bad

Edited by Thorgar, 11 January 2013 - 12:24 PM.


#182 Seras

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:08 PM

Maybe warriors aren't as good in tPvP, but 95% of the time I have the highest points in my sPvP matches, sometimes by huge margins of 100 or 150 points (e.g., 350-580 points while the next guy down has 100 or 200 less). I'm very good at 1v1 and can resolve other 1v1 or 2v2 matches within 10 seconds (i.e., can help my team mates kill the enemies within 10 seconds). My roaming abilities are nearly unrivaled and I don't suffer from glass cannon thieves' inability to endure sustained damage during a stun or immobilization.

I dominate because I know when to engage and when to retreat. The warrior has, in my opinion, just as good mobility as a thief and can retreat away immediately with the right skills. He can also gap close insanely fast and has amazing disables and stuns that make landing attacks easy.

My glass cannon warrior is not that glassy either. I can typically hold up under significant attack, especially with shield defense and proper retreats. On the other hand, I can also insta-gib glass cannon thieves, eles and even guardians from full life to 0 in approximately 2-3 seconds (including finisher with frenzy enabled) if they're stupid enough not to have proper defense utilities up.

Overall, it's more of a L2P issue -- at least in sPvP. In tPvP, warriors suffer from inability to super spike like glass cannon thieves, bunker down like eles or guards, and an inability to condi spam like rangers, necros or engis. tPvP is all about spiking, bunkering and condi spamming so warriors fall somewhat short. Not totally though. I can easily see coordinated strikes involving warrior bull rush or bola strike that could leave an enemy dead very quickly.

Edited by Seras, 12 January 2013 - 11:09 PM.


#183 Mitch

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:14 AM

View PostThorgar, on 10 January 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

have you checked tPVP recently?,well because some teams are even starting to use double warrior combo

Haven't seen it, rarely even see 1 warrior per team.

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beside that,you are sayng that the warrior is only viable when using the greatsword combo with bull frenzy and 100b

I dont really think warrior is viable period, just this build is the only one that seems to have the mobility and burst to fill the same role as thieves more or less, guardians and eles will always be better bunkers, eles are better roamers too (less burst but superior mobility and survivability, utility and dueling)

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if the warrior is so mocked in pvp it's because people limit themselves to only that combo,and when a thief or a mesmer dodge or use a stun break destroyng your combo,you came here to cry about how warriors suck in pvp,first have you ever considered using bola strike?it's almost a 5 second root,that's right 5 seconds if you land that thing you can cast the whole HB combo without having to use frenzy,or forcing a stunbreak or cc removal,and bola has only 20 seconds of cd,if you are using sword and gs you dont need another gap closer,or if you think that hbs it's too easy to dodge,try eviscerate,you can literally oneshot people with that ability.

warriors have the best single target disables in the game,and most of them are with low cd,but that doesnt mean that you have to blow your full combo then die because you are frenzied and the enemy ran away,that means that you have to peel the enemy until all of his cooldowns are down then burst his ass to the ground.

plus dont rely too much in  hundred blades,whirlwind and rush deal a ton of damage,and they are easy as hell to land

Bola Throw is even easier to dodge than Bull's Charge, doesn't force a stun break and still allows skill usage, immobilize is very useful but it has plenty of counters. I personally like axe, I'm experimenting a bit with an Axe/Shield Sword/Mace build as the sword 2 gives some decent mobility and I dislike using GS.

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im not sayng that we dont have issues,the hammer and some of our utilities could use some work,(mainly bug fixes),but the only reason warriors arent seen in Tpvp is because 70% of the warrior community is using the greatsword relyng only in hundred blades,using the charge frenzy combo on everyone,and dyng miserably when they face a semi decent opponent.

The main issue imo is still getting kited too much, GS gives good mobility and good burst, GS3 is very good indeed but it has no CC and is fairly easily countered which is why I don't like it much, no more weapon swapping made warriors a lot worse imo as swapping to warhorn would greatly help your mobility. Using the warhorn on one of your weapon sets is just gimping you too much I feel. I personally really like the Axe/Mace Mace/Shield build but it's unusable for me atm due to the lack of gapclosers/swiftness.

#184 Thorgar

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:39 PM

^ keep in mind anyway that warrior are not a bad class,imo the mesmers and the stealth mechanic of the thief are broken as hell right now,when those 2 things will be addressed we shall see more warriors in Tpvp

#185 Mitch

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 07:14 PM

View PostThorgar, on 13 January 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

^ keep in mind anyway that warrior are not a bad class,imo the mesmers and the stealth mechanic of the thief are broken as hell right now,when those 2 things will be addressed we shall see more warriors in Tpvp

I'm not so sure, as a warrior I rarely have problems with thieves, mesmers are imo only problematic cause of portal and timewarp.
Stealth is only really problematic cause of the issues this game seems to have with loading characters coming out of stealth and the macro thieves who manage to get their full combo in while stealthed.

I'm more worried about eles and guardians, both seem to shit all over warriors due to their tankiness, heals, snares and retaliation.

#186 kolaz

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:07 AM

From my experience - guardians - phew. Whole having 2x crippe, chill, root, and 2 stuns keeping them close is easy. They have no mibiltiy skills to run. With huge dps and and high crit build I hae no problem taking em down. Just outdps their heals. And I'm speaking about good guardians (1v1 duels).

Thiefs - mhm... good backstabers are really tough. Stealth is our killer... altho if u can catch him - dies in 2 hits. Altho good pistol/dagger thief is impossible. Too many movement skills and stealth + range. Tried different tactics, builds... jsut impossible to catch him, + those builds are more tanky, so he won't die from 2-3 hits unfortunately... Ofc in WvW msot theifs plays glass backstabs, which are not a problem.

Good ele dager is always hard. But not impossible.

Mesmer usually are really soft, so not a prob also.


My worst nightmare: pistol/dagger balanced thief, GOOD backstabber, GOOD ele dagger.

Close fights: good rangers, good mesmers, guardians, good engis,

Easy fights: rest

Auto win fights: necros (never seen good necro.. even in 1v1 matches from PvP guilds), most warriors


And about GS - its just to good to skip this weapon... Not skipping about 100b, coz its very medioce skill. Whirl skill is one of the best burst skill in the game + evade + gap closer with low cd, 1200 gap closer, ranged cripple... Its just superior compared to other weapons. Have everything you need.

#187 Mitch

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:10 AM

View Postkolaz, on 14 January 2013 - 12:07 AM, said:

From my experience - guardians - phew. Whole having 2x crippe, chill, root, and 2 stuns keeping them close is easy. They have no mibiltiy skills to run. With huge dps and and high crit build I hae no problem taking em down. Just outdps their heals. And I'm speaking about good guardians (1v1 duels).

I'm talking about tPvP here, guardians don't need mobility as they bunker on mid most of the time, your cripple is gonna be useless, and retaliation and burning will hurt a lot while the guardian can easily outsustain your damage, at least in my experience.

Quote

Thiefs - mhm... good backstabers are really tough. Stealth is our killer... altho if u can catch him - dies in 2 hits. Altho good pistol/dagger thief is impossible. Too many movement skills and stealth + range. Tried different tactics, builds... jsut impossible to catch him, + those builds are more tanky, so he won't die from 2-3 hits unfortunately... Ofc in WvW msot theifs plays glass backstabs, which are not a problem.

Thieves you can just stunbreak out of basilisk venom and cc and kill, they will escape most of the time if they're halfdecent but you shouldn't really ever die to a thief unless you're low and don't have cooldowns.

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Good ele dager is always hard. But not impossible.

Mesmer usually are really soft, so not a prob also.

Ele is more or less impossible to kill 1v1, even if you do manage to get them low, they will just ride the lightning out, heal up and come back in. A good mesmer is unbeatable for warrior unless he *s up hugely.

#188 Thorgar

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:47 AM

the only thief that is impossible to kill for me is the one that abuses the perma stealth macro,luckily in the next patch it's going to be fixed,beside that to beat an D/D elementalist you need to use sword shield/gs combo to match their mobility,if you can catch them you can kill them

#189 UssjTrunks

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 07:01 PM

Since getting back into the game a little bit recently, I take back what I said above. Warrior does stink it up pretty bad in the current metagame.

#190 beadnbutter32

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 07:41 PM

View PostNeara, on 29 September 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

Have you even played an Elementalist?

Yes I have played an Ele all the way to level 80.

Nuke and kite city.

As long as an Ele has space to kite in, its faceroll easy.

Less space bring out the control skills.

No other class has so many options in combat. Nada.

Tons of control stills, lots of ranged attacks, did I mention auto aim?

Plenty of heal skills as well.

Warrior has no such luxury, get up close and personal if you want to damage, and you better be on top of your attack tell reading and dodge skills or you can give it up. Equipped your GS or Axe when you really could use some control, well tough luck, your stuck, unlike the Ele who can swap attunements in a flash.
Anet purposely left hot weapon swapping out since it would negate the attunement swapping advantage that Elementalists enjoy.

All those warrior healing skills, all one of them to choose from.  Shouts heal may help your squishy team mates, but no where near the ball park of Ele self heals.  Heavy Armor in a scheme designed to penalize tanking, scratch that advantage.  Re-designing MMO combat in a way that negates tanking means optimizing it for casters and kiting. GW2s combat is optimized to make Eles shine. Sounds like an luv child to me.

In the effort to balance Warriors vs Eles for PVP, Anet subtracted from Warriors and added to Eles.  You want to argue it is not so please try.

Edited by beadnbutter32, 19 January 2013 - 07:48 PM.


#191 Mitch

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:41 AM

View Postbeadnbutter32, on 19 January 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

Yes I have played an Ele all the way to level 80.

Nuke and kite city.

As long as an Ele has space to kite in, its faceroll easy.

Less space bring out the control skills.

No other class has so many options in combat. Nada.

Tons of control stills, lots of ranged attacks, did I mention auto aim?

Plenty of heal skills as well.

Warrior has no such luxury, get up close and personal if you want to damage, and you better be on top of your attack tell reading and dodge skills or you can give it up. Equipped your GS or Axe when you really could use some control, well tough luck, your stuck, unlike the Ele who can swap attunements in a flash.
Anet purposely left hot weapon swapping out since it would negate the attunement swapping advantage that Elementalists enjoy.

All those warrior healing skills, all one of them to choose from.  Shouts heal may help your squishy team mates, but no where near the ball park of Ele self heals.  Heavy Armor in a scheme designed to penalize tanking, scratch that advantage.  Re-designing MMO combat in a way that negates tanking means optimizing it for casters and kiting. GW2s combat is optimized to make Eles shine. Sounds like an luv child to me.

In the effort to balance Warriors vs Eles for PVP, Anet subtracted from Warriors and added to Eles.  You want to argue it is not so please try.

You do realize you're quoting a 4 month old post right? Just saying...

#192 Rezo

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 11:11 AM

How can anybody whine about balance in case of a warriors?It is most balanced class for pve and pvp.Try playing necro or engi for example in WvW.

Edited by Rezo, 20 January 2013 - 11:21 AM.


#193 Mitch

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 01:22 PM

View PostRezo, on 20 January 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

How can anybody whine about balance in case of a warriors?It is most balanced class for pve and pvp.Try playing necro or engi for example in WvW.

I'm talking about PvP, WvW is not real PvP.

#194 MrForz

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:54 PM

View PostRezo, on 20 January 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

How can anybody whine about balance in case of a warriors?It is most balanced class for pve and pvp.Try playing necro or engi for example in WvW.

Well, Necro and Engi are balanced, I don't really get your point.

#195 Smellyead

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:04 PM

View PostRezo, on 20 January 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

How can anybody whine about balance in case of a warriors?It is most balanced class for pve and pvp.Try playing necro or engi for example in WvW.

WvW isn't a major problem for Warriors.

sPvP/tPvP is where Warriors are next to useless compared to other professions.

#196 Lilly32

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 09:13 PM

View PostSeras, on 12 January 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

Maybe warriors aren't as good in tPvP, but 95% of the time I have the highest points in my sPvP matches, sometimes by huge margins

The massive majority of people in sPvP are just people messing around with different characters to see if they will like playing it as an alt. Look at the ranks of people in each match.  Only a few times have I even seen anyone over rank 30 and most of the time everyone is below 10. So basically you are bragging that you can kill a bunch of people trying out a class they have no clue how to play.  I do the same on my warrior.  I stack full crit and crit damage with absolutely 0 defense and go dual axes and spin to win for top points.  I melt eles and mesmers because like I said most of them have no clue what they are doing.  How well do you think that actually works in tournaments?

View PostMitch, on 20 January 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

You do realize you're quoting a 4 month old post right? Just saying...

So in those 4 months how have warriors been made better?

Edited by Lilly32, 06 February 2013 - 09:17 PM.


#197 Dirame

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:48 AM

View PostKam8T88, on 26 November 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

LOL @ whining warriors. Play a ranger. I guarantee your attitude will change about who is weak.

No. Warriors may have more options but Rangers are anything but weak.

Edited by Dirame, 07 February 2013 - 12:49 AM.


#198 Mitch

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:35 PM

View PostLilly32, on 06 February 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

So in those 4 months how have warriors been made better?

It's more that Eles have been made better, or at least people have learned how to build and play them, eles were considered (one of) the weakest professions 4-5 months ago, and now they're considered (one of) the strongest.




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