13 replies to this topic

[Dahk]

So, I've been working on fine tuning a good trap build for sPvP and this is what I have so far.  I don't play MMOs nearly as much as I used to, so I haven't had tons of time to test it out, but from my experience so far it seems to be doing pretty well.  I also always loved the playstyle of trap builds, going back to GW1.  Of course, there's always room for improvement, so I'm open to suggestions.

http://gw2skills.net...L7XuvkftCYEw DA
*edit* Build editor is being glitchy, but 30 point Skirmishing talent should be Trap Potency of course.

Some notes on this:

- I tried torch OH and swapping to a horn, but it just doesn't seem worth it, especially in a build where you get a fire combo field from the flame trap.
- I'm considering swapping the amulet for something with more defense, but I'm not sure yet.
- Yes, I've considered the poison trap, but it does roughly equal damage to the flame trap while taking a whoooole lot longer to deal it.  Flame trap is just better.
- Unguent was taken over Spring out of preference, but spring probably wouldn't be bad since there's not much condition removal in this.
- An alternative with more condition removal is to drop the 10 points in Marks and put it in WS for Empathetic Bond.

Cheers.

Edited by Dahk, 13 September 2012 - 01:22 PM.

[Garethh]

cripple>swiftness if you are trying to kite.
You don't get the movement speed buff from swiftness if you are sidestrafing or moving backwards, that means swiftness doesn't effect you if you are creating distance from an opponent while attacking.

You can if the opponent is crippled.

I've never been a fan of warhorn though, dagger has just always seemed better, but that is just my opinion.

I've also found shortbow, X/Y to usually not be that wonderful of survivability, you might want to think of ditching QZ for something more, like 'protect me' or 'lightning reflexes' or something of those likes.  Good thieves/warriors/eles will be able to deal with that one trap and your 1 leap back in the attempt at kiting, no questions asked.
(pet F2 abilities are a lil much to rely on at this point, they are fantastic when they work, but never to be completely relied on triggering when you need them to)

Edited by Garethh, 13 September 2012 - 02:26 PM.

[DalzK]

^
Agree with post above.

I also think its definitely worth it putting 10 more points in wilderness survival as I can see nearly no benefit putting those 10 points into markmanship/beastmastery instead as you have SO many better options then faster F2 recharge and Sharpening Stone at 75% hp.

And having a stun-break is just so important. I tried running this build with 3 traps as opposed to 2 traps + stunbreak and it was good....until thieves and warriors came and stunned + 2 second downed me, which is guaranteed to happen every game or so.

And using warhorn and swapping it out of combat for a torch is super worth it! Might take an hour or two to get used to it but trust me when you nail down the switching its easy as pie.

[Dahk]

The short bow already has a cripple, as does spiked trap, so a dagger is really just unnecessary redundancy, especially when swiftness does so much for map travel.

Also, this is a more offensive alternative to other builds out there.  If you weren't using traps, you would benefit more from the dagger crip and defensive utilities, but with traps and QZ, you burn down your enemy faster and don't need as much defense.  This is especially true for thieves since you can damage them when they're stealth using traps.  The F2 abilities aren't perfect, I agree, but they're a lot better now that they interrupt auto attack.

I'm all for good suggestions, but it sounds like you both are really just suggesting a non-trap build with defensive slot skills.

[Garethh]

Dahk, on 13 September 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

I'm all for good suggestions, but it sounds like you both are really just suggesting a non-trap build with defensive slot skills.

"you might want to think of ditching QZ for something more, like 'protect me' or 'lightning reflexes' or something of those likes"
---
The cripple on shortbow lasts 3 seconds, which is depressingly short when it comes to actual combat.  At very best crippling shot leaves the enemy crippled for a quarter of the fight.
The traps cripple is fantastic, but it also is cleansable, the trap can miss and people can dodge roll threw it so I like to have some other means of dealing with the situation if one of those happens (in comes dagger on its golden pedastol)

If you seem to work better without it, wonderful, you're a great player, maybe I just need it as a crutch for my kill-em-all playstyle.

Edited by Garethh, 13 September 2012 - 05:16 PM.

[Dahk]

Idk, I can see taking Protect Me as a viable alternative and I may switch to something like that if I start having survivability issues that would merit it (as I said, I haven't gotten as much play time as I would like, so I may just not be put up against skilled enough opponents yet), but QZ is a really hard ability to give up since you can get a huge burn on an enemy with it and the faster stomp often makes the difference between getting interrupted or not by an enemy's number 2 downed ability.

[Camsaiga]

I would not drop QZ if your using short bow as your main weapon. Between traps, range, endurance regen, SB 3 i think it is, I find I can kite all the melee classes without much of a problem.

Guardians take forever but is doable

Warriors are really easy to kite to death

Thieves are always hard but with traps and conditions I find you can control space and thus the thief and come out on top.

QZ allows for you to destroy people in a 1v1 situation and sometimes a 2v1. It allows you to put to good use not being seen and sniping people down before the enemy has to time to notice you and react.

For short bow primary I feel you just need to rely on kiting and controlling space which the ranger does well. In that sense Protect me is not needed. Yes it would make some fights easier if you messed up and let the warrior get on you or that thief was outplaying you, it gives you a second life. In the end I guess it depends on how good you are at kiting / controlling space / reading enemies.

Ice Trap is also good and between Ice Trap and Spike Trap you should be able to control things very well. I do like Fire for the damage and more conditions going but Ice is the safer bet if you feel you need it.

If you really need more survival I would consider Lightning Reflexes over Protect Me as well since you plays into your strengths of keeping distance and mobility over the enemy.

Lately I have been running Sword / Torch with Axe / Dagger as a means to play around with stuff that is not short bow focused. This setup has proven to be very strong so far and in it I use traps but drop QZ for protect me. I find QZ less vital in this setup but protect me allows me to enter into a melee brawl and do very very well. In fact I can easily beat warriors and thieves 1v1 as melee with this build. Protect Me along with your conditions and very high evasion / mobility lets you actually live and fight in a large prolonged melee brawl. This is impressive because the only profession that can do that well is the guardian and to a lesser extent the thief. A DPS warrior normally has no place in a prolonged fight and will just crumple.

[Garethh]

Camsaiga, on 13 September 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

For short bow primary I feel you just need to rely on kiting and controlling space which the ranger does well. In that sense Protect me is not needed. Yes it would make some fights easier if you messed up and let the warrior get on you

Shortbow only has a 3s cripple and a leap back that gives swiftness, a buff that doesn't actually help you kite (swiftness doesn't make you move faster while sidestrafing, you have to sidestrafe to attack the target and create distance between you and him, you would only get a movement speed buff while having swiftness up if you were facing facing directly away or towards your target, neither of which are really viable options if you are trying to win the fight)
Sure kiting bad or none dps warriors is a joke, but I've faught some classy *ss motherfr*ckers and they can keep the dps on you no matter how you juggle those 2 abilities (and spike trap).

For one, bolas, a 4s immobilize that if used at a close'ish distance gives extremely little indication its coming to dodge.. then... if it lands.. you kinda lose... no questions asked...
Whirlwind evades and so can be used to whip threw your traps, triggering them but not taking any dmg.
Rifle or longbow, with the 5s weapon swap, can be up near any time that he isn't using a gap closer or having you crippled (from say bladetrail)
Their elite signet (on a 60s CD) gives 30s of swiftness (along with might and fury) which actually benefits him since he is moving in the direction he's facing (towards you).  If he pops it (which with the 60s CD is next to every fight) shortbow has no answer at all... he will catch you in a few seconds without a gap closer (moving 40~% faster since you're sidestrafing and he's running forward).

If you don't think 'protect me' fits the feel of the spec you want to play, fair enough, but it does wonders if your actually fighting someone with a good idea of what they are doing

Oh and ya, thieves are even worse to kite if played well.
I've only had moderate luck against high end melee thief, and that's if I mostly sat in the one handed sword (to hornets sting, monarchs leap kite) with a few nice pet swapped QZ'd fears/knockdowns to give me time to sit them in traps.
10s in shortbow is nothing but suicide in those situations.

Edited by Garethh, 13 September 2012 - 10:54 PM.

[Garethh]

Camsaiga, on 13 September 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

A DPS warrior normally has no place in a prolonged fight and will just crumple.

...
Endure pain acts in the same way, if not better, than 'protect me'
Whirlwind evades, comparably to serpents strike
Rifle/bow has a longer range it can deal its optimal dmg at yet pulls typically much better dmg than axe.
...

I'm not saying warriors are perfect (they're far from it) just pointing out everything your missing.

Edited by Garethh, 13 September 2012 - 11:06 PM.

[FBRin]

I will second the sword/torch + axe/dagger setup at least. Been trying this out and really like it. Check it out for your condition builds if you haven't already. Though I think I tilt more on the axe/dagger side and just didn't want to double up on axe. Might even be better with axe/torch and axe/dagger.

[Garethh]

FBRin, on 13 September 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

I will second the sword/torch + axe/dagger setup at least. Been trying this out and really like it. Check it out for your condition builds if you haven't already. Though I think I tilt more on the axe/dagger side and just didn't want to double up on axe. Might even be better with axe/torch and axe/dagger.

Axe is extremely shaky, you have to be close for it to be at all useful.
It's like putting all your eggs in one basket, a close ranged shotgun burst.
It's phenomenal if you get down landing it, just a bit too reliant on being close and an anoying CD length (6s, usually with little to do on the weapon in the mean time)

I've really started to like shortbow-sword/dagger again with fire/spike trap and 'protect me'.  It's just such solid set, it can handle next to any situation if you play it well and don't mind taking your time with some kiting when need be.

Edited by Garethh, 14 September 2012 - 01:04 AM.

[Camsaiga]

As for warriors and them sticking to you, I guess it depends. Like I said for me personally they are not that hard, im only rank 16 but I feel that gives me enough expertise to comment. Yes I have fought against some amazing ones and yes if caught off guard good chance Im going to be insta killed. Again depends on how Im running my ranger, I find were fairly tanky without having to go well out of our way to be so.

Natural Vigor and sigil of energy let me dodge roll constantly. Companions defense gives protection. Shared Anguish helps to stop a warrior from getting his combo off if you fail to dodge it. Primal Reflexes for vigor when your hit by a crit, I dunno lots of small things that add up to a fair bit of durability.

As for kiting it is more of a traps down, roll through target, kite, trap, side roll, shoot myself back, trap, dodge roll again. Roots if ever needed. Were not glass cannon and were putting out steady conditions and high damage if using QZ. So while that warrior is having to constantly move and try to close the gap your getting off free damage.

When I run Shortbow I also run double spiders and I find that since patch their F2 is far more responsive ^^

As for thieves, they are hard to kite because they have superior gap closing abilities and their big damage ability does not require setup nor root them in place. Thieves are a lot more difficult and if they have haste up you lose end of story. If they dont then how it normally plays out...

Thief launches onto me, I do my best to evade Heartseekers while laying down damage, they will stealth...I lay traps which gives them away before they exit stealth and allows me to know where to dodge roll to and what direction to launch myself back to give me some breathing room. These fight are close but thieves are very soft and normally just holding them off buys me enough time for my conditions to turn the tide in my favor.

Now if your going the melee build Im running now you can pretty much just go toe to toe with warriors and win as your highly evasive and if hit by 100b you will live through it and should be able to then kill the warrior. Thieves is same old same old and still much harder to beat.

I don't find a dps warrior able to live long in a prolonged melee battle. A guardian is the best at this as they can stay in a fight and move into the next one thanks to their durability and support abilities. A thief can do this thanks to stealth. A warrior simply can't. They will go in and hope to get their combo off and then proceed to die or be forced to exit the fight, they don't have enough durability or utility as DPS to stay in prolonged engagements. A ranger I feel can, sure they share similar tools to stay alive but the ranger is far far more evasive and can "Dance" around in the battle where as the warrior cant unless they flat out leave the fight. Which is more assassin like then a fighter.

As for Axe as your "main" weapon, I dunno how that would work out....as a secondary weapon set I feel it is great but lacks enough damage or utility to be used as your primary. Winters Bite and Splitblade both have longer CD's. Double axe is sorta ehhh, the # 4 skill is a bit lackluster which leaves axe 5 which can be really good but I dunno. Axe is good for it does imo as a secondary set, now if they could buff Longbow and Great sword we would be set.

[Dahk]

Camsaiga, on 14 September 2012 - 05:47 AM, said:

Thief launches onto me, I do my best to evade Heartseekers while laying down damage, they will stealth...I lay traps which gives them away before they exit stealth and allows me to know where to dodge roll to and what direction to launch myself back to give me some breathing room. These fight are close but thieves are very soft and normally just holding them off buys me enough time for my conditions to turn the tide in my favor.

This is hands down my favorite thing about traps.  It sucks losing the defensive slot skills, but being able to see stealthed thieves is awesome.

[Garethh]

Camsaiga, on 14 September 2012 - 05:47 AM, said:

As for warriors and them sticking to you, I guess it depends. Like I said for me personally they are not that hard, im only rank 16 but I feel that gives me enough expertise to comment. Yes I have fought against some amazing ones and yes if caught off guard good chance Im going to be insta killed. Again depends on how Im running my ranger, I find were fairly tanky without having to go well out of our way to be so.

The vast, vast majority of warriors suck.
I've only had the chance to fight 1 dps warrior (I'm rank 26, almost 27 atm) in a somewhat even contest that could manage to deal with my ranger, and it was a friend who was a top PvP'er in WAR for months.

Edited by Garethh, 17 September 2012 - 10:15 PM.