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Tired of Thieves?

spvp necromancer necro wells conditions staff scepter build

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#1 Majii

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 08:52 PM

After using the usual conditionmancer specs and getting wrecked by heartseeker theives just spamming 1 button to kill me with a last ditch effort to save the Necromancer class that I love so much, I feel like I may have found the golden ticket so to speak. This build uses wells for the survivability and really just makes this a very tanky spec that deals some pretty darn good damage I have to say. Anyway, if your out of hope for necromancer or just bored right now I challenge all of you to give this a try, you won't be disappointed.

http://gw2skills.net...JbTumkNtIYEwOAA

The jist is this, melee will come after you, heck your a necro everyone will come after you. Just be patient with your wells and if its 2v1 or larger, I tend to use the staff more often. Make sure to always gain regen from mark of blood, it's very easy to keep it up at all times. If a thief attacks me I just usually stand there, drop well of darkness and just put marks on top of myself, most of the time they won't even realize they are about to die which gives for a good chance to fear and kill them before they get to use their heal. Even warriors are stunned by how little damage they will do to you, this spec eats melee alive. Playing other classes that tend to use the heal early messed me up when first playing necro so I would like to give this advice, be patient with your heal, sometimes I wont even use it untill I'm down to 9k hp. If you have enough conditions it will usually full heal you, this is the single most important thing with necro I think...just be patient.

This can be altered for less tankyness by changing the amulet to rabid and at the same time changing weapon sigils for bleed on crit which is a nice damage boost but in all honesty I don't find it necessary. The goal is to make thieves and warriors call us OP, remember this....DESTROY ALL MELEE!!!!!

If anyone has any questions or suggestions please let me know. I'm not saying this build is as perfect as it can be but it really makes a night and day difference to me coming from conditionmancer. There is a power based build, no crit, with wells but I really liked the conditions better.

#2 buddhist21

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 04:57 PM

I don't know about you but I find Thiefs to be free kills.

#3 Rivertold

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 05:04 PM

vs Melee you should take Reaper's protection instead of Ritual of Protection - ritual is kinda bad, tbh. Also bad - Vampiric rituals - siphon mechanics are currently so bad it makes you wanna cry.

Otherwise not bad. If I were you, I'd put 10 pts from blood to Curses for the condition damage

#4 Sixteen

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:49 AM

View Postbuddhist21, on 14 September 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

I don't know about you but I find Thiefs to be free kills.

Same here... Condition build with ~1800 toughness can drop thieves without too much effort. Even if you screw something up plague form basically lets you reset the fight.

#5 Kelarmz

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:15 AM

I find HS thieves/PW thieves (i.e. 95% of thieves) to be very easy to kill as a conditionmancer even when my main build is completely focused on aoe and teamfights at the expense of 1v1 power.  They have very little defense against conditions and your bleeds tick on them while they're stealthed.  A couple dodges and a blind later, he's on the ground.  Maybe it's just because most of these thieves are braindead fotm rerolls, but I find them to be practically the easiest kills of all in spvp.

Edited by Kelarmz, 18 September 2012 - 02:16 AM.


#6 eyston

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:56 AM

Thieves suck when you are in a big skirmish and they can just pounce and unload 10k.  It is frustrating because in 1v1 you can tell how terrible this guy is, but when you are fighting with 5-6 other people and at half health its annoying when that same thief can wander into the fight and spam kill you.

It also sucks because when you come onto a skirmish your instinct is to focus the thieves because they are annoying.  Except you can't.  You get 2-3 hits on a thief then you lose target, and there is no point stacking conditions on someone you can't keep targeted to spread them from.

1v1 I just drop marks and sceptre / dagger AOE's and dodge and they either die or run away.  It just requires my full attention.

At least you only run into thieves rarely in 8v8.

#7 Mind123

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 04:31 AM

View PostMajii, on 13 September 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

After using the usual conditionmancer specs and getting wrecked by heartseeker theives just spamming 1 button to kill me with a last ditch effort to save the Necromancer class that I love so much, I feel like I may have found the golden ticket so to speak. This build uses wells for the survivability and really just makes this a very tanky spec that deals some pretty darn good damage I have to say. Anyway, if your out of hope for necromancer or just bored right now I challenge all of you to give this a try, you won't be disappointed.

http://gw2skills.net...JbTumkNtIYEwOAA

The jist is this, melee will come after you, heck your a necro everyone will come after you. Just be patient with your wells and if its 2v1 or larger, I tend to use the staff more often. Make sure to always gain regen from mark of blood, it's very easy to keep it up at all times. If a thief attacks me I just usually stand there, drop well of darkness and just put marks on top of myself, most of the time they won't even realize they are about to die which gives for a good chance to fear and kill them before they get to use their heal. Even warriors are stunned by how little damage they will do to you, this spec eats melee alive. Playing other classes that tend to use the heal early messed me up when first playing necro so I would like to give this advice, be patient with your heal, sometimes I wont even use it untill I'm down to 9k hp. If you have enough conditions it will usually full heal you, this is the single most important thing with necro I think...just be patient.

This can be altered for less tankyness by changing the amulet to rabid and at the same time changing weapon sigils for bleed on crit which is a nice damage boost but in all honesty I don't find it necessary. The goal is to make thieves and warriors call us OP, remember this....DESTROY ALL MELEE!!!!!

If anyone has any questions or suggestions please let me know. I'm not saying this build is as perfect as it can be but it really makes a night and day difference to me coming from conditionmancer. There is a power based build, no crit, with wells but I really liked the conditions better.

This was pretty much the same build  i used a couple days ago trait wise, although I prefer well targeting to help out my allies as well as having the range aoe blind for range users, I ended up tweaking it and found:

http://gw2skills.net...TumkNt8YEwGjZHA

Shamans Amulet is the way to go for well or condition builds right now imo.... 2 spectral armors allow for quick LF regen for a more reliable DS as well as the 25% slower LF drain. Both consume conditions and well of blood work wonders but i prefer well of blood for the extra ticks as well as projectile finisher cleanse conditions for myself and allies.

Currently experimenting with blood is power instead of corrupt boon, they both work really well possibly with blood is power coming out ahead by a little because it's less situational then corrupt boon as well as adding LF, but corrupt boon is still very very usefull although buggy....The other wells (corruption and power) are nice but i think there are better options...but they do work! I pretty much have a standard rotation down for tanking 2 or more players it includes alot of blinds and fears lol. And yah theifs are a non issue now although the class is stupid.

Edited by Mind123, 18 September 2012 - 05:05 AM.


#8 Draecor

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 06:02 AM

My standard Condition build beats them no matter what spec. Thiefs don't have enough condi removal to stop us. They have like 2 abilities.

#9 vernue

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 07:09 PM

View PostMajii, on 13 September 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

After using the usual conditionmancer specs and getting wrecked by heartseeker theives just spamming 1 button to kill me with a last ditch effort to save the Necromancer class that I love so much, I feel like I may have found the golden ticket so to speak. This build uses wells for the survivability and really just makes this a very tanky spec that deals some pretty darn good damage I have to say. Anyway, if your out of hope for necromancer or just bored right now I challenge all of you to give this a try, you won't be disappointed.

http://gw2skills.net...JbTumkNtIYEwOAA

The jist is this, melee will come after you, heck your a necro everyone will come after you. Just be patient with your wells and if its 2v1 or larger, I tend to use the staff more often. Make sure to always gain regen from mark of blood, it's very easy to keep it up at all times. If a thief attacks me I just usually stand there, drop well of darkness and just put marks on top of myself, most of the time they won't even realize they are about to die which gives for a good chance to fear and kill them before they get to use their heal. Even warriors are stunned by how little damage they will do to you, this spec eats melee alive. Playing other classes that tend to use the heal early messed me up when first playing necro so I would like to give this advice, be patient with your heal, sometimes I wont even use it untill I'm down to 9k hp. If you have enough conditions it will usually full heal you, this is the single most important thing with necro I think...just be patient.

This can be altered for less tankyness by changing the amulet to rabid and at the same time changing weapon sigils for bleed on crit which is a nice damage boost but in all honesty I don't find it necessary. The goal is to make thieves and warriors call us OP, remember this....DESTROY ALL MELEE!!!!!

If anyone has any questions or suggestions please let me know. I'm not saying this build is as perfect as it can be but it really makes a night and day difference to me coming from conditionmancer. There is a power based build, no crit, with wells but I really liked the conditions better.


Actually, the issue with the wells is that people usually just walk out of them, intentionally or not.
In the situation you describe, only the Well of Blood can make any difference - but it's really hard to pull it off when you can cast it only once during the fight (with 48s CD).

Also, I'm not sure about late healing, even as a Necro.
I usually heal early (but not overheal), so the CD starts ticking and I can get another heal sooner.

Finally, keep in mind that Condition Damage scales bad; the only way to put pressure on the opponent is to maximize Precision (so you can get free Bleed procs) and Bleed Duration (so you can get ca. 10-11 ticks / bleed),
That's why I'm not sold on Shaman's amulet (vs. Rabid), runes of undead (vs. 3/3 aff/krait) and not getting +33% Scepter cond. duration.

View PostMind123, on 18 September 2012 - 04:31 AM, said:

This was pretty much the same build  i used a couple days ago trait wise, although I prefer well targeting to help out my allies as well as having the range aoe blind for range users, I ended up tweaking it and found:

http://gw2skills.net...TumkNt8YEwGjZHA

Shamans Amulet is the way to go for well or condition builds right now imo.... 2 spectral armors allow for quick LF regen for a more reliable DS as well as the 25% slower LF drain. Both consume conditions and well of blood work wonders but i prefer well of blood for the extra ticks as well as projectile finisher cleanse conditions for myself and allies.

Currently experimenting with blood is power instead of corrupt boon, they both work really well possibly with blood is power coming out ahead by a little because it's less situational then corrupt boon as well as adding LF, but corrupt boon is still very very usefull although buggy....The other wells (corruption and power) are nice but i think there are better options...but they do work! I pretty much have a standard rotation down for tanking 2 or more players it includes alot of blinds and fears lol. And yah theifs are a non issue now although the class is stupid.

Allow me to share some feedback:
- Vital Persistence doesn't really go with Condition based Necro, as you don't really want to stay in DS for longer than needed (to fire off Fear or survive that unexpected Pistol Whip)
- Last Gasp doesn't offer Protection (unlike regular Spectral Armor - no idea if it's a bug or not); besides, you don't want to get hit as a Condition Necro
- without some reliable condition removal, this build is easily eaten alive by any condition based opponent
+ some points mentioned above

Thieves just require some attention, but can be beaten.
Unlike some good Mesmers...

#10 Arkis_WPvP

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 07:27 PM

View PostDraecor, on 18 September 2012 - 06:02 AM, said:

My standard Condition build beats them no matter what spec. Thiefs don't have enough condi removal to stop us. They have like 2 abilities.

Pretty much. I play a thief and if I'm playing someone decent in a 1v1 it can be hell if they start stacking conditions. I always have shadowstep and my stealth heal, so I can remove quite a bit but that's with a 50/30 seconds CD respectfully, so I'm out of tricks pretty quick.

That said, I don't run HS spam or PW; I'm more concerned with evading/hiding from all damage and just doing hit-run and backstabs, so it can be hard to apply conditions on me at times.

I like your idea, OP, because I actually use black-powder (the small AoE blind from a pistol, for those who don't know) against a lot of classes which means I'm all about getting face-to-face, and if you were spamming all those wells/marks I'd think twice before engaging as I normally would.

I would say though, that as good as that build might be, against a good player it's your timing and placement of fear that's going to make the biggest difference, because between scorpion wire (it's the ranged grab ability, which most thieves don't have) and shortbow (which every thief has) we still have options; though of course the spammers won't think of these things.

#11 Mind123

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:02 PM

View Postvernue, on 18 September 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

Actually, the issue with the wells is that people usually just walk out of them, intentionally or not.
In the situation you describe, only the Well of Blood can make any difference - but it's really hard to pull it off when you can cast it only once during the fight (with 48s CD).

Also, I'm not sure about late healing, even as a Necro.
I usually heal early (but not overheal), so the CD starts ticking and I can get another heal sooner.

Finally, keep in mind that Condition Damage scales bad; the only way to put pressure on the opponent is to maximize Precision (so you can get free Bleed procs) and Bleed Duration (so you can get ca. 10-11 ticks / bleed),
That's why I'm not sold on Shaman's amulet (vs. Rabid), runes of undead (vs. 3/3 aff/krait) and not getting +33% Scepter cond. duration.



Allow me to share some feedback:
- Vital Persistence doesn't really go with Condition based Necro, as you don't really want to stay in DS for longer than needed (to fire off Fear or survive that unexpected Pistol Whip)
- Last Gasp doesn't offer Protection (unlike regular Spectral Armor - no idea if it's a bug or not); besides, you don't want to get hit as a Condition Necro
- without some reliable condition removal, this build is easily eaten alive by any condition based opponent
+ some points mentioned above

Thieves just require some attention, but can be beaten.
Unlike some good Mesmers...

Thanks for the feedback and I dont want to say your wrong, but your not necessarily right either, If you look closely I choose the shamans amulet over rabids amulet for the fact that I am built to tank, with this in mind LF makes all the difference in terms of being able to bunker well....which yes I can bunker just as effectively as a guardian, I have gone toe to toe with them and won many times. I've also been able to bunker against many waves of enemy players because my LF gain is extremely quick. I have deathly swarm and putrid mark plus projectile finisher in my well of blood to remove conditions, I usally dont have any problems with them at all, its all about knowing when to transfer them to your enemy.

Edited by Mind123, 18 September 2012 - 09:09 PM.






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: spvp, necromancer, necro, wells, conditions, staff, scepter, build

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