26 replies to this topic

[mdc124]

I recently changed to a longbow and sword/axe pve leveling build and started using Healing Spring on my friend's advice.As nice as Healing Spring is, at least half the time I use it, my pet isn’t within the circle, since I try to play at range. I’m assuming it only heals me and my pet if we’re in the circle, which is pretty limiting for a class based on range and kiting. I can’t strafe much while still remaining in the circle, either. Maybe it affects my pet and I mainly if I shoot through the combo field, which causes regeneration? But wouldn’t that apply regeneration to me and not my pet?

Can you help me to better understand how this works, and whether it's even appropriate for this weapon set?

[GSSB Lunaspike]

mdc124, on 14 September 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

I recently changed to a longbow and sword/axe pve leveling build and started using Healing Spring on my friend's advice.As nice as Healing Spring is, at least half the time I use it, my pet isn’t within the circle, since I try to play at range. I’m assuming it only heals me and my pet if we’re in the circle, which is pretty limiting for a class based on range and kiting. I can’t strafe much while still remaining in the circle, either. Maybe it affects my pet and I mainly if I shoot through the combo field, which causes regeneration? But wouldn’t that apply regeneration to me and not my pet?

Can you help me to better understand how this works, and whether it's even appropriate for this weapon set?

I would say it's main advantage is for melee rangers. We have several ways to benefit from the combo field while in melee.

1) Sword hornet sting/leap which activates the combo finisher leap effect of water
2) GS has two combo effects, it has combo finisher projectile, and combo finisher leap in it. Projectile grants regeneration and leap is the heal
3) if you go with axe it also has a few combo finishers that benefit from it. Whirling Defense is a combo finisher whirl also.

I don't really get the stand back and kite playstyle. It seems to waste the major advantages that a ranger has. It also heals anyone in an aoe with you, and it does grant the various field effects based on what combo finishers they are using.

With sword/axe you have the following combo finishers that can benefit from the water field.

Monarch's Leap is combo finisher leap.
Path of Scars is combo finisher projectile
Whirling Defense is combo finisher whirl

So if you did something like go in, hit 6, then f2 (depending on the pet the Lynx and Snow Leopard both get a combo finisher leap off this) then immediately hit 2 twice. This will trigger the field. It lasts for 15 seconds so at that point you can do path of scars or if you are taking some damage hit whirling defense.

If you are going to go with longbow though you have potentially 4 combo finishers, 1 of them is at reduced effect. When those trigger they will grant YOU regeneration. The regeneration will stack in duration, but NOT INTENSITY.

The wiki gives the formula as

1.625*Level + 0.0625*Healing Power per second

[Desert Rose]

Healing Spring is more of a group skill so that other characters can use the water combo field for AoE heals; in my experience for solo PvE Troll Unguent is better.

[Liru]

Desert Rose, on 14 September 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

Healing Spring is more of a group skill so that other characters can use the water combo field for AoE heals; in my experience for solo PvE Troll Unguent is better.

However, Trolls doesn't have condition removal, unless I'm mistaken - Healing Spring is great to remove that pesky 30sec cripple.

[Specialz]

Liru, on 14 September 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

However, Trolls doesn't have condition removal, unless I'm mistaken - Healing Spring is great to remove that pesky 30sec cripple.

I used healing spring as my condition removal in PvE. The healing is just a bonus. Generally, in most situations that I need a heal for is usually related to conditions.

[OnePunkArmy]

Liru, on 14 September 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

However, Trolls doesn't have condition removal, unless I'm mistaken - Healing Spring is great to remove that pesky 30sec cripple.

Neither does Heal As One. With only two ways for Rangers to remove conditions, I always just ignore conditions. No condition has really hampered me that much since day 1.

[MrKayako]

Love the healing spring, I don't know for you but the direct heal of the healing spring always heals my pet even if is not whitin the circle. The fact that it's a combo field makes it great in groups, and the conditions removal in solo PvE is not that important tho sometimes you do feel the difference, I'm not a fan of trolls cause you have no direct heal and it can't save you from burst of damage. I love being able to remove conditions on me especially immobilize.

But for solo PvE everythings fine, because rangers are great for solo PvE, but Pvp and dungeon I never go out without my healing spring, but that's just one man's opinion ^^

[Ravnodaus]

I don't think it matters how far your pet is for any of your heals to heal it. It just does it.

What it won't get if not in the ring, is the regeneration pulses. But it will still get the direct heal.

There are pros and ons to each of the heals, use the one that best fits your style and spec, and for what you're doing.

Ex. Doesn't matter what spec you are, not brnging healing spring into a dungeon run is a bad call. Water combo fields are awesome, and this one lasts 15 seconds...doubly amazing really. It can increase your parties survival rate a ton.

[Venofalke]

mdc124, on 14 September 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

I recently changed to a longbow and sword/axe pve leveling build and started using Healing Spring on my friend's advice.As nice as Healing Spring is, at least half the time I use it, my pet isn’t within the circle, since I try to play at range. I’m assuming it only heals me and my pet if we’re in the circle, which is pretty limiting for a class based on range and kiting. I can’t strafe much while still remaining in the circle, either. Maybe it affects my pet and I mainly if I shoot through the combo field, which causes regeneration? But wouldn’t that apply regeneration to me and not my pet?

Can you help me to better understand how this works, and whether it's even appropriate for this weapon set?

With all due respect, and I wish I could sound... not aggressive, but:

Of course if your pet isn't going to be anywhere near you if it's melee and you're ranged. Of course if it's an AoE heal it's only going to heal you AND your pet if your pet's inside it. And, I don't have much experience with water fields using bows but I assume it's gonna grant regeneration to the allies the projectile passes through. I don't know.

But really though if you're using bows and you like to keep your (assuming melee) pet alive over other people who might be near you, this heal is obviously not for you.

Sorry for my tone, but "...my pet if we’re in the circle, which is pretty limiting for a class based on range and kiting..." is rather irritating to read, as in the case of rangers, this isn't true, and I personally prefer to use melee setups on my ranger.

Edited by Venofalke, 18 September 2012 - 11:59 PM.

[Nildey]

Actually, when you use the projectile finisher (which is used by the longbow), the combo effect with healing spring heals all allies attacking the target. So that does work for ranged and pets as well.

[Dahk]

If you want your pet in the spring, you could always run with a ranged pet (spider/devourer).

[Trei]

Does the combo projectile bolts regen as much as standing in the field itself though?

[Jakerzi]

Dahk, on 18 October 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

If you want your pet in the spring, you could always run with a ranged pet (spider/devourer).

I was gonna suggest this. QZ + devourer is nice too, could always try to build off that.

[xarallei]

I don't like it for solo pve. Unless you are playing a mainly melee ranger it's just not that great to me. Even with projectile finishers granting regen it's weak in comparison with the other two heals if you are just wanting to heal your pet. It is really nice in WvW though, so that's where I use it. Guessing it's good for dungeons too though I don't do dungeons so can't say much on that.

[Hypernucleus]

Dahk, on 18 October 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

If you want your pet in the spring, you could always run with a ranged pet (spider/devourer).

Actually it will always heal your pet even if they're way out of range, try it!

[Trei]

Hypernucleus, on 24 October 2012 - 04:09 AM, said:

Actually it will always heal your pet even if they're way out of range, try it!

Are you talking about the heal on activation or the subsequent regen ticks after?
If you are talking about the latter, are you also shooting projectiles through/from the spring at the same target your pet is attacking?

[Hypernucleus]

Trei, on 24 October 2012 - 04:55 AM, said:

Are you talking about the heal on activation or the subsequent regen ticks after?If you are talking about the latter, are you also shooting projectiles through/from the spring at the same target your pet is attacking?

Heal on activation, the regen not so sure on.

Edited by Hypernucleus, 24 October 2012 - 07:06 AM.

[theSollith]

I personally really dislike healing spring since I mainly use a longbow... I prefer to use troll unguent. I just wish we could remove conditions and stuff a bit better, currently we either have to: sacrifice our pet or use healing spring.

I don't like healing spring (because you have to stay in such a small area and if you are ranged, then your pet see's only a small amount of the healing due to not getting any of the regen/etc.) and sacrificing your pet just to remove conditions from yourself just seems dumb...

Also, I really dislike melee in this game as all it is a modified version of the old click/tab targeting system; sure you have movement now, but there is like no footwork within the skills themselves; proper footwork when striking is a HUGE part of real martial arts and melee combat. I'm not talking about leaps, but basic strikes should have an advance step in them. I don't know, it's not bad I guess; just looks and feels weird to me since I have done both Kendo and Fencing (about a year in each so far) where the importance of proper footwork is heavily emphasized in both (in fact you can't even score a point in kendo without the proper attack step).

The longbows and other ranged weapons are a little better feeling in my opinion, but they still lack proper and realistic movement. When you are readying to fire that bow/gun/etc. you are going to slow down a bit from your normal running speed, even stopping, to steady that shot enough to hit your target. They do this a bit with some of the ranged attacks, which is why I say that its a bit better than the melee side of things.

Anyways, I digress...

@OP

If you are going to run a longbow and sword/axe combo I do suggest scrapping healing spring for troll unguent as it will help your pet out quite a bit more than healing spring while ranged. I also use a longbow an sword/axe (although in areas where projectile attacks aren't as common I switch to a warhorn); with two wolves (one alpine and one grey) and a focus on quickness. I use a 20/20/20/0/10 build that allows me to get some good traits across the board for both my longbow, sword/axe, and survival skills as well as a decent balance between power, crit and toughness to deal out some decent damage while not being completely squishy. It's worked out really well for me so far, so maybe give it a shot at some point if you plan to continue with those weapons.

Edited by theSollith, 24 October 2012 - 07:04 AM.

[Dahk]

Hypernucleus, on 24 October 2012 - 05:01 AM, said:

Heal on activation, the regen not so sure on.

Yea, unless you have the talent to share boons with your pet, it's just the heal on activation that it benefits from.

[Trei]

Despite the 20% combo chance for projectiles, I seldom see the combo'd regen my pet get from me shooting thru the spring to target drop off.
My pet does still benefit almost just as much from the spring even if it is not standing in it, as long as I keep the regen combo up.

[Dahk]

Yea, if you're talking solo PvE, I don't think Healing Spring is that worthwhile, but in dungeons/group PvE, it's pretty awesome.

[Aetou]

Recently I've been running Sword/Warhorn alongside Longbow for Orr and when you can get two leaps off in it the total heal from HS becomes far better than any of the alternatives.  Remember also that you can move forward a little, drop HS so the edge just covers the enemies/your pet and then back up to stand at the back edge of it to still give yourself quite a lot of distance to play with (480 units.)  Obviously the more people you have and the more finishers the better HS becomes but even solo it can do very strong healing.

[shiko]

Healing spring in PvE will be your main source of condition removal, and it is better than healing as one, although on a longer cooldown, it will heal your pet regardless of where it is when you initially drop it. On the other hand, you or your pet will not get the condition removal if you aren't standing inside of the circle, and neither will your pet if it isn't in it either. The spring however pulses and during those pulses grants reg for a few seconds and removes a condition, meaning you can run in and out of it every few seconds to get the full effect, and call your pet in and out of the circle.

Normally if you are ranged, you could run close enough into range of your melee pet and drop it there, so that your pet(whom will probably be the one taking most of the damage) could benefit from the regeneration and condition removal.

Also, in group play, this can be used to heal other teammates whom don't have regeneration skills, and also the water field it creates lasts for a good time, and as you shoot projectiles through it, on the finisher it heals allies.

[Rummy the Mad]

Honestly, HS is beastly - arguably the best heal in the game outside of some really niche situations.  I have a hard time justifying not taking HS, regardless of whether I'm playing PvE, PvP, or WvW.  You get better utility and up time than with TU (HS = Heal + 18s regen  + 15 condition removal pulses every 30s, not to mention it's AoE and allows for combo effects.  TU = 10 healing pulses every 25s), and if you are traited to gain vigor on heals, there is no better choice since that vigor will keep on popping up on every single pulse.

Also, as shiko described, your pet doesn't need to be anywhere near you for it to be healed, and you can easily kite in circles so that you can continuously dip your toes back into the spring periodically. There is absolutely no need to stay in one spot.  To top it off, it's a 15s water field, so any projectiles/leaps/slams spread healing effects around to allies (including your pet).  So really, the only reason that anyone needs to be in the field is for combos and condition removal.

It's not even that TU or HaO are bad healing skills - they're actually really good.  It's just that HS is like the Swiss Army knife of heals - if that knife also has a Cadillac attached.  The question should never be why are you bringing it.  It should be why aren't you.

[Daisy Rogers]

I had a hard time justifying it for the longest while when I was SB Axe/torch condi build. Only time I got in melee was when I pulled too much aggro and needed to drop down all the traps and bonfire and split blade to clean the floor. Troll Unguent was my friend and kept my bears up most time.

Now that I have a BM melee ranger, Healing Spring is Godly and I can fight just about forever. As people mentioned, on top of the best OT heal rangers it has, it also heals any friends near you, I've saved many strangers as well with just to be a nice guy. You also get epic levels of condi removal... and its a combo field which the ranger has a but load of finishers to use with it to even further spread the love.

In your current build I would suggest Healing spring. When its time for a heal either you or pet, switch to your melee set so you can dance in the spring, you've got a whirl finish with whirling defense, and leap with monarchs leap. sword itself also has some evasion to keep on the move while healing.

You can also call your pet back to you before dropping spring. Get some extra pew pew in before they come into melee range. (you'll have  to command your pet to attack again.)

[Dahk]

Yea, the GS buff was a nice indirect buff to HS.

[Daisy Rogers]

Random thing I found out while experimenting that works really well for PvE is if you are traited 15 into Wilderness survival and are traited to gain vigor on using healing skills you can keep protection semi permanently up for you and your pet. It becomes incredibly useful in stretching out the life of a pet if you are waiting for a swap and helps your pet survive dog piles if it is tanking for you. If you have multiple sources of regen coming as well your pet will be back to full in no time with the extra mitigation.

I've gotten into the habit of simply dodge rolling more even if I am not the one being attacked to help my pet tank through a massive hit. The 2 secs 33% damage mitigation go a long way in keeping your pet alive.

Edited by Daisy Rogers, 23 November 2012 - 06:54 PM.