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09/14 Patch: Mesmer... wait for it... buffs.

mesmer greatsword patch

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#1 Dastion

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:27 AM

In today's patch notes:
  • Deception: Movement now allowed after casting underwater.
  • Spatial Surge: Improved responsiveness.
  • Mind Stab: Improved responsiveness.

Deception is just an overdue bug-fix, but the Greatsword responsiveness buffs seem very good.  I reviewed some old footage of greatsword gameplay and my character would bring his arms all of the way back before attacking again, now his arms barely twitch back before attacking again.  Mind Stab is also crazy fast now, though the radius is still pitiful.

#2 LavaSquid

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 09:35 AM

View PostDastion, on 14 September 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

In today's patch notes:
  • Deception: Movement now allowed after casting underwater.
  • Spatial Surge: Improved responsiveness.
  • Mind Stab: Improved responsiveness.
Deception is just an overdue bug-fix, but the Greatsword responsiveness buffs seem very good.  I reviewed some old footage of greatsword gameplay and my character would bring his arms all of the way back before attacking again, now his arms barely twitch back before attacking again.  Mind Stab is also crazy fast now, though the radius is still pitiful.

lol good news for me, I just switch to GS build this week :)

#3 Sazgo

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 09:39 AM

Mindstab really needs a new animation now it looks really out of place at that speed ^.

#4 Six

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 09:41 AM

yep! I'd been avoiding using Mind Stab since the root is usually a death sentence in pvp, but after the patch, I was jumping around in Lion's Arch and decided to Mind Stab a guildy for fun... my jaw dropped! I thought maybe I had a lingering boon bug from popping Time Warp shortly beforehand, but after going into the Mists, I noticed the difference there too, so I took to the forums and saw the change ...life changing!

Quote

Mindstab really needs a new animation now it looks really out of place at that speed

agreed. the other abilities have a certain pacing to the animation, and the 1s animation for MS is too quick now, so it stands out. It's mostly the retraction of the blade from the ground that stands out, so if they could normalize that, it wouldn't be as noticeable.

if you are moving while you use it, there actually isn't a retraction animation; your character model just resets after it stabs into the ground. if you aren't moving while you use it, the retraction animation is there, but due to it's speed, it looks odd.

Edited by Six, 14 September 2012 - 09:47 AM.


#5 Retzilience

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 12:47 PM

Those are not buffs,

They are fixes, really.

#6 Onerios

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:07 PM

Not sure how you can call them anything but buffs. The auto attack animation was reduced by atleast a third, and feels more like almost a half, and mindstab now only roots you for half a second if you animation cancel its tail and is still fairly short even if you do not. As a result of both, dps went up and your vunerability went down. Kind of want to watch this since it may be deemed that now the animation is faster the damage will have to go down to compensate.

#7 Jairyn

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:08 PM

I love the GS improvements. Hopefully they now turn an eye toward scepter and torch. If scepter can't have confusion back on ether bolt or even ether clone, I still vote burning.

#8 Lastchime

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:12 PM

Suprised they didn't fix the torch derp roll yet.

#9 Shadowrose

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:14 PM

needs nerfs'

#10 Pysgasm

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 03:59 PM

View PostShadowrose, on 14 September 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

needs nerfs'

And 1v1 fights so we can beat the whiners with their own class.

#11 Lastchime

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 05:17 PM

View PostPysgasm, on 14 September 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

And 1v1 fights so we can beat the whiners with their own class.

Incredibly adept at helping others along to defeating themselves ;)

Edited by Lastchime, 14 September 2012 - 05:17 PM.


#12 Skyro

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 05:17 PM

Hmmm I will have to do some re-testing. Previously you would get 0.5 GS autoattack per second. If "increased responsiveness" means a faster attack rate that is a pretty nice bump to an auto-attack that was overshadowed by the staff's auto-attack in most situations.

#13 jondifool

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 05:22 PM

they are fixes , because before you could actual abort the skill and recast faster than waiting for animation to finish, because the damage was dealt midway.
http://www.reddit.co...ility_for_more/

#14 Gregor Sabetin

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 05:48 PM

For the first time I have fun playing the GS. It's rather impressive how such a little change can be effective.

#15 krispera

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 06:15 PM

Way better with GS now. I was playing GS before the patch and this one made life easier.
Also, for Spatial Surge, spam it, because you can get a little faster if you tap #1.

#16 Aryc

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 06:41 PM

do note that the GreatSword clones did not receive the attack speed change. It will be 'easier' to identify the mesmer in this case and it doesn't improve Sharper Images.

I feel like this is a great quality of life change, but ultimately doens't make/break any of the existing builds. If you liked GS b/f, you just get gravy. If you were on the fence, this is a reason to try it out again, but the mechanics are still the same except GS3 is now usable. GS3 doesn't have special synergy with any build so /shrug.

#17 Dastion

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 06:49 PM

Are people seriously arguing semantics? Buff, fix, who cares.

In my book they IMPROVED the responsiveness by reducing the animations.  That improvement is a direct buff to the greatsword.

Now things like Deception underwater, that's just a fix.  But how you can call marked improvement in DPS due to an animation improvement anything but a buff is beyond me, regardless of whether you could manage it by animation canceling tricks prior.

#18 Clockwork Bard

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 06:55 PM

But is Mind Stab still a tiny targeted AoE?  Responsiveness is nice.  I won't turn that down.  But I still lack the fine motor skills and spacial sense to hit consistently with that little circle.

#19 Chronos12360

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:26 PM

Like some have said buff . Fix. Who cares what its called because it made the weapon better. I was playing gs staff on clone death build prior to the patch and I hopped on this morning. Oh wow Im glad I stuck it out because the gs is now a force to be reckoned with lol. As far as landing Mind Stab just practice a little and you will get the reaction time. Now that its so quick its extremely easy to land even in tue most hectic of situations. One thing I wanted to ask everyone was Did anyone else notice a plain numbers buff on the gs skills? Id sware that nearly all the skills are hitting for a tad bit more... Especially crits. Maybe Im imaging it but it sure as hells seems like shit is exploding quicker than yesterday lol.

#20 dragonphlu

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 10:28 PM

I was enjoying GS before this patch and now it's even better! Woohoo!!!

Edit: Even though the animations are much shorter, think of it this way: To your opponents' eyes, it's so fast, it's like an illusion itself! ;)

I actually like how Spatial Surge doesn't show the "beam" and instead shows your gs glowing (electrifying) and your target. In pvp, it makes it more "confusion" for your opponent to find out which one is the real you (even though clones are attacking a little slower, but still).

2nd Edit: Oops, that "beam" is still there. It didn't show when I was testing it out on a practice dummy in Lion's Arch. >_<;

Edited by dragonphlu, 15 September 2012 - 04:56 AM.


#21 accord

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 01:33 AM

not exactly wut i m looking for, but anyway its a fix, its better then nothing :S

EDIT: after a little bit testing yesterday, it actually feels surprisingly good.

Edited by accord, 16 September 2012 - 03:02 AM.


#22 MindProd

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 05:35 AM

Not that I made detailed observations before but as I recall, before this patch, GS autoattack came in 3 distinct hits per channel. After the patch, it now comes in 3 hits that adds up to a grand total (similar to iWarden hits). The damage total itself wasn't changed, but I think it's just worth noting because at first, I was surprised on why I suddenly started seeing 700s when I normally do 200s.

But yeah, it definitely hits a LOT faster now than it did before.

On a little sidenote, I swear that it feels like Staff autoattack is also "more responsive" now (aka charges faster).

#23 Banker

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 07:16 AM

Even tho mesmer is bit too strong atm those "buffs" were needed. Imo their more fixes than buffs, lets face it, it was impossible to hit the gswords skills so this change just made the weapon what it should have been alrdy. But for the sake of the class i just hope they nerf phantasm dmg before we become as hated as thieves as a class...

#24 LordSpectreX

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 08:21 AM

View PostDastion, on 14 September 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

In my book they IMPROVED the responsiveness by reducing the animations.  That improvement is a direct buff to the greatsword.

You could always cancel Mind Stab with basic movement. It just felt awkward. It's not a buff. It is an improvement, but all bug fixes are improvements. The other is perhaps a buff but I haven't tried yet.

Edited by LordSpectreX, 15 September 2012 - 08:23 AM.


#25 Nibiru23

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 08:25 AM

View PostBanker, on 15 September 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

Even tho mesmer is bit too strong atm those "buffs" were needed. Imo their more fixes than buffs, lets face it, it was impossible to hit the gswords skills so this change just made the weapon what it should have been alrdy. But for the sake of the class i just hope they nerf phantasm dmg before we become as hated as thieves as a class...

i dont think Phantasm dmg needs to be reduced.

ISwordman traited ( power + precision) does a bit above 3k critical, Iduelist a bit less but adds more bleeds. If they reduce Phantasm damage is better playing with clones spamming condition (staff).

#26 jondifool

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 09:39 AM

View PostNibiru23, on 15 September 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

i dont think Phantasm dmg needs to be reduced.

ISwordman traited ( power + precision) does a bit above 3k critical, Iduelist a bit less but adds more bleeds. If they reduce Phantasm damage is better playing with clones spamming condition (staff).

Well i get the impression that in SpvP Mesmer is in general seen as among the if not actual the strongest profession, all because of phantasm damage. At the same times mesmer is not strong in DEs because of lack of AoE and weak ways to deliver damage fast enough in the first 4 seconds of a mobs life. (there is even people in this forum claiming to knock enemy targets out of friendly AoE to just get a chance to target a mob for enough damage to get exp/loot)
All this points at the phantasm mechanic needs change.

The best suggestion i have seen is to let mesmer do an attack like the phantasms when summoning them as part of the summon. That intial higher damage from having an attack from oth the mesmer and the phantasm, can give space to that phantasm damage is then is reduced. That in itself will also put shattering phantasm in closer range of being an viable option for more than the most exstreame shatter builds.

#27 Gregor Sabetin

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 12:09 PM

View Postjondifool, on 15 September 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

Well i get the impression that in SpvP Mesmer is in general seen as among the if not actual the strongest profession, all because of phantasm damage. At the same times mesmer is not strong in DEs because of lack of AoE and weak ways to deliver damage fast enough in the first 4 seconds of a mobs life. (there is even people in this forum claiming to knock enemy targets out of friendly AoE to just get a chance to target a mob for enough damage to get exp/loot)
All this points at the phantasm mechanic needs change.

Not the phantasm mechanic is to blame but the DEs one. I also started to push enemies away when too much people spam AoE in order to get some tags.

Phantasms are fragile (even more than clones?), attack at a low speed and don't do that much damage (3k on a crit isn't OP).Weaken them and mesmers will just be purple clowns.

#28 jondifool

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 12:26 PM

View PostGregor Sabetin, on 15 September 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

Not the phantasm mechanic is to blame but the DEs one. I also started to push enemies away when too much people spam AoE in order to get some tags.

Phantasms are fragile (even more than clones?), attack at a low speed and don't do that much damage (3k on a crit isn't OP).Weaken them and mesmers will just be purple clowns.

The long summonning time followed by a phantasm there shall just starting its attack makes it way to slow for DE's. But it doesn't look like you get the point of weakening phantasms? Because when you factor in this idea in that the mesmer himself deals an attack that is simmilar to the phantasms while he summons ( to do damage early), the overall damage will go up, and that is defently not balanced. And therefore the phantasm damage have to go down to balance that. The points is esactly to make the mesmer himself strong at the expence of phantasms .

#29 Banker

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 12:28 PM

View PostNibiru23, on 15 September 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

i dont think Phantasm dmg needs to be reduced.

ISwordman traited ( power + precision) does a bit above 3k critical, Iduelist a bit less but adds more bleeds. If they reduce Phantasm damage is better playing with clones spamming condition (staff).

iWarlock crits for 7k, iRogue goes way over 6k (DOWNED STATE...) iZerger 4k, iDuelist 3.5k + 0.5-1k bleed, and for me iSwordsman does about 4k and attacks very fast

And the problem with them is that you just pop em and they do all the work for you, as a condition built mesmer i have no way to take them down and keeping pressure on the actual mesmer.

#30 Gregor Sabetin

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 12:47 PM

View Postjondifool, on 15 September 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

The long summonning time followed by a phantasm there shall just starting its attack makes it way to slow for DE's. But it doesn't look like you get the point of weakening phantasms? Because when you factor in this idea in that the mesmer himself deals an attack that is simmilar to the phantasms while he summons ( to do damage early), the overall damage will go up, and that is defently not balanced. And therefore the phantasm damage have to go down to balance that. The points is esactly to make the mesmer himself strong at the expence of phantasms .

I don't see how that would help me getting some tags if I could attack like an iDuelist while summoning one.  I'd still shoot one target while an ele tags 10. We don't have reliable AoE (except Chaos Storm) and AoE are the dumb way to win in DEs i.e. DEs are broken not the mesmer.

Phantasms provide great and sustainable damage during a long fight and I like it (I don't like "burst"). Please don't break mesmer in PVE because people are struggling in PVP.





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