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#1 Guldur

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 05:20 PM

So, I have been playing the last couple of days as a warrior in tpvp and feel like I am playing the class the wrong way. Could you guys point me out a good build for consistent wins? From my research it looks like the warrior is best played as a support, with shout heals and hammer cc. What runes do I use in such build? What amulet and insignia? The traits go 10/0/30/30? Also it seems most people don't agree on the second weapon set, I feel axe/shield might be a good finisher if dps is needed, but not sure.

#2 Beowulf

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 12:48 AM

warrior is not viable for tpvp at the current meta game. but if you want the most successful tank build to support your team, i know the best "cap-defender" build that can compete with guardians. i dont have the link but i can create it for you, just a sec

EDIT: There you go mate, just remember, you are not a roamer and you are not dps, stick with your team, hold keep, graveyeard,clocktower , you can outlast many opponents 1v2, even 1v3 before your team arrives, or you can focus 1 enemy and keep him lick the grass for like 8 seconds.

http://gw2skills.net...LbWuskZtCZEyEEA

Edited by Beowulf, 15 September 2012 - 12:53 AM.


#3 selfconfessedcynic

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 09:34 AM

View PostBeowulf, on 15 September 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

warrior is not viable for tpvp at the current meta game.
...
http://gw2skills.net...LbWuskZtCZEyEEA
Okay, I completely disagree with the first statement - a number of people including myself have had quite a bit of success with a warrior in tPvP. It's so weird seeing the complete reversal on opinions about warriors recently, though the class itself has barely changed.

It's as if the buffs to the Mesmer and Thief have resulted in people going "well, I can't faceroll like I used to so eff it, we're not viable anymore". Additionally, many of the people who say that (I don't know what your stance on the matter, so I speak in generalities here) don't even realise that the warrior can actually face off rather splendidly against literally all other classes in their new states if you're utilising the right options.

Just silly.

For example, even though thieves are faster by default, when playing secondary roamer it's only 0-2s difference between myself and the opposition's thief getting to a point (eg the enemy local on Foefire), and I can bash their faces in when I get there. The whole "X class moves faster so they can roam better" thing is nonsense. Mesmers are now a tough matchup with my usual build (see below), but they're definitely not impossible and are actually getting easier as I learn what to look for.

Anyway, there are two particularly good warrior specs that I run, one of which is very close to the one posted.

My main - Secondary roamer and damage battery in group fights;
http://gw2skills.net...WuskZtKYUwmgJBA
It has great matchups against everything when solo (except mesmers, which is about 66/33 or 60/40 their way from the multiple I've faced). Obviously it can't solo a well built tank, but the tank can't kill it like they can other roamer builds. We still run an ele (soon to be mesmer) as our primary roamer though, as I tend to carve up in 2v2 and 3v3 situations, and am thus generally wanted there.

The second build I run is the obligatory tanky spec, with some damage to wear the enemy down;
http://gw2skills.net...WuskZtKYUw jJGA

ED: Woops, old links are old - updated  both.

Edited by selfconfessedcynic, 15 September 2012 - 09:40 AM.


#4 Beowulf

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 10:37 AM

View Postselfconfessedcynic, on 15 September 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

Okay, I completely disagree with the first statement - a number of people including myself have had quite a bit of success with a warrior in tPvP. It's so weird seeing the complete reversal on opinions about warriors recently, though the class itself has barely changed.

It's as if the buffs to the Mesmer and Thief have resulted in people going "well, I can't faceroll like I used to so eff it, we're not viable anymore". Additionally, many of the people who say that (I don't know what your stance on the matter, so I speak in generalities here) don't even realise that the warrior can actually face off rather splendidly against literally all other classes in their new states if you're utilising the right options.

Just silly.

For example, even though thieves are faster by default, when playing secondary roamer it's only 0-2s difference between myself and the opposition's thief getting to a point (eg the enemy local on Foefire), and I can bash their faces in when I get there. The whole "X class moves faster so they can roam better" thing is nonsense. Mesmers are now a tough matchup with my usual build (see below), but they're definitely not impossible and are actually getting easier as I learn what to look for.

Anyway, there are two particularly good warrior specs that I run, one of which is very close to the one posted.

My main - Secondary roamer and damage battery in group fights;
http://gw2skills.net...WuskZtKYUwmgJBA
It has great matchups against everything when solo (except mesmers, which is about 66/33 or 60/40 their way from the multiple I've faced). Obviously it can't solo a well built tank, but the tank can't kill it like they can other roamer builds. We still run an ele (soon to be mesmer) as our primary roamer though, as I tend to carve up in 2v2 and 3v3 situations, and am thus generally wanted there.

The second build I run is the obligatory tanky spec, with some damage to wear the enemy down;
http://gw2skills.net...WuskZtKYUw jJGA

ED: Woops, old links are old - updated  both.

Ok you said you had a bit of success with the warrior in tournaments but so had I. I mean currently im running a full glass cannon warrior for tournaments and i still can faceroll people in 1v1 (except guardian) but that is not the point. warrior is either stranded to use the hybrid form of 100b builds with bulls charge and frenzy to be a dos´´ps build, or go tanky to sustain dmg and soak it all up. The build ur using from my point of view has a good mobility but lacks damage and defense. Do you have a video of you playing it in tournament? i'd like to see your role there, cause every decent thief , guardian or mesmer will rape you with this build and i am not saying you are a bad player, you can be awesome skilled player and still get ownd by an average thief because simply warrior profession does not offer half as utility, dmg, and escape mechanisms that other classes have.

let me explain in like this : imagine if you are a rally driver and you can drive with a hi-end subaru imprezza that is 2 times better than your crappy ford focus but you stick to your car cause you like it and if you try and train really hard you can be at "same level" as an amateur with that subaru., you can drive with it, but you are wasting your potential because with your amazing driving skills you are limited to the "cap" with your crap car and your skill goes beyond that so why not use the subaru and get twice better?

you know what I mean? Every single role a warrior can play in tpvp can be substituted by another profession that does it twice better. Thats the problem arenanet is facing. They made every profession for certain purpose - of course you can play more roles with 1 Profession like dps guardian, support guardian, CC defense guardian etc. but still its a high dmg soaking, supporting profession from the beginning. so Is the thief, mesmer, ranger, necro....everyone fits their role somehow but warrior was made like "a bit of that, a bit of that and finally a lot of this" and its a hybrid that can do everything but excels at nothing :)

(and yes ive tried every profession in pvp and been playing warrior in tpvp from closed beta, oops nto supposed to say i was in one)

#5 selfconfessedcynic

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 11:51 AM

View PostBeowulf, on 15 September 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

[snip]
Sadly I don't have much hard drive space to get some decent recordings done, though you're not the first to ask me for one : /

I'm playing around with Bandicam, but it doesn't seem to do too much better - it's like 2gb/min instead of 3, both are far too large for me to do anything with, as I cbf'd stop starting recordings during a tournament streak.

Anyway, I had a thread here which at least let me describe the build as of the end of the betas in which I laid out all of the matchups at that time, I'll include that below; (quite a few people tried the build and I have only heard positives about it)

As for your statements about the relative strengths of each class in each role, I think you're exaggerating a tad. I would argue that the current level of balance is more like the A-team's imprezza vs the run-of-the-mill team's imprezza. They are close, but one is clearly better. At this stage, I'd say the driver is way more important than the car - at least from my experience, and again excluding mesmers (which I don't think are TOO bad, but just need some slight tweaking)

Quote

After rolling with it for the entire stress test today through PUGs against guild members and multiple tournaments, I'm happy to post the most successful warrior build I have played yet (in terms of balanced damage / time to kill and survivability). I won't claim it as my own as I am sure others have theory crafted something similar, but I wanted to get the word out there as to just how powerful this combination is;

http://gw2skills.net...WuskZtKYUwmgJBA

Playstyle Notes - Role: Direct damage in groups, secondary roamer
  • The damage of this setup is through the roof - mainly erring on the side of sustained damage rather than pure burst. To give you some round-about numbers, when saving my Signet of Rage for "oh crap" moments (so with just 3 stacks of might) I would be hitting most targets for within the range of 1300-2300 per swing of my axe on a crit depending on their armour. To clarify, yes, that is up to 3 instances of 1800 damage on a triple chop against a medium armour target, such as most rangers and thieves. That said, Eviscerate (the burst skill on the Axe) can hit for 7200+.
  • The self and group healing/support for this build is pretty cool too
    1. You have Mending (your main self-heal) which is on a 25s cooldown and removes Immobilise, Chill, Cripple and Weakness + 2 other conditions
    2. You have 2 shouts on 20s cooldowns, "For Great Justice!" buffs your damage, removes 1 condition and stacks with itself, and "Shake It Off!" which breaks Stun and removes 2 conditions. Each shout also gives you 8 strikes of adrenaline (you need 30 to fill to maximum), so using two at the start of the match immediately puts you up to 1 bar (10 strikes for each bar) and upps your critical chance by 2%.
    3. Every time you use a shout you also heal yourself and those around you for about 1100 and the condition removal + buffs apply to them as well
    4. You have "Charge" on the warhorn which removes Immobilise, Chill and Cripple. This has a 20s cooldown.
    5. You have Balanced Stance which breaks control effects and gives you 8 seconds of immunity to control effects on a 40s cooldown.
  • The build can be played in either of the two weapon sets as a primary. I generally prefer the axe/warhorn for the anti-movement-control, high swiftness uptime and silly large damage - but if your target is slippery, staying in sword is frequently a valid tactical choice.
  • The Shield is invaluable, but Eviscerate is the burst you want to use - so prepare to be swapping between the sets near constantly for maximum effect during combat. This is aided by the -5s weapon swap cooldown minor trait, making the cooldown itself only 5 seconds. You also gain 5 adrenaline (1/6 of your maximum) for weapon swapping.
  • Most engagements roll the same way;
    1. Start in sword/shield and close the distance, then cripple
    2. Wait for the burst -> shield block
    3. Switch to axe/warhorn, get swiftness up
    4. DPS them out.
    It's really that simple and - as is the way of the warrior class, apparently - very, very effective.
  • I hadn't noted this before, but with the +10% revive speed minor trait and healing shouts, you can consistently resurrect people faster than the enemy can stomp them so long as you get there in time. A well placed shield charge (something I'm still working on to be honest) and activating balanced stance almost guarantees a clutch rez.
  • Use your environment effectively. I could manage being about 90-95% as fast as my guild's dagger elementalist by choosing the right place to leap from with Savage Leap, and using my Warhorn / Sig.Rage well.
  • In addition, this is a melee-only spec, so standing at the bottom of a pillar your enemy is on top of is a bad idea. REALLY get to know your environment and how to get places in a timely fashion.
Matchups:
  • Poor against brick wall specs. This is a build for taking on 80% of the people you meet, not the 1/5 of their team which is specced purely brick wall. That said, it isn't a 100% loss - you can last as long as they can if you play it safe (so if you're keeping him active outside his point, you can do so for as long as it takes your team to get there). In addition, I actually killed a couple of brick wall mesmers, necromancers and yes, other warriors (hammer / shouts / clerics by the look of it) when given a long enough time.
  • Excellent against everything else with two big exceptions.
  • No problems with:
    - Until the 23/08 stress test I'd never been beaten by an ele. Dourin, however, has rectified that - we were 50/50 win/loss and pretty closely matched in skill (for better or worse : P) - he plays burst dagger spec
    - Other warriors. Except one of my guildies who is a pretty good hundred blades, not a single one beat me in a 1v1 (including other guilds' hundred blades dudes - and, sigh, versus pugs I won a couple of 1v2s as well)
    - Against balanced or glass cannon guardians it's up to skill and chance
    - Engineers weren't an issue, it seems like the pistol bleed duration nurf helped a bunch and otherwise the build has a lot of anti-control and conditions
    - Necromancers were in the same boat as engineers, though I suspect I did not meet a good direct damage necro
    - Rangers; Direct Damage and Hybrid was up to skill, Conditions was usually a win for me.
    - Mesmers... well, I don't think I met any good Mesmers today. I hope. - this has clearly changed since the betas. As said earlier, I am now averaging 60/40 loss-win ratios against the popular mesmer spec.
  • Two absolute no-joke hard counters to this build:
    - Insta-wins; Thieve's Guild and Moa Morph (though running away while in moa totally works) - I have less trouble with thieve's guild nowadays for some reason, not sure what has changed
    - The Big One: I could not win if a Thief brings the caltrops-on-dodge trait and is specced for a lot of dodge. Man, I just can't do anything against this - no idea how to counter it either. I met 3 thieves who did this and it was incredibly frustrating. - still a problem today, though fewer thieves run with this and normal thieves aren't a problem (I think I'm at a 80/20 ratio with thieves, my way)
I have included red edits where things have changed. So yes, till date I still have very few issues with thieves (especially in this meta), eles, necromancers, engineers, other warriors and rangers.

Enemy guardians I'm running about 50/50, maybe slightly in my favour.

Try it out for youself and see what your findings are. It doesn't kill as quickly as a HB glass cannon, but it is far less situational and has much better staying factor - and its mobility is just as good if not better.

Edited by selfconfessedcynic, 15 September 2012 - 12:04 PM.


#6 Ohan

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 08:27 AM

Hmm. . . I tried the spec and had next to no luck with it (only played for a couple of hours, though, so was still adjusting).  Did the rotation you outlined when possible and found that I just couldn't begin to get the burst I needed to bring anybody down, even with some nice evis's.  I have no doubt it's an issue on my end, just can't figure out what.

Any help would be truly really appreciated, thanks!

Edited by Ohan, 16 September 2012 - 08:28 AM.


#7 selfconfessedcynic

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:48 AM

View PostOhan, on 16 September 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

Hmm. . . I tried the spec and had next to no luck with it (only played for a couple of hours, though, so was still adjusting).  Did the rotation you outlined when possible and found that I just couldn't begin to get the burst I needed to bring anybody down, even with some nice evis's.  I have no doubt it's an issue on my end, just can't figure out what.

Any help would be truly really appreciated, thanks!
Hey, cool - what did you mainly have problems with?

Usually for most melee warriors without large burst, the main thing people find hard to do is make sure they stick to the target (which can be hard, especially with mesmers and thieves) - this is a sustained damage build with a pretty fast kill speed, but it is melee only, and every second counts. I ran it in... so many tourneys last night and it is still doing quite well - though we didn't have luck overall, but that is because we kept falling apart half way through Battle for K.

Then again, it may just not match your playstyle - my main notes would be to use your front half of the dodge meter offensively, whilst keeping the second in reserve for a defensive dodge. As others have noted elsewhere, evading damage is the best defence in GW2 - so watch the enemy like a hawk, block the first burst then evade the second as best you can (you may need to pop shake it off for the stunbreak etc). Also, when they dodge away, dodge with them (doing about 1000-1800 damage of you do it properly due to strength's first minor trait) and keep the pressure on. If they burn both dodges, burn eviscerate early (which will give you half your dodge meter back if you land it). It comes down to knowing your matchups, knowing how the enemies usually work and learning to stick like glue.

Edited by selfconfessedcynic, 17 September 2012 - 12:49 AM.


#8 Inori

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:24 AM

I'm using the same shout-tanky build style as you and I love it.

you actually heal quite a lot with the shouts and with proper block and dodge timing you can stay alive for a really long time on 1v2 situation.

I personnaly don't use balance stance but rather "fear me" cause I think it's one of the best spell ever! I guess balance stance might be better on some situation but 1v1 wise fear-me can bring you an edge to cap points or to win.


In 1v1 you're actually quite strong. If played properly you should never ever die to any bursty spec cause you got so much  interupt/block plus the roll... I'd like to know what class got as much direct CC and as strong damage plus healing (shouts can heal up to 5K every 20sec). I guess there are better setups (please show me) but i feel this build is good to hold points, win time on 2v1 situation and rape bursters!

It might not be top-tier but it's definetly good close to best... (imo my experience isn't big enough to say that)

btw: im switching between axe and mace but I usally prefer mace.

(I used to do a revive build too (warrior trait that gives 10% revive speed is fine but i was then losing CD on shouts...) but I prefer the more heal oriented one)

Edited by Inori, 18 September 2012 - 12:35 AM.


#9 Zinn

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 01:00 AM

I play a very slightly different build as cynic uses when I play my warrior.  It is about the most effective I have used.  The only problem is I can get on either a thief or guardian and do better.

#10 selfconfessedcynic

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:11 PM

View PostZinn, on 18 September 2012 - 01:00 AM, said:

I play a very slightly different build as cynic uses when I play my warrior.  It is about the most effective I have used.  The only problem is I can get on either a thief or guardian and do better.
And I can't : )

I think I'm becoming a bit of a warrior specialist, but I don't mind that - I like the class, and have found it does what I need it to do so long as I build it right and play it right. The way I work is to focus like that because things like balance are ever shifting, but the basics of a class will generally stay the same - Warriors will go from strong to weak, but good warrior players out there will adapt with it and stay viable. That's my 2c.

On a similar note, our team composition required me to go DPS and I personally can't stand hundred blades, so I rolled this DPS warrior spec for any interested;

http://gw2skills.net...GLVOqkUtIYQxkAA

I consistently topped matches across both teams (beating out the enemy's DPS for what that's worth) and we won 3/3 full tournaments whilst I played it. That's not to say that I won it for my team - nothing close, our mesmer on treb in BFK was essential, and everyone played well - but the build definitely worked for its intended spot.

My matchup against thieves with this is about 50/50 and mesmers was still about 60/40 their way - but even enemy guards sortof melted in face of it, as did pretty much anything else (the ttk when me and our thief focussed a point defence guard was <2s, and when in a 2v2 with my tank backing me up, I killed both enemy guards - 1 dps guard and 1 tank guard - within 1 min). Oh, and I should note that those tournaments included other guild teams, so it wasn't a laissez faire run.

Edited by selfconfessedcynic, 18 September 2012 - 12:17 PM.


#11 Action Bastard

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:09 AM

View Postselfconfessedcynic, on 18 September 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

And I can't : )

I think I'm becoming a bit of a warrior specialist, but I don't mind that - I like the class, and have found it does what I need it to do so long as I build it right and play it right. The way I work is to focus like that because things like balance are ever shifting, but the basics of a class will generally stay the same - Warriors will go from strong to weak, but good warrior players out there will adapt with it and stay viable. That's my 2c.

On a similar note, our team composition required me to go DPS and I personally can't stand hundred blades, so I rolled this DPS warrior spec for any interested;

http://gw2skills.net...GLVOqkUtIYQxkAA

I consistently topped matches across both teams (beating out the enemy's DPS for what that's worth) and we won 3/3 full tournaments whilst I played it. That's not to say that I won it for my team - nothing close, our mesmer on treb in BFK was essential, and everyone played well - but the build definitely worked for its intended spot.

My matchup against thieves with this is about 50/50 and mesmers was still about 60/40 their way - but even enemy guards sortof melted in face of it, as did pretty much anything else (the ttk when me and our thief focussed a point defence guard was <2s, and when in a 2v2 with my tank backing me up, I killed both enemy guards - 1 dps guard and 1 tank guard - within 1 min). Oh, and I should note that those tournaments included other guild teams, so it wasn't a laissez faire run.
Dude I'm sorry but that is the most glass spec I have ever seen.  The weapon sets don't work with each at all, and the utility skills you chose make little to no sense.  I can only imagine how bad the other players are if they can't drop a 20k hp 900 toughness warrior.

#12 selfconfessedcynic

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 02:13 AM

View PostAction Bastard, on 21 September 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

Dude I'm sorry but that is the most glass spec I have ever seen.  The weapon sets don't work with each at all, and the utility skills you chose make little to no sense.  I can only imagine how bad the other players are if they can't drop a 20k hp 900 toughness warrior.
Running solo, you'd be absolutely right. However, my detail involved me rolling with either our tank spec guardian, our backstab thief or providing pure dps-ass-dps where It was needed on the map. My utilities allowed me to do so, the two area CCs giving me a opportunity to break up fights I showed up late to (giving my allies there time to recover and regain initiative), neutralise a point for my tank to show up at behind me or stop stomps as required.

Frenzy is primarily there to finish people off, but otherwise I would not be on stomping duty at all, leaving that to my allies to handle - hence the extreme lack of stability.

That lack of stability and requiring someone to hone down on bunkered up guards or enemy mesmers meant I had to bring a rifle, though the extra control of rifle butt is definitely useful. The fact I was so glassy meant I had to have some way of extending my short life under focus fire, hence the shield (though shield bash is also useful) - this allowed me enough time to fear or give my team a chance to save my butt. The axe is there because I love that weapon, and in my opinion paired with quickness it's the hardest hitting thing the warrior has.

My role with this build was damage support and looking back at it I have since revised the sigil to the chance-of-quickness one but otherwise it was very well positioned in our composition. I think not enough people here pay attention to their teams when making a DPS spec, instead expecting to roll fools like the current thief can.

IMO the primary role of a glass cannon is damage support, not primary roamer - unless one has the mobility of a thief. Played that way, you can achieve the relative success I did.

The guild teams we faced were not bad, and I find it sad that this was your first assumption.

#13 Xaine

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 08:16 AM

I'm sorry, i have to agree with the above poster's assumption that the people you were facing were bad.

At some point in the game, they should have realized that you were a glass cannon, After this point, you should have been primaried in every, single, fight. Forcing you to blow cooldowns to get away/survive and do much less damage, or just outright killing you. One or two CCs and you are completely *ed. You will melt under the pressure of one person getting a few hits in, let alone 2+.

They lock you down and kill you, suddenly its 4v5.

Game lost.

A proper T-pvp build is a mix of longevity and damage. Burst damage preferably. Glass cannon builds have no place in T-pvp at any good level. The same argument can be made for brick wall builds.

Essentially, builds that can do ONE thing and nothing else are rather useless. (With the possible exception of a mid-point-holder build, but thats still up for debate) There will come a point in every game where you will need to be offensive, and defensive. If you can't do both to a decent level, you're that much closer to losing.

Also, Sweet Revenge is an awful trait. How often do you get to use Vengance when you're downed, maybe 1/3? How many times do you kill someone when you are in Vengance, 1/3 again?

I'd take Warrior's Sprint if i were you. Move faster > close on target better > more attacks land > more damage.

Edited by Xaine, 22 September 2012 - 08:21 AM.


#14 selfconfessedcynic

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 10:03 AM

View PostXaine, on 22 September 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

[Snip]
*shakes head* I am not going to debate the relative advantages and disadvantages of a team of specialists vs a team of well-rounded individuals. I'm not familiar enough with either the mathematics of that in the context of GW2 or the military history for that comparison.

I do not believe I stated anywhere above that I recommend playing a glass cannon, just that our team composition benefited from having me play that position and I noted my reasoning and our results. I actually personally prefer playing more balanced builds (tanky but nudged towards damage rather than pure tank and DPS nudged towards defensiveness - as illustrated by the first two builds I posted).

What I will say, however, is that the focussing and 4v5 examples you drew are in ideal scenarios where you for some reason engage the enemy on equal footing. At least in our guild, we try our best to avoid this at all costs, generally preferring to stall multiple enemies with one unit where required but at all other times maintain a numerical advantage (sorry - I've been reading The Lost Fleet, so I'm in a militaristic mood - but our tactics have proven rather sound, so excuse my method of delivery). 3v3s, at least from our perspective, are a chance rather not taken unless otherwise required and anything more is for crazy people.

Why would you not withdraw or simply not engage when you do not have the numerical advantage, unless there was no way for you to gain it? (for example if everyone else is tied up elsewhere) Wouldn't you rather divert those same people and make sure you maintain greater numbers elsewhere? The travel time lost is usually repaid in future kills, denied kills for the enemy and maintaining the points on the map you have.

When I posted matchups before it was drawing upon the times I was forced to fight 1v1 over that whole day with thieves and mesmers and was not trying to reflect upon our normal way of operating. The truth is that you are correct when you say playing a glass cannon invites focus fire but that is assuming a couple of things;
  • That they have the initiative to focus fire you. For example, who was there when the fight started, what is everyone's health when reinforcements arrive, and if your damage and control has not made them fight defensively. I do not believe there was a single instance in all of our past two weeks of play where 3 of us at full health walked up to 3 of the opposing team also at full health then fought it out over a point. Generally what happens is that there are three (or fewer) total combatants and more arrive shortly after the beginning. When playing glass cannon I tend to be the person arriving, not starting the fight - hence why I call it damage support.
  • That for some reason your team fails to focus fire their DPS in the same manner, thus taking advantage of your preferably greater numbers to an even larger degree, turning a 3v2 into a 3v1.
  • When forced to fight 2v2 that I would be silly enough turn tail and run from the person DPSing me rather than doing my utmost to damage them faster than they damage me to simply win the DPS race, counting on them getting stomped to allow me to rally. The few things I would spend any time avoiding instead of DPSing would be thieves, hundred blades warriors and burst eles (who seem to have disappeared sadly) where my very proximity to them would spell my death for the first couple of seconds of the fight - after which I would then revert to charging in headon and doing my utmost to kill them. With the build I posted, if they failed to kill me within those first 9-10 seconds (quite likely as you can actually shield block a number of control effects, and dodge roll others), they were generally dead shortly thereafter.
Of course, we aren't tactical masterminds, and have been beaten (though not with those players playing that comp - for what little 3 tournaments and the PUG where we met our guardian is worth) by the enemy outguessing us, us making poor decisions (like wasting time against a brick wall guard or mesmer) and/or just pure bad luck. However, we like playing the above way and have found success with it - I don't think we'll be the type of players to be certain of winning 3v3s unless we all get a whole lot better at this game and working together.

Anyway, I have since moved on to playing other builds and with entirely different comps to continue to learn and experiment with what works. I guess in summary - you're right to a large extent but I think you're discounting a style of play a little haphazardly. I definitely think there is a place for the glass cannon, at least from what I have observed and with the teams I have played with.

For the record, our composition was: 1 pure brick wall Guardian, 1 brick wall X (guard, necro and engineer all worked), 1 balanced Mesmer (secondary roamer + treb duty), 1 glass cannon Thief (primary roamer), 1 glass cannon Warrior (secondary roamer). The difference between primary roamer and secondary roamer is that the former would go around the entire map and hence frequently engage in 1v1s, the others would focus on half the  map each and generally try not to (except for BFK where the mesmer would be under heavy fire and frequently have to take things out solo).

Oh, and as to your point about Sweet Revenge, it turned the tide of 3-4 fights over the whole day - but my thoughts are you're probably right, especially given the seemingly years-long charge up time for Vengeance to come up. Either Warrior's Sprint or Mobile Strikes would probably be better in that spot - if I return to that build, I'll give those a shot.

Edited by selfconfessedcynic, 22 September 2012 - 10:21 AM.


#15 Pocket Jax

Pocket Jax

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:27 PM

This last post by cynic is so spot on it almost brings a tear to my eye. I think that often times in pvp we get so caught up in optimizing our builds, specs, items etc. that we forget - no matter how good your build is, it won't even take you halfway. The biggest determinant of your success is how you play and how well you play it - especially in a game like gw2 where everyone is on even footing in terms of items and builds. While others are constantly emphasizing stats and skills - "Theres no way you can survive with that much toughness" - "X skill is way more useful than Y skill", cynic is always emphasizing strategies, teamplay, and adapting to different scenarios. Great players are the ones who can run with a variety of builds / setups, many of them sub-optimal, and still achieve great success.

Thanks so much for you insights selfconfessedcynic. As a gw2 noob just trying to browse the forums for scraps and tidbits, posts like these are like hitting a treasure trove.

#16 selfconfessedcynic

selfconfessedcynic

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:19 PM

View PostPocket Jax, on 12 October 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

[Snip]
Hey, thanks!

Man, I've wanted to jump back into GW2 after last week's rebalances, but I've had so much on  my plate from work and XCOM has finally come out...

Ah well.

Oh, when I did get a chance to play, I had some fun with the same glass cannon build above but with some weapon/utility changes. Something like this;

http://gw2skills.net...GLVOqkUtiYMykAA

Not sure how effective it was in a team context (we haven't had a chance to tourney run in a while) - but it's hella fun, and seems to have some potential. Quickness with a hammer is surprisingly strong.




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