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Which class is the toughest to kill?

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#1 Kinjaz

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 07:24 AM

I personally think a good elementalist is the toughest to kill because you cant ever land a good burst on them without them becoming invulnerable and that insane aoe dmg almost certainly makes me to retreat.

What are your thoughts? Which class is the toughest to deal with as a thief?
Post some tips if you have one.

#2 Asomal

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 07:53 AM

Mesmers.Whenever i see one and i am alone,i run away and wait for support.But that's due to my build honestly.I'm running a blinding build so despite dealing with the phantams i have yet to reach the mesmer?Not gonna happen :P

#3 Ponzio

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 09:55 AM

Ele? Really? I dont want to question your skill OP but ele's are no threat to any class right now.

#4 Rythmn

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 12:00 PM

Ele's are some threat to some classes, just not thief's IMO. Our worst enemies are no doubt Mesmers..

#5 styken

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 01:25 PM

View PostPonzio, on 15 September 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

Ele? Really? I dont want to question your skill OP but ele's are no threat to any class right now.

true. are one of few classes Necro condition  can do 1vs1...

#6 Kinjaz

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 03:03 PM

View PostPonzio, on 15 September 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

Ele? Really? I dont want to question your skill OP but ele's are no threat to any class right now.

i think my skill set is fine against any class, but if you encounter good elementalists in tournaments, they almost never die due to their escape/armor skills.

and yeah mesmers pretty tough to kill but just target the character before you engage so that theres a arrow on top of his/her head i just go for that one to avoid wasting skills on illusions.

#7 Ponzio

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:22 AM

View PostKinjaz, on 15 September 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

i think my skill set is fine against any class, but if you encounter good elementalists in tournaments, they almost never die due to their escape/armor skills.

and yeah mesmers pretty tough to kill but just target the character before you engage so that theres a arrow on top of his/her head i just go for that one to avoid wasting skills on illusions.

Why are so many people say mesmer is beatable if you know which is the real one, I always asume my enemys know which is the real one and I only lost two 1v1 since release on that class. Only noob mesmers try to "outsmart" you with clones.

Edited by Ponzio, 16 September 2012 - 02:22 AM.


#8 Kinjaz

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 04:38 AM

View PostPonzio, on 16 September 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:



Why are so many people say mesmer is beatable if you know which is the real one, I always asume my enemys know which is the real one and I only lost two 1v1 since release on that class. Only noob mesmers try to "outsmart" you with clones.

Actually mesmers are pretty easy for me. With immobilize and pistol whip i kill clones and the real one with few hits at ease. They just take longer to kill certainly not unbeatable.

#9 Rythmn

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 05:57 AM

Mesmers CAN be easy to kill, just not all the time.

If I can get the jump on a mesmer, I'll waste them in less than a second..
If they get the jump on me, it's total opposite..

#10 Ponzio

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 06:53 AM

View PostKinjaz, on 16 September 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:

Actually mesmers are pretty easy for me. With immobilize and pistol whip i kill clones and the real one with few hits at ease. They just take longer to kill certainly not unbeatable.

Pistolwhip? Seriously? Do you know how many ways a mesmer has to avoid pistolwhip damage?

#11 Scarlet_Blossom

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:49 PM

View PostPonzio, on 16 September 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

Pistolwhip? Seriously? Do you know how many ways a mesmer has to avoid pistolwhip damage?

One? Unless they run a staff in which case they have two.

#12 Xavory

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 02:58 PM

Bunker guardians exploiting retaliation are the hardest class for any class to kill.

#13 Zinn

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 04:27 PM

A good ranger is my hardest fight.  Bunkers just take a long time for me but I've yet to lose to one.

#14 Hova

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 05:43 PM

View PostScarlet_Blossom, on 16 September 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

One? Unless they run a staff in which case they have two.

They can stealth(which breaks stun), they can tele(which breaks stun), they have a block on offhand sword, they have a block on scepter, they have an evade on staff...
So yeah, they have plenty of ways to avoid PW.

#15 Kutsus

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 06:11 PM

View PostHova, on 16 September 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

They can stealth(which breaks stun), they can tele(which breaks stun), they have a block on offhand sword, they have a block on scepter, they have an evade on staff...
So yeah, they have plenty of ways to avoid PW.

Don't forget distortion from blurred frenzy, distortion and daze from shatter, pistol stun, multiple blinds. Plus like Hova mentioned a full range of teleports, stealth, stun breaks, stability they can choose from utility skills. It all depends on spec, but one thing mesmers do not lack is crowd control. This is assuming they are competent enough to use the abilities at the right time. I use shortbow against skilled mesmers and keep their phantasms dead at all times with the aoe, not going to land a pistol whip unless they screw up or they want you to.

Edited by Kutsus, 16 September 2012 - 06:12 PM.


#16 Scarlet_Blossom

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 07:39 PM

View PostHova, on 16 September 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

They can stealth(which breaks stun), they can tele(which breaks stun), they have a block on offhand sword, they have a block on scepter, they have an evade on staff...
So yeah, they have plenty of ways to avoid PW.
And how many of those remove immobilize? Oh.

#17 Quantum Chaos

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:16 PM

None, I'm playing Pistol/Dagger Venom Share build with ambush trap.

Maybe a dagger/dagger thief if I'm low on health and he gets the jump on me; that build takes absolutely no skill to play. Venom share may be strong as hell, but at least it takes more thought to play well than it does for dagger/dagger.

Edited by Quantum Chaos, 16 September 2012 - 11:15 PM.


#18 Anelyn

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 10:52 PM

View PostScarlet_Blossom, on 16 September 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

And how many of those remove immobilize? Oh.

Precisely. And a thief has more ways to apply it and keep it up, not to mention thieves guild / ambush trap and venom share combo. IMHO a P/D can just stay in stealth and stack bleeds while his pets rape the mesmer and his clones lol.

#19 Hova

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:29 AM

View PostScarlet_Blossom, on 16 September 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

And how many of those remove immobilize? Oh.

Any decent mesmer saves the tele for situations just like that. You can say all you want, but with 2 equally skilled players mesmer wins any day of the week.

#20 crowsnest bomber

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 03:10 AM

View PostHova, on 17 September 2012 - 02:29 AM, said:

Any decent mesmer saves the tele for situations just like that. You can say all you want, but with 2 equally skilled players mesmer wins any day of the week.

agreed, they have just too much crowd control for a thief 1v1.. (assuming they are a good player)

Also might add that a bleed stacking necro is a tough fight 1v1

Venom sharing theifs that use a shortbow are the easiest kill .. and just because they use that crippling shot doesnt mean i cant catch them

#21 Psikerlord

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 03:28 AM

Good mesmers are proving most difficult for me. if they and their phantasms are bunched, no so bad, clusterbomb/shoot them together, daggerstorm reflect the shooter phantasm. Like most thief setups i can usually escape if i want to, but that's not much good if they're camping on the point. I find bunker guardians the next hardest, just cant get them down without help. But i guess that is what the bunker guardian is about... if i meet one now i just move on to the next point/target or wait for help. I run sb and p/d.

#22 Scarlet_Blossom

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:48 AM

View PostHova, on 17 September 2012 - 02:29 AM, said:

Any decent mesmer saves the tele for situations just like that. You can say all you want, but with 2 equally skilled players mesmer wins any day of the week.

And thieves have two shadowsteps.

#23 Ponzio

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:59 AM

View PostScarlet_Blossom, on 17 September 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

And thieves have two shadowsteps.

The problem is outside of haste a thief cant apply enough damage to actually kill a mesmer, you can do that every 60 seconds. As a thief you are forced to stealth as fast as possible after each attack or else the phantasms will kill you which means theirs always a 3 second window between each attack. Thats enough time for at least one defensive cooldown to be ready again. If you stealth you have to stay close because you can do it only 4 sec max (dont count shadow refuge because its an invitation to aoe the area). This means a mesmer can aoe the area with shatters which also apply confusion stacks if specced (which most do). So you sit in your stealth with 8 stacks of confusion and you have to decide if you run away or attack and get around 4k into your face with every attack you do. Means if you shadow step/steal to follow me you have one third of your hp left.

#24 Kirk

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:06 AM

Math class is the toughest class for me.

#25 Scarlet_Blossom

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:41 AM

View PostPonzio, on 17 September 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

...

Your whole post is entirely beside the point. If you initiate with Infiltrator's Strike rather than Steal it doesn't even matter if the mesmer decides to blink since you just use Steal and still hit him with your Pistol Whips.
On a sidenote: Phantasms can be killed by AoE (which thief clearly doesn't have, right?)

#26 Hova

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:43 PM

View PostScarlet_Blossom, on 17 September 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

And thieves have two shadowsteps.

And mesmers have dazes, and blocks, etc,etc. you shadowstep once, mesmer will stun you, you'll shadowstep again, mesmer can block your stun and kite away, not to mention mesmer can have 2 invulnerabilities since most of them are running with sword.
So i'll say it again, with 2 equally skilled players the mesmer wins any day of the week.
I suggest you go watch some videos\streams of skilled mesmers and figure out for yourself just how powerfull they are 1v1, then get back to me.

#27 Kinjaz

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:54 PM

View PostHova, on 17 September 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

And mesmers have dazes, and blocks, etc,etc. you shadowstep once, mesmer will stun you, you'll shadowstep again, mesmer can block your stun and kite away, not to mention mesmer can have 2 invulnerabilities since most of them are running with sword.
So i'll say it again, with 2 equally skilled players the mesmer wins any day of the week.
I suggest you go watch some videos\streams of skilled mesmers and figure out for yourself just how powerfull they are 1v1, then get back to me.

I think you belong in the mesmer forum, if you are here to ONLY brag about how good mesmers are (which i partially agree with) please leave this thread. I asked for tips on how to beat other classes as a thief.  

Also, you mentioned all these escape skills but in reality a thief's stealth + burst dmg along with immobilize is sometimes too quick to counter. Can you really land dazes,blocks when thieves burst usually needs 1-2 seconds to land? Mesmer can't even target a thief fast enough to react. A good mesmer will evade it maybe, but it's only when they see the thief coming. A good thief can also make sure that burst dmg lands without players see it coming and give them no time to react.

#28 Hova

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:57 PM

i'm not a mesmer fyi. i'm stating the fact that mesmer are almost unbeatable atm when faced with at least equally skilled opponents. This was the discussion that arose in this thread.
And if you're really convinced about the fact that thieves can actually land that burst, why do you think that most teams atm use a mesmer to either defend a point or stay on treb at khylo? (not talking about the portal abuse ofc).
Like i said, go watch some vids\streams of top mesmers and see how easilly they defeat thiefs, then get back to me.

#29 Anelyn

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:01 PM

Geez this thread starts to look as if Mesmers want to be the kings of 1v1 and nobody can challenge them and have a fair chance at beating them. They can block and have 2 teleports and powerfull phantasms and shatters and 5 weapons to swap all in 1 spec. Really?
I mean everyone knows that a thief with venom sharing and thieves guild + ambush trap is unbeatable with all cds up (given a skilled player that knows what he's doing, when to do it, and how).

Nobody said mesmer is a pushover fight, but claiming that is unbeatable in 1v1 is just a rich imagination. 1st: your dodge capability is limited. 2nd: you have cooldowns on your utility / defensive abilities, most of thief ones are initiative based which can be greatly improved by traits, 3rd: thief has better burst or condition damage than a mesmer and is all player related, no buggy AI involved (gl shattering a thief who Infilatror Arrow's or Shadowsteps to a ledge, then comes back at you when your clone army is half way around the map).

Stop presuming the thief runs heads on to you while you pop all your clones, cast all debuffs and buffs, and he tries to reach you ignoring the clones that rape his butt, spamming his skills with full confusion stacks and what not. My take is you fought too many HS spamming noobs who are tunnel vision spamming 2 key not even seeing their screen.

#30 overfloater

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:09 PM

View PostKinjaz, on 15 September 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

and yeah mesmers pretty tough to kill but just target the character before you engage so that theres a arrow on top of his/her head i just go for that one to avoid wasting skills on illusions.
Except the target arrows drops as soon as they stealth.


I find mesmer pets are worse for the DPS than the distraction element. I usually run with SB out until I'm confident I can switch to single-target DPS without needing to escape, so if I find a mesmer I'll usually wait for him to blow his pets, tear those down AEs/Trick Shot, then I can focus on the mesmer himself without needing to pop in/out of stealth to reduce incoming pet damage.


They're not unbeatable -- although whether or not they just get away is down to the skill of the particular mesmer -- but I find they're the biggest pain one-on-one. (Other than glass cannon HB warriors if my stun break is down.)

But then again everyone else on this forum is a pro and always wins all their 1v1 fights. So obviously anyone who's ever had trouble with a mesmer is just a noob and we should read all their awesome tips about killing them easily -- particularly the tips involving the word "just".   (*eye roll*)


PS: I don't consider relying on a 3-min CD elite skill a viable strategy for "reliably" killing any class. People need to stop relying on Thieves Guild as a go-to crutch for the rest of their build.

Edited by overfloater, 17 September 2012 - 06:11 PM.






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