36 replies to this topic

[Zhero]

Hey guys, this is my first topic so forgive me if I'm in the wrong section. I'm starting this topic because I've been thinking about this for the last week or so.

When GW2 released I picked a warrior and got to level 80 without too much trouble. Since I wanted to get T3 cultural armor and being level 80 cost me more money than I gained from it, I decided to level an alt in order to raise money for my warrior armor. I chose an elementalist and compared to my warrior it was so hard to get through PvE content (playing solo that is) that I died about 5 times as much as I did with my warrior. Since I decided to roll this character primarily to raise money for my warrior and I had to pay lots of money on armor repairs etc. since I died so much, I decided to pick another character when my elementalist reached the mid 30's. This time I had chosen the guardian.

As expected, being a guardian was way easier than playing an elementalist. I am able to take on 5 or sometimes even more mobs at a time (due to AoE blinds, blocking attacks, a huge heal etc.), whereas I had to be very careful with my elementalist when I aggro'ed more than 2 mobs at a time. With my greatsword my guardian really chews through PvE content and I had an even easier time than I had with my warrior. My guardian is now level 70 and the only downside I can think of right now is the lack of a viable ranged weapon (staff skills do almost no damage and my scepter orbs move so slowly that I'm faster when I just use Judges' Intervention to teleport in with my greatsword.

Long story short: although I'm enjoying playing my guardian so so much (really like the mix of dps, support and mobility), I feel so overpowered that I think Anet will nerf the guardian, or at least the greatsword skills of the guardian, pretty soon.

Now, my question to you guys is: do you feel the same when playing guardian? And do you think Anet is likely to nerf him soon? Or do you think the guardian is well balanced as it is right now and Anet just needs to buff some other professions?

Reason I'm asking this is because currently I'm thinking of using the money I saved for my warrior T3 cultural on my guardian T3 cultural, but I don't feel like spending 100+ gold on a character that is likely to be nerfed soon and might not be as fun to play anymore.

That's all!

Edited by Zhero, 15 September 2012 - 11:54 AM.

[Eon Lilu]

The elementalist was nerfed hard since the beta's. In beta I rolled ele as my main just like in GW1 and I really liked it, I could actually go with and my favourite weapon choice was dagger dagger, it was fun, aslong as I kept moving I was not too squishy and was wierd being a caster melee class but I loved it. That all changed by launch and now the ele feels lack luster and half as good as it used to, I will roll an ele when they give it some love I think.

The guardian is not OP, the guardian is best when it comes to avoiding damage, blocking damage, controlling the enemy and surviving. That's why it feels easier to play than say a full health  / dps warrior, with that warrior your just going smash good and kicking butt, with the guardian you control your enemy and make your enemy do what you want it to do, then it becomes predictable and you can attack accordingly.

You position the enemy and then you position yourself, then you attack while using your blocking and avoidance skills.

I don't see the guardian as OP but I do see the other profession like elemenatlist as needing some love.

I think the biggest problem at the moment with GW2 is the game is far toooooo easy in PVE and whenever they nerf a profession in PVP it also wrecks that profession in PVE.

I think the warrior has a much easier time of it than a guardian also, you have a bow, rifle and huge health pool, aswell as alot of damage. Then you also have stuns and immmobilizes. With a warrior and pve you really do not have to hardly think at all before you attack something.

Also with the tags you picked, the topic title you picked I think your just trying to get the guardian nerfed. Obvious is obvious lol. Just incase you are sincere, there is no way to tell if a profession will be nerfed or be 100% certain, educated guesses is all people can give you, like the thief being nerfed.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 15 September 2012 - 12:13 PM.

[itzjordo]

Zhero, on 15 September 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Hey guys, this is my first topic so forgive me if I'm in the wrong section. I'm starting this topic because I've been thinking about this for the last week or so.

When GW2 released I picked a warrior and got to level 80 without too much trouble. Since I wanted to get T3 cultural armor and being level 80 cost me more money than I gained from it, I decided to level an alt in order to raise money for my warrior armor. I chose an elementalist and compared to my warrior it was so hard to get through PvE content (playing solo that is) that I died about 5 times as much as I did with my warrior. Since I decided to roll this character primarily to raise money for my warrior and I had to pay lots of money on armor repairs etc. since I died so much, I decided to pick another character when my elementalist reached the mid 30's. This time I had chosen the guardian.

As expected, being a guardian was way easier than playing an elementalist. I am able to take on 5 or sometimes even more mobs at a time (due to AoE blinds, blocking attacks, a huge heal etc.), whereas I had to be very careful with my elementalist when I aggro'ed more than 2 mobs at a time. With my greatsword my guardian really chews through PvE content and I had an even easier time than I had with my warrior. My guardian is now level 70 and the only downside I can think of right now is the lack of a viable ranged weapon (staff skills do almost no damage and my scepter orbs move so slowly that I'm faster when I just use Judges' Intervention to teleport in with my greatsword.

Long story short: although I'm enjoying playing my guardian so so much (really like the mix of dps, support and mobility), I feel so overpowered that I think Anet will nerf the guardian, or at least the greatsword skills of the guardian, pretty soon.

Now, my question to you guys is: do you feel the same when playing guardian? And do you think Anet is likely to nerf him soon? Or do you think the guardian is well balanced as it is right now and Anet just needs to buff some other professions?

Reason I'm asking this is because currently I'm thinking of using the money I saved for my warrior T3 cultural on my guardian T3 cultural, but I don't feel like spending 100+ gold on a character that is likely to be nerfed soon and might not be as fun to play anymore.

That's all!

a melee defensive/survivability based character will be more successful at taking on multiple melee mobs than a ranged caster, hands down. take a look at a previous mmo like wow for example...when doing lets say a "dungeon" you would have a pally and a mage (just giving a close comparison between wow classes > gw2 classes) a pally is the better person at taking on multiple mobs than a range caster. it's not that the gaurdian is "OP" but in fact i believe that the creators behind guild wars 2 designed them to be this way, it may look over powered to some people though.

[Zhero]

Having read both your replies I think it is indeed very plausible that it's just the way the profession is designed that makes it feel like it's OP, while it isn't necessarily. It's just that the class is designed to sutain damage which makes it easier to play (in PvE anyways).

On a side note: I really AM sincere. I'm loving how my guardian plays and, as mentioned in my post I'm willing to spend a big load of money on him, so I'd rather not have him nerfed for sure. I can't seem to change the tags or change the topic titel though...

[spinedoc]

I have a warrior and a guardian also and I feel the opposite.  My warrior feels MUCH stronger in PVE content, for some reason my guardian just feels kind of wimpy.  Don't get me wrong my guardian feels strong overall, but compared to my warrior he just can't zerg into half a dozen mobs as easily.  My warrior has a health regen build and I can just truck him into half a dozen or more mobs and AOE mow them down with 3 or 4 moves.  My guardian feels like I have to either spec him for survivability and then it takes too long to kill mobs, or I have to spec him for DPS and then he dies quickly and still doesn't have the dps of my warrior.  I'm liking my warrior in dungeons too, with shout heals and the range on them I'm finding myself to be great support as well as great dps.

Guardian just seems like a much more complicated class to play, if some players can decipher how to capitalize on a guardian then more power to them I say.

[Dixa]

Eon Lilu, on 15 September 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

The elementalist was nerfed hard since the beta's. In beta I rolled ele as my main just like in GW1 and I really liked it, I could actually go with and my favourite weapon choice was dagger dagger, it was fun, aslong as I kept moving I was not too squishy and was wierd being a caster melee class but I loved it. That all changed by launch and now the ele feels lack luster and half as good as it used to, I will roll an ele when they give it some love I think.

The guardian is not OP, the guardian is best when it comes to avoiding damage, blocking damage, controlling the enemy and surviving. That's why it feels easier to play than say a full health  / dps warrior, with that warrior your just going smash good and kicking butt, with the guardian you control your enemy and make your enemy do what you want it to do, then it becomes predictable and you can attack accordingly.

You position the enemy and then you position yourself, then you attack while using your blocking and avoidance skills.

I don't see the guardian as OP but I do see the other profession like elemenatlist as needing some love.

I think the biggest problem at the moment with GW2 is the game is far toooooo easy in PVE and whenever they nerf a profession in PVP it also wrecks that profession in PVE.

I think the warrior has a much easier time of it than a guardian also, you have a bow, rifle and huge health pool, aswell as alot of damage. Then you also have stuns and immmobilizes. With a warrior and pve you really do not have to hardly think at all before you attack something.

Also with the tags you picked, the topic title you picked I think your just trying to get the guardian nerfed. Obvious is obvious lol. Just incase you are sincere, there is no way to tell if a profession will be nerfed or be 100% certain, educated guesses is all people can give you, like the thief being nerfed.

the lack of a decent ranged option is the main issue that is keeping guardians in balance. there are SO many encounters wehre being in melee is just not a good idea no matter what boons you bring.

[buddhist21]

I don't understand why people care so much about what class is OP in PvE, I mean, Oh so that warrior can kill that thing 5 seconds faster than me, big deal.

Also, everyone is so shocked that plated classes like Guardian or Warrior have an easier time surviving in PvE solo over an Elementalist or a Necro, I mean really, you find that so surprising? That big guy decked in chain plate can take a hitting more than you in your skimpy little cloth skirt? I suggest a big dose of common sense should be prescribed by our doctor.

[Red_Falcon]

Actually, most classes can be as tanky as a Guardian.

A Ranger can pull off 12s invul, tons of evades and block.
Eles can pull off 7s invul, 2 arcane shields, armor of earth etc.
Thieves can perma-evade, perma-AoEblind.
Warriors have 12s invul and healing shouts for 6k health.
Mesmer has clones, chaos armor and Moa to divert damage.
Engi has turrets and lots of CC removal / mobility.

As you can see Guardian has no edge over others, it's just that you're playing your Guardian defensively and your Ele as a glass cannon.


Seriously, you people should get that head out of the WoW concepts, you're making my head spin.

GW is not about classes.
GW was never about classes.
GW will never be about classes.
GW =/= Traditional MMO.

It's all about builds.
BUILDS.
BUILDS.  
B U I L D S.

All classes can spec into some tanky wall of steel spec and tank 5 mobs at a time.
All classes can spec into control and keep things disoriented.
All classes can glass cannon and deal damage.
All classes can spec into support and boost the team.

It all depends on your build, entirely.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 15 September 2012 - 03:05 PM.

[Eon Lilu]

spinedoc, on 15 September 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

Guardian just seems like a much more complicated class to play, if some players can decipher how to capitalize on a guardian then more power to them I say.

The guardian for me seems built to be a balance class, or jack of all trades type of class, if you try to be specific in just one thing with the guardian without using the rest of whats on offer, the guardian will just suck for you. It is possible to be quite "tanky" and still have plenty of damage and crits with the guardian, you just have to sacrifice alot of other things.

Edited by Eon Lilu, 15 September 2012 - 03:56 PM.

[Dixa]

my new asura guardian is in the brisband..midlands? whatever. the 15-25 area for asura/sylvari

i'm having rifle bandaits hit me for 1.1k. i'm being insta gibbed left and right on level appropriate content

i don't feel op at all. sorry. maybe it's like this in kessex hills becaus the bandits hit for nothing there.

[RyuujinZERO]

Zhero, on 15 September 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

Having read both your replies I think it is indeed very plausible that it's just the way the profession is designed that makes it feel like it's OP, while it isn't necessarily. It's just that the class is designed to sutain damage which makes it easier to play (in PvE anyway).

Honestly. All the classes are OP

My thief friend can spam permanent weakness while dancing over their heads with death blossom indefinitely. My engineer can spam grenades and dance about with perma-vigor so that entire groups die before me to the point i felt guilty i might be rolling the easy-mode class. An elementalist i know doesn't get engineer at all but swears his elementalist is more powerful than engineer.

A warrior i know thinks he's the OP one compared to guardian and my ranger friend swear his skills are OP.


Somehow, arenanet have created a game where everyone swears THEY are overpowered. Yet the only time you'll ever hear someone say another class needs nerfing is when:

a) They just got their ass kicked by one in PvP

They're a mesmer (Who need a buff like nobody's buisness)

c) They're concerned they  are kicking disproportionate amounts of ass

I suspecty guardians get accused of being Op th most because they are the barrier warrior, thus they can facetank the largest number of enemies and not drop dead. But they pay for this with the almost total lack of ranged capability.

Edited by RyuujinZERO, 15 September 2012 - 05:39 PM.

[Who Cares Really]

If anything is going to be nerfed soon, it's your Warrior. So buy the Guardian armor, lol. Warriors are the absolute best profession at tearing through PvE content.

Bad HP, traits have no synergy, bad crit. Guardians are probably going to receive a small buff soon because their traits skills are terrible and all over the place. But for the most part, we are fairly balanced.

Edited by Who Cares Really, 15 September 2012 - 06:21 PM.

[spinedoc]

Who Cares Really, on 15 September 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

If anything is going to be nerfed soon, it's your Warrior. So buy the Guardian armor, lol. Warriors are the absolute best profession at tearing through PvE content.

Bad HP, traits have no synergy, bad crit. Guardians are probably going to receive a small buff soon because their traits skills are terrible and all over the place. But for the most part, we are fairly balanced.

Yeah, this bums me out about the warrior but it's probably the truth, he just tears thru PVE like a fist thru a wet paper bag.  Guard is nice, but I can certainly solo much better with my warrior or my ranger.

[Itharius]

Guardian survivability is probably OP by ArenaNet standards. They don't want the game to be an attrition fight, yet Guardians in their current state can tank an entire team while point defending for a long duration by min maxing defensive traits and using a defensive build.

Guardian dps, meanwhile, is a bit underpowered. We have to rely on spirit weapon builds to put out heavy burst damage, which are wonky and have long cooldowns, and Guardian ranged dps is pitiful.

Eventually, I see ArenaNet nerfing honor specs and buffing the zeal and radiance traitlines.

spinedoc, on 15 September 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

Yeah, this bums me out about the warrior but it's probably the truth, he just tears thru PVE like a fist thru a wet paper bag.  Guard is nice, but I can certainly solo much better with my warrior or my ranger.

Warrior does high dps in PvE, but they're rather lackluster in PvP against skilled players because stun breaks negate any high burst potential, leaving them with few saving graces except a high health pool and some decent condition dps (which Guardians completely hard-counter). I'd imagine you would get over the novelty of 18k crits in PvE pretty quickly once you move on to WvW and sPvP.

[Razkurdt Thunderclaw]

i have reached  my guardian to 37 right now. i feel my damage is okay, well mostly because im running with a crit/pow build withgs/hammer and im able to take on group of enemies by using a  "move like butterfly, sting like a bee" gameplay. but melee surbavility agaisnt de bosses is indeed an issue...

in pvp is another story though. with my glass cannon triple meditation build i can take on any class 1 on 1. being mesmer the only danger until i discivered that targeting the original keeps the reticle on him at all times

[X Ghoul]

"Guardian is OP"
In game: "glf warriors only for shard farming (6 min runs)"

[syndreamer]

I took my level 80 Guardian last night into Honor of the Waves (story) and felt inadequate, when it came to damage mitigation and defense. I soundly got ownd about 12-15 times, some of the boss attacks were unblockable and undodgable, If you're heals are still on CD, then you're out of luck.

[Itharius]

syndreamer, on 16 September 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

I took my level 80 Guardian last night into Honor of the Waves (story) and felt inadequate, when it came to damage mitigation and defense. I soundly got ownd about 12-15 times, some of the boss attacks were unblockable and undodgable, If you're heals are still on CD, then you're out of luck.

If you're talking about the final boss, you need blocking skills on your bar (focus 5 ability, shelter, renewed focus) to survive the random bird dots.

[draxynnic]

To the OP:  In my experience, the elementalist is a bit underpowered compared to the other professions I've played seriously (guardian, mesmer, ranger, engineer). Warrior generally seems to be regarded as the easiest to survive in PvE with, followed by guardian.

What might be making it feel so overpowered might be your own perspective. Your first playthrough was with warrior, and you gained experience with this. Then you started with the elementalist, and found that elementalists get downed by a stiff wind if they don't time their defensive skills and heals well. You then came into guardian with experience you didn't have with playing warrior, right after playing one of the least survivable professions. It's not surprising it feels powerful, but to truth is it probably feels powerful through a mix of learning to play (better) and, possibly, the guardian gelling better with your play style.

[Branwulf]

The Guardian is perfectly balanced.

[MattVid]

The Guardian seems fine to me so far, I am level 80 and have played the game A LOT since release. Look at the polls and posts by the devs talking about population. The only classes that look "average" are Guardian, Necro and Theif. Then you have classes like Mesmer and Engineer that are hardly played by anyone. Then you have the face rolling, easy mode classes, Warrior, Ranger and Elementalist (more so the Ranger and Warrior than the Elementalist).

These "most played classes" are most played for a reason. High damage, lots of AoE, and basically all their skills are easy to use and straight forward. The guardian is much more difficult to master, and as more of a support class, your strategy changes dramatically all the time depending on your group. I feel like so many Warrior/Elem/Ranger players are bad players because all they have done for 80 levels is spam buttons without thinking about what is going on. When I see warriors melee'ing bosses and taking the full damage of their AoE attacks when they are sitting at like 10% HP ... I just /facepalm.

The Guardian is a strong class, but I don't think it is "OP". Most other classes can do it better than us if spec'd the right way.

Edited by MattVid, 17 September 2012 - 03:51 PM.

[TGIFrisbie]

I have not seen a profession that is truely OP.  I do feel a few are lagging behind in being properly balanced and seemingly a bit on the weak side.

Lets try to bring everything up to par and not try to break things down to make them weaker via unnecessary nerfs.

[Isaac82]

The guardian feels very OP because you have a lot of dIfferent options for surivability which gives you a large room for error. It is not truly OP though. As far as will it get nerfed? Well considering it got buffed in the last patch and there is one comig out tonight we will see but I highly doubt it.

[ilr]

It all comes down to playstyle

Friend of mine who's played nothing but Ele so far tried Guardian yesterday and asked us how we can stand playing it b/c the Damage is so low...   I agree, in general PvE zone stuff Versus 1-3 mobs, it's very slow and tedious and most importantly:  Deliberate.   Guardian is a Combat Architect and therefore is only as overpowered as the Situation he's put into.   In Dungeons this generally means he's extemely overpowered where these super high DPS guildmates of mine on their Eles and Mesmers and Thieves couldn't even beat Crucible of Eternity yet when we slapped 2 guardians into the party, they couldn't fail it and the Guardians couldn't even die.    Situational Awareness makes you a God on this class.  ...then you wander out alone into the PvE zones for a few tasks, and watch complete nubs Rocket past you in every single aspect of combat... feels bad man...

[Itharius]

ilr, on 18 September 2012 - 03:42 PM, said:

It all comes down to playstyle

Friend of mine who's played nothing but Ele so far tried Guardian yesterday and asked us how we can stand playing it b/c the Damage is so low...   I agree, in general PvE zone stuff Versus 1-3 mobs, it's very slow and tedious and most importantly:  Deliberate.   Guardian is a Combat Architect and therefore is only as overpowered as the Situation he's put into.   In Dungeons this generally means he's extemely overpowered where these super high DPS guildmates of mine on their Eles and Mesmers and Thieves couldn't even beat Crucible of Eternity yet when we slapped 2 guardians into the party, they couldn't fail it and the Guardians couldn't even die. Situational Awareness makes you a God on this class.  ...then you wander out alone into the PvE zones for a few tasks, and watch complete nubs Rocket past you in every single aspect of combat... feels bad man...

That's why we're primarily a support class, and that's why in almost every successful sPvP and dungeon comp, you see at least one Guardian.

[Nail Bunny]

You made it seem like Guardian's greatsword needs nerfing... really? It's not that great, it just has good AoE damage, therefore it's nice for trash mobs in PvE.

Warrior DPS is insane lol. They need to look out for the nerf bat, if anyone does.

Also... anyone who says Guardian can only support doesn't know how to build Guardian for DPS. I feel invincible playing my Guardian, and do great damage... but I still get practically one-shotted by Warriors in PVP.

[Br0barian]

Adjust your traits and items, play accordingly. Obviously if ranged dps zergs into melee range your going to get stomped. If your effective at range, that is what you do, attack AT RANGE, not melee. Guardian is fine, doesn't need nerf. Scepter/Focus works great for ranged dps as a Guardian, slow animations and boring play, but it works fine. BTW, PVE is easy as any class. Don't ruin the game for the rest of us that can play any class effectively

[Drops]

You need to understand the weaknesses of the Guardian before you declare that defeating a few mobs simultaniusly is 'overpowered'.

Lack of mobility is a big one in PvP and WvW.  You can not dictate the point of engagement and disengaement easily in any fight, and therefore, lose a lot of control over the flow of a battle.  You can't even maintain melee range to sustain damage againt many classes--that's how bad our mobility is.

Our lack of strong ranged weapon options ties in with our poor mobility to make Guardians particularly unthreatening to any suficciently built and skilled kiting profession.  They can weaken and soften us up to make us use up our defenses, then go in for the kill as they see fit.

Even in straight up melee combat, our low health makes us succeptible to burst damage attacks, stacked with control effects.  If a Guardian is not careful to maintain defensive abilities, he is easily dealt with, by a strong offensive push with staggered abilities.  Again, the lack of mobility makes it difficult to escape such attacks, and we have to rely on our innate defenses and healing to survive.

In a slugfest where it's all atrrition and burst damage is surviable, we are very strong, but that's about it.  If you can drag your opponent down to your playing field, then you win.  Otherwise playing a Guardian can be very frustrating.

[Zhero]

Drops, on 18 September 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

You need to understand the weaknesses of the Guardian before you declare that defeating a few mobs simultaniusly is 'overpowered'.

Lack of mobility is a big one in PvP and WvW.  You can not dictate the point of engagement and disengaement easily in any fight, and therefore, lose a lot of control over the flow of a battle.  You can't even maintain melee range to sustain damage againt many classes--that's how bad our mobility is.

Our lack of strong ranged weapon options ties in with our poor mobility to make Guardians particularly unthreatening to any suficciently built and skilled kiting profession.  They can weaken and soften us up to make us use up our defenses, then go in for the kill as they see fit.

Even in straight up melee combat, our low health makes us succeptible to burst damage attacks, stacked with control effects.  If a Guardian is not careful to maintain defensive abilities, he is easily dealt with, by a strong offensive push with staggered abilities.  Again, the lack of mobility makes it difficult to escape such attacks, and we have to rely on our innate defenses and healing to survive.

In a slugfest where it's all atrrition and burst damage is surviable, we are very strong, but that's about it.  If you can drag your opponent down to your playing field, then you win.  Otherwise playing a Guardian can be very frustrating.

Whilst I agree that guardians lack a viable ranged weapon (especially for the very dynamic PvP encounters) I have to disagree with the lack of mobility I have as a guardian. Quite on the contrary actually, one of my main reasons to play guardian instead of warrior is his mobility/ability to kill kiting players or mobs. In my build I have:

1) A leap skill with 900 (or was it 600?) range  
2) Judges' Intervention (teleport with 1200 range)
3) Binding Blades which pulls the enemies towards me (and although this only has a range of 600, when combined with JI or Leap I'll get within that range most of the time
4) Signet of Wrath (?) not sure if that's the one, but it gives me passive extra condition damage and when activated a 3 second immobilize
5) Ethereal Chains (again, not sure of that what it's called) it's the no. 3 skill on the scepter which ommibilizes for another 3 seconds.

And although I know warriors are (one of the) least mobile professions in the game and every class seems mobile compared to the warrior I do think guardians stand quite high in that hierarchy. On the other hand, I haven't played the truely mobile classes too much yet (my elementalist is level 34 and my thief is level 14). Maybe I'll think completely different about the mobility of a guardian when I've played these two professions a bit more.

[Fredthelog]

Nooo, I love my Guardian the way she is. Don't change anything.