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Thief - A basic Guide

thief guide shortbow pve

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#241 Quack530

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 07:01 AM

View PostPhenn, on 01 April 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

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I don't know why I wrote s/p since his post was about p/p.  Thanks for calling me out on this.
Edit: Also, yeah I was serious about my compliments.  His dungeon advice is good.

Edited by Quack530, 09 April 2013 - 07:06 AM.


#242 Toche

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 01:11 PM

View PostThe Shadow, on 15 September 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

ivj. Dagger/ Pistol

Honestly this is my favorite weapon set currently. I used to hate D/P. I used to think it was made redundant by other mechanics we had access to naturally. I also thought it was too expensive to manage. I was partly wrong.

I decided to give this weapon-set another go as a result of the dagger-offhand nerfs. It became a debate of; what can I do with D/P that I can't do with D/D and vice versa. I came to the conclusion that D/P is more versatile. Said versatility comes at the cost of needing more initiative. Thanks to Trickery and Shadow Arts this becomes possible.

What this means is, D/P isn't too good. Until you build around it. That means investing fairly heavily into trait trees that you might not necessarily want to invest in. The outcome is extreme survivability while still dealing amazing DPS.

Main tip while using this set, don't just spam 5, time it properly, heartseeker through it to get into stealth and then backstab only when appropriate, please note, this doesn't work if another combo field is on top of the black powder field. The interrupt and daze we have access to is simply amazing, you can effectively kill a mob by pressing nothing other than 4. This however requires good timing and latency, you also need to be able to read enemy animations. The problem with this is that most of the time it simply wont work on bosses/ legendaries/ champions.

Either way, I'm greaty enjoying this set in both PvE, PvP and Dub Vee Dub.

First of all I apologize if my bad English made ​​me lose the information I'm asking for.

You say that your currently favorite setup is Dagger/Pistol. In this case I have two questions.

Do you think a leveling build based on this setup is viable? and if the answer is yes, could you help me build one or share yours? At least some tips on rotation, traits, skills... I am a noob on this type of games :unsure:

Thanks in advance. Great guide!

#243 Loperdos

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:44 PM

View PostToche, on 22 April 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

First of all I apologize if my bad English made ​​me lose the information I'm asking for.

You say that your currently favorite setup is Dagger/Pistol. In this case I have two questions.

Do you think a leveling build based on this setup is viable? and if the answer is yes, could you help me build one or share yours? At least some tips on rotation, traits, skills... I am a noob on this type of games :unsure:

Thanks in advance. Great guide!

First off, welcome to the wild world of thieves! :)

Since The Shadow hasn't been super active in the Thief sub-forums lately, I will do my best to answer.  I'm no expert on thieves, but I've picked up a thing or two in my couple (hundred) hours of play two different thieves.

You can definitely level with D/P, its actually the weapon-set I used to level on my second thief for quite a few levels.  I combined it with P/P to give it a combination of range and melee synergy.  A leveling build a lot depends on your skill level as a player.  I would say though to max out the Critical Strikes line first, before any of your other lines as you are leveling.  Beyond that, its up to you whether you want to focus more on damage, then you would put your points into Deadly Arts.  If you want more survivability, then go Acrobatics.

IE as you level:

10 points into Critical Strikes (CS-III, Side Strike for the +7% crit chance from the side or behind)
10 points into Acrobatics (Acro-II, Power of Inertia for the Might when you dodge)
5-9 points into Deadly Arts (no major trait here because once you get enough trait points for the major, you'll be resetting your skills via your book)

This will put you at level 40, when you have to buy a new book and your traits automatically reset.  Past that:

20 points into Critical Strikes (CS-III; CS-I for Fury or CS-VIII if you find yourself really short on Initiative and are using Signets or CS-IX Combo Critical Chance for increased crit chance on Shadow Shot)
20 points into Acrobatics (Acro-II; Acro-IX Quick Recovery if you are short on Initiative)
5-9 points into Deadly Arts (Trickery if you find yourself low on Initiative in a lot of fights)

This will get you to level 60 and once again, you'll be resetting your traits via your book...from here on out, you should start working towards whatever lvl 80 build you want to do, so these will change depending on your choice of build:

30 points into Crit Strikes (CS-III; CS-[whichever your chose from above]; CS-XI Executioner for better sustained dmg or CS-XII Hidden Killer for better Backstabs)
AT LEAST 15 points into Acro (Acro-II) <~~ this is highly recommended because of the minor trait, Feline Grace.  If its not in your chosen build, go ahead and get rid of it.

Your other points, as I said, will then go into whatever chosen build you want to run.  For a good resource for thief builds, the Thief Guide and Build Index has a good number of threads that have both builds and discussions about the builds, which will give you a good place to start so you can tweak a build to fit your own personal thief play-style!

As for rotation and all that jazz, I would suggest taking as many stealths as you can possible run with, so put Blinding Powder and Shadow Refuge on your bar for utilities.  The third one I would suggest taking Smoke Screen because if you use dagger #2 (Heartseeker) through a Smoke Field, you get stealthed and can then line up a backstab really easily.  Other than that, watch out for overusing #5 on the D/P (Black Powder), its nice in a pinch, but it costs a LOT of initiative.  You can also get stealth from using #2 through Black Powder.

Hope this helps!

#244 Toche

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:17 PM

Wow man, thank you so much! I'll try this out for sure, you've been really helpful.

#245 Reoku

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 03:18 PM

Very helpful guide, it inspired  me to make my own build:
http://gw2skills.net...DYzVUt6Bz6DDA-e

I would love to have some opinions on my build and my choice of gear, since this is the first build i ever made

#246 Loperdos

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 05:18 PM

View PostReoku, on 07 June 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

Very helpful guide, it inspired  me to make my own build:
http://gw2skills.net...DYzVUt6Bz6DDA-e

I would love to have some opinions on my build and my choice of gear, since this is the first build i ever made

Figured I'd give you some feedback since there has been a significant lack of feedback on your build.

Its a decent build, no glaring things that will make it horrible.  Its not that GREAT either.  Its a very average, balanced build.  The only thing that I would suggest swapping (equipment-wise) is the Explorer Earring you've got going on, as MF is largely a wasted stat slot.  I'd say swap it out for a Beserker's earring.  And any other Magic Find things you've got, I'd say get rid of them for something more useful.

Also, I'm not really sold on the use of Divinity Runes for a PvE thief.  They are decent in some other areas, but in PvE on a thief, they don't seem to really pay off that much.  If you aren't set on them, you could pick up Ruby Orbs instead for some added dmg.

Only thing about your traits is I'm not really sold on the usefulness of Shadow's Embrace either, its just kinda meh.  It makes it so you have to stay in stealth longer in order to take advantage of it, which could be good or bad in PvE.  But on a D/D build, it does reduce your DPS because Revealed doesn't start until...well...you are out of stealth (IE Revealed...).  Its just kind of a 'meh' trait.  If you dropped that and picked up Infusion of Shadow instead you could probably drop Roll for Init and pick up Sig of Agility which takes care of your condition clearing as well as giving you extra endurance plus a passive bonus to prec, just an overall good utility option.

Edited by Loperdos, 15 June 2013 - 02:20 PM.


#247 Elrathan

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 03:17 AM

Great guide. I'd like to comment on a few things though.

Firstly, some recent testing I've done indicated that the smaller explosions of the detonated cluster bombs only hits three targets, hence it would probably be better to use undetonated cluster bombs against 4 or 5 targets.

Also, the stuff about S/P is no longer true. Using pistol whip will not produce more damage then regular auto attacks normally. This changer a bit with on-crit stuff like sigils of air or fire but the difference is still minor. This greatly changes the usage of the weapon from a spam damage weapon to one based on avoidance with infiltrators strike, and denial with black powder and headshot.

#248 drcr33p

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:20 AM

I really like this guide, but one question. How are you going to get consistent stealth when using Dagger/Pistol? Because without a Dagger in the offhand, the only stealth skill you have is steal (if speced that way) or your utilities, which don't have a low enough CD. The Backstab proc sounds great, but with D/P you can't use it that often.

#249 Loperdos

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:51 PM

View Postdrcr33p, on 19 June 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

I really like this guide, but one question. How are you going to get consistent stealth when using Dagger/Pistol? Because without a Dagger in the offhand, the only stealth skill you have is steal (if speced that way) or your utilities, which don't have a low enough CD. The Backstab proc sounds great, but with D/P you can't use it that often.

You can't get AS consistent stealth with a D/P build as you can with a D/D build.  Just a simple fact.  But, if you run with even 10 points in SA on a D/P build, you can help out with this if you take a full selection of Deception utilities (Smokescreen, Blinding Powder, iHouse).  Add that to the fact that you can Heartseeker (#2) through Black Powder (#5) in order to get into stealth as well, and it starts to look a little better.

The benefit from D/P comes not so much from its ability to do consistent backstaps, but the fact that it has more group utility than D/D does.  Between Shadowshot (#3), Headshot (#4) and Black Powder (#5) you get a lot more utility and more things you can do with D/P in a group as opposed to D/D which is a lot more focused on dmg and individual survival.  This isn't to say that D/P does bad dmg.  It certainly does do good dmg, it just can't do the level of dmg a D/D backstap build can.  D/P has more survivability with it compared to D/D, not only because of the utilities, but also because of the general build that goes with each weapon-set (even though they are largely interchangeable, unless you want to run with the FULL glass cannon DPS D/D backstap build).

Hope this helps! :)

#250 Reoku

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 12:20 PM

View PostLoperdos, on 14 June 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

Figured I'd give you some feedback since there has been a significant lack of feedback on your build.

Its a decent build, no glaring things that will make it horrible.  Its not that GREAT either.  Its a very average, balanced build.  The only thing that I would suggest swapping (equipment-wise) is the Explorer Earring you've got going on, as MF is largely a wasted stat slot.  I'd say swap it out for a Beserker's earring.  And any other Magic Find things you've got, I'd say get rid of them for something more useful.

Also, I'm not really sold on the use of Divinity Runes for a PvE thief.  They are decent in some other areas, but in PvE on a thief, they don't seem to really pay off that much.  If you aren't set on them, you could pick up Ruby Orbs instead for some added dmg.

Only thing about your traits is I'm not really sold on the usefulness of Shadow's Embrace either, its just kinda meh.  It makes it so you have to stay in stealth longer in order to take advantage of it, which could be good or bad in PvE.  But on a D/D build, it does reduce your DPS because Revealed doesn't start until...well...you are out of stealth (IE Revealed...).  Its just kind of a 'meh' trait.  If you dropped that and picked up Infusion of Shadow instead you could probably drop Roll for Init and pick up Sig of Agility which takes care of your condition clearing as well as giving you extra endurance plus a passive bonus to prec, just an overall good utility option.

Thank you very much for your advice. It helped me a lot. Since my post there's an update on the skills and traits of the class Thief. Does this update makes some traits and skills more preferable than they used to be?

#251 Loperdos

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 04:02 PM

View PostReoku, on 26 June 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

Thank you very much for your advice. It helped me a lot. Since my post there's an update on the skills and traits of the class Thief. Does this update makes some traits and skills more preferable than they used to be?

No problem.  :)   Since I commented on your build I actually was more curious about Shadow's Embrace and starting running with it on one of my particular builds and it works out relatively well.  So take my previous advice and this advice however you prefer...the build I'm running with it on is not your classic DPS build, so approach it with caution.

And yes, the changes switched around quite a few things with the thief and we actually have a discussion going on about it here.

Look forward to your input!

#252 Elric of Grans

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 12:21 AM

I have just started a Thief and have been experimenting with the different weapons and utilities.  Probably largely because of the Initiative resource in place of cooldowns, I do not think I am making proper use of things.  I just wanted to relate my thoughts and hope for some clarification from experienced Thief players.

Steal: My early impression is that this is terrible.  This guide explains that it works as a stun-break, which is very useful to know, but outside of that it seems a pretty weak class feature next to, well, every other class.  Am I underestimating its value?

Weapons

Shortbow: As the guide states, EPIC.  I cannot believe how good this is.  The auto-attack seems the Thief's #1 option for multiple opponents.  The backstab is nice, but probably not something to build around.  Cluster Bomb is also freaking fantastic.  I need more practice on detonating it, but definitely great.  Disabling Shot could not be more perfect either.  Choking Gas, however, does not strike me as terribly good, as Poison is not a great condition.  Perhaps in PvP/WvWvW, but it seems a waste of Initiative in PvE.  Infiltrator's Arrow is interesting, but seems a finesse skill that would take practice to use effectively.

Sword: Weakness and Cripple on the auto-attack make is seem quite useful, as well as the ability to hit multiple opponents.  The Backstab is OK, but probably not something you would build around.  Infiltrator's Strike combines well for a hit-and-run style.  Am I correct that is the aim of the sword?  Flanking Strike continues the theme of dancing around the opponent and seems quite good.  Pistol Whip seems more powerful, but would likewise changes the style of the sword to just spamming that and bursting them down, which seems dull in comparison.  Is dancing around with the sword an effective play-style?

MH Dagger: The auto-attack does not strike me as terribly good, at the moment, but I suspect it is designed for crit-fishing.  Am I correct and, at higher level, it is the source of considerable crit damage?  The Backstab, however, seems exceedingly powerful.  Is that instead the purpose of the dagger: to exploit Stealth and Backstab?  Heartseeker, at least at the moment, seems pretty terrible.  I know it used to be OP, but I currently do not feel it is work using over the auto-attack, except for the Leap Finisher.  Death Blossom's evade and Whirl Finisher give it a clear utility, but I do not think it is intended to be spammed for damage (like Pistol Whip).  Shadow Shot, on the other hand, has a very clear gap-closing purpose.  I guess using Bow to clear a group, then Shadow Shot in to finish the left-overs?

MH Pistol: The auto-attack is OK, but perhaps more useful to a condition build than a crit build?  The backstab is simply a stronger version, so probably worth mixing in regularly.  Body Shot seems plain useful, especially in group situations (eg Dungeons).  Shadow Strike seems quite nice, proving good damage, an appropriate condition and the kind of mobility the weapon needs.  Unload, however, reminds me a lot of Pistol Whip, in that it seems to change the focus of the weapon (this time from conditions to straight damage) and seems designed to spam for burst damage.

OH Dagger: Dancing Dagger seems like it would be great for MH Pistol, but not terribly useful for MH Dagger and seems superfluous with the Sword (which already Cripples).  Am I missing something here?  Cloak and Dagger is obviously for a Stealth-oriented build, which strikes me as good for MH Dagger and MH Pistol, but not so much MH Sword.  Again, am I missing anything obvious?

OH Pistol: Seems the defensive option.  The short Daze duration, but quick attack, makes Head Shot clearly intended for Interrupts.  Nice utility.  Black Powder has very clear defensive purpose to all three MH weapons, but is expensive.  I guess it requires a little finesse to use efficiently, perhaps when Endurance is exhausted from dodging, or escaping bad situations?

Utilities

Tricks: Other than Haste, these do not strike me as terribly good.  Perhaps in specific builds, but probably not worth considering in most builds.

Venoms: The guide suggests they are bad, and that is my appraisal too.  They seem awful.

Traps: These do not strike me as too useful in PvE, but I suspect they could be quite interesting in WvWvW.  Am I thinking along the right lines here?

Deceptions: These seem to be the Thief's primary defense, making up for his low health and medium armour.  Other than Shadowstep, they also seem to provide useful group utility.  Am I correct in my assumpion that this is the Thief's #1 source of defense (outside Evades)?

Signets: These seem really, really good.  A lot better than Signets are for other classes (IMO).  I cannot help but look as these as all exceptionally powerful choices, both offensively and defensively.  Is it pretty standard for a Thief to take at least one Signet, given their utility?

As a more general question, what are the most popular sources of condition cleanse for Thieves?  Are some options simply superior to others, or is it all highly build-dependent?

#253 Phenn

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 03:50 AM

View PostElric of Grans, on 31 July 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

Steal: My early impression is that this is terrible.  This guide explains that it works as a stun-break, which is very useful to know, but outside of that it seems a pretty weak class feature next to, well, every other class.  Am I underestimating its value?

If unbuffed (read, you don't take traits in Trickery), Steal is nice for the stun-break and shadowstep. It's insta-cast, meaning you can use it to set up a backstap pretty easily. Unless you buff it with traits, though, it's pretty lack luster. Buffed, however, it can be quite powerful and offer some mediocre offensive support.

View PostElric of Grans, on 31 July 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

Sword: Weakness and Cripple on the auto-attack make is seem quite useful, as well as the ability to hit multiple opponents.  The Backstab is OK, but probably not something you would build around.  Infiltrator's Strike combines well for a hit-and-run style.  Am I correct that is the aim of the sword?  Flanking Strike continues the theme of dancing around the opponent and seems quite good.  Pistol Whip seems more powerful, but would likewise changes the style of the sword to just spamming that and bursting them down, which seems dull in comparison.  Is dancing around with the sword an effective play-style?

The sword has been my number-one favorite thief weapon since release. Couple of thoughts:

1. The stun from Tactical Strike is DEFINITELY something you can build around. I leveled by focusing on the blind-on-stealth from SA, and stun-locking mobs into the ground. Not necessarily easy to do, and makes leveling a fun challenge.
2. The sword when paired with dagger (hence forth, S/D) is definitely a hit-and-run type of build. Sword/Pistol (S/P) is not. S/P is a stand-your-ground and batter the mobs. Pistol Whip is only barely viable over sword's massive auto attack. So dropping black powder then AA is the best route to go.
3. Don't use PW. Just...don't. :)
4. Your view of the sword otherwise is pretty spot on.

View PostElric of Grans, on 31 July 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

MH Dagger: The auto-attack does not strike me as terribly good, at the moment, but I suspect it is designed for crit-fishing.  Am I correct and, at higher level, it is the source of considerable crit damage?  The Backstab, however, seems exceedingly powerful.  Is that instead the purpose of the dagger: to exploit Stealth and Backstab?  Heartseeker, at least at the moment, seems pretty terrible.  I know it used to be OP, but I currently do not feel it is work using over the auto-attack, except for the Leap Finisher.  Death Blossom's evade and Whirl Finisher give it a clear utility, but I do not think it is intended to be spammed for damage (like Pistol Whip).  Shadow Shot, on the other hand, has a very clear gap-closing purpose.  I guess using Bow to clear a group, then Shadow Shot in to finish the left-overs?

1. Dagger AA is actually slight better than even the Sword for single-target. Use it and abuse it.
2. You are correct--D/D is designed specifically for backstaps (in a power build). Pure and simple.
3. Heartseeker is still worth it under 50% and definitely under 25% health.
4. Death Blossom in a power build is only useful as an evade and to proc Signet of Malice's heals. In a ConD build, however, you spam it like it's your life (it is).
5. Your conclusions on D/P are good. Blind-AA-heartseeker-backstap. Shadow shot to next mob. Repeat.

View PostElric of Grans, on 31 July 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

MH Pistol: The auto-attack is OK, but perhaps more useful to a condition build than a crit build?  Unload, however, reminds me a lot of Pistol Whip, in that it seems to change the focus of the weapon (this time from conditions to straight damage) and seems designed to spam for burst damage.

Yeah--Pistol AA is terribad in a power build (and pretty lackluster in a ConD build, too). Unload is definitely the best option for P/P, and is your primary source of damage. Your instincts here are correct.

View PostElric of Grans, on 31 July 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

OH Dagger: Dancing Dagger seems like it would be great for MH Pistol, but not terribly useful for MH Dagger and seems superfluous with the Sword (which already Cripples).  Am I missing something here?  Cloak and Dagger is obviously for a Stealth-oriented build, which strikes me as good for MH Dagger and MH Pistol, but not so much MH Sword.  Again, am I missing anything obvious?

Dancing Dagger used to be awesome, but got nerfed hard a while back. It's great for kiting mobs when you're on low health, and good for P/D as you say. It's great with S/D builds that rely on hit-and-run, allowing you to keep distance while setting up your next pass. Again--CnD with S/D is great for stun-locking (setting up Tac Strike).

View PostElric of Grans, on 31 July 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

OH Pistol: Seems the defensive option.  The short Daze duration, but quick attack, makes Head Shot clearly intended for Interrupts.  Nice utility.  Black Powder has very clear defensive purpose to all three MH weapons, but is expensive.  I guess it requires a little finesse to use efficiently, perhaps when Endurance is exhausted from dodging, or escaping bad situations?

Yep.

View PostElric of Grans, on 31 July 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

Tricks: Other than Haste, these do not strike me as terribly good.  Perhaps in specific builds, but probably not worth considering in most builds.

Venoms: The guide suggests they are bad, and that is my appraisal too.  They seem awful.

Traps: These do not strike me as too useful in PvE, but I suspect they could be quite interesting in WvWvW.  Am I thinking along the right lines here?

Tricks can be incredibly useful. Haste is "meh" in all but the purest-damage settings. Used to be better (OP even) when paired with Pistol Whip. Not so much anymore. Caltrops are epic for WvW, proccing Sig of Malice, and any ConD build. Roll for Initiative is awesome for ranged builds or S/D evasive builds. Scorpion wire is pretty much just good for WvW wall-ganking.

Venoms and Traps? Pretty much spot on.

View PostElric of Grans, on 31 July 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

Deceptions: These seem to be the Thief's primary defense, making up for his low health and medium armour.  Other than Shadowstep, they also seem to provide useful group utility.  Am I correct in my assumpion that this is the Thief's #1 source of defense (outside Evades)?

Not so much defense as fight-reset. You'll still take damage, you just get harder to hit. Doesn't reset aggro anymore, either. But you're correct--they are good defensive utilities in the things they offer. Shadow Refuge is THE best support utility the thief has. Shadowstep is invaluable for mobility builds (S/D and P/P in particular). Not usually worth buffing through traits, though--to situational.

View PostElric of Grans, on 31 July 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

Signets: These seem really, really good.  A lot better than Signets are for other classes (IMO).  I cannot help but look as these as all exceptionally powerful choices, both offensively and defensively.  Is it pretty standard for a Thief to take at least one Signet, given their utility?

As a more general question, what are the most popular sources of condition cleanse for Thieves?  Are some options simply superior to others, or is it all highly build-dependent?

Pretty much answered your own question there. :) Signet of Agility should never leave your bar, and it's the second-best ConD cleanse thieves have. The others are very good as well.

But, that being said, ConD cleanse is a problem for thieves. The best ways to deal with them, are: Hide in Shadows, Sig of Agility, and Shadow's Embrace (SA IV).

To be honest, the BEST way to deal with conditions is to kill the target faster than it can apply ConD. :)

Hope this helps!

#254 Elric of Grans

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:29 AM

That helps a lot.  Thank you for the clarification!  Interesting points on the Tricks I had not considered (Scorpion Wire off a wall sounds hilarious!).  I especially appreciate your insights on the weapons.  It is good to read how things pan out with more experience.

#255 Phenn

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 02:47 PM

View PostElric of Grans, on 31 July 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

That helps a lot.  Thank you for the clarification!  Interesting points on the Tricks I had not considered (Scorpion Wire off a wall sounds hilarious!).  I especially appreciate your insights on the weapons.  It is good to read how things pan out with more experience.

This game is definitely one that gets easier with practice (duh), but also opens up new routes for play styles. The initiative system does take some getting used to at first (I hated it when I started my thief). My advice is to treat the thief as if you were playing with hard cooldowns (like all the other professions) at first. It'll help conserve Init for when you need it, and it'll teach you the basic positioning/skill use that makes the thief so powerful. Stay away from spam builds at first (Pistol Whip/Death Blossom/Unload) until you get the other skills down.

Unless you're on SB. Then clusterbomb-spam everything to death. And laugh maniacally while doing so.

The thief is THE most flexible profession across trait lines and weapon sets. You'll wanna get good practice with all the power sets (S/ D/ and SB), and you'll use them for all different situations. A good trait distribution is friendly to most (if not all) sets. Particularly 0/30/15/25/0. More defensive? 0/30/25/15/0. Wanna play the ultimate hit-and-run? 10/30/0/0/30. Purest damage? 25/30/0/0/15. All of these builds work with every power-oriented weapon set. Just swap weapons out and change a few traits on the run. I love the thief for this very reason.

And yes, yanking peeps off walls in WvW with Scorpion Wire is hilarious. Yank > CnD > Backstap > Heartseeker and they're taking a flag to the face before they realize they're not on the wall anymore.

#256 Chicago Jack

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 04:41 PM

For anyone who cares,

If we're purely talking backstabbing, hidden killer becomes more useful than executioners when your crit chance is less than:

b = (a - 1.2c) / (1.2(a - c))

Where b is the crit chance, a is your average critical hit damage, and c is your average non-critical hit damage. Given you're not planning on changing anything else in your build.

For example, say you do on average on a backstab, no crit, 2000 damage. and your crit damage is 95%, which makes your actual crit damage 4900. ( 2000(1.5 + 0.95) = 4900 ). So then, when Hidden Killer becomes effective is when you have anything less than about a 72% crit rate. Anything above this number, and Executioner's is the skill to go for.

0.718 = (4900 - 1.2(2000)) / (1.2(4900 - 2000))

Edited by Chicago Jack, 31 July 2013 - 04:43 PM.


#257 Phenn

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 04:53 PM

View PostChicago Jack, on 31 July 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

For anyone who cares,

If we're purely talking backstabbing, hidden killer becomes more useful than executioners when your crit chance is less than:

b = (a - 1.2c) / (1.2(a - c))

Where b is the crit chance, a is your average critical hit damage, and c is your average non-critical hit damage. Given you're not planning on changing anything else in your build.

For example, say you do on average on a backstab, no crit, 2000 damage. and your crit damage is 95%, which makes your actual crit damage 4900. ( 2000(1.5 + 0.95) = 4900 ). So then, when Hidden Killer becomes effective is when you have anything less than about a 72% crit rate. Anything above this number, and Executioner's is the skill to go for.

0.718 = (4900 - 1.2(2000)) / (1.2(4900 - 2000))

You should post this in this thread: http://www.guildwars...ps-thief-build/

#258 Loperdos

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 01:07 AM

View PostElric of Grans, on 31 July 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

~snipfu


Welcome to the world of the thief! Its a helluva lot of fun here. :)

Phenn beat me to a response to you, but he covered things pretty well across the board, and you seem to have a good idea of what the thief is and can do.  Only one or two things I would probably add.

About Steal: In a nutshell, yeah you are underestimating it quite a bit.  It is much more useful now since June 25th when they reduced its CD, but there are things about it that are completely awesome.  Trait a few points in Trickery (15) and it functions as a quick init regen in addition to the awesome gap closer that it is.  I use this quite a bit on my conD build thief.  Even unbuffed it can be quite useful, especially when you start learning and figuring out what items you generally steal from what mobs.  For example, steal from a ghost and you'll probably pick up an AoE fear...doesn't seem like much, huh?  Great for an "oh shit" button when you get surrounded and overwhelmed, helps you reset the fight.  Steal a Glob of Ectoplasm (purple looking glob on the bar) and it functions as a boon giver, and supplies you with ALL the boons for a short~ish period of time.  I was in the same boat as you with steal when I first started playing and thought it wasn't that great of a prof mechanic, but once I started learning and figuring out which stolen items come from what and being able to utilize that, it opened up lots of possibilities.

Only other thing that I can think of off the top of my head has to do with OH dagger.  You are right, it doesn't seem to be too awesome unless paired with MH dagger.  With that combo you get a crazy amount of single target dmg via Cloak n' Dagger + Backstap, and can sustain it pretty well and still keep your init above 6 to take advantage of the +10% dmg from the Crit Strikes line (25 point minor trait).  The main thing that I've discovered a good use for OH dagger (besides CnD) is using Dancing Dagger in combination with Signet of Malice.  There have been a number of times where I mistime a dodge and end up nearly dead, so I jump back out of combat and toss a couple Dancing Daggers around to regen HP via SoM and cripple so I can continue to stay alive.  Usually I use this trick when I'm really low on HP, like 5% or so.  Works especially well with 2+ targets in the area.

Again, welcome to the land of the thief...I have lots of fun with it, and thief is honestly my favorite and most played profession in GW2 because I find it to be the most fun.  If you have any other questions about the thief, the game or just want to chat, feel free to hit me up in-game: Loperdos.7924.  If I don't respond at first, just give me a minute, sometimes I play without my sound on and don't notice I have whispers lol, its nothing personal.

Hope this helps! (Thanks Phenn for stealing my tagline :P )

Edited by Loperdos, 01 August 2013 - 01:07 AM.





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