243 replies to this topic

[Nght12]

As always S/D is ignored.

[The Shadow]

Nght12, on 24 September 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

As always S/D is ignored.

It's just not very good. I don't even like S/ in general tbh, very clunky.

BinxyPrime, on 23 September 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

I think there are better options than haste, shadowstep for PvE content is better for condition removal and escape in the oh shit scenarios.

Haste is really good for burst but that tends not to be very important in pve, I would drop it for something like smoke bomb for the cloak and blind, or for shadowstep or something, that will serve most people better for regular content.

I switch my utilities on the fly depending on content. The GW2 interface makes it really easy, so.. why not?

As for SS > Haste.. Depends entirely on the content. I can think of many scenarios in which I'd prefer to take Haste.

Edited by The Shadow, 26 September 2012 - 05:03 PM.

[Minion]

I have never found a good time to use Shadowstep in PvE... Wasting a utility skill on a 20s movement skill that doesn't benefit you much in battle sounds like a bad idea.

[The Shadow]

Minion, on 26 September 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

I have never found a good time to use Shadowstep in PvE... Wasting a utility skill on a 20s movement skill that doesn't benefit you much in battle sounds like a bad idea.

Well, Stun Break and condition removal..

Not useless, but I'd prefer to take Roll for Initiative if I needed a stun-break.

[Minion]

The Shadow, on 26 September 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

Well, Stun Break and condition removal..

Not useless, but I'd prefer to take Roll for Initiative if I needed a stun-break.

Of course. Free evade, free initiative, stun-break is a bonus. I don't mind using Haste for stun break if that's all I want, though. The extra damage burst can usually rid an enemy before it can hurt me any further.

[Rachmani]

S/P heck, even S/D could be so fun to play if infiltrator's strike was a leap instead of... well infiltrator's strike.
Right now IS is just clumsy and boring. I like it less than Flankings strike - that at least I can actually get to work most of the time.

Btw. If anyone wants to play around with S/D a bit: http://gw2skills.net...KUeyVwodPuqWtKA is what I use to farm orr or really anywhere when I am a) bored not in the mood for SB speedfarming. It's actually not that bad, but IS is a pain...

[Sinistra]

I have been running 25/30/0/0/15 for quite a while now but recently started thinking if the Trickery points might be better spent.

I'm thinking about going Acrobatics but I'm not entirely sure if passing up either:
- 2 initiative refunded when stealthing from Shadow Arts;
or
- extra 3 initiative from Trickery;
is worth it.

How are you finding backstabbing if you can only do 2 in a row and then you're out of ini? Well, almost.

Very nice guide too!

Edited by Sinistra, 28 September 2012 - 06:48 PM.

[Capn_Crass]

Sinistra, on 28 September 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

I have been running 25/30/0/0/15 for quite a while now but recently started thinking if the Trickery points might be better spent.

I'm thinking about going Acrobatics but I'm not entirely sure if passing up either:
- 2 initiative refunded when stealthing from Shadow Arts;
or
- extra 3 initiative from Trickery;
is worth it.

My personal experience has been that 15 Acrobatics is a very solid defensive choice for "lone wolf" work, while 15 Trickery offers more offensive support, especially in a group. Personally I won't leave home without 10 Shadow Arts, but I primarily play D/P so Initiative management is more of an issue.

I'd say if you're doing a C&D backstab build hit up 15 Acrobatics to shore up your melee-range survivability and mobility, and if you're doing a DB evasion build go with 15 Trickery for a bigger opening salvo and (slightly) better bleed damage.

Aside: I'm not that enamored of the +max Initiative from Trickery. Recoup is vastly more important than starting value in any fight that lasts longer than the initial burst. If you're building deeper into Trickery for other reasons it's not a bad bonus, but it's not worth building for on its own.

[Sinistra]

Yeah, the extra 3 ini isn't so hot in PvE but it still is something and you get 3 ini from Steal anyways. It's just that Acrobatics has nothing in the line of recoup, that's why I'm hesitant.

I'll give it a shot and see how it ups my defense, thanks for the quick reply.

Edited by Sinistra, 28 September 2012 - 08:03 PM.

[SilverSeraphim]

This is a great read. Thanks for posting so much useful information!

[BarbieQFreak]

I don't find myself needing the survivability from the Acrobatics line so much, and was wondering if 150 Condition Damage would be a major damage boost should I respec.

[The Shadow]

Sinistra, on 28 September 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

I have been running 25/30/0/0/15 for quite a while now but recently started thinking if the Trickery points might be better spent.

I'm thinking about going Acrobatics but I'm not entirely sure if passing up either:
- 2 initiative refunded when stealthing from Shadow Arts;
or
- extra 3 initiative from Trickery;
is worth it.

How are you finding backstabbing if you can only do 2 in a row and then you're out of ini? Well, almost.

Very nice guide too!

I don't like Trickery in PvE. Even with 15 points in Trickery the recharge on Steal is still extremely long. Too long IMO for it to be worth it. Obviously it works better with different builds, specifically builds that focus more heavily on LDB and Condition Damage, but.. For Backstabs.. na. And I don't find my initiative ever going below 5.. but that's because I time my backstabs and cnds to make use of the extra 10% damage with initiative over 6 trait. When you consider factors such as the internal cooldown on stealth.. and potential initiative gain on crit.. well.. It's pretty easy to manage our resource without investing into Trickery. That's why I prefer the utility/ survivability/ damage from Acrobatics for both "lone wolf" play and group play.

SilverSeraphim, on 28 September 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

This is a great read. Thanks for posting so much useful information!

Thank you!

BarbieQFreak, on 29 September 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

I don't find myself needing the survivability from the Acrobatics line so much, and was wondering if 150 Condition Damage would be a major damage boost should I respec.

Whatever suits you best. The nice thing about Acrobatics though is you don't just benefit in terms of survival. Maintaining a few stacks of might offers a nice offensive boost while keeping the increased survivability.

Edited by The Shadow, 29 September 2012 - 11:24 PM.

[Goldian]

Hey there,

Good guide, if i am to play a thief I will most likely follow your tips and build untill I can come up with my own that fits my gameplay more if needed.

Not sure if you saw my topic, but I am currently uncertain as of wich class I will play. My gf is going to play a Ranger, and Thief is one of the classes I think might fit my gameplay and synergise well with her ranger.

You think im better with another proffession and if not, is your "example build" still viable for a duo with a ranger?

Cheers!

[Candalos]

Hello,

Thanks for the informative post. Building up a baby thief this post has given me a lot to think about. One thing I'd like to ask is about how much vitality and toughness do you think should a thief be aiming to have at max level (focusing mainly on PvE content with some WvWvW on the side)

[Cylint Nyte]

First, thank you for the guide. It made my leveling go much easier and unlike Minion's, it seemed to be geared more towards new players and those that don't understand the game yet (I will probably revisit Minion's now that I am 80). For the new thief it makes things easier to understand. That said, I have 54 skill points left; is there anything you recommended outside if what you have in the guide?

- Cylint

[Maxtofunator]

Cylint Nyte, on 12 October 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

First, thank you for the guide. It made my leveling go much easier and unlike Minion's, it seemed to be geared more towards new players and those that don't understand the game yet (I will probably revisit Minion's now that I am 80). For the new thief it makes things easier to understand. That said, I have 54 skill points left; is there anything you recommended outside if what you have in the guide?

- Cylint

I would like to let you know that if you plan to get a legendary weapon, even though you obviously can get other skill points through map completion and "leveling" to hang onto those skill points if none of those extra utilities sound interesting to you

[Cylint Nyte]

Will do. I bought about 3 new things but only because I felt I had to lol.

[Elrathan]

One thing I'd like to add is that there is actually a situation where its preferable NOT to detonate cluster bombs. Cluster bombs are one of the most spam-able blast finisher in the game, meaning that you can get a ridiculous amount of combo's out of them. As such, I leave them undetonated if they are going to trigger a useful (i.e. not a AoE chaos armour form an ethereal field when no one is close enough to get it) combo and detonate them otherwise.

This also goes for skills like LDB on DD, as you can do some life saving condition removal in a light field if you'r on the ball.

[Sheepski]

Thanks for the guide, I've just started leveling a thief, and I've always found them a little complicated/outside my usual play style and so been looking for a niche which I can make work... and you've certainly given me some food for thought and some nice suggestions.

[atomicmew]

Quote

My recommendation. from personal experience in Higher level content and general PvE is to go mix and match between;

Berserker - Power, Precision, Critical damage.

Rampager - Power, Precision, Condition damage.

Something to consider here is; Berserker offers more Power than Rampager while Rampager offers more precision than Berserker. Critting hard is great, but not very useful if you don't have crticial chance to crit often!

I went for full Berserker Jewelry and 2 pieces of Berserker armor pieces. The other 4 pieces are Rampager.

This is a mistake, you don't want to mix and match.  The reason being, all of these effects are multiplicative not additive.  You want to find out where most of your damage is coming from, whether its normal dmg vs. condition dmg and then max out whichever it is.  If 60% of your damage is from normal damage, you will get more damage from full crit gear compared to half crit gear and half condition gear.

For a thief based on crits for damage, in general: crit damage > power > precision >>> condition damage

Crit damage is the MOST important stat.  You should not be taking condition damage on gear at all for such a build.

Edited by atomicmew, 14 October 2012 - 12:05 AM.

[ivonbeton]

atomicmew, on 14 October 2012 - 12:03 AM, said:

This is a mistake, you don't want to mix and match.  The reason being, all of these effects are multiplicative not additive.  You want to find out where most of your damage is coming from, whether its normal dmg vs. condition dmg and then max out whichever it is.  If 60% of your damage is from normal damage, you will get more damage from full crit gear compared to half crit gear and half condition gear.

For a thief based on crits for damage, in general: crit damage > power > precision >>> condition damage

Crit damage is the MOST important stat.  You should not be taking condition damage on gear at all for such a build.

Agreed. I've played hybrid before, it's decent but not optimal. A lot of the damage multipliers are based on % so they are, like you said, not merely additive.

(I like to distribute my gear 1/4 to survival and the other 3/4 equally distributed between power, precision and crit damage)

Edited by ivonbeton, 18 October 2012 - 01:57 PM.

[The Shadow]

ivonbeton, on 18 October 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

Agreed. I've played hybrid before, it's decent but not optimal. A lot of the damage multipliers are based on % so they are, like you said, not merely additive.

(I like to distribute my gear 1/4 to survival and the other 3/4 equally distributed between power, precision and crit damage)

I've been trying this out recently. I still maintain that being a hybrid is the way to go. However.. it's very situational.  I now have 3 sets. Knight's, Rampager's and Berserker's. I find myself swapping in and out different pieces in dungeons and general PvE fairly often. The thing is.. It's not linear. It's not all about maximum damage. Condition Damage essentially increases your survival providing you alter your game-style slightly. But you're right, for flat-out crit damage, stick with Berserker. I just find certain situations call on something a little different than just flat-out crit damage.

[ivonbeton]

The Shadow, on 01 November 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

I've been trying this out recently. I still maintain that being a hybrid is the way to go. However.. it's very situational.  I now have 3 sets. Knight's, Rampager's and Berserker's. I find myself swapping in and out different pieces in dungeons and general PvE fairly often. The thing is.. It's not linear. It's not all about maximum damage. Condition Damage essentially increases your survival providing you alter your game-style slightly. But you're right, for flat-out crit damage, stick with Berserker. I just find certain situations call on something a little different than just flat-out crit damage.

Have to agree on everything you said. Since I got my cultural t3, I had to stick with one gear build for some time. I regret overwriting my cond gear though. It's like you said, hybrid build is less linear and thus (atleast for me) more fun. Once I get some money again after treating myself to a new gear set with cultural skin and divinity runes, I intend on getting thoise exact same sets and keeping my Valkyrie pieces on top of that.

The problem I had with a hybrid build was that I felt like there was nothing I excelled at and that it had some glaring weaknesses because of it's situational nature. Somethign which can also be said about cond builds. Hence I got myself crit gear because atleast then I know when and where my strenghts and weaknesses are.

I loved my hybrid build and my condition build, but I felt like most weaponsets have major issues. Most of those stem from pistol being way too weak. I just hope they buff our ranged when they nerf backstab crits, so I can actually try some more builds instead of being forced into d/d because of the damage superiority.
(a big problem is that it's hard to find 2 weaponsets that compliment eachother and the playstyle of the thief)

(I'm actually playing d/d with lots of survivability, if that counts as 'hybrid' )

Edited by ivonbeton, 02 November 2012 - 02:08 AM.

[Vanchatron]

Thank you VERY much for this guide!

[Minion]

I've changed my stance on Shadowstep now... It's amazing. One for speed and mobility control but more importantly, it offers TWO stun breakers in one go. I really overlooked how useful that was.

[The Shadow]

Minion, on 18 November 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

I've changed my stance on Shadowstep now... It's amazing. One for speed and mobility control but more importantly, it offers TWO stun breakers in one go. I really overlooked how useful that was.

Likewise. That being said.. I've been using it exclusively in WvW. I still prefer Roll for Initiative in PvE.

[Atelniar]

I have not played GW2 for a long time, this fall, and just managed to get some playing done last night. Now, in the past (especially during the beta) I had a preconception that Steal was a decent, but not cookie-cutter ability the way ANet tried to sell it. I was wrong.

I had found many playstyles I like, and even read this thread before, but never posted (I am lazy like that). Normally, I find a lot of playstyles has an advantage or a disadvantage. Many tend to confuse traits with "talent trees" from other MMO's. I have too. I realised this the other night.

What would be really beneficial to me while leveling and doing PvP? A build with damage ouput, burst capabilities and utility. Now, there are many ways to reach that goal (which is great!) but now I see how strong Steal is as an ability, and how powerful SR is for scouting/escaping when you are not necessarily wielding a dagger.

My conclusion was very much that the slot skills Haste and SR are invaluable, as long as you spec far enough into Trickster and Shadow Arts. You will gain powerful utility and burst ability, and the focus in Critical Strikes, with the Executioner trait offers steady damage output in PvE during the second half of a boss fight. To a degree where you do not have to rely on stealthing for a 100% crit in PvP gear. You will easily punch a high treshold for crit percentage when you pop Steal, depending on your gear in PvE.

Now, why am I bothering saying all this? Is the spec OP? Not exactly. But it caters well to those who like to utilize many different weapons during their time spent playing. And it seems viable in both PvP and PvE. It has a good portion of group utility, and also offers enough burst to be a good solo player in PvP.

My build.

Alternative link.

I would love feedback on how I could improve it (especially as to how it works in PvE, which is my reason for posting this here to begin with), or how others view my build, as a whole month of hardly playing at all makes me feel rusty. I feel my build nailed its purpose decently, though.

This build does not imply that steal is a must, but it certainly proves how it can offer great utility, mobility and burst with a certain spec. It is a cookie-cutter tool if used correctly and my God is it a good one too. Especially when paired with Haste. No matter the weapon.

Edit: I mislinked the build at first. In Shadow Arts, the 10 point choice should be reducing cooldown of deception type abilities, in case the bugged tooltip confuses you by saying 3 instead of 1. The text should describe it correctly though.

Edited by Atelniar, 28 November 2012 - 06:19 AM.

[The Shadow]

Atelniar, on 28 November 2012 - 05:34 AM, said:

Snip

Been a while since I've checked this thread.

The build would work well. The only issue IMO is speccing for the cool-downs of both Deception and Trickery. If I were you, I'd pick one or the other, then pick utility skills to reflect that choice. Furthering this point, I don't believe signet of Agility makes sense here seeing as you should have more than enough precision with 30 Crit Strikes. I'd drop the signet for Shadowstep and benefit from condition removal as well as double stun-break

Sorry for the long wait. Hope this helps. This advice would benefit you (imo) in both PvE and PvP.

[MazingerZ]

I've been trying to get into S/, but I seriously dislike it automatically dictating 30 points in Critical Strikes to get Executioner.  It seems to not have a very dynamic play style that I've come to enjoy from playing D/ in PvE.

[The Shadow]

MazingerZ, on 20 December 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

I've been trying to get into S/, but I seriously dislike it automatically dictating 30 points in Critical Strikes to get Executioner.  It seems to not have a very dynamic play style that I've come to enjoy from playing D/ in PvE.

I generally have 30 in Critical Strikes in every Pow/ Crit build.

It's a pretty essential, unless you go full condition damage.