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Do all high level guardians play support?

guardian support

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#1 hazelnutspread

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:17 AM

Hi, currently my guardian is lvl 43 and im using this build

http://gw2skills.net...GEUgVPi39s3VBKC

It works well so far but I hear alot of people saying that at 80 all guardians are just support and that a guardian definitly cannot be a dps in dungeons, I don't want to be a healer, I like getting into the action and killing things, is all of this true? should I just drop guardian for a warrior or something? D:

#2 jpg1

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:19 AM

View Posthazelnutspread, on 17 September 2012 - 04:17 AM, said:

It works well so far but I hear alot of people saying that at 80 all guardians are just support and that a guardian definitly cannot be a dps in dungeons, I don't want to be a healer, I like getting into the action and killing things, is all of this true? should I just drop guardian for a warrior or something? D:

I guarantee you that you won't become a healer as the conventional way of looking at it. Guardians face a lot of action filling up that "support" role. You don't just join a party to become a healer. Healing for the most part of it is a byproduct of the boons and effects Guardians dish out in combat - like healing an area when you dodge. Healing is important for the Guardian on a personal level since you have to stay alive long to hold a front together with a Warrior or any other melee class you party with. Don't look at support as you would normally see it from other games. You'll be very surprised. Take for example my  run in Honor of the Waves last weekend. I was with a Warrior who was built Tanky with 24K HP. I, on the other hand, had like 13K. Despite the big difference in HP, I seldom get dropped even being part of our vanguard. It's because of the "support" role that you are claiming.

Guardians are about staying power not just healing. The longer you stand (not stand around, you have to move and kite a lot too), the better it is for your party.

On your build, it will be difficult to run dungeons because you don't have Valor nor Honor. Taking either or both makes the Guardian a survival beast.

#3 hazelnutspread

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:23 AM

I can see how valor and honor would def help for survivability, I guess I was trying to go for pure dmg/cond dmg what with the fire
Blue fire is so cool with guardians, its a shame it isnt so viable at end game =/

#4 jpg1

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:35 AM

I'm sure there is a design that balances both. There are obvious sacrifices if you want to be a faster damaging machine. Try looking at some of these, and hope that it helps. I will simply put in what stats I think would matter. I will leave it up to you to mix up the traits.

Arrange as enumerated: Zeal/Radiance/Valor/Honor/Virtues

0/25/30/0/15 (or 0/20/30/0/20) - High Critical Chance and +30% Crit Damage, Can use Block + Burn Method, Has 15% Longer Virtues and Shorter Recharge. Offset with Power + Vitality gears. (Use Sword + Focus & Greatsword = lot's of blind)

or

0/20/30/20/0 (or 0/15/30/20/5) - High Critical, decent HP and Healing. (Little or No Virtue extensions)

I'm not used to using Zeal but there are two traits that I want on that tree, namely Focus Mastery and Fiery Wrath. But I can do away with those if it means a trade-off for survival.

Edited by jpg1, 17 September 2012 - 05:35 AM.


#5 hazelnutspread

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:59 AM

Thanks so much for being so helpful!
Based off of your info I made two builds for the traits, which one do you like more?
1. http://gw2skills.net...DAETRFz41DISxGC

2.http://gw2skills.net...WVIe4Hq41DISxGC ( I just took 5 points out of honor and virtue to get fiery wrath, although 20% faster CD on the GS is pretty cool so giving that up would suck)

#6 jpg1

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:14 AM

I'm certainly not an expert I get dropped pretty hard at times and it's part of the learning.

One point I'd make for both builds, always have Smite Condition. It is a 1K+ heal for 16s recharge and AOE damage. You can play with two other utility skills. You can also switch Blind Exposure for Signet Mastery, the Invulnerability is not worth the Trait. Faster Heal is better.

Aside from that I guess you just have to build on your gears. I'd save up for multiple sets even if one of it won't be visually appealing.

Just keep exploring. You might find something better than my suggestions. Please remember to share! :lol:

#7 Dvonn

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:16 AM

If you want to be a DPS you can, but not a pure one. Not in this game. As there's no tank nor healer.

You have to find a balanced way to play, as should every other profession. Even if you have Valor or Honor, it will help you to be in first line doing damage if you want to. But with only DPS build you will be defeated so often.

Anyway, remember you have equipment and accessories to help with other stats ;)

#8 hazelnutspread

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:22 AM

The only problem with getting signet mastery is that I'm not using any signets haha, but I'm def getting smite condition

I can't decide if I want the 20% faster GS cooldown, or the 10% extra damage to burning foes...

Edited by hazelnutspread, 17 September 2012 - 06:24 AM.


#9 jpg1

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:31 AM

2H 20% CDs are for people who permanently run with 2H weapons,otherwise waiting for CD is okay with GS. Once you've pulled the mob, you don't really need #5 skill which has the longest CD.

#10 hazelnutspread

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:34 AM

How does permanently running around with a GS even work ? I didn't know that was possible, switchin weapons brings alot of extra utility

#11 turbo234

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:40 AM

Being in high level areas, I constantly find myself bringing skills such as "save yourselves" to draw conditions from allies(along with godmode for 10 seconds) "hold the line" and "wall of reflection." I'll switch in "stand your ground" if I know there are key kds to avoid. These are quick activation skills, and can support your team while focusing on damage. Occasionally I'll bring a staff for a mix of healing and damage as well.

Edited by turbo234, 17 September 2012 - 06:41 AM.


#12 Azzahn

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:46 AM

I think s/he meant someone using both sets for 2h weapons, i.e. GS/Hammer or GS/Staff, not double GS.

#13 jpg1

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:47 AM

View Posthazelnutspread, on 17 September 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

How does permanently running around with a GS even work ? I didn't know that was possible, switchin weapons brings alot of extra utility

What I meant was if you bring two 2H weapons, 2H Mastery would be great. Aside from that I wouldn't get it. And 2H Mastery is more for Hammer I think, since you want the skills to CD faster. For GS not some much. BUT having two 2H weapons will have you with no range weapon. You need range despite Scepter being not that great.

#14 Arkantos

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:51 AM

View Postjpg1, on 17 September 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

What I meant was if you bring two 2H weapons, 2H Mastery would be great. Aside from that I wouldn't get it. And 2H Mastery is more for Hammer I think, since you want the skills to CD faster. For GS not some much. BUT having two 2H weapons will have you with no range weapon. You need range despite Scepter being not that great.

You forgot staff. Granted it's not amazing, but the healing orb and party-wide might is pretty decent support.

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#15 hazelnutspread

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:54 AM

I'm trying out the build right now, it's working great! when I do switch to the sword/focus, when should I be using ray of judgement? should i just use it when i need the regenration ?

#16 NeoAltoX

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:34 AM

I agree with what a lot of other posters have said and I just felt like I needed to elaborate.

It's not that Guardians CAN'T DPS, people keep spewing that nonsense and it often makes me laugh. A Guardian can pump out tons of damage, the key to dungeons and especially Exploration mode though is not just damage, but team synergy.

That's the million dollar term that a lot of players sadly don't understand.Guardians are king of team based play. Your ability to generate almost every boon in the game and a steady supply of regen is a game changer. Regen and Aegis let you do fun things like rush in save teammates, stay in AoE for the last second hit, and cleanse nasty conditions from the party.

This is my build for all group play http://gw2skills.net...VCBrPMPYPwI4rjA

I use the GS for dmg, and scepter/torch for fights that need range or kiting or general running away. The real fun is in the ability to use shouts, and virtues at will.

Use Save Yourselves at the beginning of the fight for the sweet buffs. Fury will cause you to crit a lot which with Power of the Virteous will give you a sweet dmg buff.In addition you'll be stacking Might buffs to the group like crazy. Retreat lets you force an Aegis buff to sheild agianst incoming dmg and Swiftness to bolt out of AoE's or just move around fast in general.

Using your Virtues gives you retailiation, which is awesome. Then lets talk about  Resolve cleansing THREE conditions. And oh yea Shouts turn a condition into a boon as well.

I love this build so much because you have a tool for every situation and your DPS will still be awesome, but above all else your survivability will be much better. Going this route lets you safely go for Power/Precision gear without looking like a scrub that dies every pull. Now some people really love Valor, but I find that in a ground situation you can't really force a tanking position which IMO greatly reduces Shield's effectiveness. The aggro is sometimes crazy in this game and being able to passively help your allies while taking care of your own buisness will make people LOVE you.

#17 jpg1

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:20 AM

View PostNeoAltoX, on 17 September 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

I agree with what a lot of other posters have said and I just felt like I needed to elaborate.

It's not that Guardians CAN'T DPS, people keep spewing that nonsense and it often makes me laugh. A Guardian can pump out tons of damage, the key to dungeons and especially Exploration mode though is not just damage, but team synergy.


Couldn't agree more. However, with working with Boons a lot, people who aren't as adept as some might find Altruistic Healing would be very  helpful. Your build didn't work around that but I guess the Maxed out Honor does it's part enough for you not to get into the Valor Tree. Thank you for the input.

View Posthazelnutspread, on 17 September 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

I'm trying out the build right now, it's working great! when I do switch to the sword/focus, when should I be using ray of judgement? should i just use it when i need the regenration ?

For General PVE you can throw it out when you need to Blind and Gain Regeneration for yourself. I haven't tried it but I think this can be bounced towards an ally first if they need the regeneration.

#18 Linfang

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:51 AM

I do greatsword and staff in dungeons. GS is great for yanking all the mobs in one spot. If things get tough I back out and switch to staff. Start popping symbols, healing orb, might and heal. drop down a line of warding to keep melee mobs at bay. Wall of reflection for stupid ranged mobs trying to dps down your party members. save yourself, resolve with the regen and I revive fallen people as the mellee fight. works good and my party leader says it helps alot.

#19 Dalden

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 03:46 PM

I use a build heavy in Honor and Virtues for the healing and condition removal and shout buffs. The truth is, if you want to be in the middle of the action, you need your buffs and heals, we don't have the health pool of a Warrior. With my build I can keep up protection 100% of the time and always have some sort of regeneration or a heal on the way, plus constant removal of conditions which can add up to be huge damage on you if you cannot remove them. And the benefit of all this is that you can pretty much share all your buffs, heals, and condition removal. It's kinda dumb NOT to be support in dungeons because Guardian is so good at it.

The longer you stay up, the more damage you do and the more damage your party does and less damage they take. Guardian can majorly effect the difficulty of a fight.

#20 G L J

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:11 PM

I go 20/0/10/30/10 with a Spirit weapon build and hammer/sword&shield weapons. If I was to compare it to guild wars one I would find myself as the second warrior - the more controlling frontliner that sets up the disruption necessary for kills - and the healer. Then again this isn't guild wars one, so I often find myself being both unkillable and highly damaging to enemies.

In dungeon running I find myself only playing support in DEs, mostly because it lets me be lazy and still tag everything with the staff. I'm very tanky in dungeons and can deal good damage as well as absorb a good amount of damage for my team.

#21 Alaroxr

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:19 PM

I melee DPS every Explorable Mode dungeon I'm in, it seems to work fine for me.

Of course, I use a bit of support and control via Virtues and Utility Skills (and some weapon skills).

#22 hazelnutspread

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:52 PM

would it be better to get the 10% dmg against burning foes, or inspired virtue? it seems like the stacks of might it gives when activating the virtue are really good

#23 Red_Falcon

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:09 PM

You can deal tons of DPS by speccing into burning/GS (+25%dmg) and then go with purging flames / judges intervention and Justice traits; it'll never be as much dmg as Warrior or Ele, but still great.
The problem is that, to me, this is boring.
I don't want to be always checking for the target to burn in order to deal decent dmg, it's not funny.

I'd rather deal acceptable dmg and be a walking wall of steel while buffing everyone else.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 17 September 2012 - 09:09 PM.


#24 hazelnutspread

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:40 PM

might increases your damage too so i guess the question would be , does the might you gain from inspired virtue end up up to be more damage than the 10% increase to burning would give you

#25 oronbz

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:05 PM

View PostLinfang, on 17 September 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

I do greatsword and staff in dungeons. GS is great for yanking all the mobs in one spot. If things get tough I back out and switch to staff. Start popping symbols, healing orb, might and heal. drop down a line of warding to keep melee mobs at bay. Wall of reflection for stupid ranged mobs trying to dps down your party members. save yourself, resolve with the regen and I revive fallen people as the mellee fight. works good and my party leader says it helps alot.

Can you give me your build, i'm using this set of weapons, but trying to figure out a build for it.

Thanks

#26 indure

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:24 PM

View Posthazelnutspread, on 17 September 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

might increases your damage too so i guess the question would be , does the might you gain from inspired virtue end up up to be more damage than the 10% increase to burning would give you

It gives 3 stacks of Might for 5 seconds. In no way will that be equivalent to a 10% damage increase. But it gives 3 stacks to your entire party, and the other parts of Inspired Virtues are also very helpful for group play.

#27 GasolineSparrow

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:20 PM

Guardians can do damage just fine.  Grab a greatsword and sword+torch in PvE, and you can kill entire groups of mobs without taking damage.  In dungeons, they don't go down quite as easily and the emphasis sometimes shifts toward being able to contain the mobs long enough.  DPS is important, but we should remember not only the "D" part of DPS, but also the "S" part.  A good guardian enables the party more time to do damage, so even though the total DPS will be lower, you hold the line longer, so the total damage dealt by the party before getting wiped is higher.  Essentially, you are sacrificing your own damage dealing abilities, but increasing the damage dealing ability of everyone else in your group.  I imagine this is the reason why a guardian who can survive long is more popular for dungeon runs.

#28 Linfang

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 10:38 AM

View Postoronbz, on 17 September 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

Can you give me your build, i'm using this set of weapons, but trying to figure out a build for it.

Thanks

30 Valor: Strength in Numbers , Meditation mastery, Monks Focus or Altruistic Healing
30 Honor: Writ of Exaltation, Writ of Persistence, Writ of Merciful  
10 Virtues: I switch this all the time depending on fights.

Save yourself, purging flame, 3rd utility I change depending on party makeup, but I usually have smite condition by default. . I only ran CM, but did it like 30 times :) So by this is only the build I know my utilities well.

Edited by Linfang, 18 September 2012 - 10:38 AM.


#29 ilr

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:22 PM

View Posthazelnutspread, on 17 September 2012 - 04:17 AM, said:

I don't want to be a healer
Plz  Leave this class now b/c you're just generalizing and slandering a proud heritage of "balanced" Monks.
I'll make it simple:  THIS WILL NEVER BE WORLD OF HEALCRAFT.
...And it will never be Pally-Craft either.

The game doesn't ALLOW you to be a pure healer or Spiker, infact it practically forces you into a very balanced mix of Protection, Smiting, & Healing all at once at every turn.  Which is a huge improvement over GW1.  All of your gear is a perfect Trinity of toughness, power, & healing  OR vitality & condition/precision .  Your traits support every approach as well.  And if you expect to just waltz through most Dungeons like I've been doing, then you need to approach it balanced as well.  Either that or go play a different game b/c this game doesn't support Glass Cannons in structured environments like the Arenas & Explorables.  You can't even get away with that crap in WvWvW, your attack ranges are all too short.

But most of all,  you're completely wrong if you honestly believe the Support meta is anything but the pinnacle of Massive Multiplayer metas.  Everything else is an Antisocial Neckbearded Basements dweller's Crutch.  Especially DPS!

Edited by ilr, 18 September 2012 - 03:24 PM.






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