31 replies to this topic

[maxmane]

I seem to be drawn to the classes in this game that apperentaly get significantly better later on. Tested out all classes and found I enjoyed the Ele, Mesmer and Thief the most. Played them all to level 7 so far. Now I noticed this especially on my Mesmer. While I can dodge, role, strafe and kite well enough and evade most of the damage, for all my effort I don't even kill things as fast as other classes no instead it takes quite a bit longer.

So I headed over to the Mesmer forums and I was told that it gets better later on. The situation with my Ele is not completly the same - attacks feels stronger but you're squishier - still, so far till level 8 it feels like you have to put in a lot more effort for a worse result. Therefor I wanted to ask if it's the same as with the Mesmer and the situation improves as you get level up and get more traits and utilities.

[Aetou]

The class definitely improves.  However, I'm not sure I can honestly say there becomes a point when you can kill things as mindlessly as a Guardian or a Warrior.  You also remain very fragile and can't take on 4 mobs without working hard unlike some other classes that really can just facetank them while spamming AOE.

[Soylent]

Sure it gets better, but never to the point where you feel like you can take over the world. The traits are pretty lacklustre apart from a few, and most only work in a single attunement. Personally I feel let down.

[keniasty12]

Simply - NO. As an lvl 80 elementalist that's all I can say... What u get later on is the fact that you're the most squishy class from all, dealing medicore dmg. (there are many classes who get more base hp, more def from armor and still easily outdamage you, even if you have glasscannon build). Furthermore, there is no build, that would be good and convenient for all 3 aspects of the game: farming/exploring, going to dungeons and WvWvW. If you choose pwr/crit build, you will be able to explore the world, farm at lvl80 zones, but mobs still won't die in 3 seconds, and as these zones are surrounded with zergs of mobs, there is a high possibility that you will get attacked by 3-4 mobs at once, so you will have to show some skill, dance a lot to actually survive. However, with such build, going to dungeons will be almost impossible as you will be 1-hitted by trash mobs, not mentioning bosses, which leads to corpse running and a lot of repairs. On the other hand, if you decide to build for survivability, sure... you will be able to survive a bit longer/easier in dungeons, but still You will die from time to time, and farming/exploring lvl80 areas will become much safer. Sadly, you will also lose all your dmg potential. Your dmg during dungeons will s***, and killing mobs while exploring/farming will take much longer and become very boring. All in all, playing an elementalist requires more skill than other classes, fast thinking, fast fingers, and it doesn't reward you in any way for all the effort you put in. Statements, that elementalists are rewarded with their 4 different attunements, and a lot of conditions compared to other classes are total bullsh**, as we all know that condition builds s*** in PvE due to bleed cap, and the fact that burn stacks only to duration... I've already made myself a warrior, which I want to exp till 80 and use later for much easier and faster farming t6 nodes in Orr zones.

Edited by keniasty12, 23 September 2012 - 12:25 AM.

[Diogo Silva]

In the sense that it's an hard-to-master profession, like the Mesmer? Yes, as you learn to play with an Elementalist, you'll get much, much better.

In the sense that it gets significantly better with traits, like the Mesmer? No, not at all. Mesmers traits completely improve the effectiveness behind their illusions, shatters, rupts and the like. Elementalists traits are conditional and lacking, where they usually only affect one attunement at once, and even then their effect is not meaningful enough. The only exception is the arcana line, which improves the mechanics elementalists most rely on.

But arcana stat boosts are not very meaningful early in the game (+X% boon duration and +X% attunement cooldown rate). Early in the game, traitlines that increase your stats by non-% are more effective than late game, while +1%/ +2% stats are worth nothing, so investing in, say, mesmer's dueling where you get + precision, + critical damage and good traits is better than elementalists' air line, which gives the same stats but worse traits.

Edited by Diogo Silva, 23 September 2012 - 12:38 AM.

[maxmane]

Thanks for all the replies. From the feedback here it seems on your way to 80 you get neither much better in the survivbility nor in the damage department.

One thing I'm wondering though, does your guys feedback include the Hammer builds, that seem to only recently have appeared. They use conjured weapons and claim great improvements in both survivability and damge, some even going as far as saying you can more than a guardian while doing even better damage. Or aren't they all that great?

[MisfitAndy]

maxmane, on 23 September 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

Thanks for all the replies. From the feedback here it seems on your way to 80 you get neither much better in the survivbility nor in the damage department.

One thing I'm wondering though, does your guys feedback include the Hammer builds, that seem to only recently have appeared. They use conjured weapons and claim great improvements in both survivability and damge, some even going as far as saying you can more than a guardian while doing even better damage. Or aren't they all that great?

Hammer builds are a gimmick.  I have tried them and my survivability is much worse with that build than just going S/D because you need to be in melee range to deal damage.  I'm not too certain that my damage is much better, either, in fact it appeared worse.  Your mileage may vary.

You do improve, although not tremendously, in both damage and survivability throughout the levels.  I hazard a guess to say that that improvement is slightly less than other classes, who are deemed "faceroll" classes, but if you enjoy Elementalist then don't let that stop you.  Getting those ten points into arcane and getting the "on-attunement" bonuses is definitely a plus, as is learning how powerful that can be.  On demand protection, regeneration, swiftness, and might (in order of importance).

[Soylent]

Honestly the hammer build may be the best thing we have atm, but like MisfitAndy said, your mileage may vary. I personally tried it once I hit 40 (not long ago) and it deals much more damage than your usual stuff, but it requires you to be in melee, which coupled with us being so extremely squishy is not a good combination. The only thing that makes it viable is the blind on the 3rd hit of the 1st hammer ability. And it's only really playable in open world PvE, forget dungeons, PvP and WvW with the hammer.

But if you're going to rely on a utility spell to make the class somewhat playable, you'll be better off just playing a Mesmer.

[Cesip]

My 80 Ele is fully equipped in exotics. I have a power/pre/critdmg set and a pre vit healing set. Ive farmed both sets as a glass cannon in explorables and nearly ever died. Those glassy warriors trying to facetank stuff died more often than i did.

I play 10 fire 30 air 30 water when i want to have some nice condition removal for dungeons or wvwvw. If i want to kill stuff in wvwvw i go full glass 30 fire 30 air 10 water. In my dmg gear im at 3.5k attack 53% crit and 103% crit dmg. I run arcane wave for the blast combos and arcane shield and mistform. In wvwvw my fire auto attack crits for 4k+ on other lvl 80. The area denial through meteor shower + slow fields + other ae crap is unmatched. If somebody stands in my ae for several secs he/she/it just dies. Ice Spike (staff water 2) crits for 7k+ on most ppl since nearly everybody play glass cannon in wvwvw.

If i want to be supportive i go 30 arcane 30 water 10 air. Lay down water 5 equip my healing set with runes of dwayna and spam ae heals the best i can. Removing conditions like a mad man. Evasive arcana counts as a blast finisher. So you can have 2 dodge roles + arcane wave + earth 2 (got to lay down that first) which adds up to 4 x 1.6k AE heal (depends on your healing power. Im sitting at like 1.4k in the right gear). Another thing i didnt test yet is using lightning hammer to spam blast finishers in water fields. Could even end up in more total healing. Those heals can turn battles in wvwvw. Coupled with ae protection for your teammates you are a beast.

Farming in pve is a bit harder. I usually go scep/dag and do some nasty might stacking with ring of fire + 3 blast finishers. at 15-20 stacks of might things just die insanely fast. Warriors do the same. Use your combos and play with boons. Use the heal Glyph and trait for shorter cooldown of glyphs. Your elite will also benefit. If you play glassy take 2 or even 3 (i always use arcane wave) defensive utilities. Use your healing glyph in the right attunement. If you want to you can have protection up for about 15 secs every  30 or so seconds. Just google for auramancer.

Its true in spvp eles are really hard to play and most classes are more effective. But i have a hell of a time in wvwvw when stuff justs melts. Playing staff in wvwvw you have to cycle through all your attunements. I see lots of Eles staying in fire spamming 1 and laying down lava pits and waiting for meteor shower coming off cooldown. Laying down the water slow field + Ice spike or even opening with earth 2 creates great burst. 90% of the ppl in wvwvw dont run out of earth 2 cause they dont know the mechanic. You can get some nasty burst going in stationary fights. You are squishy as hell but you got to play smart. Use defensive utilities to get out of messed up situations. Dont forget to get conditions removal. Never use mist form while having a crapload of conditions on yourself. There are so many little things making you a better ele.

Just my 2 cents. Feel free to ask if you want any more advice. I wont post any videos or stuff. I can get some dmg screens if ppl think im just talking...

[Shadowrose]

No~    .

[tornado64]

Just tested hammer build on Svanir/Chieftain, and I think it's not that great. The damage is low compared to D/D build, the survability is not that nice, that you could just tank veteran mobs on 80. Best build overall seems condition S/F or S/D. It's insanely easy to kill Svanir/Chieftain with that, just put your Earth elemental out and he will tank until they die. I probably stick to D/D glass cannon for mob farming (nothing over aoe burst for low HP mobs) and with condition S/D for dungeons. Just bothers me that I have to farm another exotic armor set.

[Quietnine]

maxmane, on 22 September 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

I seem to be drawn to the classes in this game that apperentaly get significantly better later on. Tested out all classes and found I enjoyed the Ele, Mesmer and Thief the most. Played them all to level 7 so far. Now I noticed this especially on my Mesmer. While I can dodge, role, strafe and kite well enough and evade most of the damage, for all my effort I don't even kill things as fast as other classes no instead it takes quite a bit longer.

So I headed over to the Mesmer forums and I was told that it gets better later on. The situation with my Ele is not completly the same - attacks feels stronger but you're squishier - still, so far till level 8 it feels like you have to put in a lot more effort for a worse result. Therefor I wanted to ask if it's the same as with the Mesmer and the situation improves as you get level up and get more traits and utilities.

ele's aren't terrible, but they don't make it clear that with a staff we are nothing but a support class. one guy made a nice post in this thread saying fire-staff can auto for 4k crits, i have a full dps exotic set also, and i've never seen that happen ever. i usually run 20/10/10/10/20 (perma fury, blasting staff), and every piece of my gear has +crit damage. i crit for about 1800 with fireball. if i change the build to 30/30/10 and let the might stack a bit, i get to 2500. it would take time setting up combo fields to stack might to very high levels in order to see 4k fireballs, if they are indeed even possible.

my ranger has much more health, 1500 effective range, much more damage, 6-12 seconds of damage immunity through signet and sometimes protect me, and he can do damage during that immunity. Makes you think a bit different about mist form. he stealths when he gets cc'd thanks to hide in plain sight. the main kicker is that he has few ranged aoe options, and no access to permanent swiftness like elementalists do.

swiftness is really the only thing i enjoy about my elementalist in wvw these days. my mesmer buddy has swiftness, more damage, more health, stealth, and constantly sets up ambush portals, not to mention is much more evasive with his mirrors.

Edited by Quietnine, 23 September 2012 - 05:40 PM.

[Elegance]

As others have said, no.
I suffered to the end, and ended up rerolling instead.

[Danael]

Well, as others said, it depends on what you enjoy about a class. If you like to faceroll things without moving a lot Ele is clearly nothing for you. I think the fun comes when you're aware of all the problems others mentioned above and despite that have fun and do good damage. Personally I use a condition build with according sigils on the weapons and that gets easier the higher my level is. Also, I'm a Dagger/Focus Ele so I use traits like Stone Splinters to make sure I hit hard enough. If you find a build that works for you and you have fun playing the class - why not? If you feel playing Ele is a chore - look for another class.

[Anelyn]

Aetou, on 22 September 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

The class definitely improves.  However, I'm not sure I can honestly say there becomes a point when you can kill things as mindlessly as a Guardian or a Warrior.  You also remain very fragile and can't take on 4 mobs without working hard unlike some other classes that really can just facetank them while spamming AOE.

If by working hard you mean changing attunements to make combos or control / dps / heal etc then I fully agree, but that's the beauty of the class, compared to others who get boring after couple levels because you don't have anything else to do but repeat 1-2-3-4-5.

Fragile as in unnable to facetank mobs while spamming your skills yes, but you have no problems dealing with any type of mobs (can do veteran with 3 adds easily, mixed ranged and melee) as long as you gear and spec for whatever you want to do, and pick your utility skills according to situation. More so, use terrain to your advantage, be aware of your surroundings and everything will be fun and challenging (which is what a game should be).

[Neato]

Ele doesn't get better, no. Anet nerfed its damage too hard after BWE1, it's a crippled class. It has to try twice as hard as another class to get the same results, and the margin for error is very slim. If you mess up slightly, you die horrendously. Other classes have huge margins for errors, but not Ele.

I tried to stick with it, but in the end it's just way too gimped. I hope it gets buffed at some point...

If you want a caster, at the moment I think Necro is probably a much better choice. You can get a lot of AoE with the staff, and it has a huge health pool (and an extra hp bar with death shroud), massive survivability, and pets (which things attack first until higher levels more or less), and it even has an AoE heal (#2 staff attack Mark of Blood, can be spammed constantly), and hell... it can eat conditions like om nom nom... Consume Conditions

[Danael]

Neato, on 23 September 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

Anet nerfed its damage too hard after BWE1, it's a crippled class.

At least now I'm sure that it's not just perception. I though I was doing something wrong then.

[IJudicator]

As other people have stated, no it doesn' really get better.  I've ended up rerolling on a warrior.

Edited by IJudicator, 23 September 2012 - 07:10 PM.

[The_Playwright]

Danael, on 23 September 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

Well, as others said, it depends on what you enjoy about a class. If you like to faceroll things without moving a lot Ele is clearly nothing for you. I think the fun comes when you're aware of all the problems others mentioned above and despite that have fun and do good damage. Personally I use a condition build with according sigils on the weapons and that gets easier the higher my level is. Also, I'm a Dagger/Focus Ele so I use traits like Stone Splinters to make sure I hit hard enough. If you find a build that works for you and you have fun playing the class - why not? If you feel playing Ele is a chore - look for another class.

This.  Elementalist is not an easy faceroll.  If you're a staff/scepter user, it depends heavily on combo fields/chaining skill shots together well, and intelligent use of your utilities.  We also happen to have the worst elites in the game (I've played every class, so I can say this for a fact.  The summon is the least useful, and the transformation is the most limiting/least damaging of any transformation skill.  It's very, very disappointing.)

I would like to add, however, that like some other posters in this forum, I believe a well played and built elementalist to be a notch above other classes.  The second I started playing dagger/dagger, I knew it was the way I wanted to go.  It just fit my playstyle.  So I built around being a tanky/support elementalist.  DESPITE building to support a team, I have never lost a 1v1 in WvW.  I've trashed warriors, heartseeker rogues, mesmers, necros, rangers, engineers, etc.  Now I suspect a big part of this is the way I built.  Everyone seems to build glass cannon in WvW, whereas I built for sustain.  I still dish out 4k crits with my fire grab (and I'm using green/rare gear, no exotics.)  I also heal for a good 2k every cleansing wave/water attunement switch/+300/sec regen up constantly/200 per spell cast(and a standard combo is 3-4 spells with a second or two), and almost every auto attack counts as 2 spell casts for the signet.  I go from 0 to full in 20 seconds or less (And everyone nearby also gets healed for that 15k hp).  But that's where I'm flimsy -- I sacrificed vitality for all this.  So conditions rip me apart -- or would if dodging/water attunement/cleansing waves didn't cure my conditions.  Did I mention 30 seconds of uptime on protection every 45 seconds?

So I pretty much beat these other classes by out-healing their DPS while ripping apart their glass-spec.  I'm not sure how I'd do vs a bunker spec.  Probably be an endless fight.  It's quite fun face-tanking a gate as people arrow cart you though, especially as an elementalist.

I have to reiterate--  It's much harder to play a d/d elementalist than a bunker guardian.  I've made both--I know.  Elementalist is much squishier too.  But the mobility is insane.  You just can't escape a zerg with a d/d elementalist at point, hopping from one person to another and ccing them just long enough for your allies to catch up.

To answer the initial question--I felt much stronger as I went up in level.  Not because I was killing things faster (I wasn't,) but because I could survive more encounters.  I don't have much experience with the staff.  Ground circles feel very unintuitive to me in this game.  But once they fix Arcane Power, I suspect staff elementalists will dish out the most AoE damage burst in the game.

If you're not always switching attunement and sending your abilities to CD, you're not playing the class right.  I'm not saying you're not, but I do know people who, like with weapon switching, have a tendency to sit in the same attunement and auto attack when cds are up.  More so than any other class, elementalists always have to gogogo.

As for the suggestion to go necro--no.  Until they fix the necro bugs--take this from someone who has played both heavily--they are much weaker than an elementalist.  They are much harder to level due to being so reliant on conditions.  Their death shroud is a joke right now--merely an extra shield to block burst damage.  They need some serious love--more so than any other class I have played.  I tried a death shroud dancer, I tried a conditionmancer, a powermancer, a life-stealer, a minion master, and a wellmancer.  I thought siphoning wells might give them a chance--but they only siphon 43 health a hit.  That's so much less than a guardian symbol (which is far more spammable,) it's not even funny.  That's pretty much the state of all their grandmaster traits.  Woo, you can death shroud every 5 seconds!  And guess what, no practical way to return life force!  Except for that trait that gives 5% more life force regen! (really, just 5%?)

Wow, I'm going off on a tangent here.

TL:DR --  Try some other classes and compare.  Maybe elementalist is not for you.  Early on, I was clearing big groups at about the same speed as a warrior.  I found that in DEs, as a bonus, I could tag every mob before someone else got to it.  That meant tons of experience.  Maybe it's different for staff/scepter.  I can't speak for them.

[Soylent]

The_Playwright, on 23 September 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

This.  Elementalist is not an easy faceroll.  If you're a staff/scepter user, it depends heavily on combo fields/chaining skill shots together well, and intelligent use of your utilities.  We also happen to have the worst elites in the game (I've played every class, so I can say this for a fact.  The summon is the least useful, and the transformation is the most limiting/least damaging of any transformation skill.  It's very, very disappointing.)

I would like to add, however, that like some other posters in this forum, I believe a well played and built elementalist to be a notch above other classes.  The second I started playing dagger/dagger, I knew it was the way I wanted to go.  It just fit my playstyle.  So I built around being a tanky/support elementalist.  DESPITE building to support a team, I have never lost a 1v1 in WvW.  I've trashed warriors, heartseeker rogues, mesmers, necros, rangers, engineers, etc.  Now I suspect a big part of this is the way I built.  Everyone seems to build glass cannon in WvW, whereas I built for sustain.  I still dish out 4k crits with my fire grab (and I'm using green/rare gear, no exotics.)  I also heal for a good 2k every cleansing wave/water attunement switch/+300/sec regen up constantly/200 per spell cast(and a standard combo is 3-4 spells with a second or two), and almost every auto attack counts as 2 spell casts for the signet.  I go from 0 to full in 20 seconds or less (And everyone nearby also gets healed for that 15k hp).  But that's where I'm flimsy -- I sacrificed vitality for all this.  So conditions rip me apart -- or would if dodging/water attunement/cleansing waves didn't cure my conditions.  Did I mention 30 seconds of uptime on protection every 45 seconds?

So I pretty much beat these other classes by out-healing their DPS while ripping apart their glass-spec.  I'm not sure how I'd do vs a bunker spec.  Probably be an endless fight.  It's quite fun face-tanking a gate as people arrow cart you though, especially as an elementalist.

I have to reiterate--  It's much harder to play a d/d elementalist than a bunker guardian.  I've made both--I know.  Elementalist is much squishier too.  But the mobility is insane.  You just can't escape a zerg with a d/d elementalist at point, hopping from one person to another and ccing them just long enough for your allies to catch up.

To answer the initial question--I felt much stronger as I went up in level.  Not because I was killing things faster (I wasn't,) but because I could survive more encounters.  I don't have much experience with the staff.  Ground circles feel very unintuitive to me in this game.  But once they fix Arcane Power, I suspect staff elementalists will dish out the most AoE damage burst in the game.

If you're not always switching attunement and sending your abilities to CD, you're not playing the class right.  I'm not saying you're not, but I do know people who, like with weapon switching, have a tendency to sit in the same attunement and auto attack when cds are up.  More so than any other class, elementalists always have to gogogo.

As for the suggestion to go necro--no.  Until they fix the necro bugs--take this from someone who has played both heavily--they are much weaker than an elementalist.  They are much harder to level due to being so reliant on conditions.  Their death shroud is a joke right now--merely an extra shield to block burst damage.  They need some serious love--more so than any other class I have played.  I tried a death shroud dancer, I tried a conditionmancer, a powermancer, a life-stealer, a minion master, and a wellmancer.  I thought siphoning wells might give them a chance--but they only siphon 43 health a hit.  That's so much less than a guardian symbol (which is far more spammable,) it's not even funny.  That's pretty much the state of all their grandmaster traits.  Woo, you can death shroud every 5 seconds!  And guess what, no practical way to return life force!  Except for that trait that gives 5% more life force regen! (really, just 5%?)

Wow, I'm going off on a tangent here.

TL:DR --  Try some other classes and compare.  Maybe elementalist is not for you.  Early on, I was clearing big groups at about the same speed as a warrior.  I found that in DEs, as a bonus, I could tag every mob before someone else got to it.  That meant tons of experience.  Maybe it's different for staff/scepter.  I can't speak for them.

Mind posting your trait and utility skill selection? Stats you went for on gear?

Edited by Soylent, 23 September 2012 - 11:24 PM.

[Chankiri]

I'm not 80 but I do play alot of sPvP and from tha experience I can tell you Ele dmg is gimp to say the least I play support cause I feel like they really are a support class I can usually win 2v3s sometimes even 2v4s with a warrior that can deal the dmg but in a 1v1 scenario most classes either shit on u or its an endless battle until u stuff up cause any mistakes = your death.
Flip side is I find ele very fun to play I love the mobility and just how active u have to be swapping attunements constantly keeping buffs up playing it to a high caliber it doesn't feel faceroll at all which i like but at the same time I feel they need some quality of life improvements considering a mistake is your death most of the time.

Overall I love my ele its fun to play but it does feel lacking considering the amount of effort you need to put into it. Hopefully they will buff Ele's a bit so they can be viable without having to play a supportive role.

Also I usualy un 0 0 10 30 30 Water/arcane healing/condition removal is insane it also has high survivability and all the barrel rolling XD.

[JemL]

dude it has been answered one hundred times, elementalist is just...weak overall, thats all, still fun and very useful class.

[Anelyn]

Ok short answer: it gets better, as you enhance your abilities with traits, your gear is shaping up for your desired spec, you unlock more utility skills and elites etc.

About burst... I don't see why peeps consider eles to have no competitive burst compared to other classes. Am playing S/D with staff (for big events). I can take a group of many mobs by precasting churning earth, port in middle of them to finish cast, follow with the knockdown, switch fire, DT, phoenix, ring of fire, arcane wave, switch air, ride lightning away and they die in 3-5 secs from that point. Soloing veterans with adds is np as well, champions are doable but generally is not worth the time to solo those (if they are guarding a skill point, and you are solo, and you have a bit of room for kitting, then by all means).

Stack might. Is a game mechanic, use it

[Alberel]

Anelyn, on 24 September 2012 - 12:53 AM, said:

Ok short answer: it gets better, as you enhance your abilities with traits, your gear is shaping up for your desired spec, you unlock more utility skills and elites etc.

About burst... I don't see why peeps consider eles to have no competitive burst compared to other classes. Am playing S/D with staff (for big events). I can take a group of many mobs by precasting churning earth, port in middle of them to finish cast, follow with the knockdown, switch fire, DT, phoenix, ring of fire, arcane wave, switch air, ride lightning away and they die in 3-5 secs from that point. Soloing veterans with adds is np as well, champions are doable but generally is not worth the time to solo those (if they are guarding a skill point, and you are solo, and you have a bit of room for kitting, then by all means).

Stack might. Is a game mechanic, use it

I use the combo myself, and yes it's effective, but this is basically highlighting that eles need 9 stacks of might to have damage that might even begin to compare with what other professions can dish out at that level... The point is other professions do not need to self buff and self combo to be effective, and if they do so they will outstrip an ele all over again.

[Anelyn]

Alberel, on 24 September 2012 - 01:59 AM, said:

I use the combo myself, and yes it's effective, but this is basically highlighting that eles need 9 stacks of might to have damage that might even begin to compare with what other professions can dish out at that level... The point is other professions do not need to self buff and self combo to be effective, and if they do so they will outstrip an ele all over again.

That's really fine, because you see, other professions can pretty much just do that in their dps spec? While ele can still bring great utility (like condition removal, replenishment, heals, area control, stuns, blinds, push backs, chill, snare etc) and generate combo fields as well as combo finishers. I felt (and was told by my guild mates as well as random peeps I played with) that I was a great asset to dungeon groups because of that. If you switch to support does not mean you don't do damage anymore, you can still have elemental out, bleeds and burns, and do some control / healing etc to get party back in shape then pump full dps again.

Seriously we don't need 100B or hasted PW skills to be effective dpsers. We stack bleeds very fast, we have very good burn, and we can burst nuke really hard as well (not with staff of course). Our survability is great as well, we are only class who can move around for quite a distance when downed, to leave aoe or line of sight bosses to allow our mates to safe ress us, or ress ourselves safely. The glyph which resses team members is pure love in dungeons, you can res 3 peeps attuned to earth for example.

Compared to my thief (played as SB / S/P) I take way more less damage and safely dish more damage as well, targets moving don't nullify my burst, ground targeted abilities don't suffer from blindness, etc.

My immobilizes work on dungeon bosses, my chills work as well, my interrupts work too, I stack vulnerability like no tomorrow, seriously we have the largest amount of skills for any class, just react to situation or plan ahead and you will improve your dungeon runs by miles for you and your party.

Not to mention you can summon a fiery great sword, a lightning hammer, and a frost bow for example for your group, to quickly deal with trash or specific phases of an encounter.

You need to look from a wider angle at the elementalist, and not just try to be the biggest damage dealer of all times - IMHO.

[The_Playwright]

Soylent, on 23 September 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

Mind posting your trait and utility skill selection? Stats you went for on gear?

Sure.  The last two runes would be Major Runes of the Monk (the build doesn't allow for runes less than Superior) in order to get maximum +boon duration.

http://gw2skills.net...JquMeJ8y11AjJBA

This is my 'auramancer' build.  I've been running this ever since I realized how strong facilitating a support role was in WvW, PvE, and any instance when you're not solo (which is pretty much the entire 'end game'.)  Group buffs scale exponentially with party members.  The focus of this build was spreading auras to allies that, aside from the usual effects of stuns/chills/etc upon being hit, give them a long burst of swiftness, fury, and protection.  It would be perpetual, if they fixed the trait so it worked with combo auras, because the build can also give itself fire aura as well, thanks to fire field and magnetic grasp.

It's great for chasing escapees.  You can also keep someone CCed for longer than I've seen with any other class, thanks to Ride the Lightning's brief (and unlisted) root, Updraft's blowout, cone of cold/frozen bursts chill, magnetic grasp's immobilize (which actually lasts longer than 2 seconds due to the animation,) and Earthquakes knockdown.  It relies upon switching attunements constantly in order to keep the added toughness/healing/fury/swiftness/protection bonuses.  When you switch into Earth, you're looking at about ~3000 armor.  Some people say toughness has diminishing returns, but I've found the opposite.  Maybe it's me imagining it, but I find I take a LOT less damage than I used to.  I tried vitality at first, but it didn't scale well with the healing.

I'm also fiddling around with a conjuration build based upon the Lightning Hammer/Fiery Greatsword that relies entirely on attunement buffs, since you can switch attunements without any concern while you have a conjured weapon.  They really need to make our conjures like the engineer's device kits though, with regards to how their switching works (and a bit more traitability.)

Link to the conjure build:  http://gw2skills.net...JquMeJ8y11AjJBA .

I'm still sticking with the same gear, as you're looking at about 80% uptime on boon duration without any food thanks to Arcana + runes.  You don't have the bonuses from the auras, so there will be gaps in uptime, but you have even faster attunement (9.7 seconds or something like that on cooldown,) and each of the bonuses from elemental attunement last 5 seconds (might is 15 seconds,) so you have a near 100% uptime on attunement buffs (protection, swiftness, fury, might and regeneration.)  You'll just be spamming attunement swaps while hammering/swording away.  If they start to get away, you can drop the weapon and use dagger/dagger.  Really, the conjures are just for shits and giggles.  I need to test them more.  The hammer's blind/sheer damage is definitely worth considering, and most of it is on short cooldowns.  I've seen the sword do some nasty stuff as well.  I also like some of the bows abilities.  I've found the most success, however, with using a conjured weapon's cooldowns and then dumping it right away (except for the hammer... it's 1 and 2 are just... pretty nice.  And the sword has really short CDs as well--but it's an Elite.  Still, take a look at the swords damage.  The base numbers are pretty staggering. (5904 burning damage in an AoE over 3 seconds as one of its 5 second cooldowns.)  My only beef with the greatsword is that it has two gap closers.. and then three ranged abilities (including its auto.)  Doesn't make a terrible amount of sense.


I've also been taking a closer look at traits like Piercing Shards, which is an adept water trait that allows your spells to do +20% more damage to vulnerable foes.  The reason why, is because if you have Elemental Attunement, it counts you as being attuned to an element for 5 seconds after switching (meaning you'd do +20% to vulnerable foes for five seconds after switching == huge potential for fire burst to vulnerable foes.)  The reliability is questionable, however, as you're more restricted in the order of your abilities if you want to take advantage of it.

[Cesip]

The_Playwright, on 24 September 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

The reason why, is because if you have Elemental Attunement, it counts you as being attuned to an element for 5 seconds after switching (meaning you'd do +20% to vulnerable foes for five seconds after switching == huge potential for fire burst to vulnerable foes.)  The reliability is questionable, however, as you're more restricted in the order of your abilities if you want to take advantage of it.

Its been tested in the BWEs and didnt work. But give it a try. Maybe its fixed. For now Lingering only effects 5 points skills into the traitline.

[The_Playwright]

Cesip, on 24 September 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

Its been tested in the BWEs and didnt work. But give it a try. Maybe its fixed. For now Lingering only effects 5 points skills into the traitline.

Sorry, I miswrote that.  I was referring to Lingering Elements, not Elemental Attunement.

All the 5 points work with lingering elements, as well as anything else that's based upon you being attuned to it.  As far as the game is concerned, you are still attuned to the element for 5 seconds after switching with the Lingering elements trait.  It even indicates this with a buff icon.

It affects those because it counts you as being attuned to the element.  I've tested it.  This includes the water vulnerability +damage and the fire attuned +damage.

As far as I'm aware, they tested the elemental attunements/the other 'swap' bonuses (like the two seconds of fury on swap) and found them to not work.  When I first played, I thought those were meant to work with it as well, because they were in the same line and the synergy would have made sense.  Those still don't work... But as far as I know, the other attunement bonuses have always worked with lingering elements.

If they didn't before, they definitely do now.

[Alberel]

Anelyn, on 24 September 2012 - 02:54 AM, said:

You need to look from a wider angle at the elementalist, and not just try to be the biggest damage dealer of all times - IMHO.

In groups, sure, but you also need to look at the wider angle of solo play and the other facets of gameplay. Eles fill a role in groups but when they're playing solo they suffer more than any other profession. If their damage does not compare (and utility is far far less useful outside of a group environment) then they are simply weak compared to the others.

[Anelyn]

Ummm... since am playing S/D for solo pve, between 2 blinds (with relative short CDs) knockback, knockdown, bleeds, burns, access to condition removal (1 from switching to water, 2nd from water 5), bleeds and burn, vulnerability, burst aoe damage with combo fields, 2 healing spells in water on top of your healing spell of choice, toughness increase from earth 2... How do you lack viable options in solo play? Only thing which S/D lacks (but can be achieved if you decide to use glyph of elemental power) is a snare, but you don't really need it with teleport and ride lightning as mobility (and stun break).

Compare that with necro. Awful burst, power builds are mediocre, condition is only viable spec, they need the snare from scepter to kite while their bleeds wear opponents down. They have no teleport, no evasive moves, if they are chilled, crippled, immobilized, they have to take it in the face (DS is good, but not vs multiple opponents beating on you, and a heavy hitter will eat through your lifeforce like no tomorrow) they have only 1s fear on staff aoe (which means not much at all), yes they can send conditions back to enemy with dagger 4 or signet of plague but those have hefty CDs, etc.

Am not saying we are perfect or in the right spot, some adjustments are still needed, traits fixed, bugs removed, improvements made, but I don't think the sky is falling either