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How to build a Guardian properly.


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#31 GamerMixZ

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 10:05 PM

Here is what I came with for my Greatsword/Hammer or Staff (opinions?) Build
http://gw2skills.net...ggVFiH2DMmxOeLA

Gear stat wise what should I focus on?  Might/Precision/Vit?
Trying to aim for a Offensive Greatsword Explorer Dungeon build to have some fun with.

#32 TenorMadness

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 11:54 PM

Thanks a bunch for this guide! This gives me tons of ideas for my Guardian. For dungeons, do you find a supportive weapon like the mace or scepter necessary? Or would a hammer work?

#33 ManaObstruction

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:13 AM

Honestly, in my own opinion, only 15 radiance for renewed justice and 5 in virtues are really needed. Everything else, you can change up. Meditations build, consecrations build, etc. Doesn't really matter, as long as you play well.

#34 CrystallineDIVA

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:41 AM

quote: > If you're lacking the above, you're a gimped Guardian.

"renewed justice" only recharges your virtue if you deal the finishing blow, period. In a dungeon those kills are unpredictable and renewed justice might be a bad choice.

Best regards,
DIVA

Edited by CrystallineDIVA, 25 September 2012 - 12:56 AM.


#35 DessieDoo

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:55 AM

I find Renewed Justice a curious one.  Seems to me like it'd be really handy for swarms of enemies, and not so great on bosses, since no one is dying.  Right now, I have Radiance at 10 (for the signet buff, since I use the signet heal), and threw the extra 5 into Virtues to get it to 25 (Power of the Virtuous: Deal extra damage for each boon you have).  The idea being with shouts and virtues fully traited as they are, I've got a more consistent boost to my own damage output.

The trade off here is that your damage output is less situational, but it also has a lower maximum potential (since stacking your entire team with a grip of might stacks can really crank up the hurt).  When I want to buff my allies with might anyway, I just use the staff's #4 ability for 12 stacks of might (and a small heal).

My current build: http://gw2skills.net...BtKQQYPwoMqjuFA

#36 ManaObstruction

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:58 AM

View PostCrystallineDIVA, on 25 September 2012 - 12:41 AM, said:

quote: > If you're lacking the above, you're a gimped Guardian.

"renewed justice" only recharges your virtue if you deal the finishing blow, period. In a dungeon those kills are unpredictable and renewed justice might be a bad choice.

Best regards,
DIVA

Ah you're wrong on one part. RJ renews VoJ as long as you tag the mob, so it's fine in pretty much any kind of setting. (Well at least, I believe it did the last time I tested it)

#37 Jubelas

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 01:08 AM

I got this skeleton, the OP is right, it's a must. If you dont have it...

#38 nistriss

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 01:36 AM

Hey, i'm currently level 46 and I'm not doing any duneons until i level up a bit more. I've been using this: http://gw2skills.net...2Su1SghAHB2C8EA.

Looking at this post and thinking about things a bit more, with the points i have available i'm going to use this: http://gw2skills.net...Ef4ERuA7DEsqQ8A. I'd lead with Judge's Intervention/Binding Blade (depends) - PF - SoW - WW - Switch Wpn (VoJ Spam obvobv). I'm building all Power/Vitality, and basically AoE farming hearts. I don't know where to allocate points from here, before I was just pumping Zeal for the Power/Precision boost.

Considering I won't be doing dungeons, and I'm soloing, is there anything you would suggest I switch skill wise, trait wise, or armor/weapon stat wise? And where should my extra trait points be headed until I can get the full set-up suggested and start playing a more well rounded approach.

Edited by nistriss, 25 September 2012 - 01:43 AM.


#39 jpg1

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 02:06 AM

I find it amusing that helpful posts become really heated and resort to insulting. I would have to agree with the OP here - he isn't being an elitist. I think it's just the style of his writing but people do have the exact woes that he expressed here. I've read countless of posts about people feeling useless/ineffective as Guardians. I even got to talk to a friend of a Guardian in-game. He asked me for advice for his Guardian friend who got dropped a lot. (His basis for my Guardian being effective was watching me pound an SP without so much as a scratch. It's pretty silly. But I did spent a few minutes chatting up with him anyway)

Everyone wants to help somehow. This is Red_Falcon's way. Give him his moment and you can take it or leave it. If you feel offended by some of his expressions, I feel sorry for whoever you are. It's a reality however, and he just happen to painstakingly put it to light.

Edited by jpg1, 25 September 2012 - 02:06 AM.


#40 paradiselight

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 03:36 AM

View Postjpg1, on 25 September 2012 - 02:06 AM, said:

I find it amusing that helpful posts become really heated and resort to insulting. I would have to agree with the OP here - he isn't being an elitist. I think it's just the style of his writing but people do have the exact woes that he expressed here. I've read countless of posts about people feeling useless/ineffective as Guardians. I even got to talk to a friend of a Guardian in-game. He asked me for advice for his Guardian friend who got dropped a lot. (His basis for my Guardian being effective was watching me pound an SP without so much as a scratch. It's pretty silly. But I did spent a few minutes chatting up with him anyway)

Everyone wants to help somehow. This is Red_Falcon's way. Give him his moment and you can take it or leave it. If you feel offended by some of his expressions, I feel sorry for whoever you are. It's a reality however, and he just happen to painstakingly put it to light.
You see, the problem is that though the OP says he isn't being an elitist, his post gives the impression that he is one.

Lots of things could have been worded better without giving off the impression of being one. For instance
Title: How to build a guardian properly -> Recommended Guardian Build
Mandatory -> Recommended
Required -> Recommended
If you're lacking the above, you're a gimped Guardian. -> If you lack any of the above, you might not perform at full potential.

I could go on and on, but the point is the whole post smells of elitism for anyone who doesn't know Red_Falcon's style of post.

With that said, I agree with OP but only to the point that this is a good place to start with if you have no clue at all about guardian traits. There are 1420 different trait builds and most traits haven't been explored sufficiently for one to judge if any of the traits are mandatory. Not to mention most of the players are still clueless about the dungeons and how some traits function exactly (for instance, what's the internal CD of valorous defense?)

Edited by paradiselight, 25 September 2012 - 03:37 AM.


#41 ZCKS

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 04:19 AM

While the 1st minor in virtues can be a game changer I wouldn't consider it manditory for all builds.


Also #3 is very nice for saving your arse but if you play well it also is not needed.

For instance I use http://gw2skills.net...BNo/qKEPsHYE dE

With it I use a high mixture of power, precision, vitality & some healing power.

I do around 3/5 or more of the damage that others do while boosting their damage potential & survivability quite considerably.

#42 theclueless

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 04:40 AM

renew justice only has very limited usage in dungeon and champions, and you dont need to spam in against regular trash mobs in the world, and you dont need the signet mastery reduce if you dont use signet of resolve (pure of voice does much better with shouts to remove conditions), but you do want justice is blind, being able to blind to get you out of a sticky situation is always useful

i run a 0/5/30/30/5 with a berserker helm and glove, and the rest are valkyries, with superior runes of the soldiers, and all of my accessories are emerald set of knight (power/precision/toughness)

http://gw2skills.net...BYPwI8741DKKRGC

#43 NovAtan

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 05:16 AM

View Posttheclueless, on 25 September 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

renew justice only has very limited usage in dungeon and champions, and you dont need to spam in against regular trash mobs in the world, and you dont need the signet mastery reduce if you dont use signet of resolve (pure of voice does much better with shouts to remove conditions), but you do want justice is blind, being able to blind to get you out of a sticky situation is always useful

i run a 0/5/30/30/5 with a berserker helm and glove, and the rest are valkyries, with superior runes of the soldiers, and all of my accessories are emerald set of knight (power/precision/toughness)

http://gw2skills.net...BYPwI8741DKKRGC

You already have a blind on a 10 sec cd. Not sure why you use shield with both sets, you really limit yourself. I recommend going sword focus instead. This gives you another blind so now you have 2. The 5 points JUST for a 30 cd blind, which will reduce your dps for the next 30 seconds is simply not worth it without renewed justice which makes for a spammable aoe blind on large groups. The 5 pts would be better spent in the virtues tree if you insist on using this build IMO.

#44 ZCKS

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 05:37 AM

View Posttheclueless, on 25 September 2012 - 04:40 AM, said:

renew justice only has very limited usage in dungeon and champions, and you dont need to spam in against regular trash mobs in the world, and you dont need the signet mastery reduce if you dont use signet of resolve (pure of voice does much better with shouts to remove conditions), but you do want justice is blind, being able to blind to get you out of a sticky situation is always useful

i run a 0/5/30/30/5 with a berserker helm and glove, and the rest are valkyries, with superior runes of the soldiers, and all of my accessories are emerald set of knight (power/precision/toughness)

http://gw2skills.net...BYPwI8741DKKRGC

Few things I would note about your build.

1: Unless your stacking at least 40% crit empowering might is kind of a waste as a major. (though with your build it could become extremely powerful with altruistic healing & shouts)

2: It's not a gret idea to use a shield for both weapon sets as the CD's will cary over when you swap weapons. (I would suggest dropping one of them for a focus).

3: Stand your ground is very very situational in PVE as not every mob will have control effects. (honestly you could keep it for the additional group condition removal, or you could grab something else your choice).

Other than those things your build is great.

View PostNovAtan, on 25 September 2012 - 05:16 AM, said:

Snip

If your in a group you really should be activating justice every CD where mobs are alive as the benefit it gives the group in terms of damage far outweighs your personal benefit.

#45 Sieran

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 05:37 AM

OP, I've generally agreed with your posts in the past, and I like a lot of the synergies in your build. Very helpful for new guardians.

But there are other ways to go. I'm currently 30/0/10/30/0, and I've found it to be extremely effective in both general PvE. Let me explain some of the synergies and perhaps you can agree about the viability of builds not built on the 0/15/5/10/10 skeleton.

The 0/15/0/0/5 synergy is quite effective. Might, blind and burn that recharge on enemy death? Quite powerful. The problem for dungeons, however, is that many of the more difficult ones involve bosses with large hp pools and strong aoe - so if you have to wait for the full CD on VoJ, that's cutting your party dps significantly.

I avoid this by combining high power with full group retaliation uptime. Retaliation scales based on the power of the one who applies it, so spread across a group the boost is quite significant. You lose the VoJ blind but since you only get it once every thirty seconds anyway in a fight with few adds, the difference is more than accounted for by extra retaliation. Additionally currently the 5 point trait in virtues is bugged (or the tooltip is just inaccurate), as you only get the boosts when activating virtues, not passively.

Here's the build: http://gw2skills.net...3Iuxej7G5NrPGQA

I listed GS/hammer as that's what I run as offensive support spec in dungeons, but I also carry staff and swap between the three situationally. Same with utilities - this is the default, but like you said, consecrations can be useful. I just find sanctuary cooldown to be too significant and WoR too situational (though I do use it when appropriate) to slot in as defaults.

#46 Weekender

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 07:50 AM

View PostCrystallineDIVA, on 25 September 2012 - 12:41 AM, said:

quote: > If you're lacking the above, you're a gimped Guardian.

"renewed justice" only recharges your virtue if you deal the finishing blow, period. In a dungeon those kills are unpredictable and renewed justice might be a bad choice.

Best regards,
DIVA

wrong. it worked that way in beta, but everything has changed in live. i tag large mob packs while in events and switch to boss, within seconds i can easily burn him 3-15 times depending on the number of trash mobs i've tagged earlier - so no, you don't need a finishing blow to activate that talent.

#47 Enyeez

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:33 AM

http://www.guildhead...lc#Mcc9wfVaaMMo <- basic.

thanks for this, please advise what armour you would go for in different situations, and which runes are worth considering.

#48 Littlefeather

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 09:04 AM

@OP, idk what this guide is intended for, bit at a glance it seems like something I want to challenge. So why dont you post a vid of what your guardian is capable of doing in an instance, and I will do the same. Not trolling or hating, Im curious as to what your build can do, because im 100% sure I have the best build for what I do in an instance.

Basically im saying you claim its the best for pve, but what role for pve? My build has only one role in an instance, and its not support or dps...lol

#49 badasschris

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 09:51 AM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 24 September 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:


If you're going to main a scepter and focus all the time I suggest this one http://gw2skills.net...ggG0fVKiX9wKgRA

Have fun.


Cool thanks, ill tear myself away from borderlands 2 and try this out tonight.

#50 jpg1

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 09:53 AM

The point is, this is not a Build Post, it's a guide on how to build a guardian ("properly" is open for discussing, as we are supposed to be doing, not challenging) It's a sort of backbone to help beginners get a quick glance of what are the recommended. I have to agree with one of the comments that instead of saying mandatory, it is politically correct to say recommended.

The only best we should be promoting here is what's best for the would-be guardian players - not who's best on top of everybody else. Like I said earlier, there are expressions that the OP could have avoided but really it's more of a guide, not a dictation of who's best or what role the build is actually going to take. That should be pretty easy to understand, right?

Edited by Ship Soo, 29 April 2013 - 10:32 PM.
instigating


#51 Littlefeather

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 10:06 AM

View Postjpg1, on 25 September 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

The point is, this is not a Build Post, it's a guide on how to build a guardian ("properly" is open for discussing, as we are supposed to be doing, not challenging) It's a sort of backbone to help beginners get a quick glance of what are the recommended. I have to agree with one of the comments that instead of saying mandatory, it is politically correct to say recommended.

The only best we should be promoting here is what's best for the would-be guardian players - not who's best on top of everybody else. Like I said earlier, there are expressions that the OP could have avoided but really it's more of a guide, not a dictation of who's best or what role the build is actually going to take. That should be pretty easy to understand, right?

Like one of the comments earlier said - BEHAVE. Or chill the eff out if you're feeling gangster.

Oh i see the OP has co signers. Ok, well he wants to come off like everyone else is wrong and hes the only one right. I want to provide a little insight to him by comparing videos between his guardians performance and my guardians performance in an instance, displaying other alternative builds work as well.

I have a full instance set and weapons, no not cof or arah. I aquired via using GS, taking, healing through hits, and keeping bosses attention on me, in enough runs to get over one complete set.

Edited by Littlefeather, 25 September 2012 - 10:11 AM.


#52 jpg1

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 10:26 AM

I'm not co-signing with anyone - I see where the OP has to improve like I said. There are terms he could have avoided.

As for you: good that you have a complete build that works for you. That's just my point right there - you have something that works for you while there are others who aren't really solid on their own builds. No matter how offensive to some how the original post was written, once you get over these expressions, it's quite helpful. I'm in agreement with some of the points, and some I'd rather figure out on my own.

The post is rough on the edges. True. But it actually doesn't point fingers who's wrong or not, nor was it a challenge for someone to take up.  

Again, good work that you have something that works for you. If you want to think that your build is the best for whatever instance, well you're welcome to that honor. You worked hard for it, great. Why don't you just share it then, not for the nature of challenge but mutual learning. Like everyone else, post a link. Create your own post with a video of it, like another one did for a Healing Build, which was very helpful.

Again it's not a build... why are we stuck at that? The OP did not post a build. It's a GUIDE. How is a mandatory (recommended) 40 points to certain traits a complete build? I'm pretty sure that some of the traits considered there, you yourself use. If you're in disagreement to some of the suggested traits, point them out and suggest what's better.

On the other hand, if your build is totally different from the points pointed out by the OP, please link it. So we might compare.

Edited by jpg1, 25 September 2012 - 10:33 AM.


#53 Red_Falcon

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 10:35 AM

View PostLittlefeather, on 25 September 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

Oh i see the OP has co signers. Ok, well he wants to come off like everyone else is wrong and hes the only one right. I want to provide a little insight to him by comparing videos between his guardians performance and my guardians performance in an instance, displaying other alternative builds work as well.

I have a full instance set and weapons, no not cof or arah. I aquired via using GS, taking, healing through hits, and keeping bosses attention on me, in enough runs to get over one complete set.

Comparing different players with different teams isn't a valid point; I can run Arah naked and traitless with a great group, that doesn't make traitless/naked Guardians good.
What I'm trying to do here is getting the best traits out of Guardians so that people have higher chance of success and more room for mistakes (both theirs and of their teams).
Things like giving your Wall of Reflection for 15s instead of 10 and more frequently, having your shouts 20% off CD or blocking an hit for free that would otherwise hit you for 10k are objectively tide-turning effects in most cases.

To make an analogy, you can fly from London to Moscow successfully on both a 50 years old half-broken piper or a modern 747, the difference is that when facing specific situations the 747 is saving your life while the piper is going down.
I'm happy you managed to get a piper to Moscow but the majority of people are going to favor a 747 to minimize the possibility of failures.

With that said, nothing prevents you from creating your own thrads with your own strategies.

Edited by Red_Falcon, 25 September 2012 - 10:38 AM.


#54 greenlocus

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:32 AM

This thread has been very helpful, much appreciated!

#55 Foxhard

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:42 AM

Thank you a lot for this guide,i think it will be very helpful for new guardians(me for instance :) ).

#56 Littlefeather

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:04 PM

View Postjpg1, on 25 September 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

I'm not co-signing with anyone - I see where the OP has to improve like I said. There are terms he could have avoided.

As for you: good that you have a complete build that works for you. That's just my point right there - you have something that works for you while there are others who aren't really solid on their own builds. No matter how offensive to some how the original post was written, once you get over these expressions, it's quite helpful. I'm in agreement with some of the points, and some I'd rather figure out on my own.

The post is rough on the edges. True. But it actually doesn't point fingers who's wrong or not, nor was it a challenge for someone to take up.  

Again, good work that you have something that works for you. If you want to think that your build is the best for whatever instance, well you're welcome to that honor. You worked hard for it, great. Why don't you just share it then, not for the nature of challenge but mutual learning. Like everyone else, post a link. Create your own post with a video of it, like another one did for a Healing Build, which was very helpful.

Again it's not a build... why are we stuck at that? The OP did not post a build. It's a GUIDE. How is a mandatory (recommended) 40 points to certain traits a complete build? I'm pretty sure that some of the traits considered there, you yourself use. If you're in disagreement to some of the suggested traits, point them out and suggest what's better.

On the other hand, if your build is totally different from the points pointed out by the OP, please link it. So we might compare.

Yes my build is totally different, i have 30 tough, 20 power, 20 vit. "Make the group happy' well im pretty certain that the pugs i run with on a daily basis are happy the boss is not on them, and im not only keeping myself up, but them aswell when i roll by them after an aoe. I only use GS, unless in wvw which i occasionally switch to scepter and torch.

#57 theclueless

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 02:19 PM

View PostZCKS, on 25 September 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

Few things I would note about your build.

1: Unless your stacking at least 40% crit empowering might is kind of a waste as a major. (though with your build it could become extremely powerful with altruistic healing & shouts)

2: It's not a gret idea to use a shield for both weapon sets as the CD's will cary over when you swap weapons. (I would suggest dropping one of them for a focus).

3: Stand your ground is very very situational in PVE as not every mob will have control effects. (honestly you could keep it for the additional group condition removal, or you could grab something else your choice).

Other than those things your build is great.



If your in a group you really should be activating justice every CD where mobs are alive as the benefit it gives the group in terms of damage far outweighs your personal benefit.

1. 42% crit chance to be exact
2. i swore i had staff on my 2nd weapon slot... i probably clicked wrong...
3. "stand your ground" is a good 24sec cd shout that give you 2 boons + a stun breaker, and potentially remove condition, but it is an expendable slot for other skills; i keep it because i get knocked down and stunned more often than my teammates for some odd reason =/

on a different note... anyone found if you are in a sticky situation, using "Retreat!" and "Hold the line!" (and to extreme "Stand your ground!") a bit contradictory? guardian can be a crappy shout commander =p

Edited by theclueless, 25 September 2012 - 02:24 PM.


#58 CrystallineDIVA

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 02:21 PM

The problem is how you presented this "guide" Falcon. I can well understand being upset with how you tell them to be "gimped" if they chose not to follow these guidelines.

There are definately more ways to play guardian properly, yesterday I witnessed an offensive guardian that was able to keep burning on a 600' radius on pretty much everything inside. Permanently.
(I think he had the grandmaster for area burning from VoJ+every single trait aiming at VoJ) It rather strong to me because he could stack those burning up to a Minute in the course of a 20 second fight.

As I stated many times I will have to agree on your guidelines though as I found them myself being the most viable choices ...
... SO FAR.

DIVA

#59 Aizea

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 02:35 PM

Regarding your suggestion of pure of voice for shout users, how does that interact with Save Yourselves? Does it turn the conditions I take from allies into boons for myself or does it negate them entirely?

#60 PsychD

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 02:59 PM

I've been playing around with a build of my own, and I'm will be testing it the coming days, it's based around the principles Red_falcon has posted in the OP.
I liked the idea of the Guardian being a frontline fighter, using various abilities to boost his comrades - So I've been focusing on a build with Empowered Might, but the only problem I have is the gear choice. So far I'm pretty set on getting some Knight (P/P/T) gear, but I'm a bit afraid my HP will suffer to much as a result of this, which is why I'm coming here for some gear advice. If I go with Knight's Gear, should I focus on vitality for my accesories or something different?

Edited by PsychD, 25 September 2012 - 02:59 PM.





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