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Zerj's PvE/Dungeon DPS Thief Build


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#31 Igrukhe

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 01:28 PM

View PostKorra, on 02 October 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

Berserker's set. LOL

don't know if you answered me, but if it's the case, i didn't talk about the chest but the corset on the top left near jewels in hero window.

(sorry .. bad english)

#32 Zerj

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:54 AM

View PostIgrukhe, on 02 October 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

@Zerg what's is the name/link to db of your "corset", i can found only the story one ??
Thats the crappy power/prec/cond one I took from story. I use the yellow assassin's one from guild armorer now.

View PostKorra, on 02 October 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

Berserker's set. LOL

Imo Valkyrie armor works way better, more balanced while still keeping the damage up.
Valkyrie is less damage.

View PostIgrukhe, on 02 October 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

don't know if you answered me, but if it's the case, i didn't talk about the chest but the corset on the top left near jewels in hero window.

(sorry .. bad english)
The chest is the Arah chest.

#33 Korra

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 06:09 AM

View PostZerj, on 03 October 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:



Valkyrie is less damage.




Never said it was more, but as a thief you will want some defense aka vit, damage is not all that counts.

#34 Zerj

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 06:58 AM

View PostKorra, on 03 October 2012 - 06:09 AM, said:

Never said it was more, but as a thief you will want some defense aka vit, damage is not all that counts.
I have no issues in full berserker.

#35 Balala

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:08 PM

You just need "some defense" if blinds and dodges dont work for you.

Full berserker all the way.

I guess the backpack/cape should be the last thing to aim for. It cost 5g and get very low stats. Its a minimum tweak.

#36 Zerj

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:34 PM

View PostBalala, on 03 October 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

You just need "some defense" if blinds and dodges dont work for you.

Full berserker all the way.

I guess the backpack/cape should be the last thing to aim for. It cost 5g and get very low stats. Its a minimum tweak.
Agreed on blinds/dodges. I bought the backpack since the screenshot. Will update screenie.

#37 Balala

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 06:17 PM

Every armor you can get by dungeon tokens, what about trinkets (Earrings, rings, amulet)?
Crafting?

And when you say "I activate Signet of Malice and Shadows whenever they are off cooldown and my initiative is not full.", you mean Assassin's Signet and Signet of Shadows, right?

Was doing dungeons with a backstab D/D build. Gave a shot with your build and just love it.
The evade on Pistol Whip is a great defense tool.
My problem still spaming PW and dodge doesnt get fired. Dodge should cancel any action :(

Edited by Balala, 03 October 2012 - 06:22 PM.


#38 Zerj

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 05:10 AM

View PostBalala, on 03 October 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Every armor you can get by dungeon tokens, what about trinkets (Earrings, rings, amulet)?
Crafting?

And when you say "I activate Signet of Malice and Shadows whenever they are off cooldown and my initiative is not full.", you mean Assassin's Signet and Signet of Shadows, right?

Was doing dungeons with a backstab D/D build. Gave a shot with your build and just love it.
The evade on Pistol Whip is a great defense tool.
My problem still spaming PW and dodge doesnt get fired. Dodge should cancel any action :(
I've never had trouble with dodging. Do you double tap? I hate that. I use V for dodge. And, no, I meant what I said. I activate Malice and Shadows.

Edited by Zerj, 04 October 2012 - 05:11 AM.


#39 Balala

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 12:34 PM

When you dodge, immediately cancel PW and dodge?! I generally go with double tab, got no problems so far. I even tried V for dodge, and doesnt cancelled my PW. Maybe some kind of lag, dont know.

I just dont understand why lose the Malice passive health with PW spam, is like 500+ hp per attack just for 2 initiative. I save Malice and Agility for that "Holy Sh!t" moments or to burst something down with 10% less hp. Just my two cents.

Im far from the gear you have, yesterday i've just replaced my sword, it was some berserker green for the CoF one. From 3.5-4k each PW ive got to 6k, quite a nice upgrade. Does the pistol increase that much? Or i can just go for the armor now?

Can you please update the build with the Equipment tab? It would be really helpful.

#40 blindmouse

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:36 PM

Hi I'm very interested in trying out your build in dungeons. I've been using a very tanky D/D condition build so far. It's been working great but I'm tired of see many small numbers. Been rather long since I played glass cannon D/D so would like to try a glass cannon but something different. May I ask how do you deal with condition damage though? I see that you only have one utility which cure one condition.

#41 Balala

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:58 PM

Mostly of conditions the Signet of Malice passive deals really good, hp incoming is higher than conditions damage.
And usually, you get one condition at time (poison or burn), i just save the signet for "close to dead" moments.

I guess my downs from conditions is really a low count.

#42 Oronyx

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 05:56 PM

I want a build similar to this, but with more vit/toughness. What pieces of armour would I replace with either Valkyrie/Knight and what are the pros/cons between the 2 stats?

#43 Balala

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:07 PM

There is no pros/cons between them, is more like a slider. You have survivability in one side and damage at the other.
There is no use for a dead thief. You may want to go deeper into damage side until you die often.

Again, theres no need to get vit/toug if you manage to dodge, evade, blind at right time.
I've done couple of runs going full berserker without a single down.

I wont trade some casuals downs/deaths for 30% of my damage.

#44 Oronyx

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:32 PM

so doing something like switching out the gloves/boots with valkyrie in one and knight's in the other won't help me at all?

#45 Balala

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:54 PM

Few days ago ive completely replaced berserker with Knight, Valkyrie, Shaman, and i didnt see a lot of survivability power.

If you alredy has those items, go ahead, it wont be a deal breaker in your damage. As it wont save you.

Although, 90% critical chance is too much, you may get some vit/toug instead precision. But, i'ld suggest you, try to get your defenses from your moves, let your gear give you power.

Some hard areas inside dungeon you may just swap to SB and use all that power you have from your gear.

#46 Oronyx

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:05 PM

i'm not sure if you understand, I want to have a full set of berserker, and wondering if swapping out berserker gloves/boots with knight gloves and valkyrie boots is really worth it?

This is also with full berserker accesories, so I wouldn't exactly be subbing out that much crit chance

Edited by Oronyx, 04 October 2012 - 07:07 PM.


#47 Balala

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:15 PM

What was i trying to say is, if you alredy have the Knight and Valkyrie gloves/boots, keep it, if you dont have, i guess it wouldnt make a difference between live or die.

Neither the impact on damage. Who needs do 16k damage in a single PW when you do 15.4k and get like plus 400hp?

When i went full defense, i was still getting one shooted from some boss, so, whats the point? Keeping alive 90% of fights, i want to do the most damage i can in this window.

#48 blindmouse

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:20 PM

Any tips on using this build? Or a video of a dungeon run? I'm having problems using this build in TA. My condition thief hardly goes down and never gets defeated but trying this I kept going down often and got defeated a few times in the up path. =( I like the damage though.

#49 Balala

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:44 PM

Does the condition thief spam Dead Blossom until empty his initiative and go out of combat?

I go for the melee range, Pistol Wip like no tomorrow, roll on attacks.
Using Black Powder on multiples mobs and simple attack.

Pistol Wip gives a good evade, maybe, you are staying on top of some AoE.

#50 blindmouse

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:42 PM

View PostBalala, on 04 October 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

Does the condition thief spam Dead Blossom until empty his initiative and go out of combat?

I go for the melee range, Pistol Wip like no tomorrow, roll on attacks.
Using Black Powder on multiples mobs and simple attack.

Pistol Wip gives a good evade, maybe, you are staying on top of some AoE.

Yep my condition thief does that. Initiative comes back up really fast though. 30 shadow arts, 20 acrobatics, 20 trickery. So yea you can say I'm used to being tanky. I don't die too that much in like CoE actually, mainly TA to the nightmare hounds and nightmare court knight?

#51 Rachmani

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:56 AM

We're talking explo here, right?

#52 habba

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:20 PM

View PostZerj, on 03 October 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

I have no issues in full berserker.

This is what I and I guess a few others that have been posted are a bit confused by.  My impressions from running the build is that it's an extremely strong build but it seems like signet of malice spamming isn't giving me enough HP to survive.  Right now I'm assuming this is just my bad play but, I would like to understand what you do differently.  For example in CoE versus the last boss when you're having to constantly dodge the ground aoes.  It seems like if I stop to pistol whip it's a guaranteed down situation.  During the fight I tried to time out my pistol whip so the evade would be up when the circle procs for damage but that seemed more like a crap shoot than anything else.  I ended up just going for normal attacks and timing my rolls because I got sick of being downed.

#53 Zerj

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:27 AM

You can't melee every boss. On bosses with a lot of gtAoE, such as the Spider Queen in TA, I use shortbow. I am on hiatus from the game due to school/real life but whenever I come back I can upload a video.

Obviously 94% crit is a little over the top but I don't always run food/potion obviously. You could definitely swap out some berserker for valkyrie but I would not give up crit damage for knight. But honestly the amount of HP gained isn't a huge amount and like Balala said it doesn't make a huge difference.

Also group comp and not pugging helps a lot with surviving. Time warping hard pulls to burn them before things can go bad helps a lot. Also I am almost always with a Guardian which helps with healing and conditions. Number 2 sword attack remove a condition on blink back which can be used.

#54 Balala

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:21 AM

Sometimes, i even take the sword out and go P/P for Unload spam. And i replace the signets to Haste, Roll for Initiative and Signet for Agility. Get Thieves Guild as elite skill.

Use Thieves Guild, Haste, spam Unload, Roll, keep spaming Unload. And keep moving baby.

It will not do the full damage of S/P but will add a lot of surv.


Quote

but it seems like signet of malice spamming isn't giving me enough HP to survive.
Thats why i like to save malice to the last moment and keep getting healed by his passive.

Edited by Balala, 06 October 2012 - 11:22 AM.


#55 Zerj

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 04:23 AM

View PostBalala, on 06 October 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

Sometimes, i even take the sword out and go P/P for Unload spam. And i replace the signets to Haste, Roll for Initiative and Signet for Agility. Get Thieves Guild as elite skill.

Use Thieves Guild, Haste, spam Unload, Roll, keep spaming Unload. And keep moving baby.

It will not do the full damage of S/P but will add a lot of surv.



Thats why i like to save malice to the last moment and keep getting healed by his passive.
I was considering replacing SB with P/P. Is the damage good with P/P? Better than SB?

#56 CepaCepa

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:24 AM

View PostZerj, on 06 October 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

You can't melee every boss. On bosses with a lot of gtAoE, such as the Spider Queen in TA, I use shortbow. I am on hiatus from the game due to school/real life but whenever I come back I can upload a video.

Obviously 94% crit is a little over the top but I don't always run food/potion obviously. You could definitely swap out some berserker for valkyrie but I would not give up crit damage for knight. But honestly the amount of HP gained isn't a huge amount and like Balala said it doesn't make a huge difference.

Also group comp and not pugging helps a lot with surviving. Time warping hard pulls to burn them before things can go bad helps a lot. Also I am almost always with a Guardian which helps with healing and conditions. Number 2 sword attack remove a condition on blink back which can be used.

Hi there, I'm trying to do a comparison between the damage potentials of different professions and thief just happens to be one of the three classes that I do not have myself, hence I'm in your forum trying to pick up some numbers. I do have some numbers for pistol pistol, but as I understand that is not nearly the highest damage spec that thieves have, hence I'm fishing for some numbers here. :)

Could you give me a quick estimate on your sustained damage over 1-2 initiative cycle? (Or something like 20 seconds) If lots of condition damage are involved, could you just tell me how many stacks of bleed on average do you stack on a mob (and other conditions)? Again I'm doing a very rough estimate, just trying to see where the numbers are, but even that is difficult to obtain. I CAN make a thief myself and head to The Mist to test things out, but not having played one I would not know how to maximize the damage of the profession and would not do it justice. And I AM comparing glass cannon specs (dungeon-viable glass cannons, that is) across the professions so your setup seems to be idea.

Thanks in advance!

#57 Zerj

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:27 AM

Over 20 seconds ,assuming its just stand and burn, I would drop 9 pistol whips so about 135k damage.

Edited by Zerj, 07 October 2012 - 09:52 AM.


#58 CepaCepa

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:23 AM

View PostZerj, on 07 October 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

Over 20 seconds ,assuming its just stand and burn, I would drop 9 pistol whips so about 135k damage.

Thanks for the fast reply! And this damage can be repeated indefinitely right?

If it is, then people haven't been kidding about thief damage. :) Given (as it turns out) the public's misconception of ranger/warrior damage I was suspecting something like that for thief too, but a 6-7K dps is no joke. Other than MAYBE a full glass cannon mesmer on a good day, with this number thieves would have no competition in dungeons as top damage dealer.

Thanks for your help!

#59 Balala

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 01:25 PM

View PostZerj, on 07 October 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

I was considering replacing SB with P/P. Is the damage good with P/P? Better than SB?

For single target, yes, it yes. It is wonderful to use Haste and cast 3 Unload in 4 seconds.
And some boss fights, where everyone keeps running is just too hard to get Cluster Bomb hit.

#60 Tenofas

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 01:33 PM

I use a very similar build, actually it's 30/30/0/0/10, but IMHO you are wasting too much attributes points in Critical Chance %.
You have 89% in your H windows.  I think that 45-55% is more than enough to have almost every hit crit.  Probably it's just a matter of taste and style, but I rather have 13k+ health.
Posted Image

It works great in Dungeons, but I still have to test it in PvP.




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